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/lit/ - Literature

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6137536 No.6137536 [Reply] [Original]

Why did he go insane?

>> No.6137552

Dementia or syphilis.

>> No.6137561

The horse saw your mom's fat ass

>> No.6137562

>>6137536
Brain cancer most likely. The syphilis thing is sensationalist nonsense inconsistent with his symptoms.

>> No.6137603

Embraced by syphilitic Nietzschean.

>> No.6137618

>>6137536
Most like what >>6137562 said, but maybe Nietzsche just gave up.

>> No.6137621

Brain cancer, or, more likely and IMO, some kind of autoimmune neurodegenerative disease

>> No.6137631

>>6137536
The horse incident was an epiphany for Nietzsche where he realized his philosophy and everything he worked for was evil and wrong, and it drove him to irremediable madness.

>> No.6137640

>>6137631
This. His embrace of the horse was his return to Schopenhauer and maybe even to Christ.

>> No.6137643

He became an ardent ponyfag.

>> No.6137647

>>6137640
Nietzsche's philosophy was always about love.

>> No.6139945

>>6137647
How?

>> No.6139956

>>6137647
This. Christians never seen to grasp this.

>> No.6139966

>>6137640
>return to Schopenhauer
No, you're an idiot that hasn't read either of them

>> No.6139968

>>6139945
Love of mankind, of aesthetics, of life.

>> No.6139982

>>6139945
Love is beyond good and evil (he says this directly), love and gratitude are the opposite of ressentiment. Nietzsche is about a love of life, he even explaisn in Genealogy how the word for "bad" in Greek connoted a feeling of pity rather than contempt. Master morality is born from a love of life and the world, slave morality is born from a hatred of the world.

>> No.6140000

>>6139982
Okay, I get what you're saying, though a lot is still not clear to me.

One thing I'm hung up on: I know he says that a facet of slave morality is to "forgive" your enemies instead of taking revenge because you are too weak. That "loving your enemies" is actually really deep-seated ressentiment.

But what if I said, "No, I don't want to take revenge. Instead, I will forgive and love my enemies"

Would Nietzsche say I'm lying to myself and that I'm drugged up on slave reality?

>> No.6140016

>>6139982
Nietzsche was truly the greatest philosopher. I can't help but laugh and shake my head when I see people who don't understand him saying he's "an edgelord for teens" or some such nonsense.

>> No.6140032
File: 713 KB, 2024x2382, nietzsche_by_elin_stone.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6140032

>>6140016
>Nietzche was in favor of autocracy, aristocracy, the caste system, and the wholesale slaughter of much of the human population. While his ideas on religion's "slave morality" are pretty provocative and he makes some valid points, he represents the world in such dualistic terms that its hard not to cackle here at there as he presents arguments for "strong vs. weak" and brute force with an air of bombastic pseudo-sophistication. He was an aesthetician of violence and exploitation, he was pro-slavery and subjugation, and believed that all of humanity and animals are locked in an eternal struggle in which mercy and compassion had no place. He was right in that people are losing the concept of gods in the face of technology and science, but wrong in his belief that the strong have a right to dominate the weak and especially, dangerously wrong when he said that instincts are the most powerful form of intelligence. Instincts are very primitive and relying on snap judgments, emotions, and "intuition" makes people go horribly wrong most of the time. And while he would have disagreed with the Nazis on anti-semitism and racism, his entire philosophy gave birth to MANY of the ideologies of the Nazis. Namely, Nietzche was a collectivist, he believed in the magnificence and essentially of war, he believed in might and deception, he believed in the ridding of guilt and conscience when suppressing the weak as he believed their subjugation was a biological, Darwinian inevitability, he believed that trade and economic liberalism were damaging, he was anti-intellectual, believed in strong government, the ridding of conscience and replacement of it with the opposite values to form a new "non-slave" conscience, and he believed in state regulation of marriage and sex, and eugenics. The Nazis believed all of that and made the Hitler Youth read some of his work. Not much room to counter argue for the Nietzche apologists or circle jerkers, you're all just angsty fags.

Hey listen, I'm not trying to bait or troll or whatever. I genuinely want a refutation for the points made in this post (it was in a Nietzsche thread from a few days ago).

>> No.6140043

>>6137536
Reminder that the true N. is the one rejecting Schopenhauer and Wagner.

>> No.6140057

>>6140000
No, he says that superficial "forgiveness" out of weakness, and resenting it, is slave morality. To forgive out of will to power is called magnanimity, and Nietzsche considers that a virtue of strength.

>> No.6140067

>>6140057
Thank you. That answers my question and I'm happy to hear that he thought that. In which book does he primarily speak of magnanimity?

All I have read is The Antichrist and thus the only other Nietzsche information I have to go on is /lit/-derived.

>> No.6140086

"a virtue of strength," is a great explanation. Nietzsche is about strength, not selfishness. To him there is a large difference. In fact, selfishness to Nietzsche in the Stirner sense would be just as slave moralistic as Christianity (he says the anarchist and the Christian are the same in Antichrist).

>> No.6140087

>>6140067
His main work on morals is found in Beyond Good and Evil, and On the Genealogy of Morals.

Antichrist was him summarising these in purposefully controversial terms.

>> No.6140095

>>6137536
b/c he was lonely

>> No.6140098

>>6140067
The Gay Science, and Beyond Good and Evil.

Magnanimity is the opposite of pettiness. It was a virtue among the Greeks, which is probably where Nietzsche gets it. A good example is Themistocles, who appealed to an old enemy for help when he was being hunted (this is related in Thucydides). Themistocles appeals to magnanimity on his enemy's part, since Themistocles is now weak and to show spite would now be petty; his enemy consequently helps him escape from the country.

>> No.6140110

>>6140095
It might be...

>> No.6140121

I love Nietzsche. I don't mean I really enjoy his writing, I mean the man himself. I love him. He may be the kindest most sensitive yet courageous man I've ever known. He is my brother.

>> No.6140126

>>6140032
>Nietzche was in favor of autocracy, aristocracy, the caste system
First off, it's bad form to assume every political system except our very recent own is Pure Sin and unredeemable.
>and the wholesale slaughter of much of the human population
I'd like a citation for that.
>he represents the world in such dualistic terms that its hard not to cackle here at there as he presents arguments for "strong vs. weak"
Actually, he says most moralities mix elements from both of the examples he produces.
>He was an aesthetician of violence and exploitation, he was pro-slavery and subjugation
see my note on political systems.
>believed that all of humanity and animals are locked in an eternal struggle in which mercy and compassion had no place
wrong. much of his metaphysics is about the naturalistic insight that there are no absolutes and opposites, mercy and domination are therefore different manifestations of the same drive.
>He was right in that people are losing the concept of gods in the face of technology and science, but wrong in his belief that the strong have a right to dominate the weak
Read any summary of God is Dead..
>dangerously wrong when he said that instincts are the most powerful form of intelligence. Instincts are very primitive and relying on snap judgments, emotions, and "intuition" makes people go horribly wrong most of the time.
Try any of his work on epistemology.
>Nietzche was a collectivist, he believed in the magnificence and essentially of war, he believed in might and deception, he believed in the ridding of guilt and conscience when suppressing the weak as he believed their subjugation was a biological, Darwinian inevitability
This is descending into satire but I'll just say that he in fact believes Darwins theory favored the weak masses over the strong few, and that the latter are lucky happenings across time.
> he believed that trade and economic liberalism were damaging, he was anti-intellectual, believed in strong government, the ridding of conscience and replacement of it with the opposite values to form a new "non-slave" conscience, and he believed in state regulation of marriage and sex, and eugenics.
See political note. And any serious work on recent Germany history and Nietzsche's relation to the nazis.

>> No.6140127

>>6140032
There were a lot of points made in that, and I may come back and try to address them, but for now what I'll say is that whoever wrote that hasn't read Nietzsche but read about him. Right now I feel how I imagine Christians to feel when they're confronted with arguments by atheists who have read criticisms of Christianity but haven't read the bible, so they wind up using a few quotes from the bible, taking them literally to support their arguments. The Christian, when confronted with these arguments, may seem bewildered, and that's not because the atheist made such a brilliant point that's making them reconsider everything, but because the atheist is clearly unfamiliar with Christianity and his worldview is so drastically different that the Christian can sense that any discussion would be fruitless, as both of them would be talking over each other.

>> No.6140142

>>6140127
Spot on. That sounds like New Atheist critique of Christianity specifically though. But scholars like Nietzsche and Overbeck knew the bible better than most Christians.

>> No.6140143

>>6140142
Yeah, I had the New Atheists in mind, not Nietzsche, Overbeck, or even Russell.

>> No.6140190

Seems like a good thread to ask this: does anyone have this quotation from Nietzsche or that people have attributed to him that makes claims about a 'transition' period for women into something more like men. I think he claims something to the effect that the transition period would be most horrible.

I remember reading it on here but one would have to be a fool to take it as fact.

>> No.6140194

>>6140190
?*

>> No.6140201

Is there any book or information about the period where nietzsche was mad, any comments that he made or something like that, even if they're just nonsense

>> No.6140208

>>6140190
>>6140194
>Human, All Too Human 425:
Women`s period of storm and stress. In the three or four civilized European countries, one can in a few centuries educate women to be anything one wants, even men--not in the sexual sense, of course, but certainly in every other sense. At some point, under such an influence, they will have taken on all male virtues and strengths, and of course they will also have to take male weaknesses and vices into the bargain. This much, as I said, one can bring about by force. But how will we endure the intermediate stage it brings with it, which itself can last a few centuries, during which female follies and injustices, their ancient birthright, still claim predominance over everything they will have learned or achieved? This will be the time when anger will constitute the real male emotion, anger over the fact that all the arts and sciences will be overrun and clogged up by shocking dilettantism; bewildering chatter will talk philosophy to death; politics will be more fantastic and partisan than ever; society will be in complete dissolution because women, the preservers of the old custom, will have become ludicrous in their own eyes, and will be intent on standing outside custom in every way. For if women had their greatest power in custom, where will they not have to reach to achieve a similar abundance of power again, after they have given up custom?

>>6140201
There's a clip of him on youtube.

>> No.6140605
File: 55 KB, 625x626, 1423166822468.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6140605

>>6140032

>> No.6140648

He crossed his morals and fucked a prostitute.
God fucked him over before sleeping.

>> No.6140653

He realized he was just a shoddy rip off of Schopenhauer

>> No.6140884

He was the only one sane in the old world for him. Also the sickness didt allow him to acomplish all his objectives in life. He felt miserable and refugie in his ideas
>>6137640
return to Schopenhauer and even christ.
No. Never. Thats what he talkd about all his life

>> No.6140985

>>6140032
Nice pasta. Do you please have some sacue to it?

>> No.6141019

>>6137643
One of the better responses in the thread.

>> No.6141097

Sulfozinum
You're welcome

>> No.6141137

>>6140208
Thanks

>> No.6141229

>>6140032
sounds like the pasta of someone who hasn't read nietzsche

>> No.6141840

Would Nietzsche advocate the death of the sick and the weak? Say, would he want retards and cerebral palsy sufferers to be exterminated/banished?

For example, I feel like he says that here:

>"The invalid is a parasite on society. In a certain state it is indecent to go on living. To vegetate on in cowardly dependence on physicians and medicaments... ought to entail the profound contempt of society. Physicians, in their turn, ought to be the communicators of this contempt - not prescriptions, but every day a fresh dose DISGUST with their patients... We have no power to prevent ourselves from being born: but we can rectify this error - for it is sometimes an error. When one DOES AWAY WITH oneself one does the most estimable thing possible: one thereby almost deserves to live."

>> No.6142103

>>6141840
>agree

I despise people with disabilities.
It is not me trying to be edgy. I always have, since childhood.

I find it most bothersome when around me someone is dying. Like epileptics passing out and hitting their heads on the ground or swallowing their tongues. I'd rather let them die than bother helping them; good thing for them that there is always someone else nearby when such things happen.

A classmate from high school got into a car accident and she is paralysed now. Some girls made a big ass campaign to raise money for surgery and rehabilitation. Absolutely disgusting.

If something ever happened to me and I became that useless I would want to kill myself and the last thing I would want was for people to raise pity and money for me.
I have always supported euthanasia and partly eugenics. The human race will not advance further by producing feebler children and stronger drugs.
I know, I suck.

>> No.6142121

>>6141840

If you knew the first thing about him, you'd know he was an invalid for most of his adult life. He was literally a NEET after he got too ill to continue his professorship.

>> No.6142150

>>6140126

BTFO

Get lost shitposter McGee

>> No.6142158

>>6142121
Yeah I knew that you condescending dipshit. That doesn't invalidate him thinking that the sick and the weak were mostly useless. Obviously, even though he was sick, he was, probably in his own eyes, offering something to the world with his craft. He was always producing content until he went full vegetable.

>> No.6142181

>>6141840

I couldn't agree more. 50 percent of the average person's total medical expenses are incurred in the last months of life.

My mother works as a nurse in for palliative care agency. She sees people in the absolutely worst, most shameful state of existence. It takes a woman's heart to not grow disgusted at these people. She is constantly remarking how elderly people with literally nothing left to live for, and who are terminally ill, cling desperately to life for me reason other than terror of death. The patient's families are often even worse, unable to accept and process the fact that their loved one is about to die. The whole thing strikes me as being an enormous circus of pathetic sentiments.

Again and again, my mother expresses to us the wish that she will never live to the age where she is helpless and hopelessly ill.

>> No.6142188

>>6142150
McGee?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=RTi-p9KAkUs

>> No.6142195

>>6142103
Fuck, I tend to agree with that, while I would probably not go so far to say that paralysed normal people or similar cases shouldn't be helped. In my faggot ass nordic country all kinds of disable people are kept up on the taxpayers money and we're not talking about some low wages, we're taking a lot of money going to the people who keep care of them (fucking failed language teachers or people who couldn't even become some kind of high school teachers) and even 'paychecks' for the retarded/disabled people so they can keep a normal lifestyle. It's just a huge burden on society, and while there is no easy solution I think if society were a little bit more 'tougher' like i.e. Spartans, we could probably weed this shit out of mankind in the next thousand years.

Yes, I'm mad.

>> No.6142212

>>6142195
Your sentiments may not remain the same, if you become ill or disabled.

>> No.6142214

>>6142195

Sweden, is that you?

>> No.6142254

>>6142212
I should have been more specific. I was rather referring to the large amount of people born with mental handicaps or similar cases. For example, the number of "people" with Down's Syndrome is staggering, and serves no gain for the society. Parents decide out of some abstract moral superiority to have these kids just to put them in a institutionalized home and visit them every one week. I know of other cases where it's not exactly Down's syndrome but similar mental handicaps or where an injury caused the recipient to lose most of their "intelligence" if I may use that word, it would have been just better to end their suffering.

Although a similar case could be made for the people who are terminally ill (but get to live enough years for their parents to get feels) or those people who are born with crippled muscles/no movement abilities (I have no idea what that syndrome is called).

>> No.6142257

>>6139968
This

>> No.6142263

>>6142195
>are you Funland ?

True
Even though my intentions are, before these on a society level, on a personal, autistic one. Personal dislike and social pressure to save people who you beleive should die if they start dying in front of you.

Also, wasting that much time and money for someone who has had an accident ruins society morale, it does not enhance it.
People beleive that they can do anything and if they get rekt some1 will raise 1b for them and save them.
People think they are superman.
And such events should serve the purpose of fables to teach people not to be reckless and not to make them feel that whatever happens they will be fine.

>> No.6142283
File: 13 KB, 200x274, russell.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6142283

Bertrand Russell utterly dismantles Nietzsche.

>He (Nietzsche) condemns Christian love because he thinks it is an outcome of fear: I am afraid my neighbor may injure me, and so I assure him that I love him. If I were stronger and bolder, I should openly display the contempt for him which of course I feel. It does not occur to Nietzsche as possible that a man should genuinely feel universal love, obviously because he himself feels almost univeral hatred and fear, which he would fain disguise as lordly indifference. His "noble" man -- who is himself in day-dreams -- is a being wholly devoid of sympathy, ruthless, cunning, cruel, concerned only with his own power...

>It never occurred to Nietzsche that the lust for power, with which he endows his superman, is itself an outcome of fear. Those who do not fear their neighbors see no necessity to tyrannize over them. Men who have conquered fear have not the frantic quality of Nietzsche's "artist-tyrant" Neros, who try to enjoy music and massacre while their hearts are filled with dread of the inevitable palace revolution. I will not deny that, partly as a result of his teaching, the real world has become very much like his nightmare, but that does not make it any the less horrible...

>I dislike Nietzsche because he likes the contemplation of pain, because he erects conceits into a duty, because the men whom he most admires are conquerors, whose glory is cleverness in causing men to die. But I think the ultimate argument against his philosophy, as against any unpleasant but internally self-consistent ethic, lies not in an appeal to facts, but in an appeal to the emotions. Nietzsche despises universal love; I feel it the motive power to all that I desire as regards the world. His followers have had their innings, but we may hope that it is coming rapidly to an end. (pages 767-773, A History of Western Philosophy)

>> No.6142305

>>6142283

Should have stuck to mathematics, but Wiggy blew him the fuck out in that too.

Russell wasn't so much a philosopher as a philosophical academic. This is why he focused on the history of other thinkers rather than creating original ideas.

Regurgitating Christian mores is not philosophy.

>> No.6142312

>>6142283
That is a probably the most pathetic interpretation of Nietzsche I've ever seen from someone who is widely read.. Just another reason not to read proto-Richard Dawkins.

>> No.6142319

>>6142305
>>6142312
You're not refuting anything he said.

>> No.6142326

>>6142283
>analytic philosophy

>> No.6142361

>>6142158

I don't know the context of the quote, but you cannot even separate a book of Nietzsche's from his body of work and hope to understand it. You commit a greater error by selectively editing a single quote of his and treating it as an expression of a doctrine. Much of his writings are fish hooks and exaggerations designed to arouse readers.

>> No.6142408

>>6142319

Because none of it is accurate. Russell had already made his conclusions about Nietzsche long before he undertook to study him.

He disliked the the conclusions and set to undermining them in the typical fashion, namely by slandering the psychological drives behind them.

>> No.6143713

>tfw literally the actual ubermensch

damn

>> No.6143725

God punished his ass for talking shit.

>> No.6143728

Genius and insanity are the same thing

>> No.6143757

>>6143728
WHOA ANON THAT'S DEEP

DID YOU KNOW THAT EYES ARE THE WINDOW INTO THE SOUL?

>> No.6143794

>>6143757
yes, I know indeed, do you like Paulo Coelho too?

>> No.6144102

women

>> No.6144963

>>6141840
>>>"The invalid is a parasite on society. In a certain state it is indecent to go on living. To vegetate on in cowardly dependence on physicians and medicaments... ought to entail the profound contempt of society. Physicians, in their turn, ought to be the communicators of this contempt - not prescriptions, but every day a fresh dose DISGUST with their patients... We have no power to prevent ourselves from being born: but we can rectify this error - for it is sometimes an error. When one DOES AWAY WITH oneself one does the most estimable thing possible: one thereby almost deserves to live."
The view on illnesses and drugs should be this : you can take drugs to 'cure' an illness as long as you know it is pointless to take them.

>> No.6144966

>>6143794
Who doesn't?!

>> No.6144978

>>6143725
:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Funny brah, no honestly thanks for making my hour today of the 15th of February 2015, 9 am.

>> No.6144990

The horse pososssed him.
Have ya fellows not seen The Turin Horse? The answer is there.

>> No.6144996

http://www.thenietzschechannel.com/correspondence/eng/nlett-1889.htm

>> No.6145501

>>6137536
The account about him helping the horse came from some Italian newspaper decades after his death. There's no evidence of it really happening anywhere. I wish people would learn this and stop posting bullshit artwork about it.

>> No.6145709

>>6145501
The legend in itself is interesting, regardless if it's true of not.

Like Marie Antoinette and cake.

>> No.6146116

Optimists who delude themselves long enough tend to come crashing down.

>> No.6146728

>>6142283
russel's chapter on Nietzsche is a joke
>he didn't build his own abstruse philosophical system from the ground up
>he, uh, he's not nice and utilitarian
>if I were Buddha I would say "you're mean because I'm Buddha"
it very nearly devalues the whole book

>> No.6146854

>>6145501
prove that he never hugged a horse. go on. show all your work.

>> No.6146870
File: 9 KB, 230x230, 1417909404249.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6146870

He realized that his writings were unfalsifiable, opinionated rantings devoid of inherent truth - therefore, not philosophy.
>continentals

>> No.6146902

>>6146854
prove that u don't suck dick

>> No.6146942

>>6146116
>pessimists lacking the strength to pursue evidence
No surprise. >>6145501

>> No.6146967

>>6142103
*tips fedora*

>> No.6146983

>>6141840
>>6144963
Nietzsche's error here is that he does not account for the fact that the most physically broken person could potentially have the greatest mind, and that the mentally deficient are the best fit for the most menial jobs.

He advocates the contempt of invalids by society not out of utility for the community, but out of pure edginess.

>> No.6147015

>>6137536
Just realised that no one said the real answer yet. Brain cancer was closed but he in fact suffered from a hereditary stroke disorder on his father's side.

>> No.6147028

>>6146870
>religion of the falsifiable
>inherent truth
>lack of skepticism
I don't take sides but its this kind of faith what you criticise? Nietzsche is more like the pragmatists than the continentals. Same way Wittgenstein isnt pure analytic.

>> No.6147042

>>6146983
don't think that's his error considering he himself was physically challenged.

>> No.6147212

>>6137536
because suffering is fucking great, he was like getting stronger 'n shit