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/lit/ - Literature

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7163839 No.7163839 [Reply] [Original]

>tfw english PhD at a non-top school
>program is only partially funded so already $80k in debt by start of third year
>find out that nobody graduating from my program has gotten a tenure-track job in almost a decade
>most can't even get community college teaching jobs
>only did this because I like reading but have zero other useful skills
>realize that I'm not even particularly good at or interested in research
What do I do /lit/? I want to drop out now but I won't be able to get a job, and my debt payments will start coming in.

>> No.7163896

>>7163839
keep seated on that bench for eternity

>> No.7163938

I'm an English major also, and I look at my college career basically like the Joker burning that stack of cash in TDK.

>tfw some men just want to watch the world burn

except I just want to watch my life burn. I could have picked anything else, but idg enough of af about anything besides lit, except history, which of course is my minor. at least I study what I like and am exposed to good texts and some good teachers w/ unique insights.

in the meantime I am also studying survivalism because if it doesn't work out I am not working fast-food for the rest of my life and I'll run into the jungle never to return tbh.

>> No.7164687

Why don't you all teach high school.

>> No.7164696

>english PhD

Is there any benefit at all in doing this?

>> No.7164698

>>7164696
knowledge

>> No.7164700

>>7163839

You can still survive without tenure. Most profs at a university will not be tenured. But they still teach 4/5 classes a year and do research. It's enough to get by on.

>> No.7164834

>>7163839
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqrCoyVK80I
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=100+reasons+NOT+to+go+to+graduate+school

>> No.7164860

>>7163938
Yep. Pretty much this. Just graduated before summer, now I'm NEET and throwing applications every which way.

>> No.7164862

>>7164834

Funny how these lists are always made by people who went to graduate schools. Funny how most people who write books against going to college went to elitist schools like Yale or Oxford. Funny how most successful people have graduate degrees or Ph.d's.

Funny how these statistics mean nothing to people who didn't go to graduate school. But I guess their lack of education accounts for this.

>> No.7164866

>>7163839
>$80k in debt

land of the free

>> No.7164875

>>7164862

rekt

>> No.7164882

I'm so glad I stopped after doing just a Bachelors in English.

>> No.7164888

>>7163839
Start trying to get a job. If you get an acceptable one, quit, or move to part-time if that's an option.

>> No.7164936

>>7164862

This. Undergraduates/bachelor's degrees are just about ticking of boxes and repeating knowledge researched by real scientists or researches. Graduates/Phd's are the people actually doing the real research.

>> No.7164965

>>7163839
Complete the degree, flee the country.

>> No.7164967

I stopped at my MA. Unfortunately I'm still completely useless in the real world.

Looks like suicide for me

>> No.7164971

>>7163839
Get a job and start voting republican.

>> No.7165001

>>7164936
>>7164862
Of course. But what differences does that make? Are you implying that their assessments of the academic job market are wrong?

>> No.7165047
File: 118 KB, 322x340, im starting to get sad.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7165047

>mexican public university
>didn't learn shit at all

>> No.7165080

>tfw wing to be a history professor
>tfw too scared to do it because austerity
>mfw I focused my a levels on non-stem subjects

how screwed am I? is law the only viable non-stem degree worth doing nowadays?

>> No.7165084

>only did this because I like reading but have zero other useful skills
I hear this a lot from people with useless majors and am blown away by it.

You go to school to learn useful skills, you're not supposed to pick a program that requires you learning nothing new.

>> No.7165095

>>7165080
Do PPE, become Prime Minister.

But otherwise, I think you can do any arts degree you like. Just make sure that you also do a bunch of stuff that will look good on your CV and research career options along the way. People won't avoid hiring you because you have a history degree- they'll avoid hiring you because you don't have anything else to offer.

>> No.7165106

>>7163938
Where do you live?


For every English major in this thread, I recommend moving to the largest city nearby, working part-time jobs to pay rent while signing up with as many recruitment agencies as possible. That's what I did and now I have a full-time job that makes me want to kill myself every day.

>> No.7165123

>>7165080
Do an arts degree but get an internship each summer. Should be easy to get a job when you graduate so long as it is a good uni.

>> No.7165134

>>7165123

This. I have just a history degree, which is arguably bad for employment in the private sector. But I studied at Oxford, and just namedropping my university gets me into any job interview or internship . But regardless, you still have to perform at your job to succeed.

>> No.7165147

>>7165134
By way of contrast, I have a degree from Oxford and didn't do any internships worth a damn in my holidays. Needless to say I'm now fucked. Learn from my mistakes fellow anons.

>> No.7165172

>>7163839
Maybe my idea is stupid, but there are English schools around the world with English-born teachers. I think the pay is not terrible and you have the opportunity to live in another country. It's better than teaching in high school because the kids pay to go to these courses so you dont't have to deal with tards/idiots.

>> No.7165198

>>7165172
Not a stupid idea by any means. Aside from the private language school jobs (usually teaching kids, sometimes adults), you can also get ones in colleges, schools, universities, with lower hours but less pay. There are relatively prestigious ones like the JET scheme for Japan out there too.

I wouldn't say you don't have to deal with idiots, though. At the private schools the kids' parents pay- doesn't mean the kids want to be there. But in China (where I did it) students are generally vastly, vastly better behaved than in the west. The most common form of 'misbehaviour' is falling asleep in class due to their horrific daily workload.

>> No.7165207

>>7165147
What kind of job did you want to get?

>> No.7165212

Can you avoid paying your debt?

>> No.7165224

>>7165134
>This. I have just a history degree, which is arguably bad for employment in the private sector.

Not really, at least in the UK. A friend of mine got into the City with one.

>> No.7165230

>>7165224
How does one get into Wall Street with a history degree?

>> No.7165231

>>7165224

Well it might be different for me because I'm Belgian, and a degree from Oxford has a lot more value here compared to the UK.

>> No.7165234

Can't you just be a teacher overseas?

>> No.7165241

>>7165198
Not OP but sounds interesting. I don't really want to do some shit menial/crushing job so teaching english in somewhere like China sounds pretty good.

Is there a lot of demand for teachers there, will there be more in the future?

>> No.7165278

>>7165241
Yes, massively so. When I was doing it more or less anyone with a pulse could get a teaching job. Technically you needed a university degree, but lots of private schools found ways around that- although if you're hired illegally that obviously makes your position more vulnerable.

However, last I heard the government had added two years of work experience to the requirements for a work visa. I imagine the schools have ways around that too, though.

It's not even just good for fun, either. I'm back home with a relatively well-paid job now, but with the insane cost of living here I'm pretty sure I both had a better lifestyle AND saved more money teaching abroad.

>> No.7165287

>>7165207
Well initially I wanted to be an academic. Now I don't even know any more, but I cant get anybody to hire me without a years office experience anyway. Either that or I'm "overqualified", that old trap.

>> No.7165312

>>7165278
Sounds pretty cool, will look into it but
> the government had added two years of work experience to the requirements for a work visa

will probably trip me up.

>> No.7165332

>>7165312
You can look at other countries too. South Korea used to be the classic choice for saving money (higher pay, still low cost of living), but I think pay in China may have caught up quite a bit. Japan always looked less fun to me (more working hours, higher cost of living meaning you don't have the living-like-a-king effect), but I didn't look into it much. Taiwan is a gorgeous place but I don't know what the teaching's like, and I've never been to SE Asia. I'm sure English teachers are in demand more or less everywhere though.

>> No.7165334

>double major
>major + minor bachelors
r u dumb

>> No.7165342

>>7165332
Oh yeah, I didn't consider other countries. You've been pretty helpful, anon, thanks. I feel slightly less directionless now.

>> No.7165362

>>7163839
>>tfw english PhD at a non-top school
school doesn't matter, is your specific department top in its subject area *for research*?

>>program is only partially funded so already $80k in debt by start of third year
why the hell would you take on a non-fully funded PhD … if you run up $80k debt in two years it's presumably barely funded?

Never do a PhD unless it is either fully funded, or you have a well paying job that's compatible with the PhD (part time, evenings, whatever), or savings/family support.

>> No.7165373

>>7165287
Ignore the experience requirements. Don't lie about them when asked, just ignore them and refocus the conversation onto qualifications.

>> No.7165392

>>7165342
Cool. There should be lots of information out there. Lesson no. 1 is research the shit out of the school you're going to teach at, find past teacher testimonials etc to make sure it's on the (reasonably) level (although bear in mind that, like everything, people are more likely to tell negative stories than positive ones).

>> No.7165470

>>7163839
How not top are we speaking?

I'm at a world top 100 for my bachelors, what sort of rank are we talking?

I have hopes of doing a PhD. not in literature, but is doing one at a 250-300 ranked university worth it?

>> No.7165490

>>7165470
See >>7165362. Definitely not if you have to pay for it (unless you're independently very wealthy, of course), and you should google some of the many blogs explaining just how tiny your chances of getting a job in academia are. Most are US-based, where the job market is particularly fucked up, though, so things might be better elsewhere.

>> No.7165499

>>7165490
I've seen plenty of funded ones in my field, just enough to live on relatively well.

They just aren't the best in the world

>> No.7165552

>>7165047
Esto, psh fierro pariente

>> No.7165624

>>7165106
>recruitment agencies
>>7163938 here. what type of recruitment agencies do you mean? internships and stuff like that?

I already have a part-time job and a place. no way I have the $$$ to move to a big city though. live in East TN rn, and it's all I can do to keep my head above water as it is.

>> No.7165927

>>7165198
>tfw bachelors of science in psychology with research distinction in child development
>years of experience at a top 10 children's hospital working as a member of a research team who has had their research achieve mainstream media recognition
>Graduated with a great GPA and tons of extracurriculars, one of which was serving as an editor on the campus literary mag
>Lived with an international Asian roommate and helped introduce him to American culture and the English language for years
>Have had a love for Japanese culture since I was young, always wanted to live there and experience my self as a foreigner. Not weeb shit either, I love Japanese literature, cinema, history, etc...
>Want to work with kids in my future career and working with Japanese students in JET would have been great experience
>want to be a psychiatric nurse practitioner and Japan is just now launching the nurse practitioner career and needs trainers from the west to get their programs off the ground and I want to help with that
>Dont know much Japanese but wanted to use a year abroad to immerse myself and git gud
>didn't even get an interview at jet

Yet they'll accept your bargain bin weeb.

>> No.7165935

>>7163839
You're fucked, m8. You'll be working as an adjunct barely pulling 25k a year with zero benefits or job security.

Not sure what the best option for you is right now. 80k debt is serious shit. I don't know. Learn a trade or go be a nurse or something.

>> No.7165942

Get into bodybuilding and do gay4pay

>> No.7165986

I HAVE NOWHEJRE ELSE TO POST THIS BUT I'M SITTING IN THE FUCKING "ELECTRONIC LEARNING" CLASSROOM IN THE FUCKING LIBRARY AND IJ UST COMMUTED 45 FUCKING MINUTES BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS MONDAY AND I HAD CLASS TODAY

I SPENT LAST NIGHT AGONISING OVER THIS FUCKING BOOK I HAVE TO REVIEW NEARLY KILLING MYSELF FINISHING IT SO THAT I CAN GET UP THIS MORNING ON 3 HOURS OF SLEEP AND WRITE THE FUCKING PRESENTATION AND RUN DOWNTOWN AND HERE I AM

AND IT'S FUICKING SUNDAY

WHERE IS EVERYONE??? IT'S ALMOST 1 DURRRRRR I WONDER WHERE EVERYONOH IT'S SUNDAY AND I'KM A HUGE RETARD

THANKS COLLEGE

>> No.7165994

ALSO THE COMMUTE COST ME $5 AND I COULD HAVE BOUGHT A FUCKING MEDIUM WALK-IN SPECIAL PIZZA FOR THAT

>> No.7165996

>>7165986
Just do a good amount and go to sleep early mang.

>> No.7166006

>>7165986
Brah, calm down. You accidentally worked ahead, this is good news. Finish the thing and head home. Wrap yourself in a blankey and play some vidya or watch Gilmore Girls or something.

>> No.7166015
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7166015

>>7165996
>>7166006
But $5

>> No.7166020

My girlfriend says you're a pussy, because you're clearly too afraid to move out of the country where your degree would be worth something.

>> No.7166035

>>7166015
pretend that you spent $5 to do your work ahead of time and now you've got lots of stress-free hours ahead to do whatever you want.

Seriously though, how did you confuse sunday for monday fam?

>> No.7166055

>>7163938
>idg enough of af

>> No.7166142

Feels good to be in a program with 100% employment 5 years after graduation. Feels good to be in STEM.

>inb4 nonsense

>> No.7166164

>>7164866
freedom ain't free

>> No.7166841

>>7164700
You're thinking about adjunct profs and they don't do research.. most teach 5/5 courseloads spread across different universities, and they live in poverty.

>>7165362
Field rankings don't really mean anything for employment. Academia is so stacked toward the top Ivy schools, but even at those places most students can't get tenure track positions. They are about 15 professors in my department and they all did their PhDs at the same few schools.

I had funding for my first year but it got cut my second year and I didn't have the balls to leave. $80k includes undergrad debt.

>>7165470
I'm at a universty ranked around 30 for graduate English.

>>7166020
How? I could go to a third world country and teach English, but there's no advancement there and I don't want to be dirt poor forever.

>>7165935
Yeah I was thinking of cutting my losses and getting another degree. I can finish a useful degree around 30 with massive debt, but at least I can pay it off by the time I'm 40 or so. I've read about people who adjunct until they're 70 and die poor and homeless, I don't want that life.

>> No.7166860

>>7163839
become william stoner.

>> No.7166870

i'm just an eng lit master but i work as a cleaner

>> No.7167097

>>7166164
Freedom costs a Buck O'Five.

>> No.7167120
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7167120

>>7163839
Become Oil Field Trash and make that Oil Field Ca$h nigga. All that money for what? Self gratification, debt and to work in an unrelated job? Meanwhile STEM Majors and Roughnecks are making more than you with less schooling and no debt.

>> No.7167133

I didn't even know there was such a thing as non-funded phds. I'm working on my history phd at a lower-end tier 1 research school and the thought of bouncing around as an adjunct for a little while is frightening, but at least I will have 5k debt at max.

>> No.7167156

>>7165927
You're overqualified, you dumb faggot. They don't need people like you as teachers. Go get your Nursing degree or whatever the fuck and shut up.

>> No.7167158

>>7167133
You only see them in subjects with no overhead usually. The cost goes up very quickly if you need to pay for lab equipment or something.

And they're still rare as hell. And job wise nearly useless.

>> No.7167171

>>7163839
When will Millenials learn? The writings on the wall!

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/09/why-havent-humanities-phd-programs-collapsed/279733/

>> No.7167177

>>7165927
JET is ridiculously competitive. I lived with a Japanese exchange in halls and she was doing some informal language teaching exchange from the JET dudes from the year before, she said their Japanese was perfect. Like half arsing it you will not get in

>> No.7167181

Kill yourself, what else?

Drop out of society and live a shitty homeless life for good times.

>> No.7167186

>>7163839
Finish your degree and start building skills that are more employable

>> No.7167188

>>7166860
Heh. By today's standards Stoner was miraculously, astonishingly successful. Might have been realistic in the early 20th century, but as the OP suggests, the days of walking into a tenured position are long gone. Far too many PhDs chasing far too few positions.

>> No.7167194
File: 2.49 MB, 1836x1836, IMG_20150926_112207.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7167194

>>7163938
Yeah, I'm in undergrad and if I don't do something soon I'll end up coming out of college worse off than before. I'm finding that I love talking about philosophy, but I hate being assigned to read it. I love music, but I don't like theory, I only like ensembles, lessons, and studio tech. I love my fraternity, but sometimes they're so fucking dense. I'm learning so much about small business organization and motivation. I think I'd like to be a director with my sister. We both love film a lot, and we both 'get' film theory really well.

I'm on my phone so ease forgive formatting errors and comma fuckery.

Pic is unrelated

>> No.7167199

>>7167194
>film
unless you're at NYU Tisch or UCLA.. that shit is guaranteed unemployment

>> No.7167203

>>7166841
>How? I could go to a third world country and teach English
Anon probably means academia in another country. Afaik the US is the most screwed place and other countries are at least slightly less screwed. I think the fact that US PhDs get lots of teaching experience during their course makes you pretty competitive in the UK, where we don't.

>> No.7167215

>>7163839
Don't teach. Write, apply your skill elsewhere. Or teach in a foreign country.

>> No.7167230

>>7164698
>You wasted $150,000 on an education you coulda got for $1.50 in late fees at the public library.

How do you like them apples.

>> No.7167699

>teach abroad
Can I just do this for the rest of my life?

All I need is 4chan and drugs.

>> No.7167715
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7167715

>>7167230
>hurr the purpose of college is not employment

>> No.7167759
File: 39 KB, 700x465, Divorce1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7167759

Seems like based on this thread suicide is the best choice for me

>> No.7168194

>>7165927
the way your wrote that makes me want to print it out and use it to wipe my ass.

>> No.7168353

>>7167715
Seems that way to you suckers. I've got two undergrad Uni degrees and am going for a trade diploma (Industrial Electronics). I'll make more in a year than you'll make in two. I'm so glad I knew the Grad School ship was sinking or otherwise I'd be with the rest of you overeducated under experienced fools.

>> No.7168361

>been reading all my life
>studied finance, math, and english concurrently for college at elite school
>parents are middle class, but saved and paid for what scholarships didn't cover, so no student debt
>$120k job straight out of undergrad in high finance
>sick bonuses and promotions for 5 years straight
>keep up with reading, and stay in touch with old professors
>top notch profile and test scores, accepted into multiple top tier grad programs
>going to do a PhD in english at a top 10 school for pure love of literature with no need to worry about money
>richer and more well read than everyone on this forum.

feelsgood.jpg

>> No.7168465

>>7166055
Not giving enough of a fuck to even fully write "I don't give a fuck" surely must be the epitome of not-giving-a-fuckness.

>> No.7168494

>>7168361
>more well read
maybe not

>> No.7168561

>>7168361
Is this what you middle class people call success? I was born with more wealth than you'll likely be given (don't be fooled - money isn't earned) in your entire lifetime. And, given all the time you've wasted chasing success, I'm quite sure I've read more than you. There's nothing impressive about money. Cultivate skills, create things, develop psychologically, and you'll lead a much richer life, you'll be a lot more successful, than if you waste time chasing money in finance.

>> No.7168964

>left comp. sci for history because I just didn't get it and was doing terribly
>doing pretty decent in history but not excelling or making an impact
>zero communication skills so no internships or even contacts, just one prof I talked about books with for awhile and probably came off like a goofy faggot
>considering suicide for a decade for other reasons, looking like a more attractive option by the day

just cut my life into pieces fam

>> No.7168971

>>7163839
Fight student debt. Don't pay it.

>> No.7168998

>>7168561
My dick is bigger (you forgot to mention that), and I am even richer than you, if you can believe it.

>> No.7169012

>>7163839

You can get a community college job if you're willing to move around and do work in composition. Honeslty if you were going to get a PHD from a lower university you should have gotten it in something more marketable like rhetoric

>> No.7169025

>be history major

>interview as a video logger at a TV news station out of college

>ace the "current event" quiz they give because of my history knowledge and get hired

>cut to 5 years later, i'm a TV producer on Capitol Hill

Sure i got rejected from grad programs, but it's all about taking the skills you learn from your major and applying them to get that all important foot in the door.

>> No.7169049

Do Americans not think when taking on all this debt? What goes through your minds?

>> No.7169052

>>7168361
No decent PhD program takes students that old bro.

>> No.7169066

>>7169052
Lel

>>7169049
Nope we don't give a fuck anymore

>> No.7169078

>>7169049
Unlike Europeans, Americans can move from economic class to economic class over a period of a few years if they have the right skills and someone is willing to hire them. An education in anything is going to be an investment. This obviously isn't the case elsewhere in the world, where, for instance, a degree in "Danish" is going to be absolutely useless.

>> No.7169079

>>7169049
>my parents paid it off, I can do it!
At least that is what went through mine.
Then again, I'm fully funded.

>> No.7169090

>>7165986
yea but did you see the blood moon last night?

>> No.7169141

>>7169078
Nigga you retarded?
120k debt for a 4 years of extended highschool in america?

No fucking thanks

>> No.7169157

>>7163839
>He didn't pick STEM and read on his spare-time

>> No.7169287
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7169287

>>7169157
Yes, good worker.