/lit/ - Literature

[rhenvar !!cFKTm4cwtwZ No.4423698]

In Zarathustra, Nietzsche poses the ideas of free will, the will to power, and eternal recurrance

if eternal recurrance is true, then doesn't that eliminate free will?

[Anonymous No.4423703]

eternal recurrence = sophistic nihilism, religion, politics

[rhenvar !!cFKTm4cwtwZ No.4423708]

>>4423703
explain?

does he contradict himself? Is there free will?

[Anonymous No.4423785]

bump

[Anonymous No.4423798]

>>4423708

The eternal return is a thought experiment used as a tool to affirm life. And Nietzsche basically approaches free will from the perspective that the question of determinism and free will is moot, but we might as well live as though we have free will because its how we experience the world.

[Anonymous No.4423810]

Dude, eternal recurrence isn't some out there deterministic conception of existence or the universe. It's infinite, determined nature is meant to highlight the finiteness of our life. Each of our actions is definitive. There is no second go around, there is nothing beyond this.

If you can live knowing that you'll live this exact same life over again for eternity and not only accept it, but be thrilled by the prospect then you are living your life as you should. If the thought of living your life over again without the opportunity to change anything terrifies you then you are living your life the wrong way.

[Anonymous No.4423812]

>>4423708
i am not sure if i know enough about the subject to say but i do not think that "eternal return" could not be used to contradict the presence of free will. it merely is the idea that life and every energy in the universe have cyclic lives. and, giving the infinite times that these energies and lives will continue to live there are finite amount of configurations these lives can take during their life spans. therefore, it is not a lack of free will that exists but only a finite amount of actions and sequences one can take under the governing laws of nature.

hope i made sense.

[Anonymous No.4423818]

>>4423810
lol. i am >>4423812 and took it very literal. glad you could shine some light on it being a thought experiment and not a concrete conception of existence.

[Anonymous No.4423830]

>>4423810
Righteous, man.

[rhenvar !!cFKTm4cwtwZ No.4423869]

>>4423810
so all Nietzsche is saying is: You should have the courage to accept your life as it is?

[Anonymous No.4423949]

What if Nietzsche was a bad philosopher and his critiques were nothing but strawmen?

[rhenvar !!cFKTm4cwtwZ No.4423957]

>>4423949
what if shitposters just stopped posting in threads they disagreed with?

[Anonymous No.4423964]

>>4423869
I think Nietzsche would distinguish between those who merely accept eternal recurrence and those who fully embrace it. The former is made up of those who merely resign themselves to the definitive nature of their actions and the inability to change previous actions and fail to push themselves beyond their limits. They accept the pains of life with little struggle. Basically, those who just say "it can't be helped."

The latter, however, embrace it not because they are content with how their life has continued but because they have imbued their life with the spirit of struggle and development. It is, for them, a joyful journey to struggle and fail.

Those who fear eternal recurrence are those aware of struggle and pain and are in some way deeply unsatisfied with their development in such a way that arrests their actions rather than drives them to continue.

[Anonymous No.4423965]

> pointing out flaws in Nietzsche's work = disagreeing with OP

triptard logic

[rhenvar !!cFKTm4cwtwZ No.4423971]

>>4423964
makes sense, very much along the lines of his "amor fati" style. Thanks alot, that clears up a lot of stuff

[Anonymous No.4423990]

>>4423698
No? Jesus Christ, what a ridiculous question to ask when you are on the level of reading Nietzsche.

Nietzsche of all people would argue that eternal recurrence is the very thing which should drive us to use our free will to create value for ourselves and escape the chains of repetition.

What is this, Freshman year?

[rhenvar !!cFKTm4cwtwZ No.4424023]

>>4423990
I was simply putting it into context:

If everything was bound to repeat itself, and has been repeating itself infinitely. then the present is just a repetition of the past: therefore, any illusion of "choice" would simply be repeating something in the past.

For example: If this is the infinite-th time that WW2 happened, then there was no real choice that the generals or leaders had: they were inevitably on the same path that occured an infinite number of times.

That's why I was confused with recurrence and determinism, but >>4423810 cleared it up

[Anonymous No.4424047]

>Nietzsche
>Free Will

Read again, m8.

[Anonymous No.4424057]

>>4423964
that's amor fati

"And as for my Zarathustra, who among my
friends would have seen more in it than an impermissible though
fortunately utterly harmless piece of arrogance?...Ten years: and no
one in Germany has felt duty-bound to defend my name against the
absurd silence under which it lies buried: it was a foreigner, a Dane,
who first had enough fineness of instinct and fortitude to do this, who
was enraged at my so-called friends...At which German university
today would lectures on my philosophy be possible such as were held
last spring in Copenhagen by Dr. Georg Brandes, thereby proving
himself once more a philosopher? — I myself have never suffered from
all this; what is necessary does not offend me; amor fati describes my
innermost nature. This does not, however, rule out my love of irony,
even world historical irony."

"Today I still have the same affability toward
everybody, I am even full of respect for the lowliest: in all this there is
not a grain of haughtiness, of secret contempt. He whom I despise
divines that he is despised by me: through my mere existence I enrage
all those who have bad blood in their veins...My formula for human
greatness is amor fati: that one wants nothing to be different, not in the
future, not in the past, not for all eternity. Not only to endure what is
necessary, still less to conceal it — all idealism is falseness in the face
of necessity — , but to love it..."

Eternal recurrence
"The doctrine of the “Eternal Recurrence,” that is, of the
unconditional and endlessly repeating circulation of all things — this
doctrine of Zarathustra’s could possibly in the end also have been taught by Heraclitus. At least the Stoics, who derived all their
fundamental ideas from Heraclitus, possessed traces of it."

All from ecce homo

[Anonymous No.4425188]

No, see. He didn't get it quite right. But someone has.