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/lit/ - Literature

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3726992 No.3726992 [Reply] [Original]

Why is it that writers who do nasty and harmful drugs like opiates and alcohol have produced some great works, but writers who take so-called 'intellectual' drugs such as LSD and ketamine invariably produce horseshit?

Shouldn't mind-expanding substances work better in tandem with creativity than substances that destroy the mind and body?

>> No.3727003

>ketamine
>intellectual drug

hahahaha
haaaaahahahaahhhahhha

>> No.3727016

>>3727003

Ketamine is both a party drug and a consulting with aliens drug depending on the dose.

>> No.3727028

you only think they're mind expanding because said hippies told you. acid is a fine recreational drug, but seeing interesting colors and having realizations about the oneness of the universe don't lend themselves to long-form fiction, while opiates and alcohol allow you to get on "the zone" and stay there easier. While triggering hypergraphia is possible on acid the result while absurdly long is hardly readable. With enough codeine or speed you can pretty much write a book in a month, a lot more if you're a habitual speed user. Also fuck you, you judgmental fuck, your attitude is what is nasty and harmful.

>> No.3727024

Because you write when drunk, and edit when sober. If you drink enough, and are sharp enough, you can pretty much produce what you would produce sober, albeit with some odd errors here or there. Don't know, though. I'm drunk right now.

>> No.3727172

>>3726992
Well, I've heard hippie types call drugs like booze and heroin 'conciousness narrowing' and psychedelics and such 'conciousness expanding'. In a sense this is true, since the former category dulls and the second agitates as it were, one experiences more instead of less. They can get quite smug about this dichotomy.

What they fail to grasp is the psychology behind this. Great minds are often on the verge of derailing by themselves. The genius artist is naturally very sensitive. His conciousness is naturally 'expanded'. Permanently, not for the length of a trip. He has to live with such a lively experience of the world everyday. This is often very hard, leading them to self-medicate with depressants and painkillers and cope in all sorts of ways such as elaborate rituals and reclusiveness et cetera. The people who crave 'mind expansion' do not experience such a state as default and go looking for it.

Simply put, vibrant minds seek dullness and dull minds seek vibrancy.

>> No.3727185

Acid and ketamine floors your critical faculties. Roses by themselves are marvellous, etc.

>> No.3727187

>implying true thugs don't enjoy any type of drugs for the wild ride they can provide
>implying a genius would not drop acid then also drink, as well as smoke weed and many others
>hunter s. comes to mind

>> No.3727191

>>3727185
no they aren't wordsworth.

>> No.3727196

>>3727187
You've named one slightly above average writer.

Anymore?

>> No.3727197

>>3727196

aldous huxley

>> No.3727200

Hunter S Thompson and Huxley are pretty good. I don't really see any significant connection

But you'll say they're shit and I'm a pleb regardless of course

>> No.3727202

>>3727187
>implying a genius would not drop acid then also drink, as well as smoke weed and many others
>>3727197
>Aldous Huxley

Nope.

>> No.3727205

Ketamine is basically cheaper alcohol. There's a reason they use it to knock out horses.

I'm not sure where its association with things like acid and psilocybin come from aside from it being a hallucinogen because its a good escape substance while the other two will have you locked in for hours.

>> No.3727215

>>3727197
Broseph, he dropped tons of acid but he didn't fuck with that other stuff the way Hunter S. did.

>> No.3727235

kanye west

>> No.3727238
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3727238

>>3727205
>ketamine is basically cheaper alcohol
are you completely retarded?

>> No.3727242

>>3727205
>Ketamine is basically cheaper alcohol. There's a reason they use it to knock out horses.
there are more basic reasons than the economic one
use your head

>> No.3727244

>>3727242

>2013
>not using alcohol to knock the fuck out of horses

plebs

>> No.3727246

>>3727244
what vet school did you go to?

>> No.3727250

>>3727246

the ghetto university, mayne

>> No.3727276

>>3727238

They're used for the same purpose and it's significantly less expensive.

>> No.3727293

Sorry, but the authors you think of as being ``great" are in fact not great.

The Bible, Shakespeare, Homer.
those are greats

>and don't you fucking question it

>> No.3727296

>>3727293

>question everything

>> No.3727300

>>3727296
>autist taking it literally
For some reason they never end up questioning their own questioning.

>> No.3727305

I don't think "mind expanding" is the right term here.

>> No.3727310

>>3727305
If it makes you an atheist then it isn't mind expanding.

>> No.3727324

>>3727310
err.... wat?

>> No.3727360

>>3727310
And the reward for "Most relevant and not-random response of the thread" goes to....

>> No.3727446

>>3727293
>the bible
>doesn't know The Quran in original Arabic is an infinitely better book.

The Quran as an epic poem. Unfortunately if you don't know Arabic you miss out on it.

>> No.3727456

>>3727446
I know you're going to get troll'd but I agree even though my Arabic sucks. Just listening to the Quran being recited is something amazing. It's the Arabic version of The Iliad or The Odyssey.

>> No.3727462

>>3727003
You're a fucking idiot.

>> No.3727486

>>3727446
b-but it isn't as intellectual as the bible

>> No.3727554

>>3727462

>stabbing yourself in the nose with powdered horse tranquilizer for an hour of rubbing your face against the wall
>intellectual

druggies sure are funny

>> No.3728363

>>3727028
This guy is right. drugs are for plebs.

>> No.3728366

>>3726992
>mind-expanding substances
They're not expanding the mind, merely rewiring the connections in random patterns.

>> No.3728617

>>3727554
>isolating the mind from sensory perception can't be interesting intellectually

Top lel.

>> No.3728638

>>3727172
Never thought of it this way before. As a guy who craves stims and has never enjoyed hallucinogens I really want to believe it but I feel like I would sound EUPHORIC if I tried to explain it that way

>> No.3728660

My experience playong goonie for a bunch of hippes doing various euphorics and hallucinogenis has given me insight into this. Specifically, these are people of limited cognitive ability and very little imagination or ability to speculate on their own. The perspectives these drugs give them come with their own convictions of import and significance from the drugs messing around in the limbic/neocortic interface. They have numenistic priority.and the person experiencing them sometimes feeds off this when they come down to do something that's original and significant TO THEM after they come back down.. But since it's based on an altered perspective, it's the furthest thing from a universally accesible idea most of the time, so it comes across as weird and trivial to their audience, unless the writer is already really good at conveying subjective frameworks to people.
tl;dr: mind altering substances often actually take the writer farther from the shared experience of reality and acually make his writings flat and unsympathetic.

>> No.3728704

>>3728638
You could also state it as the mentally unstable seek security and the mentally stable seek adventure if you were so inclined if you don't want to anger the stoners. Meanwhile subtly suggesting that all great minds are unstable and that even smoking weed is a sign of dimwitted complacency and a fundamental inability to be plagued by existence, of course.

>> No.3728714

Shakespeare was into weed and coke

>> No.3728747

>>3726992
good question

>> No.3728751

>>3728714
and he was a drunkard, too.

>> No.3729030

>By creating the equivalent of an Nu-class Mnemolic, shrinking it instantaneously via a creatia tesseract array, and then projecting the resulting moth-talk well to a nil-point just outside the ego’s hull, an ASSN can slingshot the Paravant into era-streams without the needed energies of nearby aetheric bodies or shockpoint application.

Why do hippies always write like this? What's the obsession with invented compoundterms and hyphen-words? Why do they think anyone wants to read this?

>> No.3729077

>>3729030
>hippies
>hasn't read 'Terrornoia: how the propa-ugandists used the omni-territorialization of terror for the fundamentalismanization of criminal law in a multi-cultus-ritualistic society'

>> No.3729096

people take LSD because they believe that the distorted world they'll experience will provide them with inspiration
people drink to be calm and happy

>> No.3729103

Ket is a drug for chavs.

>> No.3729105
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3729105

The things that lead people to take nasty and harmful drugs are sometimes the same things that make them fascinating people or fascinating artists.

>> No.3729109

T. Mack did billions of mushrooms and as a result gave so many insightful, eloquent, and powerful speeches. Video very related

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1iFpw0uIkbo

>> No.3729302

>>3729109

Terrence Mackenna was a lunatic and the entire psychedelic scene is a breeding ground for the insane and the willfully deluded.

>> No.3729399

>>3727235

Don't.

>> No.3729408

>>3729302
Fun.

>> No.3729420

>define horseshit
>define great works

PROTIP: You're a gigantic faggot who is very close minded and wouldn't know art is it came up to you and told you it was your biological father and it wanted to raise you somewhere else, somewhere beautiful.

>> No.3729427

>>3728714
cocaine wasn't isolated until the 1850's...

>> No.3729433

>>3727446
The quran is a bunch of gibberish made up by cultist moon worshippers,

>The Bible is literature, the Quran is fanfiction.

>> No.3729454

>>3729433
>>3729433

>yfw the Koran is the third testament.

>> No.3729456

>>3729420
mckenna raw fag detected

>> No.3729460

>>3727191
>wordsworth

I think you mean Coleridge nigga

>> No.3729463

>>3729433
>read a few excerpts of the koran in english
>this is actually rather sensible and beautiful and reasonable
>that uncomfortable feel when fumbling with the trinity instead of hardline monotheism

>> No.3729472 [DELETED] 

zage XD

>> No.3729566

>Also fuck you, you judgmental fuck, your attitude is what is nasty and harmful.

Problem, drug addict?

I'll enjoy throwing you a few bucks when you're face down in the gutter after failing to publish your autobiography.

>> No.3729577

I aim to buck the trend.
I'm going to get drunk, take a load of heroin then write pages of shite.

>> No.3729591

M.H. Abrams has some interesting writing on the links between opium and Romanticism - Shelley, Keats, Coleridge, de Quincy et cetera. It's fun.

>> No.3729593

>he hasn't read Allan Watts!

>> No.3729637

A lot of the insights given by psychedelic drugs are too abstract to easily turn into fiction, and better suited to other artforms like music and visual arts.

>> No.3729645

Ken kesey liked lsd

>> No.3729663

Alcohol and opiates are a writers' medicine.
Acid tends to work well for musicians.

That's my take on it anyway.

>> No.3729683
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3729683

>mind expanding substances

All forms of intentional chemical imbalance for recreational purposes are a form of mental masturbation.

>> No.3729685

>>3729683
not that there's anything wrong with mental masturbation

>> No.3729691

>>3729593
Alan Watts was a drunk who only tried psychedelics a few times and found that more than enough. He spent most of his lectures pleasantly tipsy.

>> No.3729693

>>3729683

This, I tripped so much I ended up psychotic for four months, tripping is just generic hippy/neo-Buddhist nonsense presented in an elaborate compelling form that makes you obsess and lose track of reality.

>> No.3729699

>>3729693
>This, I tripped so much I ended up psychotic for four months
>I can't into moderation

>> No.3729706

>>3729685
It's better than mental abstinence.

>> No.3729709

>>3729427

THANK YOU, PATTY-PISS-ON-THE-PARADE.

>> No.3729728

>>3729685

Not at all, but when people trip balls and think that they communed with the spirit of the universe, it tickles me something awful.