/lit/ - Literature

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Anonymous Sun Dec 16 22:34:15 2012 No.3252528 [DELETED]

Not really literature related, but I broke out my Qur'an the other day. Reason I have one, aside from novelty, is because years ago, shortly before dropping the idea of religion entirely, I thought about converting to Islam. Now, having been an atheist/nihilist for at least 5 years, the constant pessimism and trying to cope with "the absurd" is really damaging my enjoyment of life. After hearing an interesting way of describing conversion on the TV show, "homeland" as it being about "finding peace" as oppose to "having true faith in something", I thought of the idea of possibly seeing if I adapted the religious lifestyle of a particular religion, though actually non-religeous, could peace still be found through it's rituals?

If uninterested in discussion: good books about converting / being a caucasian american muslim in a post 9-11 America?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 22:38:15 2012 No.3252546

>>3252528
If you want culture without the commitment to 'real belief' then you should just go back to your original religion (I assume Christianity). You don't need to convert, just stop being a nihilist and fit yourself into your culture on your own terms.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 22:39:15 2012 No.3252550 >Not really literature related >I broke > I have > I thought > having been an atheist/nihilist > my enjoyment > I thought Say, what's this thread about? Take it to /soc/

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 22:51:15 2012 No.3252573 File: 439 KB, 1296x972, 1355715265466.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3252528

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 22:54:15 2012 No.3252581 >>3252546 bro I could kiss you on the lips. Sufism, is like, heaps interesting though. If ya gonna be a muslin be a Sufi muslin.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 23:04:15 2012 No.3252603 >>3252528 every time i scroll real quick past that picture, it looks like some horrible growth or something

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 23:11:15 2012 No.3252610 >>3252528 I would say, become a buddhist. Doesn't require you believe in the Brahman.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 23:12:15 2012 No.3252615 >>3252581 Sufism is slowly becoming its own religion again. The Sufis basically infiltrated Islam to avoid persecution for their mystical/magical/esoteric practices.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 23:14:15 2012 No.3252625 >>3252610 I thought about buddhism, also. But Buddhism's stance on "excessive good" (love, desire, friendship ect.) being as damaging as excessive bad (Hate, jealousy, lust) just makes me feel guilty.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 23:20:16 2012 No.3252640

>>3252615
Also if you want to look into Sufism with less of the Islamic mixing, look at Universal Sufism.

Though, some say that Sufism is the true heart of Islam, and the real Islam, and that Muhammad was nothing like the in the Qu'ran.

Also, OP, you can find peace in the rituals of other religions, morning prayer etc, gives you structure and a bit of hope regardless of whether you're an atheist or not.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 23:20:16 2012 No.3252641 OP, look into Sikhi. I may eventually become a Sikh myself.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 23:21:16 2012 No.3252644 You know that atheism doesn't automatically mean nihilism, right OP? Read The Rebel.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 23:23:15 2012 No.3252651

>>3252625
The reason why Buddhist say that excessive good is bad, is because most people can't control their feelings and actions, so they must omit most of it. If you can control your feelings, your love, desire, etc. its fine, as long as YOU do not allow these to control you and allow your feelings to change who you are.

Self mastery is all Buddhism is really about.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 23:24:15 2012 No.3252658 >>3252651 Cont. You should train yourself to be able to stop feeling love, stop feeling happiness, stop feeling hate, etc. on command. And to be able to bring up good emotions on command.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 23:24:15 2012 No.3252659 >Now, having been an atheist/nihilist for at least 5 years, the constant pessimism and trying to cope with "the absurd" is really damaging my enjoyment of life Thank you. I'm so glad at least one of you grew the fuck up.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 16 23:27:15 2012 No.3252664 >>3252660 Sikhi. It's like Buddhism with God and a knife.

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 23:29:15 2012 No.3252672

>>3252644

Yes, I do. I meant to infer that I could be considered both equally.

>>3252651

This is true, but I feel much better than I feel that I am "in good hands" rather than "the master of my own domain". It honestly comes down to Theist religions are simply easier (mentally) to adapt to then something like Buddhism, that requires a strong mind and iron will

>>3252659

Wut?

Anonymous Sun Dec 16 23:31:15 2012 No.3252680

>>3252672
Look into Sikhi, as has been said.

Also, look into Pure Land Buddhism. It's been criticized by western Buddhists as being too reminiscent of Christianity because it involves honoring one being your whole life so that when you die you'll be reincarnated into the Pure Land, which is a place that's considered perfect for obtaining enlightenment quickly.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 01:54:15 2012 No.3252783 Read The Island by Huxley. Changed my life forever.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 02:06:15 2012 No.3252823 Why Islam OP of all the various religions? Why not Taoism?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 02:08:15 2012 No.3252833 Books about being an Afro-Hispanic American Muslims in post-9/11 America?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 02:21:15 2012 No.3252879 File: 275 KB, 1024x768, theisland.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3252783 just watch the movie OP it was nominated for a Teen Choice Award

Anonymous Mon Dec 17 03:34:15 2012 No.3252983

I found that when I converted to Christianity, I was able to "dive into" more painful, dark, and scary lines of thought, emotional places, philosophical considerations, poetic explorations, etc., whereas before I was reluctant to think about those things. I view faith as less of an anchor, keeping me in one place, and more of a beacon, allowing me to always keep sight of it and guiding me. I say absolutely go for it, Islam is an incredible religion.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 03:47:15 2012 No.3252996 >>3252528 So you realized there is no God and the absurdity of life so you voluntarily choose to beleive in a random god to feel better about it? What kind of pathetic human being are you?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 10:20:15 2012 No.3253477 >>3252823 Not OP, but "philosophical Taoism" isn't really a thing in the countries where Taoism is a major religion, and religious Taoism requires a lot of complicated and specific spiritual beliefs.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 10:21:15 2012 No.3253478 >>3252996 >Kierkegaard: Pathetic human being

Anonymous Mon Dec 17 10:37:15 2012 No.3253507

>>3252528
>good books about converting / being a caucasian american muslim in a post 9-11 America?

A number of notable Islamic scholars/shiekhs are Western converts and tend to be pretty intelligent and well educated guys. Lots of them have written accounts of their conversions that you may find interesting. Some of them have discussed 9/11 as well. Here are some names:

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamza_Yusuf

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuh_Ha_Mim_Keller

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Winter

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nooruddeen_Durkee

Most of the major figures of the perennialist school were also Western converts to Islam:

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9_Gu%C3%A9non

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frithjof_Schuon

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Lings

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_le_Gai_Eaton

It's worth noting that all of these people are Sunnis who are affiliated with (or heads of) Sufi orders.

Anonymous Mon Dec 17 10:44:15 2012 No.3253516

>>3252528
Western converts to Islam incite irrational hate in me to the point of being willing to lynch them if there authorities would ever dissemble. It feels like one of the deepest forms of betrayal.

I realise this is quite nonsensical, but it is how I feel and I'm far from being the only one. If you convert to Islam, expect people to think of you as having chosen "the other side".

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 10:46:15 2012 No.3253519 >>3253516 You should work on that. Not all converts to Islam want to move to Islamic countries or impose Shariah law or anything.

Anonymous Mon Dec 17 10:46:15 2012 No.3253521

>>3252615
>The Sufis basically infiltrated Islam to avoid persecution for their mystical/magical/esoteric practices.

This isn't correct at all. "Sufism" and Sufi orders weren't formalized until the high middle ages; the major Sufis in early Islamic history who elaborated the concepts which would become Sufi doctrine (Al-Hasan al-Basri, Al-Junayd, Dhu'l-Nun, etc.) all stressed the importance of fulfilling one's basic duties as a Muslim before mysticism was permissible or even possible.

>>3252640
>Universal Sufism.

Just another feel-good new age movement hiding behind the terminology of a legitimate tradition.

Anonymous Mon Dec 17 10:48:15 2012 No.3253524

I'm not OP, but I have a somewhat related question.

Does anyone know of any religions similar to Sikhi in theology (that is, monotheistic, believes in reincarnation and enlightenment) but without the requirements of not shaving and of wearing a turban?

I live in fundie-land and would likely get the shit kicked out of me if I dressed like a Sikh, but I find the religion to be the only one that really clicks with me and feels to me like what religion "should" be.

Anonymous Mon Dec 17 10:54:15 2012 No.3253531

Something germane to this discussion:

"Besides the two Christian traditional forms—their differences need not be stressed in the present instance—which between them cover the European world together with its American and other prolongations, there are also certain Eastern traditions, including the Islamic, which come within the bounds of practicability for Occidentals, at least in exceptional cases; this is especially true of the last-named, which both by reason of a certain kinship with the Christian form and still more by reason of its own structure is particularly fitted to meet the needs of men in the latter days of the cycle, a fact which is not generally recognised in the West, where ignorance on the subject of Islam and consequent prejudice is still rather general. Howbeit, it is in the direction of one or two of the Oriental traditions that those souls who, for any reason, find themselves out of tune with their dechristianised environment usually turn. Whoever does so ought not, however, to underrate the practical difficulties of an Oriental attachment on the part of one who intends to continue living a life which, in all other ways, will conform to the Occidental pattern. Whereas this is a very real drawback, it is not an altogether insurmountable one, though it does mean that rather exceptional qualities are required to overcome it, chief of which is a markedly contemplative turn of mind." - Marco Pallis

Anonymous Mon Dec 17 10:54:15 2012 No.3253532

>>3253519
I'm trying. Still, I find Arabic culture to be immensely unaesthetic (besides some nice architecture). I dislike the sound of the language, their form of chanting, the eyecontact conventions, the clothes, the music, the beliefs, the cuisine, the hairstyling conventions, even the physical look of Arabs (those lazy eyes, the noses, the hue of their skin, et cetera). So someone willingly stepping into that world or even being able to convert to Islam in spite of the cultural attachments is mostly incompatible with me as a person.

I realise this doesn't sound very reasonable, but taste never is. Some people dislike broccoli, I dislike almost anything Arabic. And Islam is decidedly Arabic.

Anonymous Mon Dec 17 10:56:15 2012 No.3253535

>>3253524
>Does anyone know of any religions similar to Sikhi in theology (that is, monotheistic, believes in reincarnation and enlightenment) but without the requirements of not shaving and of wearing a turban?
There's probably some form of Hinduism that is like that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 11:02:15 2012 No.3253541 >>3253524 You do know that one of the major points of any religion is not to be ashamed of or to actively try to hide your religion, correct?

Anonymous Mon Dec 17 11:05:15 2012 No.3253546

>>3253535
>There's probably some form of Hinduism that is like that.

Caste conventions basically mean that it's impossible for someone born outside of Hinduism to be initiated into a traditional (i.e. legitimate) Hindu path to enlightenment. It's still worth studying because Vedanta in particular contains some very clear and useful expositions of universal metaphysical doctrines.

What people seem to be forgetting, or else not realizing in the first place, is that each legitimate religious tradition contains the doctrines of the others explicity or implicitly. They are means to an end, formal distinctions collapse at the highest level and preoccupation with form is an enormous hindrance to any seeker's realization.

Anonymous Mon Dec 17 11:05:15 2012 No.3253547

>>3253541
I do. But I also know that I don't want to literally be beaten over my religion, especially when I'm newly converted and have no local community of that religion to whom I can turn for any kind of support.

It's actually -more- of a major part of Sikhi than most religions, hence the requirements for what you wear. But I don't have any real means by which to protect myself and I've heard of hate crimes against Muslims in the area. Given that Sikh temple shooting, I can only assume that a Sikh would be confused for a Muslim and likewise targeted.

I guess that's another reason I shouldn't become a Sikh. I'm too much of a coward.

Anonymous Mon Dec 17 11:07:15 2012 No.3253551

>>3252528

>having been an atheist/nihilist for at least 5 years, the constant pessimism...

Well, atheism is pretty much attitude neutral, since it's just about whether there are supernatural forces or not, but if I were a pessimist by nature, I think I might avoid nihilism. It seems better suited to an optimistic temperment. One where you'd concentrate more on the "eat drink and be merry" side of the equation. A pessimistic nihilist would be about as depressing as an optimistic one is cheering.

still, why would you think religion would help? and also how would you get from atheism to a deity based religion without some sort of revelation or epiphany? Just asking...

Anonymous Mon Dec 17 11:10:15 2012 No.3253554

>>3253532
>I'm trying. Still, I find Arabic culture to be immensely unaesthetic (besides some nice architecture). I dislike the sound of the language, their form of chanting, the eyecontact conventions, the clothes, the music, the beliefs, the cuisine, the hairstyling conventions, even the physical look of Arabs (those lazy eyes, the noses, the hue of their skin, et cetera).

lelelelel m8. arab shag your sis or somefin?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 11:22:15 2012 No.3253577 >>3253554 >anon trying to improve >shitty trolls in response Stop that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 11:23:15 2012 No.3253582 >>3253532 You're just racist.

Anonymous Mon Dec 17 11:34:15 2012 No.3253605

>>3252783
I couldn't get through it. Took me months at attacking the thing. Maybe I'll just have to lock myself in a room for a weekend and read it front to back. There is just SO much dialogue and backstory... But I do like Pala and Will so I'll have to have a go at it soon.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 11:50:15 2012 No.3253653 Have you considered Daoism, op?

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 11:55:15 2012 No.3253676 >>3253653 >Implying there are living, legitimate Taoist masters who take on (Western) students Reading a Tao Te Ching translation isn't Taoism brom8

Anonymous Mon Dec 17 12:10:15 2012 No.3253713

>>3253551

This is a valid point, if there's no real motivation to convert then what's the point? I think the point it I've tried out different religious rituals (buddhist meditation, Muslim Prayer) and I feel so relaxed and like I'm doing something that matters in my pathetic, pointless life. I use to pray the rosary a lot when I was a kid (I was a god fearing Roman Catholic until probably the age of 14 or 15. I resorted to a devout lifestyle, not because of faith, but fear. Despite the fact that I felt much better about life in general for about a year or two after I dropped it... it didn't last long. Then came the depression. Praying again, though unfaithfully, brings me back the comfort and solace of my days of faith. And in the end... that's what I want. Comfort, solace... and peace.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 12:17:15 2012 No.3253731 >>3253516 My father (captain america) found my Qur'an once. It was ugly.

Anonymous Mon Dec 17 12:19:16 2012 No.3253739

>>3253713

That's it: I'm writing a book called "Be Your Own Damn Messiah" explaining how just going out and doing things to help yourself, help others and help society is the new monasticism. I'm not even going to reccomend celibacy or self denial. I'm going to base my religion on all the good things ritual and contemplation and social service do for people and encourage everybody to just do that stuff.

All my life I've helped people. More than two thirds of my pay goes to help other people who don't do a thing for me and often don't even know I'm doing anything for them.

I think there's no reason more people can't get the benefits of this sort of thing.

Spending all day sorting food into boxes at a food bank or coordinating donations for haiti and africa is as fulfilling as praying or meditating i bet. And it's fun too. Though there's a pretty good chance you'll be the only one there not doing their community service.

Anonymous Mon Dec 17 12:22:15 2012 No.3253748

>>3253713
Couldn't you rekindle your faith once you can rationalise believing in God in an intellectually sound manner? It feels like you want to be a believer but can't allow yourself. I would recommend you to start reading apologetic literature to make you more comfortable with being a believer.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 12:24:15 2012 No.3253749 >>3253739 I'm not vain enough to get pleasure out of helping others for its own sake.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 12:35:15 2012 No.3253784 >>3253749 You make vanity into a virtue. I always thought Altruism was Egotism turned outward.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 12:39:15 2012 No.3253797 >>3253749 I don't see the connection.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 12:55:15 2012 No.3253841 OP, you don't need religion, just a new hobby/job/objective in life.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 13:01:15 2012 No.3253845 >>3253784 Yes, but realising that I can't enjoy patting my own back because I give the homeless cookies with no ulterior motive, since I realise that being aware of my own goodness is an ulterior motive.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 13:10:15 2012 No.3253862 >>3253845 Seek to become the kind of person for whom giving to the homeless is second nature.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 13:16:16 2012 No.3253870 I'm really interested in Muʿtazilah thought but I don't know much about it. Could anyone recommend some reading?

Anonymous Mon Dec 17 13:18:16 2012 No.3253875

>>3253845
>>3253862

It's really not like that.

You have to remember that any act of giving, altruistically at least, must ultimately harm the giver. You're sacrificing your own resources to benefit other individuals and society as a whole.

You choose to do good even though it hurts you, in the same way Superman does. You have the power to be selfish and you negate the urge, doing something good instead. It's sort of selfish in itself, but, like in Atlas Shrugged, it's good because you choose it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 13:24:16 2012 No.3253893 Just make up your own religion and start a cult.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 13:24:16 2012 No.3253894 Become a christian. Read the new testament, especially John Try to live like Jesus

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 13:42:16 2012 No.3253929 >>3253870 There's very little in English, maybe some articles in academic journals. Al-Ash'ari gave them a sound thrashing and pretty much relegated them to footnote status after the 10th century or so.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 13:56:16 2012 No.3253968 >>3253713 If you want a sense of purpose, you should just become a Communist or something.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 14:25:16 2012 No.3254045 >>3253968 That's like saying, "If you're bored... why don't you do some chores?".

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 22:50:17 2012 No.3255479 OP, first. >>3253521 This guy is right. Second, the Road to Mecca by Muhammad Asad (a convert) will interest you

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 22:52:17 2012 No.3255487 Disregarding the point of your thread entirely, that is a beautiful cover.

>>	Anonymous Mon Dec 17 22:54:17 2012 No.3255495 >>3253516 Christ, grow up.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:09:18 2012 No.3256537

I'm a convert, borderline atheist my entire life. Islam is absolutely perfect and beautiful, but it not something you comprehend by just reading a wikipedia page. Its the best decision I have ever made in my life, read up on Ghazali OP and look up the deen show on youtube. Also read the quran obviously. Also never hesitate to question your faith, people who look for the truth always find it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:11:18 2012 No.3256540 Become a Sufi. When Turkey has its inevitable Sufi Revolution you can move there and fuck boys all day. >Dat feel when Turkey becomes the Mecca for Pashtuns >Dem beautiful blue eyes

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:12:18 2012 No.3256544 >>3256537 Are you a Westener? Was your family deeply disappointed?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:18:18 2012 No.3256556 >>3252528 You read rene guenon, or martin lings? They both converted to islam. Putting aside their perennialism... And charles le gai eaton, with his islam and the destiny of man.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:18:18 2012 No.3256557

I don't think I would convert. The shame would be too great and I'm not so keen on the whole 'God' thing. Sufism sounds interesting, but we'll have to wait and see.

Sunnis really hate Sufism, don't they? I was looking up some interpretations of it and Islamic forums seemed to be filled with 'Don't let your boy become a Sufi, they're sodomites!' and 'Careful, they'll corrupt you.'

Seems like people aren't down with the fun.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:23:18 2012 No.3256570

>>3256544
Canadian, family was against it at first because they thought I'll start wearing turbans and blow myself up. Once they got past that stage and saw how it actually changed me, Islam heavily urges to stay constantly connected with your family and to always aid your parents and treat them with utter most respect and thankfulness no matter how bad they treat you, they were more than acceptable to it. Now they respect my practices and are avid defenders of the polluted by media image of islam. I know that my mother is reading more and more about islam and she is, I hope, in the first phases of converting.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:24:18 2012 No.3256576

>>3252615
Orientalist nonsense. Sufis are probably the true representatives of traditional islam in the modern world.

The taliban were sufis by the way. The vast majority were iniates of traditional sufi orders. There is a misconception that sufism is a quietist apolitical movement. Far from it, there were sufi orders participating in the jihad against the russians, and in africa. Google uthman dan fodio.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:25:18 2012 No.3256583 >>3256557 sunnis don't hate suffism, they just encourage prioritizing faith articles.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:27:18 2012 No.3256587 >>3256583 I dunno. I think the modern Sunni/Wahabi/Salafi movement is very anti-Sufi. They see anything as idolatrous - they demolished Muhammad's house and flattened Mecca's hills.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:28:18 2012 No.3256589

>>3256557
Sufis are sunnis.

However thse days with the spread of saudi propaganda, you find wahabi ideas and ignorqnce everywhere being presented as 'the true islam'. Sufis on the other hand are representatives of orthodoxy. They follow the 4 sunnis schools of law and the 2 of theology, which the wahabis reject, claiming they are going back to the original islam. Like the protestants, theyre the real heretics.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:30:18 2012 No.3256591
File: 32 KB, 500x256, 72308_10152334801630304_1834893779_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

This was up in my hometown, read the quran in a week. I knew it was special but this is no book written by man, I'm contemplating converting but first I must fully read all about islam. Something in me changed after reading that book man, something is just not the same.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:31:18 2012 No.3256595 >>3256589 Interesting comparison. That's not the way it's portrayed in the media at all. >Oh my God Islam is becoming more radical, going back to slaughtering Christians and Jews Oh God think of the children.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:33:18 2012 No.3256599 If I become a Sufi, I don't need to wear robes do I? It just reminds me of that BBC documentary 'My Brother the Islamist'. I really don't want that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:33:18 2012 No.3256600 What does islam say about death? like what happens the moment you die?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:34:18 2012 No.3256601 >>3256570 Sounds like everything went better than expected.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:36:18 2012 No.3256606

>>3256587
they're not entirely wrong. They just miss the fact that to destroy or forbid something because it may be an idol is to worship the concept of idolatry itself, and to make it an idol. All religion is idolatry in the same way that all faith is heresy. Human perception and interpretation is too variable for absolute truth. When the Wahabis start forbidding the reading of the Koran and burning copies of it I'll believe they're sincere about idolatry. Till then they're just hypocrites.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:36:18 2012 No.3256608 >>3256599 no you don't, you need the intrinsic drive though.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:38:18 2012 No.3256611 >>3256608 So you could really get away without being circumcised? I don't know. I just don't think the physical attachment is something one should be looking for in religion.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:40:18 2012 No.3256618

>>3256595
I know how it can be seen that way since wahabis advocate terrorism and also claim theyre following the original islam, ie fundamentalism. But in reality theyre the equivalent of american evangelicals who consider catholics to be pagan devil worshippers. Wahabis also accuse mainstream muslims of being pagans. Its a big problem in he muslim community in the west, because of the tremendous ignorance about their own religion, average muslims get suckered into the wahabi rhetoric.

Here is a good article by english muslim academic tj winter aka abdul hakim murad, called islamic spirituality the forgotten revolution. I would link it but im on my phone. You can find it by google though.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:40:18 2012 No.3256621

I wonder what is so attractive about Islam over other religions. I seriously don't see it. Could anyone share their personal attraction?

My greatest problem with Abrahamic religion is the whole God thing, but if I were to overcome that burden I would become Catholic or Orthodox like a motherfucker. I really like Jesus. I like Mary as well.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:43:19 2012 No.3256631 >>3256599 I am an iniated sufi. You have to be a muslim for ge sheik to accept you. He pledge you give him will include the shahada, your testifying that allah is the only god abd muhammad is his prophet

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:44:18 2012 No.3256638 >>3256631 >>3256621 Sorry about the spelling. Im on my phone

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:45:18 2012 No.3256640 >>3256638 Stop posting my posts from your phone, mister.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:45:18 2012 No.3256643

>>3256621

I don't think many people in this thread are interested in Islam as a whole. They're interested in Sufism. They see the wonderful medieval Islam, the beauty of it etc. and think 'Hey, this doesn't seem so bad.'

It's partially the nihilism we all have in common too, I think.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:45:18 2012 No.3256644

Islam is all about self discipline. Literally everything it asks is to break your animalistic urges and build your self discipline to control your 'Nafs'.
>Oh you want to run away from your troubles and get buzzed/drunk, no you don't face them. No drinking/
>Oh you want to have sex like a horny rabbit, no you dont. Respect women and lower your gaze, respect women and find a wife and do all what you want with your respectable life partner.
>Oh you want to be rich and buy everything, No your dont give your money to the poor and needy, other than zakkah you need to always aid your community because you have a responsbility for that.
>Oh you like to eat and drink, the most basic of human needs, No you simply dont, fast and know what self discipline is when you can just drink water from the fridge but dont because its not sun dawn yet.
>Oh life is busy and hectic, NOT an excuse, 5 times a day you will pray and get your forhead, your center of pride, on the floor. Killing your pride and making you humble. Praying next to your brothers in life, no nepotism or hierarchy we are all equal. You'd find a rich surgeon praying next to a homeless man shoulder to shoulder.

And all this aint even a bit of it, Islam is all about self discipline and living the just good life.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:46:18 2012 No.3256648 >>3256621 Your idea of god is deficient. Read some plato and heidegger, and ibn arabi

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:47:18 2012 No.3256655 >>3256648 Could you elaborate a bit more as to why it is instead of just referring me to 100 hours of reading about something I potentially have no real interest in?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:48:18 2012 No.3256658 >>3256644 This sort of explains why Arabs are so mad all the time.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:48:18 2012 No.3256659 >>3256655 >Plato, Heidegger >No interest Why are you even on /lit/?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:49:18 2012 No.3256662 >>3256621 >>3256644 forgot to link the response. Jesus is mentioned more times in the Quraan than mohamed. 'Read' was the first word revealed of the quraan. Just read about Islam and You'll know why.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:49:18 2012 No.3256664 >>3256658 I don't know why they would be. I would assume there's nothing more pleasurable than planting your cock, balls deep, in some delicious dancing boy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:50:18 2012 No.3256665 >>3256659 I meant the "non-deficient idea of god according to anon", not those guys in general.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:51:18 2012 No.3256669

>>3256644
It isnt just disciple for disciplines sake. Its what comes from the discipline, being a necessary part of the sufi path, the ultimate goal being fana or self annihilation, and marifa, or gnosis. Something akin to nirvana. But the difference is that in sufism there is a level higher than nirvana known as Baqa billah. THey say the journey to fana is limited but he journey in baqa is infinite.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:53:18 2012 No.3256676 >>3256664 Thats central asian, and afghan, culture. Not arabs.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 10:56:18 2012 No.3256680

>>3256658
Arabs are barely muslims now, and they're not angry. They're friendly as fuck, Mohamed said Smiling in the face of your brother is charity, they're always smiling there man. The shit you see on fox are literally the mentally ill and ignorant just having a party.

> I Lived in UAE, KSA, and Egypt for a long period of time.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 11:06:18 2012 No.3256703

In my opinion all this god shit is getting out of hand. Sure it was fun at first: big harvest orgies, spring parades, gave the women something to do on holy days.

Sure, every once in awhile you had to sacrifice or virgin or do a sacred dance, and fasting sucked for everybody but at least your loin cloth fit better afterward.

Then they started writing books, and giving commandments and generally horning into everyday life. You had sins, and atonements and precritions and commandments. You had to start saying thank you for just eating the food you'd grown already or ask nicely just to have a fever lifeted from your firstborn.

Then with the tithing and the inquisitions and the jihads and the revivals and reformations and then they start telling us how to vote and what we're allowed to wear and eat and do for a living.

Nope, we have to draw the line.

Creating the universe, taking care of the afterlife, ensuring a good harvest and keeping the locusts down, all well and good. But we can handle the rest ourselves. Just go back to your seven heavens and your nirvanas and your happy hunting grounds and we'll take it from here. we'll catch up with you on christmas, easter, tet, ramadan, let you know how everything's going and if we need anything in particular. You want to get in touch with us there's always the old burning bush thing. I'm sure you still have the number.

But this whole religion thing, it's starting to get creepy. Gods have to realize they're going too far. they need to learn their place.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 11:09:18 2012 No.3256710

Every muslim I've talked to talks about how beautiful the qur'an is but I don't get it. I've tried reading it many times but always give up and put it down because all I see is descriptions of punishments in store for unbelievers. Does it get better? At what part?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 11:11:18 2012 No.3256722 >>3256710 That's the good part too them.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 11:16:18 2012 No.3256731 >>3256722 how is that the good part to them? Justify that claim.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 11:16:18 2012 No.3256732 >>3256731 ALLAH-AKBAR!

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 11:17:18 2012 No.3256736 >>3256710 See, the problem with the Koran is it's hard to get into. There needs to be an edited and abridged version, reinterpreted into modern English. and with illustrations, of course. Lots of illustrations.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 11:20:18 2012 No.3256749

>>3256710
Almost every time a punishment is mentioned so is a reward. You're emotionally invested, which is perfectly fine, but you have to read the whole book with an open mind and heart. God's mercy is mentioned way more times than you might have noticed.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 11:23:18 2012 No.3256754

>>3256736
The whole point of the quraan is that its unfiltered words of god, you don't need to change it to understand it. You need to change your own level of knowledge to get it. You can't equate a complex algorithmic proofs book with math for dummies.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 11:27:18 2012 No.3256769 >>3253731 >Captain America Cap loves everyone who isn't hurting innocent people. Don't you dare suggest otherwise.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 11:29:18 2012 No.3256775 >>3256570 >start wearing turbans and blow myself up So if you'd become a Sikh they would've really flipped their shit, what with the requirement to wear a turban, not shave, and carry a weapon at all times?

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 11:30:18 2012 No.3256776 >>3256754 I still say a comic book version would help get the message across better. In fact, the prophet mo hammed agrees with me. I think it's in the Koran.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 11:34:18 2012 No.3256787 >>3256776 There's actually a bunch of comics that covers stories from the quraan. Meh though That being said, I don't think you've ever touch a Quraan bro.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 11:57:18 2012 No.3256834

>>3256787

I was just being facetious about the whole "pictures of mohammed" thing. I actually have several Korans.

I can't get into a religion that has silly arbitrary rules. No pork, no swearing, no idols, love your neighbor...

okay facetious again, but you see what i mean.

I think people who dress, behave and speak in a specific way, and shun other ways and the people who practice them are basically just hipsters by another name. and when they start crusades or jihads or soccer riots it's no more relevant to their moral status than being snide to someone who hasn't read DFW.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 22:19:19 2012 No.3258400 [DELETED]

File: 271 KB, 1222x1117, Untitled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Can someone recommend me a good book by each of the following?

James, Sinclaire, Fitzgerald, Faulkner, Verne, Wells, Clarke, Dostoevsky, Pushkin, Gogol, Chekov, Turgenev, Lermontov, Goncharov

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 22:24:19 2012 No.3258413

>>3258400

James: The Turn of the Screw (short, spooky, and deliciously ambiguous)
Sinclair: The Jungle (great social commentary on abbatoir working conditions)
Fitzgerald: The Last Tycoon (supposedly unfinished but it's a lot less hokey that GG)
Verne: The Mysterious Island (Robinson Crusoe meets Dr. Moreau)
Wells: The Island of Dr. Moreau (one of the best S/F novels I've ever read)
Clarke: dunno (did like the Six Billion Names of God)
Doestoevsky: The Double (less popular than some of his others, but very unsettling)
Pushkin: dunno
Gogol: Taras Bulba (better than Romeo&Juliet as a love story)
Chekov: Only read The Lady with the Dog. It was good

Last three: no clue.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 22:26:19 2012 No.3258416 >>3258413 oops wrong thread. Sorry.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 22:41:19 2012 No.3258465 If you stop looking for someone else's god you will find your own. I am enlightened, I did it myself. Religion is a trap.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 22:42:19 2012 No.3258466

>>3256710
>Every muslim I've talked to talks about how beautiful the qur'an is but I don't get it.

You're reading an English interpretation of it.

Try Arberry's translation (he approximates the style of the original with some success) and read the last quarter of it or so; the surahs get shorter, more poetic, and more esoteric.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 22:43:19 2012 No.3258468 >>3253532 that's a shame, it's always better to be able to embrace something than reject it. good for you for trying to work on it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 22:43:19 2012 No.3258470 >>3258465 >I am enlightened Nope.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 22:46:19 2012 No.3258478 >>3258470 Because you a not? It's comically easy to spot others who are, you will wake up some day.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 22:47:19 2012 No.3258480

>>3256557
>Sunnis really hate Sufism, don't they? I was looking up some interpretations of it and Islamic forums seemed to be filled with 'Don't let your boy become a Sufi, they're sodomites!' and 'Careful, they'll corrupt you.'

Sunniforum is a good example of a "traditional" Sunni online community that respects Sufism, though they're rather conservative and approach it cautiously.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 22:49:19 2012 No.3258485 >>3258478 >Because you a not? wat >It's comically easy to spot others who are It can also be easy to spot those who aren't. >you will wake up some day. Thanks, I hope you're right and that you will as well.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 22:59:19 2012 No.3258517

>>3258485
But you don't know what you're talking about, I do. I also have no urge to prove it to you, a sheep among sheep is not worth my time, sorry.

A religion will not help you find peace OP. You have read a great deal lit but you misunderstand the point of literature or perhaps forgot it.

Most readers are storytellers. You all have a story within you but you flee to your imagination because you think it is easier than making your imagination real. What you don't know is all you have to do is begin. Start.

Start with true intention of finishing what you know deep down you have to finish. All it takes is a start and you will never fail. Forget god and the bullshit religion has turned into and make yourself a god by creating what is within you.

Make yourself and you will be free. Simply understanding what freedom is what it is to be free.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 23:07:19 2012 No.3258540

>>3258517
>But you don't know what you're talking about, I do. I also have no urge to prove it to you, a sheep among sheep is not worth my time, sorry.

I hate to break it to you, bro, but you very clearly aren't "enlightened." The New Age pap you've internalized may have convinced you otherwise, but a truly realized being wouldn't feel the need to proclaim his or her enlightenment to 4chan or attempt to shit on religion like a 14 year-old redditor. I hope for your sake that you don't go around telling people that you're enlightened offline.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 23:09:19 2012 No.3258552

Any experts in here who can clear up the difference between Classical Arabic and MSA?

If I learn MSA, the language of the Qu'ran (as I understand it?), will I be able to read al-Tabari, al-Suyuti, Ibn Khaldun, Ibn Rushd, etc.? That can't be fucking right.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 23:12:19 2012 No.3258570 >>3258552 Why would the quran, a classical work, be written in modern standard arabic? Also, this information is easily found on google.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 23:14:19 2012 No.3258577

>>3258552
Th differences between classical Arabic and MSA aren't as huge as you'd think, it basically boils down to the use of archaic words and ways of phrasing. I and almost any other native Arabic speakers (the exceptions being the ones who are...well, exceptional at Arabic) need to consistently refer back to dictionaries and books of etymology to understand books that are heavily influenced by the language in the Koran. However, with practice comes improvement.

I don't know how helpful that was.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 23:15:19 2012 No.3258581

>>3258552

I've studied MSA for a few years. MSA isn't exactly the language of the Qur'an (which is what might be called Classical Arabic), but a high level of familiarity with MSA should be enough to basically understand the Qur'an with the aid of some kind of reference and certainly enough to read classical works by authors such as the ones you listed.

The differences aren't huge, though. "Classical" and "literary/modern standard" are all called fuṣḥa in Arabic.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 23:18:19 2012 No.3258593 >>3258581 Also, I've found this to be a very useful Qur'an-related resource, especially if you have at least some knowledge of Arabic: http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 23:18:19 2012 No.3258596

>>3258570
I tried but it was difficult go get a precise answer. There seems to be some overlap in the usage of terms, and I've had people give me conflicting info. Wikipedia stinks too.

>>3258577
>>3258581
Thanks very much. I'm interested in Arabic historiography and philosophy but never knew where to start.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 23:21:19 2012 No.3258604 >>3252528 You're a weak willed fag. Instead of trying to believe in something you know doesn't make sense, embrace a paradigm of acceptance of life's absurd (like many eastern religions).

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 23:23:19 2012 No.3258608 File: 45 KB, 458x319, 974yDi7Lth[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3258604 >embrace a paradigm of acceptance of life's absurd (like many eastern religions).

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 23:47:19 2012 No.3258690 >>3256599 The Ni'matullahi Order encourages full participation in society, including normal (but modest, of course) dress.

>>	Anonymous Tue Dec 18 23:53:19 2012 No.3258711 File: 152 KB, 455x450, Captain Islamocommufascinazi.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3256769 That's true, Cap loves every American regardless of race, color, creed, and class. But that's why he's a communist.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 23:55:19 2012 No.3258714

>>3256599
>If I become a Sufi, I don't need to wear robes do I?

Not necessarily, but dressing in a particular matter in considered Sunnah and if you progress spiritually, you'll grow to be more concerned with emulation of the Sunnah (subjugation/annihilation of your nafs) than with how you're perceived by others (subjugation by your nafs).

This is coming from a self-conscious person who browses /fa/ and dresses 'Western' so feel free to take it with a grain of salt.

Anonymous Tue Dec 18 23:59:20 2012 No.3258726

>>3258552
To simplify and add to what's already been said: Classical Arabic is the language at the time of the Qur'an's composition and MSA is a built off of, but is not identical to, Classical MSA, and is the standard written form from which all dialects sprout off (basically).

Anonymous Wed Dec 19 00:40:19 2012 No.3258821

Islam thread?

Daily reminder that to know about Islam all you have to do is look at its adherents:

The men are all smelly rapists, incredibly violent and misogynistic. They hate all modern things like technology or science or freedom. Pastimes include blowing themselves up for no reason and pederasty (despite hating gays, so ironic). Having a beer to relax is illegal.
The women are wrapped up in towels and when they eventually get raped, (because all Muslim men are disgusting hairy perverts with no morals, only kept in check by their authoritarian religion,) the women are the ones who get stoned to death.

Islam= Religion of Intolerance and Faggotry

Just so you know, the only reason you are attracted to it is because of these misogynistic, dominating characteristics, which, while abhorrent and filthy, do offer something to young males with nothing to their name; a women safely in the kitchen, no need to work hard (because fuck civilization), and lots of rules for those lacking independence or a father figure.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 00:41:19 2012 No.3258826 Scattered Pictures by Zaid Shakir. You asked for a book. He discusses 9/11, amongst other things. I said it's rather well-written and not difficult to get through at all. He's American as much as he is Muslim.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 00:42:19 2012 No.3258829 >>3258826 *say

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 00:57:19 2012 No.3258869 File: 40 KB, 350x349, cool-story-bro.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3258821

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 01:03:19 2012 No.3258891 I'm kind of surprised no one has made a religion power ranking over on /sp/.0

>>	sage Anonymous Wed Dec 19 01:15:19 2012 No.3258918 ITT People going through quarter life crises trying to fix them via orientalism. Seriously what is it with Americans and this whole 'born again' fetish

Anonymous Wed Dec 19 01:26:19 2012 No.3258941

>>3252528
I find it incredibly strange that a self proclaimed "atheist/nihilist" all of a sudden seeks the need to commit to one religion. If you are seeking structure in your life, you should consider taking the practices from religions that you feel connected to and create your own, personalized routine. Having a new God to believe in after 5 years of being an atheist isn't going to solve your problems/help you find peace. That shit comes from within yourself--not a book.

Go ahead and read different religious texts. You will find stuff that makes sense (I just finished the Book of the Dead and learned a lot), but don't feel the need to slip into the mold of a single religion.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 01:36:19 2012 No.3258957 >>3258821 Pederasty is a glorious tradition. Get the fuck out liberal.

Anonymous Wed Dec 19 01:50:19 2012 No.3258981
File: 60 KB, 400x391, ALLAH1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

OP here, in The name of Allah and his only messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him).

First off, I can't believe this thread is still here.

Second, I see a lot of people tossing around words like "weak-willed faggot" and such... saying that I'm wrong to seek a life of discipline and peace rather than stay truthful to the chaos of my personality and remain an faithless, misguided, lost soul. Yes, I am weak. We're all weak. It's our nature to be weak. Isn't that why we praise the courageous and strong-willed? I see nothing wrong with what I proposed. I spoke with my philosophy professor and asked him if (in the situation of Plato's allegory of the cave) if he would rather leave the cave and attain the burden of the miserable truth... or stay and live in ignorant bliss. Both he and I chose the later. We value happiness over the burden of knowledge. For he who increases knowledge, increases sorrow. Even wise men know that.

I would gladly sacrifice being "true to myself" in my infinite confusion and misery and take solace in the comfort and beauty of Islam and Allah's forgiveness, than live every day, day by day, knowing I am just withering away into non-existance.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 02:04:19 2012 No.3259010 >>3258981 Muslims do no believe that Muhammad is the only messenger of God, but that he is the final and most important messenger of God.

Anonymous Wed Dec 19 02:08:19 2012 No.3259018

>>3258981
>would rather leave the cave and attain the burden of the miserable truth... or stay and live in ignorant bliss.
>Both he and I chose the later

You're both confirmed for faggots unworthy of life.

Real men choose knowledge and truth and sorrow.

The pursuit of happiness is for those who are already dead.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 02:10:19 2012 No.3259021 >>3259018 >Real men choose knowledge and truth and sorrow. You can have the first two without the third.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 02:17:19 2012 No.3259029 >>3259018 >The pursuit of happiness is for those who are already dead. 0.6edgyπme

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 02:31:19 2012 No.3259046 >>3259018 Knowledge is overrated. It gains you nothing. And once you die. It's all ash. Happiness > Knowledge

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 02:54:29 2012 No.3259071 >>3259046 Happiness is overrated. It gains you nothing. And once you die. It's all ash. Knowledge > Happiness

Anonymous Wed Dec 19 03:00:02 2012 No.3259077

>>3259046
>>3259071
Knowledge and happiness are overrated. They gain you nothing. And once you die, it's all... wait, why the fuck are abstracts like "knowledge" and "happiness" turning into physical ash?

They become literally nothing. Ash is more than nothing.

Body > Happiness + Knowledge

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 03:25:20 2012 No.3259098 >>3258821 lel epic trol braw xD >>>/pol/

Anonymous Wed Dec 19 03:54:09 2012 No.3259117
File: 162 KB, 478x642, shah ismail.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3253521

>the major Sufis in early Islamic history who elaborated the concepts which would become Sufi doctrine (Al-Hasan al-Basri, Al-Junayd, Dhu'l-Nun, etc.) all stressed the importance of fulfilling one's basic duties as a Muslim before mysticism was permissible or even possible.

This nigga knows what he's talking about. Sufis generally consider themselves orders within a particular Islamic tradition: there are Sunni orders, Shia orders and orders which are more open to adherents of either side. The idea is that is through commitment to the Sharia (the basic precepts of being a Muslim) one can eventually reach a stage where they can inherit divine gnosis and esoteric knowledge. Their esoteric interpretations of the Qu'ran and Hadith though has often allowed them to have a broader understanding of what the "Sharia" entails and a more perennial outlook on God and religion, so it is generally easier for Muslims of strong Sufi persuasion to assimilate into secular or non-Muslim societies without feeling less secure in their faith.

>>3256576

>There is a misconception that sufism is a quietist apolitical movement.

That's very true. Sufi Orders are not above becoming political. The reason they have a tendency towards a quietist stance is due to the trend of mystical perennialism and of certain apocalyptic doctrines. But Sufis have often attached themselves to political movements and revolutions due to their general emphasis on community involvement.

The nation of Iran owes much of its predominantly Shia identity to the rise of the Safavid Empire in the 16th century, in which the dynasty was set up by the Safaviyyah Sufi Tariqa and the crowned Shahs, considered heads of the order, made Iran officially a Twelver Shia country with the order at the reins of power.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 04:48:01 2012 No.3259132 >>3256775 Sounds like your average Amerifat minus the wearing a turban part. Always eating a hamburger maybe?

Anonymous Wed Dec 19 05:50:06 2012 No.3259175
File: 87 KB, 750x600, amateur.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3252528
Sounds like you have a weak mind and need the false comfort of a religion to get you through life.

Don’t be too ashamed, most people in the world are in the same boat: incapable of growing beyond the primitive belief systems of their ancestors. You are free to put the training wheels back on your mind but don’t be surprised when those of us with integrity mock you for your hollow reasoning and fear driven beliefs.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 05:57:06 2012 No.3259180 File: 1.65 MB, 300x196, 1349419303005.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>3259175 >those of us with integrity mock you

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 06:16:17 2012 No.3259194 >>3259175 >>>/reddit/

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 06:43:01 2012 No.3259225 >>3259175 He just wants to experiment with different lifestyles. How is that weak minded? Don't pretend to know shit about other people after reading a paragraph.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 07:11:56 2012 No.3259264 >>3259018 Islam, unlike other abrahamic religions, says that knowledge is important. Muslims introduced and discovered important concepts is mathematics and astronomy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 07:13:58 2012 No.3259268 >>3252528 OP, have you looked into Hellenistic philosophy? It might be what you looking for. It offers principles and structure without being religious.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 07:19:33 2012 No.3259274 >>3259264 lolwut, Christianity says the samething about knowledge

Anonymous Wed Dec 19 07:53:54 2012 No.3259324
File: 172 KB, 750x756, arabic_calligraphy_butdoesitfloat_13_905.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>3252528
White Muslim convert here.

"False coins only exist because real gold exists."
- Rumi

"To not use something because others have misused it is the height of folly."
- Ibn' Arabi

Without having read the thread, Search your heart and find out if it's what your best self really wants.

I converted after a near death/psycho-mystical experience that put me in a psyche ward for 7 days. For me, Islam is the religion of Hard Work and Love. It's life affirming and world affirming: Yes you have a body, Yes you need to earn money and spend it. Go out and do stuff. God can be found in the marketplace as well as the prayer-niche.

Monastic and secular life are kind of blended, your life becomes the monestary. Wherever you are, you are obligated to reorient yourself and keep going.

It's one of the few western religions that still leaves a window open for Enlightenment. Mainly because there are no images to get hung up on when you start to drift into the intermediate realms of the subconscious. And if you are the right type of person, fasting can change your entire outlook on civilization.

I warn you now: no one will understand you. Not Arab Muslims, not white Christians, not even other white Muslims. You really have to search and find yourself with something like this, you become a bit of a white rhino, but the rewards are there. They will not come from an Imam, or rewarding facebook posts, or a fancy copy of the Qu'ran. They will come from inside yourself, from God.

Good luck.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 08:03:12 2012 No.3259329 It's a fascinating book, every non-pleb should read it. I got an english copy some years ago and was blown away by scientific references and detailed metaphorical stories

Anonymous Wed Dec 19 12:37:57 2012 No.3259849

>>3259132
Not really. Sikhs carry a specific weapon on them, called a kirpan. The purpose is to always be able to defend an innocent person or yourself. Sikhs believe in equality regardless of race, sex, etc. Sikhs also believe strongly in giving to the poor, and their churches double as soup kitchens.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 12:42:12 2012 No.3259855 >>3259274 Then why is the serpent evil for giving Adam and Eve knowledge?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 12:43:12 2012 No.3259856 >>3259324 Still, nothing wrong with a fancy copy of the Qu'ran if you like it, is there?

>>	Homerid !NLqByHLcRc Wed Dec 19 12:45:12 2012 No.3259859 >>3259855 Knowledge of Good and Evil, you omissive prick. Massive distinction.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 12:48:12 2012 No.3259868 >>3259859 >only this knowledge is okay >you're not smart enough to handle that knowledge So Christianity says we should remain infantile and unable to choose the right thing for ourselves?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 13:13:39 2012 No.3259936 >>3259071 Happiness gains you a happy life. Knowledge gains you a high paying job and a death at 45 of acute alcoholism. Did you put any thought into that besides NO U

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 13:15:25 2012 No.3259940 >>3259274 >lolwut, Christianity says the samething about knowledge >Creationism >Bans science and chemistry in schools

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 13:25:17 2012 No.3259962 >>3259940 Be fair. Fundamentalism is to the Desert Fathers of Christianity what a shitty hamburger is to a perfect steak.

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 14:44:15 2012 No.3260111 >>3259940 >Islam >shoots children for wanting to learn

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 14:52:20 2012 No.3260149 >>3259940 >>3260111 Is it amateur hour at Club Autism again?

>>	Anonymous Wed Dec 19 14:52:51 2012 No.3260150 >>3260149 I was merely being the magic mirror man.

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