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/lit/ - Literature

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4346376 No.4346376[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

What's /lit/'s opinion on Joseph Conrad?

I've heard many early 20th century writers considered him a hack but at least Hemingway disagreed and said it was just fashionable to disparage Conrad's work for no good reason other than what amounted to acquiring hipster cred.

>> No.4346409

racis

>> No.4346424

>>4346376
Without delving into the topics he explored, I'll just say I've always found the quality of his prose mindblowing considering English was his third language and he only learned it in his thirties.

>> No.4346437

Conrad is part of the crème de la crème. He is head and shoulders above 90% of all writers, regardless of language or age.

>> No.4346443

>>4346376
i haven't read much of him, just heart of darkness and the duel,but i loved them,especially heart of darkness,which is one of my favourite books.
i hated the adaptations though.
especiall the duel by ridley scott.he really missed the point.

>> No.4346463

>>4346376
Hemmmingway said that? Intredasting. I'd say he's a great writer, but he does exemplify a certain complex 19th century style of writing that I could see some people getting aggravated by (I'd expected those people's tastes to be strongly influenced by Hemmmmingway's writing, ironically).

>> No.4346467

>>4346463
>I'd expect those people

>> No.4346471

ITT: racist Shitlords

>> No.4346477

>>4346471
Fuck off Sarah.

>> No.4346504

>>4346471
Stop pretending to be /tumblr/, /pol/. It's silly.

>> No.4346506

>>4346463
>Hemmmingway said that?

Well, what he wrote was...

>It is fashionable among my friends to disparage him. It is even necessary. Living in a world of literary politics where one wrong opinion often proves fatal, one writes carefully. I remember how I was made to feel how easily one might be dropped from the party, and the short period of Coventry that followed my remarking when speaking of George Antheil that I preferred my Stravinsky straight. I have been more careful since.

>It is agreed by most of the people I know that Conrad is a bad writer, just as it is agreed that T.S. Eliot is a good writer.

>If I knew that by grinding Mr. Eliot into a fine dry powder and sprinkling that powder over Mr. Conrad's grave Mr. Conrad would shortly appear, looking very annoyed at the forced return, and commence writing I would leave for London early tomorrow morning with a sausage grinder.

>> No.4346510

>>4346506
>If I knew that by grinding Mr. Eliot into a fine dry powder and sprinkling that powder over Mr. Conrad's grave Mr. Conrad would shortly appear, looking very annoyed at the forced return, and commence writing I would leave for London early tomorrow morning with a sausage grinder.

Haha. Hem was one of a kind.

>> No.4346517

>>4346506
Heh, author infighting is so much fun. There was a post earlier about Hemmingway beating up Wallace Stevens. Really, though, I'd have to keep Conrad, Eliot, Hemmmingway, and Stevens. They're all excellent.

>> No.4346533

just another racist fuck

>> No.4346550

Just a reminder to the /pol/ shitposters that nigger was the preferred term back then, both negro and black were considered racist slurs, but not nigger.

>> No.4346581

>>4346504
Why are you so obsessed with /pol/?

>> No.4346602

judging solely from the cover: a racist asshat.

>> No.4346619

>>4346550
>both negro and black were considered racist slurs, but not nigger.

seems hard to believe. got a source on that one?

>> No.4346624

>>4346376
Good writer, but his best work is Heart of Darkness and I felt that a lot of his stories paled in comparison to it.

>> No.4346710

>>4346624
pleb

>> No.4347899

>>4346624
Heart of Darkness is overrated.

Lord Jim on the other hand...

>> No.4347922

>>4347899
or nostromo. or the secret agent. or under western eyes.

conrad is pretty based.

>> No.4347927

>>4346602
>asshat

Perfect pitch. Although, if I were doing it, I'd post

>Judging solely from the cover? A racist asshat.

The capitalization implies prissiness and the question mark gives it a hyperventilating, over-wrought quality.

>> No.4348079

I like Bertrand Russell's portrait of Conrad from Portraits from Memory:

"I made the acquaintance of Joseph Conrad in September 1913, through our common friend Lady Ottoline Morrell. I had been for many years an admirer of his books, but should not have ventured to seek acquaintance without an introduction, I traveled down to his house near Ashford in Kent in a state of somewhat anxious expectation. My first impression was one of surprise. He spoke English with a very strong foreign accent, and nothing in his demeanor in any way suggested the sea. He was an aristocratic Polish gentleman to his finger tips. His feeling for the sea, and for England, was one of romantic love love from a certain distance, sufficient to leave the romance untarnished. His love for the sea began at a very early age. When he told his parents that he wished for a career as a sailor, they urged him to go into the Austrian navy, but he wanted adventure and tropical seas and strange rivers surrounded by dark forests; and the Austrian navy offered him no scope for these desires. His family were horrified at his seeking a career in the English merchant marine, but his determination was inflexible.

He was, as anyone may see from his books, a very rigid moralist and politically far from sympathetic with revolutionaries. He and I were in most of our opinions by no means in agreement, but in something very fundamental we were extraordinarily at one.

My relation to Joseph Conrad was unlike any other that I have ever had. I saw him seldom, and not over a long period of years. In the outworks of our lives, we were almost strangers, but we shared a certain outlook on human life and human destiny, which, from the very first, made a bond of extreme strength. I may perhaps be pardoned for quoting a sentence from a letter that he wrote to me very soon after we had become acquainted. I should feel that modesty forbids the quotation except for the fact that it expresses so exactly what I felt about him. What he expressed and I equally felt was, in his words, "A deep admiring affection which, if you were never to see me again and forgot my existence tomorrow, would be unalterably yours usque ad finem"

>> No.4348084

>>4348079
Of all that he had written I admired most the terrible story called The Heart of Darkness, in which a rather weak idealist is driven mad by horror of the tropical forest and loneliness among savages. This story expresses, I think, most completely his philosophy of life. I felt, though I do not know whether he would have accepted such an image, that he thought of civilized and morally tolerable human life as a dangerous walk on a thin crust of barely cooled lava which at any moment might break and let the unwary sink into fiery depths. He was very conscious of the various forms of passionate madness to which men are prone, and it was this that gave him such a profound belief in the importance of discipline. His point of view, one might perhaps say, was the antithesis of Rousseau's: "Man is born in chains, but he can become free." He becomes free, so I believe Conrad would have said, not by letting loose his impulses, not by being casual and uncontrolled, but by subduing wayward impulse to a dominant purpose.

He was not much interested in political systems, though he had some strong political feelings. The strongest of these were love of England and hatred of Russia, of which both are expressed in The Secret Agent: and the hatred of Russia, both Czarist and revolutionary, is set forth with great power in Under Western Eyes. His dislike of Russia was that which was traditional in Poland. It went so far that he would not allow merit to either Tolstoy or Dostoievsky. Turgeniev, he told me once, was the only Russian novelist he admired.

Except for love of England and hatred of Russia, politics did not much concern him. What interested him was the individual human soul faced with the indifference of nature, and often with the hostility of man, and subject to inner struggles with passions both good and bad that led toward destruction. Tragedies of loneliness occupied a great part of his thought and feeling. One of his most typical stories is Typhoon. In this story the captain, who is a simple soul, pulls his ship through by unshakable courage and grim determination. When the storm is over, he writes a long letter to his wife telling about it. In his account his own part is, to him, perfectly simple. He has merely performed his captain's duty as, of course, anyone would expect. But the reader, through his narrative, becomes aware of all that he has done and dared and endured. The letter, before he sends it off, is read surreptitiously by his steward, but is never read by anyone else at all because his wife finds it boring and throws it away unread.

>> No.4348089

>>4348084
The two things that seem most to occupy Conrad's imagination are loneliness and fear of what is strange. An Outcast of the Islands like The Heart of Darkness is concerned with fear of what is strange. Both come together in the extraordinarily moving story called Amy Foster. In this story a South Slav peasant, on his way to America, is the sole survivor of the wreck of his ship, and is cast away in a Kentish village. All the village fears and ill treats him, except Amy Foster, a dull, plain girl who brings him bread when he is starving and finally marries him. But she, too, when, in fever, her husband reverts to his native language, is seized with a fear of his strangeness, snatches up their child and abandons him. He dies alone and hopeless. I have wondered at times how much of this man's loneliness Conrad had felt among the English and had suppressed by a stern effort of will.

Conrad's point of view was far from modern. In the modern world there are two philosophies: the one, which stems from Rousseau, and sweeps aside discipline as unnecessary; the other, which finds its fullest. expression in totalitarianism, which thinks of discipline as essentially imposed from without. Conrad adhered to the older tradition, that discipline should come from within. He despised indiscipline, and hated discipline that was merely external.

In all this I found myself closely in agreement with him. At our very first meeting, we talked with continually increasing intimacy. We seemed to sink through layer after layer of what was superficial, till gradually both reached the central fire. It was an experience unlike any other that I have known. We looked into each other's eyes, half appalled and half intoxicated to find ourselves together in such a region. The emotion was as intense as passionate love, and at the same time all-embracing. I came away bewildered, and hardly able to find my way among ordinary affairs.

I saw nothing of Conrad during the war or after it until my return from China in 1921. When my first son was born in that year I wished Conrad to be as nearly his godfather as was possible without a formal ceremony. I wrote to Conrad saying: "I wish, with your permission, to call my son John Conrad. My father was called John, my grandfather was called John, and my great-grandfather was called John; and Conrad is a name in which I see merits." He accepted the position and duly presented my son with the cup which is usual on such occasions.

>> No.4348092

>>4348089
I did not see much of him, as I lived most of the year in Cornwall, and his health was failing. But I had some charming letters from him, especially one about my book on China. He wrote: "I have always liked the Chinese, even those that tried to kill me (and some other people) in the yard of a private house in Chantabun, even (but not so much) the fellow who stole all my money one night in Bangkok, but brushed and folded my clothes neatly for me to dress in the morning, before vanishing into the depths of Siam. I also received many kindnesses at the hands of various Chinese. This with the addition of an evening's conversation with the secretary of His Excellency Tseng on the verandah of a hotel and a perfunctory study of a poem, 'The Heathen Chinee' is all I know about Chinese. But after reading your extremely interesting view of the Chinese Problem I take a gloomy view of the future of their country." He went on to say that my views of the future of China "strike a chill into one's soul," the more so, he said, as I pinned my hopes on international socialism "The sort of thing," he commented, "to which I cannot attach any sort of definite meaning. I have never been able to find in any man's book or any man's talk anything convincing enough to stand up for a moment against my deep-seated sense of fatality governing this man-inhabited world." He went on to say that although man has taken to flying, "He doesn't fly like an eagle, he flies like a beetle. And you must have noticed how ugly, ridiculous and fatuous is the flight of a beetle." In these pessimistic remarks, I felt that he was showing a deeper wisdom than I had shown in my somewhat artificial hopes for a happy issue in China. It must be said that so far events have proved him right.

This letter was my last contact with him. I never again saw him to speak to. Once I saw him across the street, in earnest conversation with a man I did not know, standing outside the door of what had been my grandmother's house, but after her death had become the Arts Club. I did not like to interrupt what seemed a serious conversation, and I went away. When he died, shortly afterward, I was sorry I had not been bolder. The house is gone, demolished by Hitler. Conrad, I suppose, is in process of being forgotten. But his intense and passionate nobility shines in my memory like a star seen from the bottom of a well. I wish I could make his light shine for others as it shone for me. "

>> No.4348099

>>4346581
Not obsessed at all, just telling him he's being silly.

>> No.4348123

I've only read Heart of Darkness and the Secret Agent. I need to read more because they're both great.

I wasn't a big fan of the Secret Agent until the last 10 or so pages, which is some of the most devastating prose I've ever read.

"And the incorruptible Professor walked too, averting his eyes from the odious multitude of mankind. He had no future. He disdained it. He was a force. His thoughts caressed the images of ruin and destruction. He walked frail, insignificant, shabby, miserable—and terrible in the simplicity of his idea calling madness and despair to the regeneration of the world. Nobody looked at him. He passed on unsuspected and deadly, like a pest in the street full of men."

>> No.4348137

>>4348084
>>4348089
>>4348092
Thank you for this!

>> No.4348155

>>4348137
seconded

>> No.4348189

>>4348155
>>4348137
I recommend the tiny book in general, it also includes (alongside assorted essays) several other similar portraits, including ones of George Santayana, George Bernard Shaw, H.G. Wells, D. H. Lawrence and Alfred Whitehead. I've found and read the original 1950s print of the book in my grandfather's library as a young teen and it introduced me to most of those characters.

>> No.4348196

>>4348123
mother of god that prose is powerful

>> No.4348206

>>4348196
and edgy

>> No.4348266

>>4348089
>In all this I found myself closely in agreement with him. At our very first meeting, we talked with continually increasing intimacy. We seemed to sink through layer after layer of what was superficial, till gradually both reached the central fire. It was an experience unlike any other that I have known. We looked into each other's eyes, half appalled and half intoxicated to find ourselves together in such a region. The emotion was as intense as passionate love, and at the same time all-embracing. I came away bewildered, and hardly able to find my way among ordinary affairs.
gay

>> No.4348267
File: 220 KB, 450x403, 1367846281757.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4348267

>>4348206

>> No.4348280

>>4348267
It took me a whole minute to realize that dog is just wearing pantyhose. That's what's in the photo, right?

>> No.4348284

>>4348267
>>4348280
We can define this as animal cruelty right? This level of degeneracy simply cannot be allowed to continue.

>> No.4348293
File: 77 KB, 500x666, 1386514324621.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
4348293

>>4348284

>> No.4348294

>>4348284
>We can define this as animal cruelty right?
Only if the dog's in pain, which it doesn't appear to be.

>> No.4348313

>>4348284
I'll call PETA and they'll surely get this site down. Too much abuse, no grace, such unenjoyment.

>> No.4348636

>>4346471

>Shitlord

sure is reddit in here

>> No.4348755 [DELETED] 

>>4348636
ur mum is reddit in hereeXDDDDDD!!!!!111111!1!!1!!!!11!

>> No.4348874

Conrad is one of the greatest writers ever. Big time favourite of mine. Even if he wasn't, I'd still put him up near the top.

His prose is unbelievable and mindblowing. The content of his great works (Lord Jim, Heart of Darkness, Nostromo, The Secret Agent, and Under Western Eyes) is incredibly profound and distressing.

Read his shit.

>> No.4348890

>>4348874
jesus calm down johnny don't throw your underwear yet