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/lit/ - Literature

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3131257 No.3131257[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

>/lit/ pleb
>try to educate myself
>pick up crime and punishment
>blown away
>pick up Brothers Karamazov
>even more blown away
>Dostoevsky is a god

My life has been changed

>> No.3131264

nigger

>> No.3131266

>>3131257
Dostoyevsky has that effect on people.

>> No.3131299

>"LORD, FORGIVE ME, FORGIVE MY WRETCHEDNESS, OH LORD, OH OH, ALL MIGHTY FORGIVE ME, GOD, PRAISE JESUS!"

▬ FYODOR DOSTOYEVSKY.

>> No.3131308

>>3131264
reported :)

>> No.3131394

dostoyevsky and joyce and often names that pseudo intellectuals use to try to make themselves appear more intelligent, so dont fall into that trap op. That being said joyce>dostoyevsky.

>> No.3131408

Tell us more.

>> No.3131446

>>3131394

What defines a pseudo intellectual? How do I know if I am a pseudo intellectual. Where should I start with Joyce? Is Dubliners a good starting place?

>> No.3131453

I know that feel OP, Dosty is a life changer.

>> No.3131460
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3131460

>>3131257

Well done OP! It's always nice to hear about "lit plebs", as you say, finding an author they really enjoy. Now, read Tolstoy, and find that there was someone, if only one person, who wrote even better than ol' Fyodor.

>> No.3131466

Good, now read more things.

>> No.3131471

I was a /lit/ pleb just under a year ago.
I took an English class and now I'm reading Kafka and the likes and thoroughly enjoying it.

>> No.3131517

So many people here cite Dostoevsky and Kafka as among their favorites, but I doubt many read them in their original.

I don't see how you can say how good an author is if you've only read another person imitate them (ie, translation).

>> No.3131528

does anyone know where i can download dostoevsky e books?
i just bought a ki-ki-ki-ki-kindle.

>> No.3131532

Rand is better.

>> No.3131537

>>3131517
If someone can't be translated well they were never a good author in the first place. Stories are universal bro

>> No.3131541

>>3131517
You are so cool for reading them in their original form, wanna hang out br0?

>> No.3131542

>>3131528
C&P and the idiot are both on pirate bay. But just download a giant 10,000 ebook collection and spend a day weeding through it.

>> No.3131574

>>3131537
And literature is more than just stories. Beautiful prose may suffer from the translation process.

>> No.3131579

>>3131574

Is prose really that important for Dostoevsky?

>> No.3131587

>>3131537
This is wrong.
Each language has its own history, its own aroma. Every literary work is destined to be received by a specific audience. Whenever a translation occurs, the essence of the work is stripped off.
If a Russian author writes a book in Russian about the Russian people, that book has a social, historical place. If a French person translates it to French, the books loses the essence, because it becomes only a French work that happens in Russia.

Translations are useful, don't get me wrong. You just don't get to absorb it in full.

>> No.3131591

>>3131574
That's the job of the translator to not fuck up because if the author is good enough his beautiful prose will be beautiful in any language

>> No.3131601

>>3131394
Dostoevsky and Joyce are also both legitimately great writers.

>>3131446
Dubliners is probably the ideal place to start, then Portrait of the Artist, then Ulysses.

>> No.3131605

>>3131587
You're assuming that anything is lost because one is not part of the target audience. Teen-lit will have the same literary value even if you're not a teen

>> No.3131607

I had a similar experience with Doctor Zhivago by Boris Pasternak recently; those Russians sure know how to write a damn good book.

>> No.3131683

>>3131605
Not the target audience but the culture and context the author is engulfed in. You're not missing everything, but your interpretation will definitely be different. On top of that, it's an interpretation of a translation of the prose, another level detached from the author that is apparently your favorite.

>> No.3131834

>>3131683
That's inadmissible because people will have different interpretations of a text even when engulfed in the culture and context of the author. The burden of proof is upon you to prove that all translations are inadequate and that all translators lose something significant in the translation. Like I said before approximations of the phrases will have the same significance if translated well enough.

>> No.3131847

>>3131834
Also one can understand a culture without knowing their language. It helps to know their language but it isn't by any means necessary

>> No.3131876

>>3131847

>thinks language leads to understanding

>> No.3131894
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3131894

>>3131876
You should read my post again

>> No.3131922

some authors works do change quite a lot when translated, Juan Rulfo as an example uses very folkloric mexican words and expressions, as well as some names and places

>> No.3131929

I am reading The Idiot and my mind stays not blown away. Am i missing the underlying philosophical 'thing' thats going on in the book because I am such a pleb?
the book so far is
>lots of Russian names
>me wondering when the fuck he is gonna get to the point

>> No.3131947

>>3131929

From what I hear the Idiot is not the best place to start. I would recommend Crime and Punishment

>> No.3131952
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3131952

>>3131876
Seems like lack of language leads to misunderstanding.

>> No.3131954

>>3131929
if you're the type to get feels from your reading prepare to have your anus drained by the end

>> No.3131957

>>3131952

That doesn't mean the opposite is true.

>> No.3131967

>>3131922
The significance of that comes from knowing the folklore not the spanish, it should be able to be translated, probably a failing on the translator's part. Also names and places shouldn't be translated anyway and if they have a double meaning there should be a note explaining it so none of the subtlety is lost.

>> No.3131996

>>3131954

Now I really want to read the Idiot

>> No.3132033

>>3131996
yea man, shit is cash.

C&P is a superior book, somehow I haven't read TBK but The Idiot is definitely end-heavy with the goodness as I recall.

>> No.3132042

>>3131446

That you're questioning whether you are is a good first step to not being one.

>> No.3132047

>>3131394
Have any 'deeper' recommendations then?

>> No.3132050

>>3132047

The greatest writers on Earth that I have read are Kafka, Walser, Dos Passos, Pynchon, Montaigne and Sherwood Anderson

>> No.3132051

>>3132050
Thanks mate, I have been delving into Existentialism for the past 8 mouths and this is quite good, thanks.

>> No.3132391

who is the ukrainian writer who write a bunch of short stories. one of which had to do with bickering farmers. they all had the same name, like ivan petrovich or somethign

>> No.3132403

>>3131446
>What defines a pseudo intellectual?
I think it's when you act like or claim to be an intellectual, without having the requisite educational chops and enormous beard. Maybe.

>> No.3132404

>>3132391
Gogol?

>> No.3132412

>>3131587
>Whenever a translation occurs, the essence of the work is stripped off
Sure sounds metaphysical and vague to me. The book's changed, no doubt, but why say it's lost its 'essence'? What does that even mean? Why does each book only have one of these 'essences'.
>If a Russian author writes a book in Russian about the Russian people, that book has a social, historical place
And if a Russian sits in Putin's Russian Federation and reads a book written over a century ago in the land of the Tsars, much of that 'social, historical place' will be very different.

>> No.3132415

>>3132404
>implying you can just Gogol something as vague as 'bickering farmers with the same name' and get the right answer

>> No.3132503
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3132503

>>3132415

>> No.3132513
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3132513

>>3132415
Best post on the board today.

>> No.3132519
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3132519

>>3132415

>> No.3132563

>>3131587
>Whenever a translation occurs, the essence of the work is stripped off.
Then it's just a bad translation. This is just stupid elitism, I've read some works in their native language and translated to my native language (Finnish), it's not that much of a different experience.

>> No.3132565

>>3132563
Not everyone reads just for the plot.

>> No.3132570

Is there a good way to progress into his work? Haven't read any of his stuff but I've seen threads being worried about translations, is this a big issue?

>> No.3132618

>This was Count Mykiniokov, his daughter Karine Amerine Bilielovitch married to the general Vladimir Kiyokov Abrahamovich blabla

Yeah truly a god. Those names are so poignant.

>> No.3132620

>>3132565
you read for your e-penis?

>> No.3132624

>>3132618
yeah i agree
he shouldve used american names instead

george, frank, john, you get me

fuckin russians

>> No.3132895

>>3132565
this prose-plot dichotomy that you apparently subscribe to is fucking retarded. the most important components of a book are its themes and message. well, certainly in the case of dostoevsky, anyway.

>> No.3132921
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3132921

>>3131394
>tfw actually enjoy these authors, would love to talk about them, but can't because you know you'll come across as a pseud

>> No.3132931

>>3132921
don't listen to that dickhead, there's nothing pseudo about dostoevsky or joyce.

>> No.3132983

>>3132931
And it's funny because then he proceeds to name Kafka, which is always named by pretentious people (I'm not saying that he isn't good).

>> No.3132991

>>3132618
>>3132618
zossimov/zotomoyav or whatever is by far the most confusing name pair

that being said it took me 40 pages to differentiate between razkolnikov and razmuhikin