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/lit/ - Literature

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File: 41 KB, 246x381, ConsiderPhlebas.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5383527 No.5383527[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

OK, it wasn't bad. It had its weaknesses though.

A certain heavy handed telling, rather than showing, plus repetitive pointing out of the obvious.

Now, I actually liked it over all, but the greatest value to this story was picking up on how I would not have written it were I to write something similar. I also found a few things I enjoyed, as in yeah I'd like to include that in my own works.

The general vibe I've picked up around and about is that this was both his first and weakest novel of the Culture series. So, if I may get your opinions, what is the best novel in the series to read:

1) After this one? Or -

2) The best to read in the series, no matter the sequence?

>> No.5383639

>>5383527
>The general vibe I've picked up around and about is that this was both his first and weakest novel of the Culture series

Yes indeed.

As to your question, you could read the books in any order since not too many characters show up more than once. The best is a matter of opinion, but I'd say Player of Games.

>> No.5383648
File: 47 KB, 333x500, 51W0QXp4fkL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5383648

What the fuck did this book have to do with algebra? Shouldn't it have been called "The Sentient Pasta Wheels"?

>> No.5383658

>>5383527
Man, that book. I agree that overall it wasn't terrible, but there are parts of it that are just shit. The whole interlude with the pyramid-shaped cannibal guy on the island? Who the fuck would ever think that was a good idea to add to the novel? Iain M. Banks, apparently.

>> No.5383671

>>5383658

The need to put in gross sections for no reason is a regular trait of Banks. Like in Player of Games, the torture TV network and incest subplot were so unnecessary and did a lot to ruin the story.

>> No.5383687

I've read up to his "break" in the Culture series (so basically I haven't read Matter or anything past it yet).

Player of Games was definitely my favourite. Use of Weapons was pretty good and might go up in my estimation after a re-read.

The others are pretty meh TBH. Excession is one big maguffin that doesn't justify what it shows about Minds. LTW was just pretty stupid and boring. SotA stories are pretty inconsequential.

>> No.5383814

OP here - OK, the plan is PoG next. Consensus here and elsewhere is this be the homerun of the series. Next UoW - which touches on some themes that I can flash on, in particular.

Thank guys!

>> No.5385347

>>5383639
Are you serious? Player of Games was one of the worst novels I've ever read, and I quite like Banks on a good day.

The guy is obsessed with incest, adultery, repressed childhood trauma, board games, psycho women characters, and incest again. If that's your bag keep going, otherwise stop now. Same goes for his non-sf too

>> No.5385351

>>5383648
so true

>> No.5385356

>>5385347
second this
excession, look from the windwards and hydrogen sonata are so much better

>> No.5385419

>>5383527

I personally cant stand Consider Phlebas, and would only ever recommend it after you read some of the good Culture stories.

The best Culture novel to start off with is Player of Games, it's decently all round, introduces most key concepts if you dont like diving straight into a universe. The best Culture novels, are, in approximate order: Use of Weapons, The Hydrogen Sonata, Surface Detail.

If you want to try his other SF stuff, Feersum Endjinn >>>>>>>>>>>>>everything else.

>> No.5385428

>>5385356

What a load of crap.

Excession is basically "it's fucking nothing.jpg" the book.

Look to Windward is filled with pointless digressions and is another obviously pointless book because the Minds are so fucking god tier.

>> No.5385441

>>5385428
Agreed on Excession, it sucked. Windward however had that one chapter that was all dialogue about that composer being rude to people at a party, now that made me laugh out loud

>> No.5385449

those 3 books and consider phlebas are the only culture novels worth reading. player of games suck hard being some clumsy description of an alien society, use of weapons is meh and surface detail is simply shit

>> No.5385453

>>5385441

>look to windward
>"woe is me I am sad I am still alive"
>the most laid back suicide mission in the universe
>culture hobnobbing
>mission fails

As opposed to
>Excession
>Thingy appears everyones interested in
>Ship conspiracy
>human drama influencing ship drama
>bitching space battles
>obnoxious alien assholes get asses handed to them

How is the second one not better?

>> No.5385470

>>5385453
>he doesn't like hobnobbing

Anyway Excession is bad because the thingy in question turned out to do nothing at all, Banks can't write action, there were no decent characters and the humour boiled down do "Ooh, don't these ships have KOOKY names!"

>> No.5386851

OP still here and paying attention; again - thank you for the commentary.

>> No.5386877

Excession is the best one because it focuses so much on the ships, which are the only interesting and fun aspect of the Culture universe.

>> No.5387011

>>5383658
>The whole interlude with the pyramid-shaped cannibal guy on the island?
That's anout when I quit. Seemed like just one damn episode after another, like the Hitchhiker's Guide but not funny.

>> No.5388631

>>5386877

I agree it's interesting that it focuses on the Minds and shows a devious side of the Culture that they pretend doesn't exist.... But the plot was basically them sitting around shooting the shit, while some other Mind (the Sleeper one) went off on its own equally pointless story, just because.

I don't know how the later Culture books are, but it felt really obvious that Banks had written himself into a corner with the Culture. He made them too amazing, basically. Minds and drones should be able to do just about anything. The reasons PoG and UoW are good is because they focus more on the human elements of Special Circumstances.

>> No.5389891

Consider Phlebas is my favourite followed closely by Player of Games. I've read all of the Culture novels except Matter. Use of Weapons was my least favourite. I loved the world building in Consider Phlebas the most. Reading about the social aspects of alien cultures is very enjoyable for me and consider that Consider Phlebas was the book to introduce the world of the Culture to me, it will always be my favourite.

>> No.5390192

>>5388631
The Culture gets knocked down a peg in Look to Windward.

>> No.5391617

>>5383671

Banksy has a bit of a thing for the 'cest, [/spoiler ]though.

Walking On Glass, A Song Of Stone, that one scene in Whit, so on.

>> No.5391623

>>5383814

For series best it's a toss-up between Player of Games and Excession (I really like the Ships).

PoG happens to be next in written order, so I'd say go with that.

>> No.5391685

>>5383527
I thought this one sucked, but I enjoyed a short story about a Culture ship coming to study Earth.

>> No.5391720
File: 98 KB, 960x650, 1404326678212.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5391720

>>5383527
The premise of a sci-fi reader:
>read a shitty sci-fi story
>read more shitty ones from the series hoping it will eventually turn out to be good
>reach an absolute shit one
>"I want more"

>> No.5393187

Man, I just started reading Matter this week. The first four chapters were fuckin' awful, way too overwritten. Had to put it down and move onto something else.

Is it really that crap, or is it just me and I've gone off the Culture / Banks?

>> No.5393239

>>5391720
So damn true

>> No.5393266

I read 'Against a Dark Background' and thought "I wonder who the girl was that upset him?"
Then I read 'Complicity' and thought "well, his school chums are pissed"
Either of them would have been better at 1/3 the length

>> No.5395429

>>5393266
i observe that you all waited until he was well and truly dead before you start shitting on him. are you all that scared?

>> No.5395443

>>5395429
What the fuck, I didn't know he dead. I didn't care for his last few books, but I'm bummed now.

>> No.5395483
File: 121 KB, 800x407, Butlerian_Jihad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5395483

>>5395443
well, he's DEAD NOW. and you are SHITTING on his LEGACY.

there are plenty of WORSE sf writers out there who are STILL ALIVE. this is now a "Shit on the Dune prequels" thread.

>> No.5395826

/lit/ shat itself over him until he died.
Then they evaluated him.
This tells you more about the way the world of books works than it tells you about /lit/.

>> No.5395839

>>5395826
>he died
sauce?