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/lit/ - Literature

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4102899 No.4102899 [Reply] [Original]

>tfw reading Plato for the first time
Holy crap, understanding philosophy feels like being able to see one of those "magic eye" 3D pictures. Does the novelty wear off or will the fun remain?

>> No.4102902

The novelty will wear off the minute you crack open a chemistry textbook.

>> No.4102901

He's pretty ease. Get back to us when you've gone a few rounds with Hitler's school buddy.

>> No.4102906

>>4102902
Scientismist faggot

>> No.4102911
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4102911

The ancient Greeks knew how to kick it
Skip medieval period philosophy and move up to the 18th century

>> No.4102915

>>4102899
Nope.

>> No.4102920

>>4102902
Feeling euphoric? (I've had enough of those for now. Amino acids ectrophoresis left a bad taste in my mouth.)

>>4102901
Who?

>> No.4102927

>>4102899
I am reading some modern philosophy at the moment, some of what preceded Hitler's school budy actually. I thought today how delightfully it would be to read Plato, some phrases came to mind from the Republic and beauty of that work came back into my mind. Reading Frege and Russel, it's amazing to think the mathematical depth of Plato 2400 years prior to the mathematics and the following philosophy of Russel's time.

The part about how we shouldn't educate our children by force, but rather let them learn through play, because in that way, we will also discover the direction their nature is heading, is really beautiful to me, especially when you think about the state as an allegory of the well-ordered soul, as Socrates made it to be. The wordplay on education and child is also beautiful.

>> No.4102932

>>4102911
That's what I did, not on purpose though. Read through some Descartes and Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau and Hume lately, hope ill get into Aquinas soon

>> No.4102934

>>4102920
Wittgenstein of course.

>> No.4102940

Read Spinoza's Ethics, that should keep you occupied for a while.

>> No.4102947

>>4102911

Meh, Plato does nothing but makes really bad arguments about "What is justice?" and other stupid questions, and he always makes the person arguing with Socrates a giant retard.

There's some cool stuff in ancient Greek philosophy, but so much of it is pants on head retarded (like half the things Aristotle said).

I wouldn't completely disregard everything until the 18th Century. There were quite a few very important thinkers in the meantime. The Early Christians like Saint Augustine deserve a look, Boethius is interesting (plus one of the greatest works of American fiction, A Confederacy of Dunces, is based on his ideas, you should understand him for that book at least). And Jesus is probably the most influential person in the world whether he existed or not, a familiarity with the New Testament is important to have.

Also Asian philosophy shouldn't be disregarded. Taoism is mostly retarded mysticism, but Confucianism has interesting ideas.

All Pre-Darwin natural philosophy is completely bunk, but that doesn't mean you should just skip it.

>> No.4102948

Sidebar: which translation of The Republic is the best?

>> No.4102955

>>4102947
it isn't bunk but it is important to note that 'science' pre 1800 wasn't the science we know today. i guess you're right, since you just need to know that it cant be skipped thoughtlessly

>> No.4102958

>>4102927

But then there's things like the part in the Republic where he spends an entire chapter arguing that they should make different gods because their gods lie and fuck and drink too much.

Also it reeks of eliteism, it may be correct but my brain has been brainwashed with democracy so it makes me feel bad.

>> No.4102977

>>4102899
The novelty will either wear off or become ten times as fun when you realize that all of Plato's ideas are fucking garbage.

>> No.4102981

>>4102948

>not reading Ancient Greek

Go back to /b/ pleb.

>> No.4102982

>>4102947
Whether you like him or not, all of the philosophers who you do like are responding to Plato in some way or another. Even the ones who actively try to get away from are still influenced by his writing. Every philosopher who's written anything worth reading is aware of Plato's work. He might have the wrong answer sometimes, but that doesn't necessarily matter. It's one of the things that separates philosophy from other disciplines like science or history.

You don't have to be a scholar of Ancient Greek philosophy, but you can't just skip Plato and expect to really appreciate Western philosophy.

>> No.4102983

>>4102958
It's not about elitism. If you think your views of democracy come in conflict with it, study on the topic of Plato and read it again.

It's about the soul, the human being. Surely, you want what is best for the soul, reached by thinking, instead of the 'democratic' way, (which has no aplication when we talk about the soul), where the Good is determined only what people choose it to be.

Opinions is bunkers in philosophy, because of Plato, the subjectivism that Kierkegaard started is really different in my opinion. He didn't like democracy either but that is probably because he saw it come to life very clumsily.

>> No.4103004

>>4102982

I completely agree. It is crazy how much people straight up copied his style into the 17th Century. Galileo wrote books the same way, even when discussing purely physical things like gravity and heliocentrism.

Its really interesting to read the book that got Galileo in trouble. Its written exactly like Plato's books, a genius arguing Galileo's ideas, and a huge retard named Simplico arguing against them. And just like Plato, Galileo is utterly fucking wrong for half the book and makes horrible arguments that make you scream "YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SMART!".

>> No.4103072

>>4103004
>>4102947
I can't help myself but play out the scenes in my head, and they always end up hilarious.

>Hey Euthyphro, could you help me with something quick?
>Yeah, no problem! I sure know my way around piety :^)
>lol no you are wrong and a retard and wrong

It only makes me like him even more, though.

>> No.4103110
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4103110

>>4103072

Platosdialogues.jpg

>> No.4103140

>>4103110
Top lel

>> No.4103177

>>4103110
Isn't that the perspective of most people who write anything?

>> No.4103193
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4103193

>>4103110

>> No.4103208

>>4102977
But thats wrong retard.

>> No.4103212

>>4102920
heidegger

>> No.4103270

>>4103193
Fucking saved, renamed fittingly and placed in the appropriate folder.

>> No.4103307

>>4102948
Alan Bloom is the most modern up to date one right now. I haven't read it though. I read Jowett and had no issues (a lot of people don't like Jowett).

>> No.4103326

Plato is neither deep nor insightful, just tedious and outdated.

>> No.4103332

>>4103072
>>4103110
>>4103193

Are you retarded? Of COURSE he thinks he's right. Why else would he bother writing if he didn't think he was correct? Who the fuck thinks, "I bet I'm wrong, but I'm gonna write a bunch of books about it and teach it to my students anyway."

>> No.4103333

>>4103326
It's more or less the beginning of western thought so no. Be less edgy.

>> No.4103349

>>4103326
So how's school treating you?

>> No.4103354

>>4103333

>laughingpythagoras.jpg

>> No.4103363

>>4103333
No, it isn't. The ancient greeks couldn't even into logic.

>>4103349
Very well. I'm about to get my PhD.

>> No.4103364
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4103364

>>4103363
>The ancient greeks couldn't even into logic

>> No.4103365

>>4103364
Do you even know what logic is?

>> No.4103366

>>4103365
see: my previous image

>> No.4103368

>>4103366
I'll take that as a "no". Would you please either shut up about things you don't understand or GTFO back to /b/?

>> No.4103371

>>4103363
You're just talking a load of shit now.

>> No.4103372
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4103372

>>4103368

>> No.4103375

Believe me bro, it only gets more fun as shit gets more and more crazy and convoluted, or at least that's what I found. The ancients have never interested me very much because there isn't much of a "backstory" to their philosophy, and that's part of why I chose to specialize in the philosophy of language. It is arguably the most modern type of philosophy, other than postmodernism (which I cannot bear), and therefore the most interesting. And of course I chose to specialize in it for other reasons, but that's a big one for me.

>> No.4103376

>>4102911

>skipping the continental rationalists
'AVIN A GIGGLE ARE YA, M8?

>> No.4103378

>>4103371
Everything I posted is true. Your lack of counterarguments proves me even more right.

>>4103372
Please keep infantile reaction images on /b/. On a board like /lit/ we should expect higher levels of discourse.

>> No.4103388

>>4103376
outdated

>> No.4103390
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4103390

>>4102947

>Newton is complete bunk

>> No.4103392
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4103392

>>4103378

>> No.4103393

>>4103378
Not really. Shit is shit and you got called on it. Come at me with more 'counterargue' nonsense, you shit talker, you.

>> No.4103394
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4103394

give her the d

>> No.4103397

>>4103388

Well of course they're outdated post Kant, but so are the Greeks. They're still immensely interesting though, and some of their ideas are immensely salvageable, even if the framework as a whole has been destroyed. You don't know what you're talking about, kid.

>> No.4103401

>>4103392
No, I am not gay.

>>4103393
>argumentum ad hominem

>> No.4103402

>>4103378
>about to get PhD
>thinks lack of counterarguments is proof

>> No.4103403

>>4103397
The Greeks are the basis for literally every aspect of modern philosophy. Medieval period philosophers not so much. Of course if you have all the goddamn time in the world you should read every philosopher ever, but most people don't.

>> No.4103406
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4103406

>>4103403

>continental rationalists
>Medieval period
HOLY FUCKING SHIT KILL YOURSELF

>> No.4103415

>>4103401
Are you the same guy arguing all the Jews are evil from the other thread?

Once again: insults are not ad hominems. Nothing there was an attack on you as a person, just a statement of fact that you talk shit.

Want a tissue to dry your widdle eyes now?

>> No.4103417

>>4103406
Oh boy.

>> No.4103423

>>4103417

YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT "Oh boy" THIS SHITEATER THINKS THE 16th AND 17th CENTURIES COUNT AS THE MIDDLE AGES. FIGHT ME, COWARD.

>> No.4103426
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4103426

>>4103406
except that's what you implied, seeing as you responded to MY post saying 'skip medieval period philosophy' with 'hurr y would you skip the continental rationalists??!'
nice one retard

>> No.4103442

>>4103426

Pay attention to your OWN FUCKING POSTS, fagboy. You said to skip to the 18TH FUCKING CENTURY. That is RIDICULOUS AND I WON'T STAND FOR IT.

>> No.4103453

Once you get bored with the well-known stuff, next level is:

Samael Aun Weor

Arnold Krumm-Heller

Rudolf Steiner

>> No.4103462

>>4103442
I didn't specifically say to skip the 16th and 17th centuries, I said skip the medieval period and move up to the 18th century. As in move through the 16th and 17th centuries up to the 18th one~ :3

>> No.4103492

>>4103462

Well then, are you now insinuating that you should STOP with the 18th century? Because this is also retarded. Just admit it: You weren't thinking about what you were typing.

>> No.4103497

>>4103492
You should skip 1801 and move directly to 1802, so yes

>> No.4103501

>>4103497

u wot
Be more clear.

>> No.4103516

>>4103333
>>4103354
>laughingthales.jpg

While I'm at it


>>4103363
>laughingaristotles.jpg

What is your phd about ? Shoplifting ?

>> No.4103574

>>4103390

Newtons greatest work according to himself is a massive proof that Solomans temple was the first temple on Earth and all religions that exist are descended from Judaism. He's just lucky that he is such a motherfucking genius that his little pet projects that he didn't care about have been so useful to us.

Even the principa is bunk. Yes it's equations work pretty well for our purposes on Earth, but It is a simplification of general relativity for objects of around our size.

>> No.4103588

>>4103574
All physics theories yet created, relativity and quantum mechanics included, are approximation. The

>Newton is bunk because we have more refined theories now

is retarded as it would let us to disregard all past, present, and a good deal of future science. Newton's physcis work extremely well on an extremely wide number of situations, who also happen to be the most common situations at hand. It's still widely used nowadays and some of the problems generated by Newtonian mechanics are still unsolved. You can't ask much more of a theory. Relativity is unnecessary in many cases as it just make matters more complicated in those.

>> No.4103599

>>4103516

>implying Thales was a real person
>implying that even if he was a real person, the myths surrounding him aren't much larger than himself


He's basically Greek Jesus

>> No.4103643

>>4103599
The same could be said of Caesar and Alexander the Great.

>> No.4103653

>>4103599
>pythagoras is less mythical than thales

Please reread the post I was responding to

>> No.4103669

>>4103643
and George Bush Jr

>> No.4103684

>>4103643

No, both of them had tons of contemporaries writing about them. Most of what we know of Thales comes from Aristotle, who lived 200 years after his death and had no access to his writings.