/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.8648456]

Just heard of Jordan Peterson. After watching some of his videos I have to agree, the voice of reason who stands for freedom of speech and expression. What does /lit/ think of him?

[Anonymous No.8648470]

my genuine feeling is that he is extremely intelligent, but he uses his intelligence to strongly support and self-justify a status quo that exists in opposition to my continued existence on this earth
i think he is 'in the right' in this freedom of speech issue, but after listening to many of his lectures, it's apparent that he is overwhelmingly hypocritical in various ways and seems to have avoided integrating any feminist or postmodern philosophy into his 'worldview' in any meaningful way

[Anonymous No.8648489]

Just old. I listen to Red Eye Radio, a late night trucking podcast about politics and they have the same opinion as him.
The substance of your argument, what do you believe, then I disagree with your beliefs so what's your argument for them?

It wins every time. He gives the lefties far too much credit, tries to point out where he differs instead of getting the main point which is that he grew up in a different era. Also that they are contradictory, that their speech is weighted more heavily because it's personal injury to not respect their preferences and other nonsense.

When all the kids shouting about limiting free speech are old they'll probably do the same to whatever the kids are doing. They are unhappy people for a living, that's not going to change.

[Anonymous No.8648496]

Probably would have helped his case if he weren't overtly biggoted against trans people. All he did, ultimately was say some very inflammatory things that caused two groups of loud unlikable people to get angry and protest and get violent with one another.

[Anonymous No.8648507]

>>8648456

>seems to have avoided integrating any feminist or postmodern philosophy into his 'worldview' in any meaningful way

Sounds like he's doing something right, then.

>Probably would have helped his case if he weren't overtly biggoted against trans people.

By not using their stupid fictional pronouns?

[Anonymous No.8648520]

>>8648496
give me a quote from him that's bigoted
I genuinely want to know because I can't find one.

[Anonymous No.8648526]

>>8648470

>seems to have avoided integrating any feminist or postmodern philosophy into his 'worldview' in any meaningful way

This is only a valid criticism if you're some stupid Hegelian who thinks that every new/recent philosophy is more valid than its philosophical predecessors, simply by virtue of its temporal priority.

No, history is not a linear tale of 'progress'. Feminism/Post-Modernism, far from being relevant BECAUSE they are recent, are irrelevant IN SPITE of that fact.

[Anonymous No.8648535]

>>8648496

>Overtly bigoted against trans people

How? I genuinely would like to know. I've never heard him say anything bigoted against trans people. I know he opposes their entitlement and efforts at censoring others and demanding special privileges but I would not consider that bigotry, but rather, opposing special small interest groups who have too loud of a voice.

[Anonymous No.8648541]

I hope I live to see the day when all classical liberals, conservatives, progressives, neoconservatives, and neoliberals are all rounded up into camps and summarily executed.

[Anonymous No.8648545]

>>8648541

This post..is...I have to say making insanely good sense to me. Socialism master race forever.

[Anonymous No.8648551]

>>8648545

>Socialism master race forever.

[Anonymous No.8648558]

>>8648551

>It's a revolutionary kind of feel

[Anonymous No.8648563]

>>8648551

socialism only failed in shitty countries that would've failed anyway. if you disagree then i'll say that Somalia is proof that limited government doesn't work

[Anonymous No.8648568]

>>8648558

It's ressentiment.

>>8648563

>socialism only failed in shitty countries that would've failed anyway

Let's not take any chances with developed countries, then.

>if you disagree then i'll say that Somalia is proof that limited government doesn't work

I don't believe in limited government for the masses. Most of our problems today arise from the masses being too free, and being governed too lightly.

[Anonymous No.8648573]

>>8648568

what are you then?

[Anonymous No.8648580]

>>8648568
how do you feel about trump?

[Anonymous No.8648591]

I feel bad for the guy. Being subject to so much heckling from the most heinous group of people. He's need to see the bigger picture though, it's not just bill c16, but the entire charter of Rights and freedoms that is the problem. That thing needs to go. When rights are conferred by the state they are not rights but privileges. When judges can interpret and enforce the charter as they wish we no longer have freedoms but limitations.

This is why I have been calling it the charter of privileges and limitations. It is much more true to the nature of the actual charter.

[Anonymous No.8648606]

>>8648573

99% anti-political. The remaining 1% is because it's hard to remain indifferent to a political system that is almost entirely composed of Last Men.

>>8648580

He's a symptom of a cause. The modern Left has been acting like Zarathustra at the start of Thus Spoke Zarathustra, when he's preaching truths to the masses indiscriminately - that is, prior to being told by the old lady that some truths are better kept quiet, which makes Zarathustra realize that he's better off preaching to his fellow creators.

In our case, these indiscriminately preached truths include calling 50%+ of Americans retarded/racist/bigoted/sexist/etc for years on end, laughing at them non-stop on the likes of the Colbert/Oliver/Stewart/etc shows, then wondering why they turn to someone like Trump instead of Hillary. If the modern Left had worked AROUND these people, and left them to their small beliefs/ideals/devices, then Hillary wouldn't have had any problems getting elected. It wasn't THAT long ago that the Republicans were generally regarded as a dead party, with no viable candidates for this election.

Not that I prefer Hillary to Trump, especially after Wikileaks/etc, nor do I care very much in general. Whoever keeps the masses placated is fine by me. Just saying that for those who do, this is why they're having problems.

[Anonymous No.8648614]

>>8648568
>The uber pill
>not ressentiment

[Anonymous No.8648626]

>>8648526
a g r e e d

[Anonymous No.8648627]

>>8648614

It's the opposite, actually.

[Anonymous No.8648693]

>>8648470
> support and self-justify a status quo that exists in opposition to my continued existence on this earth
hahahahahahahha


Sign this petition and support him so he can keep triggering these mentally frail fucks with facts http://citizengo.org/en/sc/37697-support-dr-peterson-against-totalitarian-political-correctness?layout=desktop

Peterson is based as fuck. The sjw are trying so damn hard to shut him down but they can't because they have no fucking logic to back their statements up with so all they can do is frame it and lie about what he really says.

The world is seeing what is going on though.

[Anonymous No.8649097]

>tfw knew him before this trans shitstorm

[Anonymous No.8649222]

>>8648541
only if you include all the marxists, communists and jews

[Anonymous No.8649227]

>>8648526
/thread

[Anonymous No.8649270]

>>8648456
He's just a butt blasted nerd.

>“We’re going to have 31 different classes of pronouns? No, we’re not. It’s just not possible. People can’t do that. Our language doesn’t allow for that; we can’t remember that; what if we make a mistake?”

wah wah wah too hard to remember. How about I call all my profs "Professor Fuckface" because it's too hard to remember everyone's name and wha-what if I make a mistake?

[Anonymous No.8649288]

I think he seems pretty bad at articulating his position with clarity and concision, but he doesn't seem to be actually transphobic.

Read this interview for example: http://dailysignal.com/2016/10/19/university-threatens-to-silence-professor-protesting-genderless-pronouns/

[Anonymous No.8649446]

>>8649270
Why don't we just skip pronouns altogether, and refer to each other by name all the time? Why did we begin using pronouns in the first place?

The interesting thing is that no one objects to being referred to as "you," plural "they," "us," or self-reference as "I," "me," or "us." At least, I've never seen that.

Why is it that identity sometimes conflicts with gender pronouns, but not other pronouns? And if it should, must one adapt and also write new legislation? Zou? Xou? X? Uzh? Ux?

Would it be immoral to refuse?

[Anonymous No.8649451]

>>8649270
>names are the same as pronouns

[Anonymous No.8649469]

i think he's just trying to get out of the university game because he realises it over, or at least coming to a close

there's a reason why mentally ill leftists have found a home at universities and it's because they don't count anymore, there's nothing lost by allowing lefties (or any ideological group) to take them over, it's the same reason why gay people can get married now; marriage isn't a relevant institution, it doesn't count so let them have it

[kitty !kitty/EnNg No.8649505]

>>8649288
what's wrong with singular they? zie, hir, ve etc sound artificial and ugly

[Anonymous No.8649614]

>>8649505
This desu. Language changes to reflect culture, and trying to affect change in culture using language is just not going to work. I'm all for people exiting outside norms of whatever kind, but I hate this modern obsession with changing negligibly influential aspects of culture. Oh wow, we have some new words to label people with! those trans teens are definitely gonna stop killing themselves now! And what's that? The new James Bond is a woman? Wowie zowie women truly no longer need to fear going out alone at night!!

Fucking modern left man. Fuck idpol

[Anonymous No.8649680]

>>8649451
Never said they were, his argument against many pronouns comes down to "too many to remember" which is utter shit and you know it.

[Anonymous No.8649703]

>>8649097
Dude its weird, I've been listening to his lectures for a few months and now he's exploding everywhere

[Anonymous No.8649710]

>>8649680
lol no it isn't. It's fucking nonsensical to expect people to remember and use newly State-introduced pronouns so that certain very special snowflakes don't feel that they "aren't in a safe space". But that isn't even the issue he raises. The problem is that the State legislates that you must speak those words, and you can get in trouble for NOT.

[Anonymous No.8649861]

>>8648470
Bait

[Anonymous No.8649874]

>>8648541
t. Every Jewish person

[Anonymous No.8649930]

>Mfw he starts talking about sacrifice like (legal) ownership is an actual thing.
But really, he's always interesting to listen to.

[Anonymous No.8649941]

He's a rambling retard who this shit site will now endorse only because of his thing against being PC

[Anonymous No.8649951]

>>8649941

at least explain why nigger

[Anonymous No.8650397]

>>8649446
I don't know who Peterson is or what his arguments are, but this is kind of my issue with the pronoun thing too; why is it only gendered pronouns that activists deem to be problematic? If I can pick my pronoun, why can't I pick "we" and "us" to emphasize the commonality I feel with other human beings (or even just because I feel like it), then claim injury to this identity when someone refers to me as "you" because they are implicitly endorsing the idea that we are two different subjects, or that they are objectifying me by identifying me as an "other"?

The whole thing seems like a clusterfuck, especially when bureaucracies, both public and private, start creating rules to enforce them like >>8649710 says.

[Anonymous No.8650445]

>>8649941

The being PC controversy (if you can even call it that) is only a recent thing. He's an extremely intelligent non-marxist college professor that's uploaded over 150 of his lectures etc on youtube and he's about one of the most interesting and captivating people to watch on youtube desu

[Anonymous No.8650742]

This man is a fucking overman. A genius.

I've been listening to his lectures for over a yer now and I must say they are life changing.

[Anonymous No.8650819]

Imagine these people had to speak a language where pretty much every word is gendered

[Anonymous No.8650862]

>>8650397
It kind of makes sense as a way to subvert the enforcement of gender roles in accordance with apparent or actual sex (elsewhere this is called gender expression).

The reason why subversion by way of non-binary gender identity is preferable to mere rejection of gender roles is that if gender roles are rejected without rejecting the identity binary, the refusal to conform to - perhaps even the indeliberate failure to thrive in - gender roles could be construed as a personal flaw, a moral failure of one's duty to the collective as assigned by sex.

Whereas if the binary is rejected, and consequently the propriety of gender roles instead correspond exactly in nature to an individual's particular non-binary gender identity, no moral failure occurs.

Do you think that makes sense? Of course, when confronted with gender roles, merely saying "I would prefer not to" would be possible, though you might be ostracized by the collective.

[Anonymous No.8650871]

>>8649469
>there's a reason why mentally ill leftists have found a home at universities and it's because they don't count anymore, there's nothing lost by allowing lefties (or any ideological group) to take them over
Yeah there is nothing lost in having Social Justice Warriors running your country. I think they'll manage to make communism and Nazi's look like a joke in comparison. If that don't matter then what the fuck is wrong with you?

[Anonymous No.8650924]

>>8648693
Signed.
Just discovered him the other day. His '45 minutes on a single paragraph from Beyond Good and Evil' was the best Nietzsche lecture I've listened to in a good minute

[Anonymous No.8650929]

>>8650871
Universities are not countries my dude

[Anonymous No.8650960]

his maps of meaning lectures are mind blowing.
him explaining Nietzsche is great too.

check out his youtube anons.

[Anonymous No.8650994]

>>8650929

universities train the people of tomorrow

[Anonymous No.8651024]

>>8650994
Thankfully not the case in America.

[Anonymous No.8651125]

>>8650862
Don't get me wrong, I think it makes logical sense based on the little understanding I have of Judith Butler, Eve Sedgwick and other queer theorists, but the hypothetical subversive consequences are purely theoretical at this point. I also think there's a difference between "this is how I identify", which I don't have a problem with, and "this is how you must perceive and address me", which feels very authoritarian. Also, how is it "subversive" when administrations, either public or private, mandate that you must perform these "subversive" acts or face harsh consequences? It effectively just turns it into an exercise of power, ending the subversive aspects. I remember reading an article by Judith Butler, incidentally, where she argued that this was why she wasn't fond of "hate speech" laws and regulations; it cuts off potentials for subversion, which makes sense given her writings.

I should add that I personally will respect someone's choice of gender pronouns because it seems rude not to, but it doesn't really change how I think of them or perceive their gender (or sex or sexual orientation, for that matter).

[Anonymous No.8651163]

>>8648456
He's right about freedom of speech but I think his stance in transgender rights is just his Christianity speaking.

I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with being vegan. But vegans are usually associated with the tumblr crowd and because I don't like the tumblr crowd, I'm normally repulsed by vegans even if there's no solid reason for me to do.

[Anonymous No.8651185]

>>8651163

You understand why though, right? The amendment to C-16 gives the government of Canada the power to compel speech. They will be able to compel speech on pain of a human rights violation. This is fucking medieval shit.

[Anonymous No.8651333]

>>8651185
I love that this is starting to come to light. People worried about this very shit when Pierre gave us the completely unnecessary charter

[Anonymous No.8651637]

>>8651163
>his stance in transgender rights is just his Christianity speaking.
It really fucking isn't and its so far from that. Why is it that you people don't understand him? Its not THAT hard. The new legislation that is put forward by the LGBT community aka the Canadian army of social justice is heavily driven by underlying political motivations that again are heavily motivated by resentment and bitterness and when you see those underlying motivations are driving forth political changes then that should make your alarms ringing.

It don't take much snooping around on the various members of the LGBT/SJW crowds to see what kinds of people are there in the that community and how their characters are and what drives them. If you think their goals are pure and benevolent and for the best of everyone then you are at best naive.

People who are so set on their goals that they'll willfully ignore reality and lie and remove everything that disagrees with their world view are dangerous especially when the things that disagrees with that world view is people. And right now people who disagrees with feminist thought or this new shit of gender thought are being censored, fired and shut out of from communities. You'll get a complaint and a warning for disagreeing with the feminist myth of the gender pay gap for example. Mention anything about racial differences is a hate crime.


Misslabeling someone is going to be a crime. This new legislation opens up for a shit ton of confusion and mistakes which will just cause a mess, but honestly that is not the worst. The worst is the intentional abuse of this law that will occur. If you wonder just how this law will be abused then look no further what is happening to Peterson right now. The claims against him now is that he is transophobic, that he has threatened them and/or used violence against them(???) that he is a bigot and a bunch of shit that simply is not true, yet they want to punish him.

IN A NUTSHELL, the purpose of this law is so that they can do the shit they are doing towards Peterson right now with the law on their side. Like corporations using loopholes and poorly written laws to their advantage. Think corrupt governments making poorly articulated laws so they can spy on their citizens or abuse the laws to their will.

And just the fact that they are so dishonest and lying so much about Peterson right now is just another big red flag that should have people realizing how corrupt and dirty these people play.

[Anonymous No.8651661]

>>8648541
protip: Ya Won't

[Anonymous No.8651991]

>>8651637
>underlying political motivations that again are heavily motivated by resentment and bitterness
>implying all political motivations don't inherently stem from a general resentment and bitterness

[Anonymous No.8652101]

>>8648693

Signed

[Anonymous No.8652111]

>>8651185

Yes, the entire thing is moronic bureaucracy. The only way to stop it is to do what Peterson has done, to question it openly and unabashedly. The only way to get people to stop doing moronic things is to not go along with it at first and secondly to point out the fact that what they are doing is moronic.

[Anonymous No.8653630]

>>8648693

Really need to get more people to sign this anons

[Anonymous No.8653918]

>>8651163
is he christian?