What does /lit/ think of Buddhism? Looks good to me

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Anonymous Mon Sep 21 23:09:43 2015 No.7145815 [Reply] [Original]

What does /lit/ think of Buddhism? Looks good to me

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Mon Sep 21 23:12:14 2015 No.7145820 File: 1.03 MB, 500x979, Epicurus nature.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7145815 It's okay. Flawed as anything, but more malleable than that middle eastern crap. Zen is nice.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 21 23:15:28 2015 No.7145824 you can read Hesse and get what you need from that, save you a lot of time.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 21 23:22:51 2015 No.7145835 >>7145820 how is it flawed? there are quite a few branches of Buddhism, are you sure you aren't just thinking of an overgeneralized version?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 21 23:26:04 2015 No.7145844 but you still got to remember there is a God and you need to follow his orders.

« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Tue Sep 22 01:02:22 2015 No.7146087

>>7145835
I suppose.
Probably why I pick and choose parts of it, such as Zen, by way of Alan Watts, or Bruce Lee and Kung Fu bits. I prefer vivid ataraxia to trying to reach nirvana/soul-death

>>7145844
There have been no orders given. God's likelihood is near nil now. Shew.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 01:36:19 2015 No.7146150 >>7145844 No we need to help god achieve enlightenment. Have you read any buddhist writings? Remember, the more powerful we are, the more foolish we become.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 01:45:05 2015 No.7146177 >>7146087 thats funny because to me Gods likelyhood is near mil (one million percent out of one hundred)

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Tue Sep 22 01:47:51 2015 No.7146182 File: 145 KB, 320x240, U gonna get diddled.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7146177 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfthzU3V4zo

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 01:48:23 2015 No.7146185 Would you rather have Buddhism towards Nirvana or Schopenhauer-slapdash-Buddhism towards the Big Nothing?

>>	〖 ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ 〗 !ABC9.apel. Tue Sep 22 01:52:21 2015 No.7146200 File: 308 KB, 1122x1586, 1428329139951.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Its the nihilism of the east. It sounds good for numbing your pains but its life denying and what is the fun in that?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 01:53:35 2015 No.7146205 I haven't read much on Buddhism but it's fucking spooked shit. Trying to kill your ego is the most spooked thing you can do and building a religion on that is stupid and foolish. Buddhism is just a suicide cult.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 01:54:27 2015 No.7146208

I've studied it for a while and still don't see how it isn't nihilistic.
Most of the Buddha's precepts are put in the negative.
Nirvana may be its goal, but "nothing arises but suffering," so Nirvana can only be qualified in the negative as the cessation of suffering.
The full emptiness sounds like something that gets peddled to Western Buddhists because they can't handle the fact that the fabric of the entire universe in Buddhism is dukkha.

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Tue Sep 22 01:54:51 2015 No.7146210 File: 521 KB, 1024x725, Pippi's eating habits.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7146185 It all amounts to the same thing in the end. But I would rather enjoy myself till then

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 01:58:13 2015 No.7146218

>>7145815
This always triggers someone, but Buddhism is life-denying. There are desires, delusions and aversions worth getting rid of, but some people take it too far and just become confused and defensive about their confusion. It's much better to stay in touch with certain desires and temper them with self discipline than to leave behind the things that compel you to care for your family.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 02:03:58 2015 No.7146227 Buddhism is one of the shittest religions going. 'Just meditat into nothingness and chill dude xD' yeah real deep shit. There's a reason why Christianity is far more respected than that dumb shit.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 02:08:13 2015 No.7146235 >>7146227 >There's a reason why Christianity is far more respected than that dumb shit. That being, you are from a western country. Goddamn, anon. Get the fuck out of this board or just shut the hell up.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 02:09:09 2015 No.7146237 Nah. I'm not a white loser looking to be edgy and exotic.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 02:11:32 2015 No.7146241

>>7146235
Buddhism has literally no texts supporting it (there's probably a few ancient ones but I doubt they are as good as Aquinas) aside from contemporary woo woo shit. Christianity has years of theological backing and scholastic intelligence.

Buddhism has no complexity, all it is is 'Just chill out maaaan'. Whereas Christianity has in depth frameworks and amazing ideas.

If you still think Buddhism is worth a toss after reading this then go smoke some weed.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 02:12:44 2015 No.7146242 >>7146237 >being this spooked

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 02:14:00 2015 No.7146245 >>7146235 Hindus are more than buddhists. It says much about your religion if the pagan of that area are still the most respected religion. Buddhism is a failure of a higher-religion. Jesus probably found this out when he was wandering about.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 02:17:29 2015 No.7146252
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>>7146241
Where did all these ignorant idiots come from? Was this thread linked to on /pol/? If you knew anything about buddhism you wouldn't say a 'few'. Do you have any idea how much larger the Buddhist canon is when compared to Christianity?
inb4 someone get's triggered by pic related, I did it to anger you hypocrites

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 02:19:50 2015 No.7146255 >>7146252 >Buddhism has loads of Texts Rephrases of 'Just chill dude xD' are not texts. I'm simply in defence of my Catholic faith, me browsing /pol/ has nothing to do with that.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 02:28:28 2015 No.7146273

>>7146255
>Rephrases of 'Just chill dude xD' are not texts.
How do you know that? Seriously, have you ever read any of these texts which you seem to be an expert on? I feel as if I'm being baited here, but I know how arrogant you /pol/tards can be and I'd love to see you admit that you don't know anything.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 02:32:13 2015 No.7146278 >>7146245 Paganism is better than shit tier Christshit

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 02:36:14 2015 No.7146284 >>7146208 >Nirvana can only be qualified in the negative as the cessation of suffering. no, you choose to begin with no suffering, but you can also begin with happiness also, to be nihilistic does not mean anything

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 02:38:39 2015 No.7146287
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>>7146218
>It's much better to stay in touch with certain desires and temper them with self discipline than to leave behind the things that compel you to care for your family.
yes, loving-kindness is not relevant beyond your family.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 02:43:40 2015 No.7146298 >>7146218 >what is loving friendliness

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 06:20:13 2015 No.7146628 >>7146200 Read before you talk for Christ's sake.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 06:30:05 2015 No.7146644

>>7145815
I'll say something relevant to current posts. Buddhism is nihilistic only within discourse. That amounts to nothing which can be spoken is capable of really representing a Buddhist's values. Language imposes an implicit structure in its descriptions which does not conform to Buddhist philosophy. A value to a Buddhist is basically a sensation somewhere in the body, disassociated from discursive interpretations.
It's non-nihilistic and by extension non-values. But it's a very lively lifestyle since it also funnels your attention exclusively on sensory impressions.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 06:31:56 2015 No.7146648
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>>7145815
Every time /lit/ tries to discuss Buddhism any chance of a decent thread is inevitably ruined by trendy white kid pop orientalist pseudo religious hipsters who know less about actual Buddhism than the Wikipedia scholars who are also ruining the discussion.

>>	Le Ebin Novelty Account Tue Sep 22 06:34:41 2015 No.7146650 >>7146648 every time /lit/ tries to discuss anything it is inevitably ruined by some dumb cunt who thinks they can accurately and smugly sum up the thread and gets it wrong.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 06:45:55 2015 No.7146671 >>7146650 No, I didn't "gets" it wrong. There's no discussion here and it's not going to get any better.

>>	Le Ebin Novelty Account Tue Sep 22 06:53:23 2015 No.7146678 >>7146671 Can you read? Serious question.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 06:54:35 2015 No.7146681 >>7146678 Can you? >they can accurately and smugly sum up the thread and gets it wrong.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 06:55:12 2015 No.7146682 >>7146648 This thread seems to have more people negatively judging Buddhism on misconceptions than teens thinking it's all about chilling out at sinking and blanking thwe mind. Although both sides are quite wrong.

>>	Le Ebin Novelty Account Tue Sep 22 06:58:27 2015 No.7146685 >>7146681 Oh dear. Reread the whole sentence. I think you may be beyond hope though tbh

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 06:59:43 2015 No.7146687

From what I've studied there are interesting elements. Although I think a lot of the metaphysical ideas are more coherently covered in contemporary Western philosophy.

I do think some of the ideas about suffering and attachment are kinda bullshit which don't really hold up that well to real life or critical examination. I've met quite a few Buddhist monks and they seemed fairly moronic to be honest. As though they didn't really understand the religion but they thought it would be cool to throw all their shit in a bin and brainwash themselves into believing they'd found a new state of happiness.

They were Western monks but they still lived the monk life.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 07:02:21 2015 No.7146690 >>7146685 Your grammar is still fucked and you're still an idiot. Try proofreading in the future and you won't be so embarrassed again.

>>	Le Ebin Novelty Account Tue Sep 22 07:10:04 2015 No.7146703 >>7146690 see >>7146685 Continue this process till you figure it out.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 07:15:58 2015 No.7146710 >>7145815 ''Buddhism'' isn't a monolith. There are vast amounts of variations.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 07:17:51 2015 No.7146712 >>7146273 Mate, he said: >'(there's probably a few ancient ones but I doubt they are as good as Aquinas)' Do you really think he's sincere? Do you actually suppose this guy has read Aquinas? Of course he's baiting you.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 07:27:28 2015 No.7146718

Catholic here. I feel Buddhism is fundamentally a negative ideology, and has more in common with nihilism than it does with religion. My religion would encourage the building of a hospital, buddhism would encourage accepting your death due to some treatable illness.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 07:41:17 2015 No.7146738 >>7146718 That's a misconception.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 07:44:03 2015 No.7146743 >>7146718 Yes, to molest the child patients

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 07:45:35 2015 No.7146746 >>7146718 unbearable ideology

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 07:53:03 2015 No.7146760 >>7146205 is this a joke? surely

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 08:00:51 2015 No.7146779

>>7145835
Its flawed. As a person who's been raised in a Buddhist household, there are many flaws.

First flaw from a modernity' POV is that its scattered and is too widely different across traditions. This leads to so many confusion amongst outsiders.

Second, its not easily accessible. Buddhism is a practice oriented philosophy-ish/religion, but the details are too murky and have all sorts of cultural attachment to each tradition, even the so call "secular" buddhism has cultural issues, aka western. I'd like a book thats more like a science book than religious tbh, fam.

Third, too many people don't follow the buddhas teaching and claim knowledge/adherence/expertise to it.

Fourth, too many westerners who don't know/understand buddhism try to say its buddhism. "lol karma is a bitch" "xdd smoke dat buddha brah" etc. From generic retarded hippie speak to generic retarded casual speak. Misconceptions and misuse is all over the place in western culture.

Fifth, internal infightings either within buddhist sects or with other buddhist sects. Hilariously stupid.

Sixth, modern corruptions in forms of McBuddhist centers (getting quite popular these days).

etc. Buddhism itself has lots of issues, the core tenants have some too, but overall, the -ism has issues.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 08:02:06 2015 No.7146783 >>7146208 only because people misinterpret dukkha as something scary, or that it might be scary, and are then scared of being scared

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 08:05:50 2015 No.7146793 >>7146690 not that guy. you missed out "some dumb cunt who thinks", talk about making yourself look like a dumb cunt

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 08:10:48 2015 No.7146809

>>7146779
So it's more that the organised side is flawed, rather than the actual essence? I understand what you mean with that. I agree it's not accessible due to the many sects, but the core parts such as mindfulness aren't hard to begin with (Insight Medication is a difficult task for a newcomer however, many people believe meditation to be an instant miracle cure)

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 08:12:21 2015 No.7146813

>>7146208
I can see how you'd see it as nihilistic.

Throughout history its been accused of nihilism and had to defend itself against those assertions. So certainly, you're not unique amongst that.

>buddhas precepts are put in negative
The common precepts are the Five Precepts which is a voluntary vow to not kill, steal, rape, etc. Maybe you're misusing the word precept? Or I don't know what you're talking about.

>nothing arises but suffering, nirvana
The noble truths of buddhism is mainly about ending of suffering, aka nirvana. The truth states there is suffering and suffering is caused by just existing. When you take that summary, it can easily be seen as nihilistic. But if you look further "suffering from birth, death, living, disease, old age, etc" you see there is truth in it. Just because stating the obvious truth that people don't want to hear/see, shouldn't make it nihilistic or negative. Its merely stated as a fact in this context. The later noble truths try to address this problem. (assuming its a problem of humanity/living beings in general). Ofcourse one could see this not as a problem, if thats the case, then buddhism isn't for you. However, for most people, the problem of suffering is self-evident. Further noble truths addresses the whys of suffering (mostly psychological states), and a way to fix it (through mental conditioning).

Thats the basics of buddhism, but you can derive so much about the world from this simple noble truth, which is where we get tons of buddhist literature.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 08:20:17 2015 No.7146827

>>7146687
>I do think some of the ideas about suffering and attachment are kinda bullshit which don't really hold up that well to real life or critical examination

Can you provide some examples where suffering wouldn't be caused by attachment?

>car accident death causes suffering not attachment to people inside the car dying or the attachment to the expensive car (and the following repairs)

>old age causes suffering not attachment to living and family members/etc

>cancer causes suffering, not the attachment to be free of the disease that will end you're life

etc etc, root of suffering follows attachment all the way down

Maybe I'm missing your pov, so inform me how you don't see attachment as a cause/root of suffering.

Also, not saying 100% of buddhism is right or even followable for most people, but the core seems to be correct so far from my analysis.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 08:23:53 2015 No.7146836 >>7146813 Best post is /thread post.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 08:31:55 2015 No.7146846

If suffering is caused by craving/desire of any kind and nirvana is the detachment from it and is attainable then surely the Buddha (if he had achieved it) would not have desired food or water, if he had been stroked and sexually advanced upon by someone attractive would be completely unchanging to it and if someone decided to cover his mouth and prevent him from breathing he'd peacefully go out due to lack of oxygen.

Surely if there is some reaction to any of these there is some desire/craving in it.

Desire to satisfy hunger/thirst, sexual desire (even if it slight and unwanted), instinctive desire to survive..

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 08:43:26 2015 No.7146864

>>7146846
When a man/women becomes a monk, they give up everything and take up a robe + bowl. They refuse to take money. They go around daily begging for food. If no one can give food, they go starve. Money is untouched or asked to be given to hospitals/charity/etc.

One of the precepts is not to take that which is not given. It can be construted as not to steal shit or not to do commerce. Most take it as former, but for monks, later definition will apply.

The act of eating/drinking seems more like a functionalism than one based desire.

With sexual advances, there is always meditation. Forcibly covering buddha's mouth would probably kill him (realistically), just like eating a bad mushroom did at the age of ~90ish. Reaction had from that would most likely be functional. Buddha never said he was divine but rather human.

However in old myth stories, buddha had superpowers so some religious people will go with this route.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 08:47:38 2015 No.7146867

>>7146846
>Surely if there is some reaction to any of these there is some desire/craving in it.
>>7146846
>Surely
then prove it, if you are so sure

>>7146846
>If suffering is caused by craving/desire of any kind and nirvana is the detachment from it and is attainable then surely the Buddha (if he had achieved it) would not have desired food or water, if he had been stroked and sexually advanced upon by someone attractive would be completely unchanging to it and if someone decided to cover his mouth and prevent him from breathing he'd peacefully go out due to lack of oxygen.

yes and ?

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 08:52:48 2015 No.7146870
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>>7146846
>>Surely if there is some reaction to any of these there is some desire/craving in it.
>
>Desire to satisfy hunger/thirst, sexual desire (even if it slight and unwanted), instinctive desire to survive..
can you do a better bait ? I am might answer it, if you do

thx

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 08:52:56 2015 No.7146871

>>7146864
But this is my point, enlightenment/nirvana surely can not exist then.
This is all just impressive self-discipline, which files down desire and causes near abilities of near superhuman endurance.
The possibility of zero desire, which is what i understand nirvana/enlightenment to be can not exist. They still need to eat and drink and so on.
Take an extreme example of a monk who's been without 8 days without water. He may stay disciplined and die by not going out to get water but the desire is still there. Even if it is deemed functional, it is still quite clearly desire, just muted

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 08:53:10 2015 No.7146872 >>7146846 >if someone suffocated the buddha, he would die >checkmate buddhism Ayy lmao

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 08:55:14 2015 No.7146874

>>7146871
>Take an extreme example of a monk who's been without 8 days without water. He may stay disciplined and die by not going out to get water but the desire is still there. Even if it is deemed functional, it is still quite clearly desire, just muted
you know that a monk is not a aharant ?

Why do you have faith in your reasoning while admit that you are disconnected form the reality since you do not practice anything ?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 08:56:54 2015 No.7146876 >>7146871 Your understanding of these concepts is middle school tier. Desire is not the problem, the problem is desiring the wrong things, ie transient, worldly conditions that are bound to cause suffering.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 08:58:33 2015 No.7146878

>>7146871
>enlightenment/nirvana surely can not exist then
>before enlightenment
post dubs, check'em
>after enlightenment
post dubs, check'em

being a monk doesn't make a buddha, its a path to buddha-hood. so there will be varying levels of conditioning from monk to monk

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 09:01:54 2015 No.7146882

>>7146876
On top of that, buddhism uses the words like "wholesome" and "unwholesome". Thats the buddhist equivalent of the theostic sinful and un-sinful.

Basically there are varying degrees of desires too, overall goal is to reduce it to zero or close to it. But from bad desire to good desire is a "wholesome" act.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 09:08:15 2015 No.7146887

>>7146876
So if the Buddha had in his mind that he desired peace on earth and there seemed to him a legitimate road to earth if he sacrificed himself.

There is a scenario where peace on earth is achieved but he gets subjected to the most brutal acts of torture imaginable for the next 40 years or however long he lives.

Here, the apparent conditions are met: noble cause, reduce suffering in world.

Considering he's enlightened, these 40 years of torture in the most advanced forms that man can come up with, he's as indifferent to as if he were meditating on a bench for them all.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 09:10:46 2015 No.7146894 >>7146867 seems rather unrealistic is it's taken to the extreme >>7146887

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 09:13:52 2015 No.7146899
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So I'll preface this by stating that I'm not an advanced practitioner. I'm just someone who attempts to hold to the five precepts and tries to meditate as much as I can.

Buddhism isn't about self destruction. It's about dropping the things that harm you that you compulsively latch onto. It's like learning how to take your hand out of an open flame. It's about learning that suffering is optional, and then learning how to let go of it.

This collection of talks, entitled "Basics," is a good introduction.

http://www.dhammatalks.org/mp3_collections_index.html#basics

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 09:13:55 2015 No.7146900 >>7146887 >he gets subjected Who is subjected? Surely not the soul of the buddha or the self of the buddha. If you've learned anything, its that that Buddha is beyond the soul/self continuity. But ordinary people are not.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 09:15:20 2015 No.7146901 File: 43 KB, 300x250, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7146894 >unrealistic

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 09:16:19 2015 No.7146902 >>7146846 Daily Buddha Vacana August 31st Even if low-down criminals should cut you limb from limb with a double-handled saw, if you filled your mind with hatred, you would not be practicing my teachings. -- M.I,129

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 09:19:48 2015 No.7146906 >>7146779 Nice job on entirely missing the target with your critique.

>>	Zen guy Tue Sep 22 09:20:06 2015 No.7146907 ITT: everybody argues against what they wrongly believe buddhism to be >ask a zen guy anything but be aware that zen is not the same as buddhism I don't read the buddhist sutras either, just the zen masters (joshu, wumen, huang bo, etc.)

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 09:20:34 2015 No.7146911

>>7146901
The rest of lifetime =/= once
Also, the fact that this is deemed a big deal proves my point.
>>7146900
Whatever the Buddha is/was. No one it seems was past referring to whatever the Buddha was as 'he' when appropriate. So i am calling him he.
>>7146902
don't know what your point is

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 09:22:08 2015 No.7146914 >>7146911 also, that does not even approach the levels of possibility of torture possible to inflict >>7146901

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 09:37:03 2015 No.7146936

>>7146911
>Whatever the Buddha is/was. No one it seems was past referring to whatever the Buddha was as 'he' when appropriate. So i am calling him he.
Buddha as a person is used nominally. If you want a hypothetical situation where you want the buddha to be subjected to something, you'll have to understand the basic core of buddhism. Which is anatta (or no-self).

My answer is still a proper answer. I can give you a non-buddhist answer but thats not what you want to hear right? Buddhist answer is something you may dislike, but it is what it is.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 09:44:45 2015 No.7146957

>>7146936
seems like an extreme cop out of an answer.

Perhaps I'm being presumptuous but i'm guessing you haven't achieved enlightenment so therefore you don't know whether it is even a real state let alone everything else.

This is similar reasoning that mormons have about that guy who spoke to jesus in the hat or whatever it is.

I.e. It happened, you can't prove it didn't, it doesn't mater how outlandish it is.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 09:52:16 2015 No.7146971 >>7146957 at least you admit that you are a troll, and a bad one.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 09:54:13 2015 No.7146975

>>7146957
From your pov, its a cop out answer, because you don't understand the basic concepts like no-self or enlightenment or buddha. And for the record, you don't seem to have any interest in trying to understand what they are either. Thus whatever answer I give you won't satisfy you.

A proper way to handle would be to learn(not pray or believe in or worship) what anatta/core principle is and then re-examine my answer. It relates to how your hypothetical situation is flawed on a very fundamental level.

tl;dr okay, kid

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 09:56:24 2015 No.7146976 File: 29 KB, 300x450, old-man-celebrating-laptop-16618166.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7145815 Death cult for people born into it and retarded "spiritual" Westerners. Also, meditating is gay as Hell.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 09:58:46 2015 No.7146980

>>7146971
tell me why i'm wrong. So far all i've gotten is, you don't understand because you don't get it, it's a state which can not be described and which by the way i haven't experienced.

It is the same I'm afraid and the claim that the Buddha (IN WHATEVER FORM 'HE' OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO REFER TO THE ENTITY OF THE BUDDHA AS EXISTED) could be the type of being described is approaching mormon levels of faith

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 10:01:41 2015 No.7146987 >>7146980 >tell me why im wrong now you're a fucking troll

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 10:02:44 2015 No.7146990 >>7146976 Nice meme, ebin etc

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 10:06:34 2015 No.7146996

>>7146987
>>7146975
>okay, kid
>you're a troll

The arguments are improving

So far you have given literally nothing. You'll say re-examine your answer but I have examined it, it is simply lacking.

If you have not achieved enlightenment you can not know it exists and you can not know that the Buddha wasn't a charlatan.

I know a bit about Buddhism, no self, noble truths and so on, there is much which seems good, useful advice but plenty which seems nonsense.

As i've explained and as you have not given any real answers to.

That's all there is to it

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 10:08:02 2015 No.7146998 >>7146976 >retarded "spiritual" Westerners. I thought we already had The Dersert Trilogy for them.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 10:10:27 2015 No.7147002

>>7146996
If you've already accepted that people are fallible and cannot be knowable, why are you seeking answer from such people?

You're a troll, a bad one at that. A good or atleast a better would try to lead the conversation rather than not budge at all. This is the level of troll that we are left with. Fucking kids these days.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 10:18:39 2015 No.7147021

>>7147002
Honestly can't tell whether it's gone over your head or whether you just don't want to budge yourself. Strange you're saying I won't lead the conversation when I'm asking questions and you simply don't answer them.

And of course the whole nothing is knowable argument is also there but bring it down to Earth. Because it is not knowable whether it is there we don't stand in front of moving traffic. there are levels of doubt which are reasonable obviously.

Again, resorting to calling me 'kid' and 'troll' doesn't seem to do anything but show you're unwilling to actually think about what I brought up rather than dismiss it so yes, in this rare instance you're right, a conversation is not worth sustaining.. at least one dealing in reasonable beliefs seems beyond you.

Anyway all I can ask is for you to read what I said and actually think about it rather than just personal attacks, ignoring what is being said and 'you don't get it'

Zen guy Tue Sep 22 10:21:39 2015 No.7147035

>>7146980
let's examine your story from the zen perspective
again, this is not the same as buddhism

your story:
A buddha (someone enlightened) gets offerd to bring world peace, but gets tortured for the rest of his life, if he accepts.

your flawed assumptions:
>world peace means less pain&death means less suffering
this is not necessarily true. pain and suffering aren't the same.
>a buddha needs to reduce pain&death if he can
that's not the case. Enlightenment entails the end of discrimination between concepts like good and bad, gain and loss. So your moral judgements don't apply to buddhas.
There are pretty frequent stories of zen masters (aka buddhas) inflicting pain.
Nansen cut a cat in half, Gutei cut his disciples finger of, joshu and other masters often hit their monks with a stick.
When joshu was asked why a rabbit ran away when he walked in the yard, even though he is a zen master and therefore a man of virtue, he answered "because I like to kill"

We can not with certainty say how buddha would actually act in that situation and different buddhas would probably act differently.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 10:24:09 2015 No.7147043

>>7145815

By far the wisest religion. Not without flaws.

Besides, I believe it is one of the few religions whose spiritual practices have been proven by science to be basically the best thing you can do for mental health/optimization (namely, meditation).

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 10:28:54 2015 No.7147050

>>7146976

>Also, meditating is gay as Hell.

This is most likely bait. On the off chance that someone takes this for face value:

NO IT ISN'T YOU FUCKING FAGGOT.

Elaborating - meditation has been proven to reduce stress, anxiety, depression, prevent relapse of depression with equal effectiveness as antidepressant drugs, reduces mind wandering, enhances ability to concentrate, builds discipline, increases well-being in day to day activities, causes structural, physical alterations in the brain, enhancing cortical thickness and weakening the amygdala, reduces ageing on a cellular level as measured through telomeres, reduces relapse rate in recovering drug addicts, and in general, is just awesome, free, and easy.

Don't be a tool. If you are in doubt about any of the numerous claims I made above, do try googling before dismissing it off hand. It's all true. Check NCBI or another credible source of scientific abstracts.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 10:29:43 2015 No.7147053

>>7147035
Ok, now let's address your flawed assumptions.

I said in this hypothetical he chooses to do it not that he had to.

Also, it is not my conception of world peace, it is a conception which Buddha agrees as is evident in what I said. Again this doesn't necessarily mean, just people don't kill one another/no wars, it means world peace down to the very core i.e. men and women at peace.

I didn't say anything about pain in death the way you claimed I did but i think it follows quite easily that all humans at peace = less suffering

If the Buddha is offered the same proposition

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 10:39:14 2015 No.7147079 File: 42 KB, 224x248, 1366654636844.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7146255 >me browsing /pol/ has nothing to do with that. kek

Zen guy Tue Sep 22 10:43:30 2015 No.7147091

>>7147053
>Also, it is not my conception of world peace, it is a conception which Buddha agrees as is evident in what I said.
There is no concept of world peace a buddhas agrees with.
Again, an enlightened mind is beyond good and bad, peace and war, gain and loss. Prefering one over the other is a sign of the monkey mind, not the enlightened mind.

>>7147053
>I said in this hypothetical he chooses to do it not that he had to.
if he chooses to do it, he does it and is in pain for the next 40 years.
He will scream and probably try to end it.
He may try to numb the pain via meditation, if he thinks this will help.
Suicide may be an option too.
We still can't know his actual reaction to the situation.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 10:52:03 2015 No.7147121

Any good introductions to Buddhism? I've read Midnfulness in Plain English and I'd like to investigate further and read canonical texts (I'm not looking to become a Buddhist however)

I'd like to know the differences between each school of Buddhism, and the ideas shared by each school. A general history would be good, and how it mingled with western ideas during the classical times would be an added bonus.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 10:55:18 2015 No.7147134 >>7145815 Lately, i'm reading Alan Watt's "Zen buddhism" which is pretty interesting. You gotta take what he says with a grain of salt though, apparently he ended his life being an alcoholic and a pessimist. A weird turn of events.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 10:57:47 2015 No.7147144 >>7147121 I mainly learned that shit from wiki along with google site:edu search and scholars research. >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Buddhist_schools >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Buddhism These are good info in general sense.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 10:59:28 2015 No.7147150 >>7147121 What The Buddha Taught. Nice, lucid introduction to basic texts as well as selections from canonical texts in the back of the book.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 11:00:13 2015 No.7147154 Where do you start with Buddhism? The Dhammapada? What after it? Thanks.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 11:00:54 2015 No.7147157 >>7147134 >mfw reading about all these great spiritual traditions and feeling this great love and respect for what self-mastery can accomplish >still a degenerate

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 11:01:34 2015 No.7147162 >>7147154 >>7147150 Or read Mindfulness in Plain English if you just want to start insight meditation.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 11:04:59 2015 No.7147179 >>7146205 The ego is an illusion and the goal of Buddhism as well as Hinduism is to realize that. It's not as if we kill an integral part of ourselves, but we come to a real contact with the world once we drop all the cultural illusions.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 11:08:01 2015 No.7147184

>>7146218
The opposite is the case. Truly enlightened Buddhists aren't detatched or anything, but completely involved in life with a great compassion towards others.
Just as your digestive system is a complete mess of bacteria eating each other up, but harmonious on the outside, you can become aware that the struggles which go with human existence are harmonious as a whole.
That's why Buddhism isn't missionary. Because people "not getting it" is part of the game.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 11:13:30 2015 No.7147198 >>7147184 this

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 11:15:39 2015 No.7147202

Can anyone challenge this idea of Buddhism that I have, that it's a religion of abandonment and despair? I would hate for anyone I love to become a Buddhist and to say to themselves that their "self" does not exist. It would be like watching them commit spiritual suicide.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 11:17:23 2015 No.7147210 >>7147202 Read the thread.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 11:17:52 2015 No.7147213 Buddhism versus Christianity threads are fun. The two most peaceful and compassionate religions.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 11:20:18 2015 No.7147218

>>7147202
>Can anyone challenge this idea of Buddhism that I have, that it's a religion of abandonment and despair?
No, because that's _exactly_ what it is.
>I would hate for anyone I love to become a Buddhist and to say to themselves that their "self" does not exist. It would be like watching them commit spiritual suicide.
That's exactly what it is. Buddhists would take a shortcut and commit a real suicide except for the fact that they believe in reincarnation, which would make suicide self-defeating and pointless.

So yes, if you're a materialist and you don't believe in souls and reincarnation, then you should just commit suicide instead of mucking about with Buddhist mysticism. The end result is the same, you'll just get there quicker.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 11:21:31 2015 No.7147223 File: 30 KB, 400x304, 3332.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7147218

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 11:23:48 2015 No.7147229 >>7146907 So you're more into the Renzai sect? How do you feel about Soto and Dogen?

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 11:24:16 2015 No.7147230

>>7147218
Why do you try to talk so authoritatively about a religion you've obviously never read a word of?

And if you're trolling, how fucking dead inside you to have to be troll a buddhism thread for fuck's sakes? Heh i sure showed a bunch of guys who meditate 20 minutes a day

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 11:24:34 2015 No.7147232

>>7147202
No more than hospital is a center of disease and death.

Do you hate people for going to hospital and to have them say they have disease and want a cure for themselves?

I don't know if I'd call them nihilist or the hospital a negative center. Certainly looks like a negative/nihilist center

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 11:26:12 2015 No.7147236 >>7147202 >I would hate for anyone I love to become a Buddhist and to say to themselves that their "self" does not exist. It doesn't exist and believing otherwise is the cause of suffering.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 11:28:05 2015 No.7147240 >>7147134 Nothing weird about it, did you not read his words? Perhaps watch his video entitled "a conversation with myself", if you haven't done so already.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 11:29:42 2015 No.7147248 >>7147229 >So you're more into the Renzai sect? yes >How do you feel about Soto and Dogen? They have their place, but I don't believe in their practice.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 11:33:37 2015 No.7147267 >>7147202 God doesn't exist, invisible souls dont exist. There I said it. Now let the bodies hit the floor.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 11:34:55 2015 No.7147275

>>7147230
>Why do you try to talk so authoritatively about a religion you've obviously never read a word of?
Right. Looks like babby is having his horizons widened.

O babby, thou authoritative expert, answer me this: if a) the mind and all its experiences exist solely as electrical currents in the brain, and b) the end goal of life is the cessation of suffering, then why would shutting off electrical currents in the brain and stopping all suffering forever be a bad thing?

One-sentence answers only, please.

>>7147232
>No more than hospital is a center of disease and death.
Yes, technically death is a universal cure for all disease. Clearly, a better objective function than just 'lack of disease' is needed.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 11:41:35 2015 No.7147296 >>7147275 Lmao guy who thinks 'cessation of suffering' means suicide is talking about horizon widening. Literally dawkins-tier arguments itt. Ok champ

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 11:41:41 2015 No.7147297 >>7146205 >I have no idea what I'm talking about >Here are my aggressively uninformed opinions Did you think this post through before you posted it?

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 11:52:19 2015 No.7147337

>>7147275
Here's something you sciencefags will never, ever understand: the Buddha was motivated to do what he did out of compassion, not sterile logic chopping. Not to mention the goal of Buddhist practice is not the cessation of suffering, but Nirvana, experiencing reality as it is (sunyata, suchness).

You're approaching this like an anime villain. Hurr life is suffering, why live hurr. For buddhists it's more about, how can I reconcile myself with this harsh reality I find myself in? What are the truths that allow me to transcend the physical sphere into an understanding of reality's deepest informing principles? How can I know the Ultimate behind the Conditional?

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 12:28:46 2015 No.7147435

>>7147337
>. Not to mention the goal of Buddhist practice is not the cessation of suffering, but Nirvana, experiencing reality as it is (sunyata, suchness).

buddhism is pure phenomenology indeed

the whole dukkha story is just a path leading to this, typically chosen by those who are depressed.
The real understanding of the dharma is the various consciousnesses. it is an intellectual path. It is all about the analysis of the perceptions.

Many many monks insist that the practitioner adopts a physicist's stance of analysis and being curious of causes and effects of the mental states.
Actually, those who choose to get into buddhism to stop being sad are quite astounded that the practice of the dharma is really more intellectual than dealing with emotions.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 12:36:12 2015 No.7147451 >>7147435 I agree. Sati is quite empirical.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 12:48:31 2015 No.7147489

>>7147091
if he has no conception of what is good and bad then why does he say "Even if low-down criminals should cut you limb from limb with a double-handled saw, if you filled your mind with hatred, you would not be practicing my teachings."

how does he have a concept of what hatred is?

And if he is enlightened, if he has achieved nirvana then why would he scream? He's free from any suffering if he's achieved nirvana apparently

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 13:09:42 2015 No.7147529 >>7147489 >you can't know about hatred if you're not feeling the hate at this moment Fucking hilariously childish.

>>	ayy lmao Tue Sep 22 13:17:16 2015 No.7147543 >>7147529 learn how to read before criticising next time

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 13:18:50 2015 No.7147546 >>7147543 ayyyyyyyyyyyy

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 13:20:57 2015 No.7147552

>>7147337
>For buddhists it's more about, how can I reconcile myself with this harsh reality I find myself in?
To 'reconcile myself' is a means, not an end, you buttmunch.

What is the goal of Buddhism? 'Experiencing reality as it is'? Whatever for? What's the benefit in it for me?

Try to think this thing through as least one step ahead, I feel like I'm arguing with a child.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 13:23:17 2015 No.7147557 >>7147552 >What is the goal of Buddhism? 'Experiencing reality as it is'? Whatever for? What's the benefit in it for me? A literal google search would help you out so much, but then again a CHILD wouldn't know how to use a google search.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 13:26:18 2015 No.7147564

>>7147557
Come on, help me out. You're so obviously smart, why not show your chops, put aside false modesty and actually say something in your own words, not uncle Google's, hm?

Also, I managed to 'experience reality as it is'. Turns out reality is an ineluctable modality of the visible.

Am I a true hardcore Bodhisattva now?

Or did you mean something entirely different by 'experiencing reality as it is'? Help me out here.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 13:30:17 2015 No.7147578 >>7147564 We can play games or you can use google. Seriously, you're not fooling anyone by playing the childish game. Grow some backbone and some base before arguing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 13:36:16 2015 No.7147596 >>7147564 Srsly no one likes you here.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 13:39:49 2015 No.7147615

>>7147578
>We can play games or you can use google. Seriously, you're not fooling anyone by playing the childish game.
Usually when you deflect like that this means you concede defeat. Protip, I wrote the textbook that you wanted to quote so badly when you deflected me to Google.

Also, hint: there's a reason why this game is childish, and that reason isn't me.

>>7147596
>Srsly no one likes you here.
I'd commit suicide if I were forced to live in a world where I'm liked by the likes of you.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 13:59:50 2015 No.7147680

>>7147564
It's experiencing reality as it is, unclouded by your mental programming. It's about experiencing reality without (or a minimum of) filters. You can experience something of this in just 15 minutes of meditation. The fact that you're trying to intellectualize an experiential mode of being is laughable.

I say 'experiencing the is-ness of reality', you say 'whatever for?' i hate using this word but you westerners are so fucking cucked. It's all whys and hows and why would i want to do that or what's in it for me, and that doesn't make sense, define 'x' like you're onto something and not just spinning your wheels in the mental ruts the buddha specifically warned us not to engage with.

I've felt more peace and joy just breathing deeply in a park on a nice dayand taking it all in than I've ever felt reading a science book or watching le black science man wax rhapsodic about stardust. Fuck off back to starbucks, you're out of your depth here champ

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 14:05:51 2015 No.7147694 >>7146200 what an utterly typical misunderstanding

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 14:07:56 2015 No.7147701 >>7147680 but if you enjoy being relaxed, enlightened and so on why do you come across as such a cunt?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 14:11:06 2015 No.7147706 >>7147701 lol

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 22 14:12:59 2015 No.7147709 >>7147701 Epic meme bro, dont you have some marxism flyers to put up somewhere?

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 14:21:36 2015 No.7147733

>>7147680
>It's experiencing reality as it is, unclouded by your mental programming.
But I did just that. I found out that reality is an ineluctable modality of the visible. Am I a bodhisattva now?

> I've felt more peace and joy just breathing deeply in a park on a nice dayand taking it all in than I've ever felt blah blah blah
Let me tell you a great secret: a hit of heroin will jack up that feeling of peace and joy a hundredfold. So why not take the shortcut? What's the point of taking the slow and laborious way when mankind figured out the quick and direct way?

>>7147694
>what an utterly typical misunderstanding
Enlighten us, o enlightened one. Teach us the not-misunderstood way.

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 14:28:02 2015 No.7147754

>>7147733
Im done. When you're earnestly arguing for heroin use being a substitute for enlightenment because you're too thick to tell the difference, u trollin.

Nice line drop from Ulysses by the way, for a second i almost thought i wasn't debating with another babby who thinks he's cultured cause he read a meme book

Anonymous Tue Sep 22 15:05:18 2015 No.7147873

>>7147754
>When you're earnestly arguing for heroin use being a substitute for enlightenment because you're too thick to tell the difference
'Enlightenment'? You said 'feeling peace and joy', not 'enlightenment'. Heroin will certainly bring about an intense feeling of peace and joy, no need to argue with this. Is now 'enlightenment' not the same as a 'feeling of peace and joy'? Then explain to me. Yes, I am too thick. You're not thick, so what exactly is the difference? Help out a thick nigga, bro.

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/lit/ - Literature