/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.7131129]

was he right about harry potter?
>[Rowling's] prose style, heavy on cliche, makes no demands upon her readers.
>How to read "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone"? Why, very quickly, to begin with, and perhaps also to make an end. Why read it? Presumably, if you cannot be persuaded to read anything better, Rowling will have to do.

>...I feel a discomfort with the Harry Potter mania, and I hope that my discontent is not merely a highbrow snobbery, or a nostalgia for a more literate fantasy to beguile (shall we say) intelligent children of all ages. Can more than 35 million book buyers, and their offspring, be wrong? Yes, they have been, and will continue to be for as long as they persevere with Potter.

>The cultural critics will, soon enough, introduce Harry Potter into their college curriculum, and The New York Times will go on celebrating another confirmation of the dumbing-down it leads and exemplifies.

link to the full text : https://web.ics.purdue.edu/~rebeccal/comp/108f10/Assignments/BloomArticle.pdf

[Anonymous No.7131141]

dude, who gives a shit, it's for kids and unintelligent girls. part of being an adult is tolerating fellow adults who have the interets of schoolchildren

[Anonymous No.7131150]

>>7131129
>even Bloom is getting audience pussy

[The cats No.7131152]

>>7131141
>part of being an adult is that only you are expected to actually be an adult

top jej

[Anonymous No.7131163]

Let's be honest: What is the virtue of Harry Potter?

Its themes? Its characters? Its plotting? The language itself?

No. It's easy to read and an easy sell to children.

[Anonymous No.7131166]

>>7131129
literature is purely entertainment, philosophy a bit less.

[Anonymous No.7131183]

>>7131163

it's a very, very good story for children of overcoming adversity.

i'm >>7131141

[Anonymous No.7131188]

>>7131129
sorta. fluff has always flown off the shelves, rowling's wide readership is no aberration. that her prose makes no demands on readers is part of why it is so popular.

i disagree with bloom insofar as i don't think prose needs to make demands on the reader. i myself and others don't need to be reading extremely dense, complex, and esoteric literature, sometimes i want something light and easy. they are different kinds of pleasure.

[Anonymous No.7131191]

>>7131141
>adult xDDD
Stop spooking.
>>7131163
u candu anne thing

[Anonymous No.7131195]

>>7131183
What story doesn't involve overcoming adversity?

Harry was rich, "the chosen one," well-liked by basically everyone, and he continually got sweet magic items that put him above the rest. It's like watching a cartoon unfold in prose.

[Anonymous No.7131205]

>>7131163
As far as children's literature/YA goes Harry Potter is pretty good. It's nothing of the Sublime that Bloom is probably looking for, but the Harry Potter series is on the whole an adequately written story with decent characters in a fun but not too complex world doing standard but enjoyable adventure stuff. Shit, HP is probably better than most literature aimed at adults.

[Anonymous No.7131207]

Man, Bloom is really withering away. His weight, his hair, his face (he looked sort of sad before too, but not like this). Guy probably won't make it to 90.

[The cats No.7131218]

>>7131188
He isn't talking about prose you memer. He's talking about the cliched writing and hand-holding of the reader and weak themes.

I want to say he's being overly critical and that she's creative and it's just a fun story but the veneration of Harry Potter culture by 20-70 year olds suggests he's not.

[Anonymous No.7131221]

>>7131129
>The cultural critics will, soon enough, introduce Harry Potter into their college curriculum
as long as this doesn't happen, it doesn't matter, but it most likely will.

[Anonymous No.7131224]

>>7131207
>Man, Bloom is really withering away. His weight, his hair, his face
everything but his sweet plump dicksucking lips

[Anonymous No.7131234]

>>7131129
Holy shit, that is scary Halloween mask

[Anonymous No.7131247]

I read Harry Potter as a kid but I still went on to read literature. I'm not too sure what to think though, it didn't seem that hard to pick up the other stuff.

[Anonymous No.7131249]

>>7131163
its a great story that was perhaps stretched a bit too far. sparked imaginations of many.

[Anonymous No.7131256]

>>7131163
Naruto has more 'complex' themes and messages than HP.

[Anonymous No.7131258]

>>7131166
why not. its not like we believe every philosophical system we learn about. Its about getting lost in a world of thought

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it"

[Anonymous No.7131274]

>>7131218
>He isn't talking about prose you memer

literally the first thing the OP quoted from the article is

>[Rowling's] prose style, heavy on cliche, makes no demands upon her readers

do you even read?

[Anonymous No.7131324]

>>7131183
>it's a very, very good story for children of overcoming adversity.
lmao

[Anonymous No.7131345]

>>7131256
>Naruto
Stop

[Anonymous No.7131355]

>>7131256
>anime

[Anonymous No.7131359]

>>7131345
They're on pretty much the same level. One Piece and Hunter x Hunter are better though

[Anonymous No.7131364]

>>7131355
Relevant to discuss in a thread about a book for children

[Anonymous No.7131369]

Could Voldemort defeat Uchiha Madara?

[Anonymous No.7131371]

>>7131355
>on 4chan
mein gott!

[Anonymous No.7131376]

>>7131371
NIce, another anime that's just as deep as Harry Potter

[Anonymous No.7131383]

What does bloom sound like? For some reason I imagine him having Peter O'Toole's voice.

[Anonymous No.7131388]

>>7131383
just watch a youtube video

[Anonymous No.7131400]

>>7131376
Madoka quotes Faust, it's already infinitely more /lit/erary than HP

[Anonymous No.7131401]

>>7131364
kek

[Anonymous No.7131410]

>>7131400
Harry Potter has a number of allusions to literature as well, though mostly ancient and medieval

[Anonymous No.7131412]

>>7131183
>it's a very, very good story for children of overcoming adversity.
Can I use this quote in my book report tomorrow? Oral, of course.

[Anonymous No.7131417]

>>7131400
see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter_influences_and_analogues

[Anonymous No.7131425]

>>7131412
>Oral, of course

[Anonymous No.7131430]

Why even write anymore fantasy novels when J.R.R. Tolkien already wrote the best?

[Anonymous No.7131444]

>>7131430

F-for fun?

[Anonymous No.7131454]

>>7131430
He and R. E. Howard ruined fantasy by turning them all into dumb adventure books. The best fantasy novels were written by Lewis Carroll

[Anonymous No.7131472]

>>7131454

b-but anon, Middle Earth is the ultimate not-Europe translating the plight of the Western Men against the Evil forces plotting the end of life as we know it

[Anonymous No.7131508]

>>7131163
well, the first few books are a modern Christian fable, subversively of course.
>Harry = Jesus
>Hagrid = St. Peter
both are known as "keeper of the keys", and peter was described as an oaf. plus, he meets harry on the rock in the sea, and πετρος was the rock on which the church was built.
>Snape = St. Paul
one who, in his past life, persecuted the believers, but had a conversion later in life
>Hedwig = Holy Spirit
the one connection for harry from the muggle world to the wizarding world

not to mention the seven trials of the first book mirror the seven stages of dante's purgatorio, shakespeare's ages of man, and the "i am" statements of jesus christ

it's pretty allegorical, tbh

[Anonymous No.7131514]

>>7131129
I've read every Harry Potter book at least once and I agree with Bloom. My parents let me read that sort of trash but were also careful to introduce me to better authors. By the time the third or fourth book came out I was way more into Kipling and Melville but finished the series just to see what happened. It's not like it's a huge time commitment. His most spot-on criticism is that she leans on cliches harder than just about any author I've read, which does indeed allow you to read it smoothly without engaging beyond the surface, as there isn't much else to engage with.

[Anonymous No.7131596]

>>7131256
Naruto has shit writing and the setting, while interesting, much less interesting than Potter's. Still HP is closer to Naruto than great literature.

[Anonymous No.7131609]

>>7131400
Japs love quoting shit, it doesn't mean much. Though there's /lit/erary anime, as well as the anime deeper than HP

[Anonymous No.7131673]

Harry Potter is quite simply the worst thing to happen to literature ever. Its forced profundity has caused millions of people all over the world to force themselves to like what is quite simply nothing more than an exercise in plagiarism.

Rowling has no idea what she is doing here. Her books jump around with little to no sense of unity. The great authors of the world create a series of events that contain clarity of information, something Rowling couldn't bet her life on. What is the purpose of what is going on here? is there any coherent message? I have heard suggestions that it is Rowling's message about mortality, but why is that? does she even know?

This is "LORD OF THE RINGS" for the MTV generation. Pure trash. Nobody actually likes this series, they just like to be seen liking it

[Anonymous No.7131817]

hes right, but hes also very rude

[Anonymous No.7131819]

>>7131817
I don't think he's rude.

[Anonymous No.7131822]

>>7131673

Its unlooked-for mass appeal and numerous flaws notwithstanding, The Lord of the Rings is a vastly superior work to Harry Potter.

[Anonymous No.7131833]

>>7131673
>Everything needs to be laid out for me in chronological order because I'm brain damaged

[Anonymous No.7131863]

>>7131833
The Conan stories aren't laid out in chronological order either and Robert Howard catered to the brain damaged readership.

[Anonymous No.7131865]

>>7131819
i just wanted to post the pic

[Anonymous No.7131894]

>>7131129
>was he right about harry potter?
For 10 year olds reading them, no. For teens and older readers, Yes he's right.

[Anonymous No.7131975]

children's lit now:

In years to come, Harry would never quite remember how he had managed to get through his exams when he half expected Voldemort to come bursting through the door at any moment. Yet the days crept by, and there could be no doubt that Fluffy was still alive and well behind the locked door.

It was sweltering hot, especially in the large classroom where they did their written papers. They had been given special, new quills for the exams, which had been bewitched with an AntiCheating spell.

They had practical exams as well. Professor Flitwick called them one by one into his class to see if they could make a pineapple tapdance across a desk. Professor McGonagall watched them turn a mouse into a snuffbox — points were given for how pretty the snuffbox was, but taken away if it had whiskers. Snape made them all nervous, breathing down their necks while they tried to remember how to make a Forgetfulness potion.

children's lit then:

And he told stories, tracing with a finger in the dust, of the immense and sumptuous ritual of avalanche-guarded cathedrals; of processions and devil-dances; of the changing of monks and nuns into swine; of holy cities fifteen thousand feet in the air; of intrigue between monastery and monastery; of voices among the hills, and of that mysterious mirage that dances on dry snow. He spoke even of Lhassa and of the Dalai Lama, whom he had seen and adored.

Each long, perfect day rose behind Kim for a barrier to cut him off from his race and his mother-tongue. He slipped back to thinking and dreaming in the vernacular, and mechanically followed the lama's ceremonial observances at eating, drinking, and the like. The old man's mind turned more and more to his monastery as his eyes turned to the steadfast snows. His River troubled him nothing. Now and again, indeed, he would gaze long and long at a tuft or a twig, expecting, he said, the earth to cleave and deliver its blessing; but he was content to be with his disciple, at ease in the temperate wind that comes down from the Doon. This was not Ceylon, nor Buddh Gaya, nor Bombay, nor some grass-tangled ruins that he seemed to have stumbled upon two years ago. He spoke of those places as a scholar removed from vanity, as a Seeker walking in humility, as an old man, wise and temperate, illumining knowledge with brilliant insight. Bit by bit, disconnectedly, each tale called up by some wayside thing, he spoke of all his wanderings up and down Hind; till Kim, who had loved him without reason, now loved him for fifty good reasons. So they enjoyed themselves in high felicity, abstaining, as the Rule demands, from evil words, covetous desires; not over-eating, not lying on high beds, nor wearing rich clothes. Their stomachs told them the time, and the people brought them their food, as the saying is. They were lords of the villages of Aminabad, Sahaigunge, Akrola of the Ford, and little Phulesa, where Kim gave the soulless woman a blessing.

[Anonymous No.7132020]

>>7131975
children's lit now:
Zack is sitting at his stand in art class. He is mixing what appears to be "paint"...

Zack: There we go, perfect consistency. (has a spoonful of the mixture) Oh, man I love pudding!

London is sitting beside Zack. She has a mirror put on her canvas stand and is putting make up on her face.

London (scoffs): Wow. Beautiful...just one more little touch. (rubs in some make up)

Zack: London, this is not a make up class.

London: Yes, that's exactly what it is. I failed art last semester and they said I needed to take a make up class. (chuckles) Easy A!

Zack: No, London, what they meant was...

Before Zack can finish, London rubs the make up tool in his nose, and he begins to tremble...

Zack: No...achoo!

He sneezes a big blurt of the pudding onto his art canvas. The class lean back in disgust.

Zack (to London): Thanks a lot!


children's lit then:

What clashes here of wills gen wonts, oystrygods gaggin fishy-gods! Brékkek Kékkek Kékkek Kékkek! Kóax Kóax Kóax! Ualu Ualu Ualu! Quaouauh! Where the Baddelaries partisans are still out to mathmaster Malachus Micgranes and the Verdons cata- pelting the camibalistics out of the Whoyteboyce of Hoodie Head. Assiegates and boomeringstroms. Sod's brood, be me fear! Sanglorians, save! Arms apeal with larms, appalling. Killykill-killy: a toll, a toll. What chance cuddleys, what cashels aired and ventilated! What bidimetoloves sinduced by what tegotetab-solvers! What true feeling for their's hayair with what strawng voice of false jiccup! O here here how hoth sprowled met the duskt the father of fornicationists but, (O my shining stars and body!) how hath fanespanned most high heaven the skysign of soft advertisement! But was iz? Iseut? Ere were sewers? The oaks of ald now they lie in peat yet elms leap where askes lay. Phall if you but will, rise you must: and none so soon either shall the pharce for the nunce come to a setdown secular phoenish.

[Anonymous No.7132044]

>>7131975

How did mediocrity get so powerful?

[Anonymous No.7132212]

>>7131205
Being for children isn't an excuse as there is plenty of high quality children literature.

[Anonymous No.7132360]

>>7132044
because we think children are incapable of dealing with any level of stress, pain, or difficulty

'you can't hit a child just because he got a question wrong! that's disgusting! muh trauma'

'he told his daughter that she has to wear boy clothes just because she was born in a boy's body, that's emotional abuse.'

'you can't expect children to read hard literature! he's only 13! if he wants to read harry potter, at least he's reading. if we let him keep reading harry potter maybe he'll someday move on to reading harder stuff like George R R Martin and Stephen King'

'those asian parents that ask their children to do well in school and cultivate hobbies like playing the piano are just raising little robots who are going to hate them when they're older! letting my timmy watch the disney channel 6 hours a day is helping him develop his own personality and interests'

[Anonymous No.7132447]

i really doubt that reading these books as a kid is hurting anything

it's not as if the kids reading this would have read something better instead

[Anonymous No.7132462]

>>7132360
But gook children don't read literature either.

[Anonymous No.7132630]

>>7132360
Do you support #gamergate by any chance?

[Anonymous No.7132732]

>>7132630
no idea what you're talking about. video games are for re-res

[Anonymous No.7132815]

>>7132630
does this look like eight chan

[Anonymous No.7133177]

>>7132020
I think children would learn more from the Suite Life on Deck than from Finnegans Wake tbh

[Anonymous No.7133410]

why is he so cute though

[Anonymous No.7133453]

>>7131508
literally who cares. lewis and tolkein did it better.

[Anonymous No.7133569]

>>7133453
This. Not to mention the fact that there are so many god tier children's books and stories. Harry Potter has no right to exist.

[Anonymous No.7133694]

Its for children all the way to the last book and it shows.

[Anonymous No.7133719]

Just got his "best english poems" book, Bloom is truely based as fuck. I only read about 200 pages and my view on poetry has changed.

[Anonymous No.7133743]

>>7131817
What art is that?

[Anonymous No.7133795]

>>7132447
>i really doubt that reading these books as a kid is hurting anything

mediocre content in a critical development stage can do a lot of harm, as it sets a low threshold beforehand

[Anonymous No.7133798]

>>7132447
I don't enjoy reading because I was pampered by low effort books like HP

or I was doomed to be retarded

[Anonymous No.7133870]

>>7132020
I Kékkek'd

[Anonymous No.7133884]

>>7133795
but many weren't going to read without these books existing, that is mainly the type of person we are talking about

[Anonymous No.7134086]

>>7132447
Most people who read the books are critically handicapped in terms of literature if they are HP fans.

[Anonymous No.7134436]

>>7133719
Bloom is God-tier as an introduction to literature, IMO.

[Anonymous No.7134442]

>>7133719
Is it a compilation or a critique work ?

[Anonymous No.7134464]

>>7131129
He looks the way his writing sounds: sour.

[Anonymous No.7134468]

>>7134442
It's an anthology of poetry with brief critical introductions to each poet written by Bloom

[Anonymous No.7134494]

>>7134468
Would you recommend it ?

[Anonymous No.7134501]

>>7131221

Not as the subject of serious literary discussion. If your college has children's books on its reading lists then you are at a shitty school or taking a class in early education.

[Anonymous No.7134505]

>>7131454

I would disagree because he actually did a decent job gluing anglo-norse-etc. lore into a refreshing new narrative but I can't disagree because I tried reading it and giggled at how poorly it was written at least once per page. A shame, too.

[Anonymous No.7134528]

>>7131975

Kipling's story seems a bit overwritten for a kiddie's book. It's quite nice and everything but it is dated. 6/10

Rowling on the other hand is fresh and punchy with a great deal of humour and imagination. 10/10.

[Anonymous No.7134534]

>>7132447

You can't make a child into an avid reader or intellectual. If they want to read fantasy stories for children then there's no point in giving them Moby Dick. You have to come to literature on your own, or it's not worth anything. You can't be forced into loving it.

[Anonymous No.7134542]

>>7132360
>'those asian parents that ask their children to do well in school and cultivate hobbies like playing the piano are just raising little robots who are going to hate them when they're older!

what's sad is that even I said this about the asian students while I'm being told to play the piano an hour a day and learn french in 7th grade on my own time and do boyscouts and extracurricular math and computer science and art and cross country. I went to a family gathering where some cousins called me a robot behind my back lmao

now I sit in the library and read (almost) all day (when I'm not taking a quick shitposting break). Being a robot is fucking great

[Anonymous No.7134548]

>>7131400
Harry Potter book 7 opens with a quote from Aeschylus

[Anonymous No.7134550]

>>7134494
Yes, as it contains many of the best poems of the English language.

[Anonymous No.7134559]

>>7134550
ok nice ordering it as I type this

[Anonymous No.7134585]

>>7131166
there's no such thing as "pure entertainment," you ignorant slut

[Anonymous No.7134624]

>>7131975
>They had been given special, new quills for the exams, which had been bewitched with an AntiCheating spell.

please kill me

[Anonymous No.7134632]

>>7134542
I'm jealous

my parents didn't force me to do anything so I mostly just played video games

[Anonymous No.7134660]

>>7131163
"Love triumphs over all" is a constant theme across each book.

The broad virtues are tolerance and cooperation. It's pretty obvious.

[Anonymous No.7134670]

>>7134660
he's asking about the book's virtue, not the virtue it extolls

[Anonymous No.7134671]

>>7132630
>Do you support #gamergate by any chance?

Who doesn't?

[Anonymous No.7134673]

I think Harry Potter is excellent when you consider that it was written by an amateur for her daughter's amusement.

It's simple, engaging, and unchallenging, but it doesn't aim to be. Comparing Rowling to Dostoyevsky is as ridiculous as comparing Katy Perry to Mendelssohn.

[Anonymous No.7134674]

>>7134671
People who don't give a fuck about video games LOL

[Anonymous No.7134676]

>>7134674
Gamergate isn't about video games, it's about shitty journalism and nepotism.

[Anonymous No.7134678]

>>7134673
Maybe kids hsould be listening to (and learning to play) Mendelssohn instead of Katy Perry. Did you ever think of that?

[Anonymous No.7134681]

>>7134678

Can you name a single way in which the world would be a better place if they did?

[Anonymous No.7134684]

>>7134676
In the context of online reviews of video games. It only exists because some reviewer made some shitty indie game more popular than other shitty indie games

[Anonymous No.7134685]

>>7134681
People would enjoy better music.

[Anonymous No.7134686]

>>7134684
>It only exists because some reviewer made some shitty indie game more popular than other shitty indie games

More like certain people using sex as a tool to get better reviews for their games. Which clearly isn't ethical at all.

[Anonymous No.7134691]

>>7134671
people who worry that gamergaters are going to fuck up the vision, or >>7134674

it's sort of like "who doesn't support Occupy Wall Street?" which ought to have been, as it turns out, a lot of people.

I'm not anti-gamergate, but I'm anti- a lot of stuff I hear from them. I agree with them on some things: I don't like the excessive praise for 'progressive' (but not fun) games, nor do I like the way the whole narrative about games is being written by those journalists. But I also don't like throwing my voice in with plain misogynists (which is not to say antifeminists—I mean plain, uncomplicated woman-haters).

[Anonymous No.7134693]

>>7134686
I'm guessing "certain people" means "one or two attractive females" here

[Anonymous No.7134697]

>>7134550
I just ordered it. Thanks anon!

[Anonymous No.7134698]

>>7134691
>>7134686
>>7134684
>>7134674
>>7134676
>>7134671
>>7132815
>>7132630

THIS IS NOT A GAMERGATE THREAD

LET'S NOT GET A PERFECTLY GOOD HARRY BLOOMER THREAD DELETED

[Anonymous No.7134700]

>>7134691
Gamergate is stupid but there's ntohign wrong with hating women

[Anonymous No.7134704]

>>7134691
Yes, but the problem is that critique of how gaming reviews are being done and run, is being conflated with misogyny just because there was a woman in the center of things in this case, which is clearly retarded, and a symptom that people in popular culture actually believe that women simply cannot be bad people regardless of how they behave.

[Anonymous No.7134706]

>>7134704
This is actually scientifically proven btw: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E2%80%9CWomen_are_wonderful%E2%80%9D_effect

[Anonymous No.7134709]

>>7134704
>>7134700
>>7134706
see >>7134698

[Anonymous No.7134714]

>>7134709
Thread won't get deleted unless some butthurt faggot reports it with a bunch of proxies that they pay for because all of the free proxies are banned

[Anonymous No.7134716]

>>7134709
I don't give a shit if you don't want to talk about it.

[Anonymous No.7134734]

>>7134678
Why?

[Anonymous No.7134741]

>>7131975
jesus, that reads like fan fiction.

[Anonymous No.7134760]

>>7134734
Because it makes them more interesting.

[Anonymous No.7134800]

>>7134741
It basically is just decent-tier fanfiction.
Seriously - Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, the most reviewed Harry Potter fanfic at the moment, is genuinely better literature than the original books. It's still not good by any stretch of the imagination, but at least some thought went into it.

[Anonymous No.7134808]

>>7131129
>In an arbitrarily chosen single page--page 4--of the first Harry Potter book, I count seven cliches, all of the "stretch his legs" variety.

( from >>7131975 )
>In years to come
>the days crept by
>It was sweltering hot
>bursting through the door
>breathing down their necks

Fuck, Bloom is spot-on. A cliché is, itself, not always evil (imo)—but Rowling leans on them, and they supply most of her effects.

[Anonymous No.7134819]

>>7134808
There's a function on Microsoft Word to register cliches as incorrect grammar, which I find is great to have on when I write. It puts a green squiggle under them.

[Anonymous No.7134834]

>>7134800
>is genuinely better literature than the original books
oy vey. Methods of Rationality is the dumbest, most autistic thing possible, chock full of scientism:

> I, Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, do now claim this territory in the name of Science.

[Anonymous No.7134850]

>>7134834
Well, yeah. At least it's funny to read though.
And there's the occasional interesting character.

[Rosalind Hursthouse !!IJ+t51r+x08 No.7134851]

>>7134834
Also, Yudkowsky is a dumb retard who's convinced he's a genius. His high IQ hasn't managed to save him from a life of autistic faggotry. So there's that, too.

Actually, MoR was pretty entertaining for the first few chapters. But more like a novelty than anything else.

[Anonymous No.7134856]

>>7134850
It's no Legend of the 10 Elemental Masters, IMO.

[Anonymous No.7134873]

>>7134856
Whatty of the 10 elemental whats?

>>7134851
Novelty is more than what the original books had.

[Anonymous No.7134886]

>>7134873
A sui generis work of outsider fiction by an autistic shut-in. See for yourself: http://www.amazon.com/The-Legend-10-Elemental-Masters/dp/0615348130

[Anonymous No.7135139]

>>7133453
A lot of people don't consider Tolkien to be children's fare though.
>>7133694
Wow did you come to this brilliant conclusion independently?

[Anonymous No.7136430]

I think Bloom will be wrong about the Rowling's future, for this reason: he sees her reception as closely parallel to Tolkien's, and whereas his criticism of Rowling is pretty damning, his criticism of the Lord of the Rings is—not as damning. The things he hates about it are things that, though we may admit them, we are not all so disgusted by them.

"inflated, over-written, tendentious, and moralistic in the extreme."

Anyone who has the faintest sense of the current 'spirit of the age' will sense that Bloom's criticism seems to be intended for readers who shared in a sensibility that was passing. For the "inklings" that sensibility already seemed a momentary fashion; Lewis praised the very things which Bloom finds so awful:

". . . like lightning from a clear sky; as sharply different, as unpredictable in our age as the Songs of Innocence were in theirs. To say that in it heroic romance, gorgeous, eloquent, and unashamed, has suddenly returned at a period almost pathological in its anti-romanticism, is inadequate. To us, who live in that odd period, the return and the sheer relief of it is doubtless the important thing. But in the history of Romance itself--a history which stretches back to the Odyssey and beyond--it makes not a return but an advance or revolution: the conquest of new territory."

This was a group for whom moralism in the extreme was the novelty, inflation a technique with its own kind of beauty. Right or wrong, succeeding ages may find less (or more) to fault in moralism; "over-writing" in an age of under-writing may find generous critics when fashions change.

But on Rowling: "Her prose style, heavy on cliche, makes no demands upon her readers." Bloom argues (and he's right) that Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone is an unintelligent book which does not ask much of its reader. These flaws will be obvious in any age, to any sensibility (unless we predict, as I don't, a serious increase in general dullness).

[Anonymous No.7136493]

hes going to die soon isn't he

[Anonymous No.7136519]

He is always right

[Anonymous No.7136604]

>>7131195
>well-liked by basically everyone

Well, not really. I liked that aspect in the book, that everyone loved harry until they realized that he was a hack, then everyone starts to hate harry. Book 4 onward, harry is the underdog and he only has like 2-3 genuine friends.

[Anonymous No.7136638]

>>7136519
>Poe, Hemingway, Baldwin (I think?)
Who are the others?

[Anonymous No.7136654]

>>7136638
big nose is philip roth

[Anonymous No.7136660]

>>7136638
you got baldwin right

the girls are Willa Cather and Edith Wharton and possibly Delillo behind them but im not sure on that

[Anonymous No.7136705]

>>7136660
Why is one of them wearing a serafuku?

[Anonymous No.7136732]

>>7136705
they were probably based on the same design. They just never grew out of style in Japan

[Anonymous No.7136755]

>>7131129
is that butterfly?

[Anonymous No.7137266]

shit books aside would let her be my mom tbh

[Anonymous No.7137388]

>>7136493

He's not looking too good. Notice the Alert Necklace thing.

[Anonymous No.7137453]

>>7137266
Bloom?

[Anonymous No.7137460]

>>7137388
>Alert Necklace
its to ward off writers with no discernible talent

[Anonymous No.7137712]

>>7132212
What are the best that you know?

[Anonymous No.7138219]

>>7131221
http://www.csusm.edu/global/studyabroad/UK%20Harry%20Potter.html
https://www.dur.ac.uk/faculty.handbook/archive/module_description/?year=2013&module_code=EDUC2381
http://www.bestcollegesonline.com/blog/2011/07/18/15-fascinating-college-courses-for-the-ultimate-potter-scholar/

[Anonymous No.7138237]

>>7131256
Naruto went from stealthy ninjas using simple magic to an asspull-fest with the MC becoming literal ninja Jesus, fighting a zombie war, the world getting hypnotized by a man projecting his eyeball onto the moon, a string of big bads culminating in bigger bads resulting in beating up a moon goddess with a ball of gay sex, and some other bullshit I can't remember right now. As far as I'm aware Kishimoto undid every theme or message he initially aimed for by the end.

[Anonymous No.7138263]

It's one of the better series written for kids to get them interested in reading so that they will be more able and willing to read more mature stuff when they get older. You can't throw the greeks at a child and expect them to get anything but assfucked.

[Anonymous No.7138268]

>>7138263
the greeks themselves knew that sometimes a kid needed to be assfucked by his elders

[Anonymous No.7138289]

>>7137712
From what I used to read and still consider great, Aesop fables, Croatian tales from long ago, The Wild Horse, Narnia, Hobbit, children's bible (it was selected stories with pictures, pretty gud), Alice in wonderland, Pinocchio... There is a ton of good children literature, there is no excuse for poisoning your child with shit tier literature.

[Anonymous No.7138308]

>>7131129
no

[Anonymous No.7138378]

>In 2004 author Naomi Wolf wrote an article for New York Magazine accusing Harold Bloom of a sexual "encroachment" more than two decades earlier, by touching her thigh. She said that what she alleged Bloom did was not harassment, either legally or emotionally, and she did not think herself a "victim", but that she had harbored this secret for 21 years. Explaining why she had finally gone public with the charges, Wolf wrote, "I began, nearly a year ago, to try—privately—to start a conversation with my alma mater that would reassure me that steps had been taken in the ensuing years to ensure that unwanted sexual advances of this sort weren't still occurring. I expected Yale to be responsive. After nine months and many calls and e-mails, I was shocked to conclude that the atmosphere of collusion that had helped to keep me quiet twenty years ago was still intact—as secretive as a Masonic lodge."[50] When asked about the allegations in 2015, Bloom stated, "I refuse to even use the name of this person. I call her Dracula's daughter, because her father was a Dracula scholar. I have never in my life been indoors with Dracula's daughter. When she came to the door of my house unbidden, my youngest son turned her away. Once, I was walking up to campus, and she fell in with me and said, 'May I walk with you, Professor Bloom?' I said nothing."[51]

[Anonymous No.7138385]

http://time.com/3841452/10-questions-with-harold-bloom/

>Their effect upon the mind is not good. They do not enlarge and make the mind more keen and independent. Reading is not in that sense a democratic process. It’s elitist. It has to be elitist.

[Anonymous No.7138393]

http://time.com/3841452/10-questions-with-harold-bloom/

>He is philologically trained in the history of the language, and in Greek and in Latin, and the other tongues that contribute to the apprehension of English and American literature, poetry. And in particular, he has an incredible passion, a fierce love for the real splendor of the sublime. I am not Tolstoy. But I have a love for books. They have become part of me.

[Anonymous No.7138419]

>>7138378
Stone cold gangsta.

[Anonymous No.7138726]

>>7138378
Wolf always came off as kinda nutty. Wouldn't be surprised if she made the story up, but also would not be surprised if Bloom is lying out his ass.

[Anonymous No.7139407]

>>7137388
oh man

[Anonymous No.7139408]

Bump

[Anonymous No.7139794]

>>7131425
what is this from?

[Anonymous No.7140830]

>>7131163
The characters and world is fun and theres a real sense of bonding to everyone like you're the hidden 4th member of the trio. The plot is easy to follow along with and clearly not asking you to strain yourself, just watch it play out.

Its an entertainment book. Its not meant to be anything more. I don't get how /lit/ has so many fists shoved up their ass that they forget that people do things for fun.