/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.9946841]

ITT: Post your most contrarian literary opinions

[Anonymous No.9946848]

>>9946841
You don't need to be well read to write well.

[Anonymous No.9946854]

>>9946841
Reading is only immersion, emersion is essential in order to become a Hero

[Anonymous No.9946856]

Camus and Orwell suck as fiction writers. Their essays are awesome though.

[Anonymous No.9946862]

>>9946841

Oh god I'm gonna get thrashed.

>Corncob really is a try-hard. I have read The Sound and the Fury twice and still can't stand it. Stream-of-consciousness is a flaky technique that's not pulled off by everyone
>DFW was a great essayist
>Cormac McCarthy is a puffed up Zane Gray
>Heart of Darkness is a beautifully written boring book

[Anonymous No.9946863]

>>9946841
sailor moon > all literature

[Anonymous No.9946867]

Mannerisms for the sake of mannerisms is fine.

[Anonymous No.9946929]

>>9946863
I was legitimately about to say the same thing. The totality of all the plot elements employed in the various versions Sailor Moon are superior to any equivalent in the canon. Save for the numerous issues of its actual commercial execution it is closer to the ideal Aristotelian drama than anything else.

[Anonymous No.9947286]

Anime, movies and any other form of media can be as thought-provoking and deep as books.

[Anonymous No.9947293]

awkward pictures of hotties who don't wear underpants

18 people who definitely didn't get the right bikini size

you won't believe what happens next

No Bra Needed Here! Crazy Pics You Can't Unsee

These photos will make you love women's volleyball

Husband divorced his wife after looking closer at this photo

i'm gonna fucking kill myself

[Anonymous No.9947345]

>>9946841
>text is dead
>videogames, movies and anime are the new literature

[Anonymous No.9947383]

>>9946863
That's not an opinion
That's a fact

[Anonymous No.9947803]

>>9946862
Literally all these are objectively false

[Anonymous No.9947810]

>>9946841
ts eliot is overrated as fuck

[Anonymous No.9947822]

>>9946863
Thats obviously your bullshit hipster opinion

Sailor Moon > Culture

Sailor Moon is a gift from God himself With K-ON and Sakura Card Captors

[Anonymous No.9947826]

>>9946841
Joyce and Jesterman are shit. All Russian novels could do with a hatchet wielding editor. Austen and Bronte are garbage.

[Anonymous No.9947830]

>>9946848
I agree, its a matter of depth of experience

Words are natural to all

Whether your vocabulary is refined or not wont matter when the content is sincere

>>9947293

you'll be welcomed in the afterlife by understanding individuals

>>9947810

I have no idea about objective standards but

I did not care at all for The Wasteland

There were certain parts that elicited the tedium of modernity for me, but the rest seemed unnecessarily obscure just for the sake of it or something

I'm sure there's more to it, but it ought to be also appreciable by the so called 'layman', otherwise you are just in an echo chamber of academia and there is no value in that alone.

>>9947822
sailor moon doesn't know how to use a computer, and is kind of obnoxiously proud of it

[Anonymous No.9947844]

>>9946863
Wrong.

[Anonymous No.9947899]

>>9946848
What are some examples of this?

[Anonymous No.9947912]

>>9946848
This is like saying ''you don't need to see other drawings in your life to draw tell'' or even ''you don't need to listen to music to compose well''

[Anonymous No.9947940]

>>9947912
Indeed; it is true. Think about it.

[Anonymous No.9947975]

>>9947810
Have you tried reading "The Lovesong of J. Alfred Prufrock?". I haven't read a lot of poetry, really, but that's the most beautiful piece of poem I've ever seen. Haven't read the Wasteland, though

[Anonymous No.9947980]

>>9947822
Lita is staring too long

[Anonymous No.9947983]

>>9947975
>>9947830
Forgive my autism, but it's The Waste Land

[Anonymous No.9948000]

>>9947983
Oh, don't worry, anon. It's the right level of autism

[Anonymous No.9948006]

>>9947912
I think it's more like "you don't have to have listened to every influential piece of music from the last 500 years to make good music."

[Anonymous No.9948021]

>>9947822
you forgot the greatest maho shojo

[Anonymous No.9948035]

It's garbage.

[Anonymous No.9948041]

>>9946841
The Bible is overrated in terms of pure literary merit, all religious and cultural preoccupations notwithstanding of course :^)

[Anonymous No.9948055]

>>9946841
Stephen King's reputation will grow after his death and his writings will be appreciated to some extent as literature by future generations.

[Anonymous No.9948058]

>>9947899
Homer
Rimbad

[Anonymous No.9948059]

To Kill a Mockingbird is an awful book about the author's classist detestation of poor white people.

[Anonymous No.9948085]

>>9946841
Women can actually read, comprehend and write literature, and are capable of being intellectually deep. Most people (not just women) are simply dumb now, since democracy has meant there is no "intelligentsia" class anymore.

[Anonymous No.9948124]

Joyce is overrated amongst the modernists. Eliot is far better.

[Anonymous No.9948192]

>>9947912
It's more important to draw from life than to look at other drawings.

[Anonymous No.9948218]

>>9946863
tfw no Sailor Moon blu-rays of original series

[Anonymous No.9948219]

>>9947293
has science gone too far

[Anonymous No.9948221]

> /lit/ is now /a/

BOOOOOO
BOOOOO
Please return back to your own board so I may discuss books in peace thank you have a nice day

[Anonymous No.9948224]

>>9948035
Nope. How do you fail to understand a text this accessible?

[Anonymous No.9948225]

post modernism is cancer

[Anonymous No.9948253]

>>9947912
But that's also true, you gigantic faggot.

[Anonymous No.9948255]

I enjoy reading books

[Anonymous No.9948322]

>>9948225
Totally agree, feminism is cancer

[Anonymous No.9948325]

>>9946856
Dude, the stranger is a fucking masterpiece, kys. Plague was only ok tho. A bit monotonous

[Anonymous No.9948409]

So is Sailor Moon actually worth watching? The artstyle looks great but I'm not sure about the rest

[Anonymous No.9948414]

The Raven is Poe's only acceptable poem. The rest is garbage.

[Anonymous No.9948436]

>>9948409
As long as you accept that half of it is just straight up crap, it's the best anime series ever made.

[Anonymous No.9948481]

>>9948436
> as long as you accept that it is shit
> it's the best anime series ever made

Nah fuck you

[Anonymous No.9948499]

>>9946841

Copyright laws shouldn't exist so I could incorporate a fanfiction printing publishing house.

[Anonymous No.9948595]

>>9946841
You don't need to read the Greek in this day and age. Most people haven't and if you somehow get into an argument with someone you can just call yourself a Platoist and call it a day, no one will actually call you out on your bullshit except for spazzes on /lit/

[Anonymous No.9948756]

>>9947822
Only the 90s anime though. The manga and the remake are actually quite bland.
Seems like all those Goldfish Warning writers salvaged the show.

[Anonymous No.9948759]

The Bible, Homer, and Shakespeare are all unreadable and their influence on muh canon is predicated on showing how over educated the author is.

[Anonymous No.9948760]

>>9948021
That's not Princess Tutu

[Anonymous No.9948779]

>>9947830
>...won't matter when the content is sincere.

Sounds almost like a direct quotation from hemingway

[Anonymous No.9948782]

>>9947844
Killua cute

[Anonymous No.9948806]

>>9946841
I do not believe in powerlessness before the times. I only act like I did.

[Anonymous No.9948823]

>>9948325
If you seriously think The Stranger is a masterpiece you need to read more, friend. It's pretty mediocre.

[Anonymous No.9948834]

>>9948823
Hey fuck you guy. The first and last chapters of The Stranger are some of the best literature ever written.

[Anonymous No.9948838]

Moby Dick is mostly filler.

Translations are fine if you don't care about linguistics and it would actually be an insane waste of time to learn German just to pick up on some obscure linguistic flourish Kafka made when you could easily just Google it.

King is a good writer, just not a good thinker.

Holy books only have literary significance. There is absolutely no logical reason to believe in God or anything that isn't physically/ scientifically demonstrable.

DFW was a genius.

Joyce was a genius, but he made the incredibly stupid decision to obscure his genius.

[Anonymous No.9948841]

>>9948124
Why?

[Anonymous No.9948899]

>>9948838
Please go back to r/books, where you belong.

[Anonymous No.9948929]

>>9948838
this is awful, across the board

[Anonymous No.9948946]

Every second we spend on the internet actively makes us retarded and discontent.

[Anonymous No.9948953]

>>9948000
No its not

[Anonymous No.9948959]

Reading the Greeks is a waste of time for anyone who's not a philologist

[Anonymous No.9948974]

>>9946848
how do you explain the fact that the best writers were also the most well-read? I don't know about the earlier greats like Shakespeare, Milton, etc. (though Dante was clearly extremely well-read), but Joyce, Beckett, Borges, and virtually every other significant author read a SHIT load.

[Anonymous No.9948975]

>>9948899
>>9948929
>Basement dwelling gatekeepers don't even respond to the points

Back to ribbit

[Anonymous No.9949000]

>>9948946
Retarded yes, discontent I'm not so sure

[Anonymous No.9949049]

>>9948838
GUYS! GUYS! HE ATTACKED RELIGIOUS BELIEVE!! QUICK! CALL HIM AUTISTIC BEFORE THE THREAD DIES!!!

[Anonymous No.9949057]

>>9948325
>talks about camus
>doesn't mention the fall
come on man that's his best book. The stranger is child's play in comparison

[Anonymous No.9949129]

Stream of consciousness makes me physically ill to read, and I think anyone trying to employ it is probably just full of themselves.
The Sun Also Rises is wholly worthless.

[Anonymous No.9949145]

>>9948595
>doesn't read the Greeks
>associates with plebs
>lies to plebs to feel superior
You are an absolute pseud, anon.

[Anonymous No.9949150]

>>9948834
Serious question: are you in highschool?

[Anonymous No.9949151]

>>9948834
not that anon, but Camus is indeed pretty mediocre. He's not terrible, just not Dostoevsky tier.

[Anonymous No.9949172]

>>9949151
Can't wait for someone to reply to you and insist that Dostoevsky is terrible

[Anonymous No.9949181]

>>9946841
Russian writers are the worst (except Gogol and Turgenev).

[Anonymous No.9949182]

>>9949172
kek

[Anonymous No.9949288]

The far majority of critics of religion are experts in their respective field but laymen at best when it comes to criticizing religion and accurately representing/understanding the theology they're attempting to attack. IE Nietzsche, Dawkins, Hitchens etc. Sam Harris is only marginally better and Bart Ehrman is probably the best that I know of

[Anonymous No.9949381]

>>9948759
>implying you need anything more than an American high school education to understand any of these

[Anonymous No.9949408]

>>9947844
childish

[Anonymous No.9949410]

Ulysses is pretentious

[Anonymous No.9949420]

>>9946841
Cormac McCarthy's storytelling ability is ropy shits falling through a sweaty asshole.

[Anonymous No.9949426]

>>9948021
>Akio: It hasn't been that long since then, but everybody's forgotten about her completely.
>Anthy: That person hasn't vanished. She's merely left your world.

[Anonymous No.9949542]

>>9948834
high
school
chump

[Anonymous No.9949549]

>>9948414
The fuck? Annabel Lee is on the same tier. Diving into his literal perverse nature is as good as understanding his paranoia.

[Anonymous No.9950262]

>>9949381
I understood them, but did not feel i'd gotten much out of them for the time invested. Old Testament especially being padded out with genealogies and reams of laws that are pointless to read.

[Anonymous No.9950270]

>>9949151
Dostoevsky is terrible

[Anonymous No.9950488]

I don't care about what /lit/ recommends

[Anonymous No.9950694]

>>9949288
One of the largest problems with them is they attempt to criticise religion from both a ecumenical and secular point of view, which any half-decent orthodox, conservative or traditional theologian won't even entertain.

Like how can anybody take academic biblical criticism seriously when half the department hold absolutely bonkers opinions like "Judas never existed, he was a later addition personifying the Jewish state" or that "Mary was a prostitute".

[Anonymous No.9950704]

>>9946841

[Anonymous No.9950788]

>>9949288
>IE Nietzsche
>Sam Harris is...better

Ok, you've proven that you yourself have no conception of anything of relevance worth talking about.

[Anonymous No.9950807]

>>9950788
why post if you're going to say literally nothing
you could have simply said "I disagree" and your post would still be just as useless as the one you chose to type out

[Anonymous No.9950812]

Popularity is the only somewhat objective way to determine the literally merit of a book.

[Anonymous No.9950844]

>>9950812
>the literally merit

[Anonymous No.9950852]

Reading anything except the Greeks is a waste of time.

[Anonymous No.9950863]

>>9950852
definitely applies to your post

[Anonymous No.9950872]

>>9948756
The live action is painfully underrated tho, even tho its all corny and shit the writing is amazing

[Anonymous No.9950873]

>>9950807
Please explain to me hoe Sam Harris's understanding of religion is better. I will give an exception for his understanding of Buddhism, as I hold that Nietzsche genuinely misunderstood it in significant ways, but Harris's comprehension of Christianity simply pales.

[Anonymous No.9950881]

>>9949049
>Being an atheist in 2017
If he wants to be a brainlet let him be

[Anonymous No.9950884]

>>9949129
You're not wrong

[Anonymous No.9950894]

>>9950872
>The live action is painfully underrated tho

No it's not, if anything it's overrated as everyone who brings it up praises it despite how awful the acting is in general.

Now, the musicals on the other hand, they are overlooked at fuck in the west and many of them are far better adaptations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvPk3GlfqVA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wz4j_MvRJY

[Anonymous No.9950932]

Authorial intent matters tremendously.

[Anonymous No.9950942]

>>9948823
God, I hope people you try to write and publish one day.

[Anonymous No.9950953]

>>9946841
Infinite Jest is the product of a man spending too much time writing not enough time deleting, a consequence of which is having bit of more than he could chew. Some great stuff about substance abuse and tennis, though.

[Anonymous No.9950965]

>>9950953
>Some great stuff about substance abuse and tennis, though.

Relevant

[Anonymous No.9950969]

>>9948481
It's fucking 200 episodes and about half of that is bad.

[Anonymous No.9950979]

E7 is actually the greatest achievement in art. Nothing else can come close.

[Anonymous No.9951015]

>>9950953
>>9950965

[Anonymous No.9951019]

>>9950969
patrician. after ikuhara leaves the show turns bunk

>>9950979
oh, it's you again

[Anonymous No.9951035]

>>9951019
You now realize that both of your posts were in response to one person.
Of course it went to bunk after its main, and initial, artistic driving force left. A car goes to bunk when the driver leaves and its left to the toddlers to manage.

[Anonymous No.9951235]

>>9948974
Elite schooling in the place of Joyce and Borghes (I can't speak on Becket because I don't know and cbf for being a Wikipedia pseud) and being at the right place in the right time/having the right conections (which one could definitely say for Becket/Borghes)

[Anonymous No.9951249]

>>9946841
To kill a mockingbird is the worst fucking book I've ever read

[Anonymous No.9951260]

>>9946841

Most philosophy is honestly garbage, the more you read it the more you realize most philosophers have totally lose grounding with the real world and get stuck in abstraction. Most philosophy is just arguing about semantics and abstract possibilities. The older I get the more I prefer language that emphasizes action over abstraction

[Anonymous No.9951264]

>>9951260
>real world
Doesn't exist

[Anonymous No.9951280]

>>9948974
Obviously being well read will help you emulate great styles. But if you have nothing to say, it doesn't matter how well you can write.

[Anonymous No.9951337]

>>9951035
death of the author broe
also iku didnt direct season 1, he was an episode director. he didnt direct the filler arc of R either

[Anonymous No.9951404]

No one on this board has any idea what they're talking about

[Anonymous No.9951417]

>>9951337
I didn't say he directed it, I said he was the artistic drive.

[Anonymous No.9951418]

>>9950694
Curious anon, as someone trying to return to his Catholic faith from atheism, could you expound further on this and why it's so? As well as examples of ecumenical and secular grounds?

>>9951404
You're not wrong.

I have mixed feelings on /lit/'s hatred of genre fiction. I'm sure many authors are simply trying to tell stories and I don't think there's always something wrong with that, but I do think some authors aspire to greater stuff.

Call me a pseud, but I don't like Death of the Author and think that many arguments for given texts are just pulled out someone's ass and that it allows us to say anything we want about the text.

[Anonymous No.9951421]

DFW is mediocre in such an aggressive way that it's completely depressing to read his work. IJ is nothing but the desperate attempt of a desperate man to prove to himself that he isn't banal. It should surprise no one that he killed himself.
I'm basically the same so I try to stay away from his work

[Anonymous No.9951456]

>>9948218
Yes there are?

[Anonymous No.9951556]

>>9946841
God Emperor of Dune is the greatest book ever written and /sffg/ is always the worst thread on /lit/.

[Anonymous No.9951565]

tao lin could be a great writer if he tried just a little bit harder and laid off the drugs for a while

[Anonymous No.9951606]

>>9949151
Dostoievsky is Camus tier

[Anonymous No.9951624]

>>9951418
i used to feel the same way about the death of the author before i realized that it is the only thing saving literature from the tyranny of resentment-based criticism.

[Anonymous No.9951665]

>>9946841
Achewood has the best characterization of any work in the English language.

[Anonymous No.9951730]

>>9948974
read Milton's biography, he probbably read a shit ton more than all the other names you tossed out

[Anonymous No.9952171]

>>9951456
sorry i should specify that i'm from britbongtopia so we don't have sailor moon at all over here outside of the 90s

same for no re-release of the original evangelion series

[Anonymous No.9952252]

>>9952171
Just stop being a degenerate and it shan't matter.

[Anonymous No.9952583]

>>9951418
>could you expound further on this and why it's so?
Check out https://mosaicmagazine.com/essay/2017/07/the-corruption-of-biblical-studies/

It applies to Christian Biblical studies as well, even the responses defending Academia are hilarious because it basically confirms the entire field is "corrupt" but insists you shouldn't care because they're better than you.

[Anonymous No.9952612]

>>9952583
Remember Catholic and Lutheran priests and theologians aren't trained in academic biblical studies but seminaries, the Universities then literally beg for people with seminary degrees to teach theology and religious studies courses, Yale is famous for this.

[soma No.9952799]

>>9948225
Haha yes friend I also hate post. Modernism.

[Anonymous No.9952905]

>>9946841
There are only about 10 to 15 great fiction books/writers. The rest are almost a waste of time, as you'd be better off re-reading one of these than venturing into other fiction.

>Iliad & Odyssey
>Complete Works of Shakespeare
>Divine Comedy
>Don Quixote
>Brothers Karamazov and other Dostoevsky books
>War & Peace and other Tolstoy
>In Search of Lost Time
>Moby Dick
>Ulysses and other Joyce works
>Kafka complete works
>Chekhov complete works
>Faust
>Middlemarch

[Anonymous No.9953050]

>>9948975
>gatekeeping

You're the redditor sweetie

[Anonymous No.9953059]

Blank verse is impossible to enjoy. Maybe it's cause I'm Russian and shit, but if there's no rhyme I immediately drop the poem.

[Anonymous No.9953066]

lol this thread
contrarian =/= stupid
there's a guy in here who thinks the stranger is a fucking masterpiece, what the fuck. /lit/ has fallen

[Anonymous No.9953084]

>>9947286
>anime
I might agree with you if not for this. All anime is trash. Even the "deep" stuff is stilted, hamfisted imagery steeped in decades-old Japanese archetypes and cliches.

[Anonymous No.9953164]

>>9952905
>he's this spooked by 'the canon'
pseud

[Anonymous No.9953179]

>>9953164
fuck off, it's his unpopular opinion

[Anonymous No.9953579]

>>9951260
Shit opinion.

[Anonymous No.9953586]

Hemingway loved to have his smooth boipucci pounded like a World War One trench

[Anonymous No.9953600]

>>9947844

Hello fellow 2000 IQ poster.

[Anonymous No.9953617]

>>9946863
my diary desu > all other literature

[Anonymous No.9954454]

>>9953059
Fucken a Paul chowder

Check out
Shakey baby - Anthony and Cleopatra
Cowper - the task
Thompson - the seasons
Pratt - towards the last spike
Betjan - summoned by bells
Hecht - Venetian vespers

Don't read Wordsworth's prelude or paradise lost. Please consider Shapiro's essay on rime

Blank verse is one of the hardest forms to master because of its volubility

Happy to follow up on any questioned ruskie anon

[Anonymous No.9954492]

Eliot was a hack and only made popular by Pound. There are much better modernist poets.

[Anonymous No.9954512]

>>9946841

>Hemingway's pace and style are boring asf
>a lot of nonfiction science writers have good prose but are ignored because they write about necessarily structured material
>not sure if this one is too unpopular but deconstructionists and postmodernists are guilty of writing a amalgamation of obfuscatory, impregnable nonsense until proven otherwise. i.e. their movement can become focused and not a scattered array of nonsense interpretations from Heidegger to Derrida

[Anonymous No.9954934]

>>9954454
I couldn't get into Milton, yeah. Will check your picks.

[Anonymous No.9954980]

/lit/ has become a place for others to circlejerk their meme-tier knowledge of literature.

[Anonymous No.9955009]

>>9952905
>kafka complete works
none of his works are complete

[Anonymous No.9955020]

>>9950262
>pointless to read the laws of God

[Anonymous No.9955077]

>>9954512
>>a lot of nonfiction science writers have good prose but are ignored because they write about necessarily structured material
Interesting, any personal favorites?

[Anonymous No.9955081]

>>9947822
>With K-ON
ruined it

[Anonymous No.9955105]

>>9946841
Invisible style weakens reading comprehension.

[Anonymous No.9955120]

>>9948823
>he read the translation

[Anonymous No.9955121]

If somebody today created the concept of the Tao, it would be dubbed new age nonsense that just applies itself to the universal notion of dualism and common sense.

all taoism has going for it is that it's old as hell, and as it should be because it's really simple, and covering it in proverbs does nothing but make it /seem/. most adherants actually forget that the bulk of the 'religion' and mythology based around the tao is just as messy and full of drama as any of the abrahamic faiths. They like to ignore that and harp on about how peaceful they are while strumming their own ego.

also the I ching is useless.

[Anonymous No.9955124]

If somebody today created the concept of the Tao, it would be dubbed new age nonsense that just applies itself to the universal notion of dualism and common sense.

all taoism has going for it is that it's old as hell, and as it should be because it's really simple, and covering it in proverbs does nothing but make it /seem/ mystical. most adherants actually forget that the bulk of the 'religion' and mythology based around the tao is just as messy and full of drama as any of the abrahamic faiths. They like to ignore that and harp on about how peaceful they are while strumming their own ego.

also the I ching is useless.

[Anonymous No.9955272]

Plato's Republic was trash. It was three-hundred pages of naive political opinions combined with weak reasoning. I don't get why it is the foundation of philosophy when other philosophers were far superior.

[Anonymous No.9955342]

Feminist political "thought" is literal cancer. It consists of:
>Identifying a real-world problem
>Using ridiculous leaps of logic to connect the problem to sexism (feminist Marxism, eco-feminism, anarcha-feminism, etc.)
>Claim fighting this problem is fighting the patriarchy
>Use this to highjack other movements for free advertisement
>Create rifts in the movement and call everyone who tries to solve the problem without feminism sexist
The fact that people actually take feminist "literature" seriously is ridiculous. And yes, this is relevant to /lit/, as feminist writings are a huge source of this.

[Anonymous No.9955346]

>>9955342
Why do people think posting this here is contrarian?

[Anonymous No.9955366]

>>9955272
>judging plato based on republic

[Anonymous No.9955452]

>>9955272
But dude, it wasn't REALLY about politics and how you'd implement them, that's just like, a metaphor for the ideals of the form of justice expressed through the soul of man 'n shit.

[Anonymous No.9955482]

Brothers Karamazov is a masterpiece and Crime and Punishment is absolute dogshit

[Anonymous No.9955484]

>>9955366
Don't get me wrong, I've read his other writings, and I found them to be pretty good. However, The Republic is his most popular work, and I just don't get it. Meno tackled the same subject in a much more concise and logically-sound way.

[Anonymous No.9955505]

>>9955346
I was trying to tackle feminism in a way that others don't. Most people are either brainwashed into blindly accepting it, or hate it because "MUH DEGENERACY! MUH VIDEO GAMES!" Despite feminism being terrible, people hardly ever hate it for the right reasons.

[Anonymous No.9955515]

>>9948325
Agree with mediocre plague except the description of the boy dying was pretty good.

[Anonymous No.9955536]

>>9946862
I hate you.

[Anonymous No.9955543]

>>9955505
I literally see this from "I'm not an MRA, I just believe in true gender equality and dislike feminism"-type guys every day.

[Anonymous No.9955548]

>>9955482
This is considered contrarian?

[Anonymous No.9955561]

I think people look way too deeply into certain literature.
In other words, certain authors with one-hit wonder books didn't actually mean to do half the cool shit they did, or people just interpreted it as much more profound that what the author intended. Then the author took credit for it as some master stroke of genius, and went on to write a total of 0 more amazing works.

To further the point, if you're actually a genius then you will have multiple genius works. If you have one genius work and everything else sucked, you're just a regular old idiot.

[Anonymous No.9955606]

>>9948838
>There is absolutely no logical reason to believe in God or anything that isn't physically/ scientifically demonstrable.

[Anonymous No.9955615]

I would burn all my books and never read again if the trade off was genuine affection with another

[Anonymous No.9955620]

>>9955615
>his books didnt help him figure out how to experience genuine mutual affection with another human

Post your shelf you pleb

[Anonymous No.9955627]

>>9946856
is this considered contrarian?

[Anonymous No.9955696]

Seymour an Introduction is Salinger's masterpiece.

[Anonymous No.9955721]

>>9955505
This is one of the most banal things posted in this thread
Congrats I guess

[Anonymous No.9955734]

>>9955548
Plenty of people here love C&P

[Anonymous No.9955735]

>>9955615
maybe you need to work on your personality

[Anonymous No.9955777]

anime is shit

[Anonymous No.9955782]

>>9955777
trips for truth

[Anonymous No.9955823]

>>9947975
i have, its a great poem. but its not as good as it is made out to be.

[Anonymous No.9955834]

>>9955548
most people think the opposite

[Anonymous No.9956011]

>>9955081
>Hating the only modern anime who is memorable and good
Guess shit taste can't be cured after all

[Anonymous No.9956027]

>>9956011
see
>>9955777

[Anonymous No.9956161]

infinite jest stands at the centre of the universe

[Anonymous No.9956197]

>>9956161
yeah 'cus it's so massive that everything revolves around it

[Anonymous No.9956268]

>>9956197
readung just 200 pages a day one could finish infinite jest in under a year

[Anonymous No.9956294]

>>9946841
this is water

[Anonymous No.9956495]

>>9946841
The Catcher in the Rye is utter shit.

[Anonymous No.9957080]

>>9956027
K-ON and Sailor Moon are more than just anime you dense brainlet cunt

[Anonymous No.9957487]

>>9955484
i love plato, but yeah republic is a bit bizarre. it would probably be better if he had finished the sequel trilogy. as it stands republic's value lies in micro-interactions between the disputing parties, not in the model of the 'ideal' city

[Anonymous No.9957610]

Sailor Jupiter is my wife

[Anonymous No.9957640]

>>9957610
she's already spoken for

[Anonymous No.9957655]

>>9957640
Too late, I'm already married to her.

[Anonymous No.9957711]

>>9946841

>DFW is an overrated hack who's popularity has led to a huge influx of hipsters and pseuds who have no real understanding or appreciation of literature.
>Gene Wolfe is the greatest living writer and in contention for the greatest writer post WWII and Peace is his masterpiece.
>Melville is better than Shakespeare
>Chesterton is the most criminally under read and underappreciated writer of the 20th century, both commercially and critically.
>To go along with this last point, Lepanto is the greatest narrative poem of the 20th century.
>The Iliad is superior to The Odyssey
>Sartre is utter trash
>Camus' only great novel is The Plague
>Langston Hughes was possibly the greatest 20th century poet, only rivaled by Yeats and Eliot.
>Genre Fiction contains more patrician writers, post WWII, than 'mainstream literary fiction'.
>Flannery O'Connor is the greatest short story writer of all time.

Have fun flaming, fags.

[Anonymous No.9957785]

>>9957711
That's nice and all, but how is that related to Sailor Moon?

[Anonymous No.9957786]

Literature should not be a puzzle

Finnegan's Wake is a masturbatory waste of time, and is only enjoyable because of it's surface level lyrical qualities

The Sorrows of Young Werther is bad literature

William Faulkner is more tortuous to read than Finnegan's Wake, and most of his stuff is quite bad, Hemingway was right

Harold Bloom has terrible opinions on literature

Australian literature is not trash

Hamlet is not Shakespeare's best

The Pale King's tax bits are terrible, even if they are the main point

The Outsider, and Meursault in particular, is satire of the French citizen in the context of Occupied France

Virginia Wolf was a terrible writer

[Anonymous No.9957795]

>>9946867
>*holds up spork*

[Anonymous No.9958440]

>>9950863
Kkek

[Anonymous No.9958454]

>>9946841
In Search of almost Time is the best work of art of all time

[Anonymous No.9958455]

>>9957711
>>The Iliad is superior to The Odyssey
Not contrarian at all. Agreed on Chesterton and Sartre, rest is wrong.

[Anonymous No.9958942]

>>9950863
Kek

[Anonymous No.9959855]

>>9957786
>Literature should not be a puzzle
This is where I tend to hate literature and is kind of why I switched my Major. Again, call me a pseud, but I think writing can often end up being pretentious because writers don't want their books to be enjoyed, they want them to be deep. And in cases of both, many people just care about how deep it is.

[Anonymous No.9959875]

>>9959855
A good writer is the one who can make his books deep (if he so wishes) and enjoyable.
That again, I need to disagree with you that, I find that if a book dosen't try to break the readers confort zone, it isent realy worth my time.
That said, I too will admit that, from time to time, I need a little break from more serious stuff and take one YA or another.
Tho I will also say this: not all YA is shallow garbage, some are actualy, realy good.

[Anonymous No.9959893]

>>9959875
I never said it shouldn't try to break a comfort zone. A book can be enjoyable while breaking them. My issue is that trying to be deep and give your books lots of meaning does not always result in a good book.

[Anonymous No.9960102]

I love how every board just flat out agrees that Sailor Moon is awesome without any controversy.

[Anonymous No.9960182]

>>9957610
I don't think there's a better wife material in all fiction than Sailor Jupiter.

[Anonymous No.9960242]

I'm about 50 pages into this and it's fucking boring. I felt the same way when I read the metamorphosis in high school. Does it get any better? Or should I just give up on Kafka entirely?

[Anonymous No.9960245]

>>9948055
Ok this is the first one that got to me. No they fucking won't

[Anonymous No.9960252]

>>9960242
Read A Hunger Artist.

[Anonymous No.9960536]

>>9950812
That's stupid. What works for one reader does nothing for another. 'Literary merit' is just a term people use as an appeal to authority to back-up their tastes.

[Anonymous No.9960538]

>>9950863
this is the first time i've laughed out loud to a 4chan post in years. thank you anon.

[Anonymous No.9960539]

>>9955734
can confirm, I love me some CP

[Anonymous No.9960555]

>>9954980
welcome to 4chan

[Anonymous No.9960576]

one hundred years of solitude is massively overrated

[Anonymous No.9960581]

>>9955561
To be fair, lot of struggling artists put their entire soul into a work, and when it becomes popular, they don't really have anything else interesting to say.

[Anonymous No.9961061]

>>9950807
Try not posting something wrong in the first place.

[Anonymous No.9961296]

>>9948055
Lol, trying to justify all the time and money invest in his books anon?

[Anonymous No.9961334]

Everysingle meme in this board is retarded, and people that use meme words like brainlet, patrician, pleb, cuck etc are fucking morons, a clear indication of someone that doesn't read
Translations, expecially modern translations are most of the time amazing. Despite what this board says there are great translations of ulysses, pynchon and many others out there
Also people that shit on translations are also a clear indication of someone that doesn't read
The beat generation is close to worthless for literature. The likes os Kerouak and Bukowski are only ok to be liked if you are under 16

[Anonymous No.9961813]

Sailor Moon has more literary value than anything DFW has written

[Anonymous No.9961844]

Nabokov is a tasteless faggot and should have stuck to cumming on butterflies
Jane Austen, Bronteshit and assorted chick lit is beyond bad, actually detrimental to society
Camus was right yet Sartre is worthless
Julius Evola's work is extremely pragmatic, increasingly relevant and useful every day
Jordan Peterson isn't so bad and is even an admirable man
Dostoevsky was wrong and I am Raskolnikov but superior
Mishima wasn't homosexual at all

[Anonymous No.9961879]

>>9948221

[Anonymous No.9962268]

>>9946841
Faulkner was a charlatan.

[Anonymous No.9962275]

>>9946841
style and conceit pales next to style and honesty
hwbt that

[Anonymous No.9962280]

>>9948055
>to some extent
So you didn't really have the courage of your convictions after all.

You wanted to state that
>Stephen King's reputation will grow after his death and his writings will be appreciated as literature by future generations.
But deep down you know this will not happen so you added:
>to some extent

[Anonymous No.9962337]

>>9953084
Anon said «can», not «is».

[Anonymous No.9962349]

>>9955124
As is the case with many very old compositions, philosophies and most religions.

[Anonymous No.9962361]

>>9960539
JAJAJA YOU MAKE ME LAUGH, HUMAN

[Anonymous No.9962371]

>>9961334
I agree with this Anon. Although, translations are inferior when the author is a very careful picker of words and a player of the language intricacies; doesn't mean they're worthless though.

[Anonymous No.9962375]

Hesse is old times german Coelho.

[Anonymous No.9962613]

>>9949410
common knowledge.

[Anonymous No.9962617]

>>9951421
oh, how little you know about Wallace.

[Anonymous No.9962805]

umineko is the pinnacle of epic drama

[Anonymous No.9962817]

VNs have great potential as a literary medium, but no writer has effectively been able to use them yet.

Children's books typically have more depth than YA.

You should aim to read literary fiction, genre fiction, and philosophical works in equal proportions. Use the genre fiction to wind down from the other two, otherwise your brain will be too tired to appreciate it.

Aristotle's insights were new but he wasn't a good writer and you can more effectively get his insights by reading medieval authors (particularly Aquinas).

Harry Potter is rubbish in all aspects, apart from being able to use/develop background characters more effectively than most other books.

[Anonymous No.9962923]

>>9962805
Umineko is the pinnacle of shit.

>>9962817
VNs suffer from the same problem that video games do, in that the potential for high art is very high, but because of the numerous people involved - in addition to the corporate environment that it exists - the idea that it will ever reach its true potential ceiling feels unrealistic.

This isn't to mention that many translators for the medium are terrible and ruin any semblance of creative writing. Regardless of its faults, I still occasionally enjoy a VN.

[Anonymous No.9962983]

>>9957786
>Finnegan's Wake is a masturbatory waste of time
>William Faulkner is more tortuous to read than Finnegan's Wake
hi nabokov

[Anonymous No.9963000]

>>9948221
pic related

>>9961879
this

[Anonymous No.9963096]

>>9962617
Enlighten me

[Anonymous No.9963339]

>>9960102
/a/ doesn't

[Anonymous No.9963397]

>>9948759
Homer is definitely not fucking unreadable, that's a straight up lie

[Anonymous No.9963508]

>>9946848
I think it's more important that whatever it is that you've read you've read well. Not all reading is equal. Some reading you can barely call reading at all.

Of course you're more likely to be a good reader if you've read alot of books worth reader.

[Anonymous No.9963861]

I really enjoyed Kaufman's translations of Nietzsche's poems in The Gay Science

[Anonymous No.9964524]

>>9946841
Poetry should have disappeared when written language was developed. It's role was memorization of stories. Written records make it pointless drivel. Fuck rhyme.

[Anonymous No.9964535]

>>9946841
First Person story telling is cancer.

[Anonymous No.9964731]

>>9957786
>The Sorrows of Young Werther is bad literature

Goethe was mocking the literature at that time. He was really pissed because Europe took it seriously.

[Anonymous No.9964738]

this is a theory of 4chan and maybe reddit however reddit i have not spent enough time on to say. 4chan is a cybernetic Death Cult, it is an undercover unwitting subculture which parasitically steals the core being of those weak enough to be comforted by its ills. it is a real thing, a prototype of the future’s normative social groups/types. it is, in spite of its insisting not, a hivemind, wherein its own members maintain a healthy essayistic disagreeance with one another as a matter of principle and so as to contain as diverse data banks as possible. it is a great swirling cloud of self propagating information collection so as to represent a subgroup (ex. high in dependency, low in confidence, the terminally lazy ETC) as emboldened and thereby empowered by image, a biological amassing of a herd, which again engages infighting because its subjects will never fight a few core principles: boogeyman complex, pol, sjw, jews, capitalists it is a game of ping pong, neither side stops to ask is this an accurate assessment or fear? and they become swept up in a game of alarmist propagation for points.

[Anonymous No.9964786]

>>9964524
If anyone actually believe this, then that person has completely missed the point of poetry. I mean, yeah, it has the mnemonic aspect as a key element of its initial development, but it is way more than that.

[Anonymous No.9964794]

>>9947912
There was a point in history there weren't drawings or musics, so people just created without seeing drawings or listening music. It was shit, but it improved over time as people started doing it more.

You CAN write the next masterpiece without ever reading anything after learning how to read and write. You just have to write and be critical of your work.

[Anonymous No.9964795]

>>9946841
Jane Austen wrote good pulpy literature, but not good literature.

[Anonymous No.9964798]

>>9964786
>>9964524
reccomend me some philosophy of poetry

[Anonymous No.9965532]

Murakami is a good writer.

[Anonymous No.9965576]

Almost all poetry is shitty, meaningless drivel.
There is a thin line between a poetic representation of one's thoughts and jut pretentious, vague allegory.
Poems must have a concise, underlying context to hold any valuable meaning to the reader. That's why poetry for the sake of poetry is asinine.
On the other hand, poetry within books can be powerful. The context is already given to the reader, and the symbolism the author wishes to convey will almost always be recognized.

[Anonymous No.9965606]

>>9962817
>Children's books typically have more depth than YA.

How is this in any way controversial?

[Anonymous No.9965624]

>>9946841
Books by people who didn't experience poverty or otherwise had horrible lives, are generally worthless.

[Anonymous No.9965635]

>>9957786
>Literature should not be a puzzle
Not contrarian at all.
>Australian literature is not trash
THIS however

[Anonymous No.9965898]

Hardboiled detective stories are without a doubt the best examples of American literature, both in terms of quality and in typifying the culture they originate from. Superficially dated as they are, novels like The Big Sleep and the Maltese Falcon have themes that ring true for American culture now just as well as they did when they were written. In fact, these stories are probably more truly American now than they have been for decades.

[Anonymous No.9965925]

>>9946841
joyce was an idiot

[Anonymous No.9965938]

>>9948974
>how do you explain the fact that the best writers were also the most well-read?
because creativity and curiosity are important to writing well. It's a venn diagram

[Anonymous No.9965970]

>>9946841

The fiction celebrated by academia is a complete abomination of the artform. These people are scholars, devoid of taste, not artists, and are polluting the tradition of storytelling and the novel with utter garbage like Faulkner, Joyce, McCarthy, Pynchon, DeLillo, Melville... just god-awful storytellers. People who write for all the wrong reasons.

I'm not surprised. This is typical of any social activity. People respect image and lack understanding. Who wants to be a storyteller when you can be a brilliant, zeitgeist-capturing literary genius? A Respected creator of Serious Literature.

[Anonymous No.9965973]

>>9953084
You should look up Welcome to the NHK. Most anime is trash, but the same can be said for literature. For some reason it just hit hard and felt very real.

[Anonymous No.9965976]

>>9965973
i watched that because of a girl i loved as a teen who always cucked me... she liked it... i saw her the other day... i just frowned and ignored her... she'd call me gay and i'd bag for a kiss or hug her... ugh

[Anonymous No.9966086]

>>9950932
fuck off aramini

[Anonymous No.9967041]

>>9964731
just because it's a parody doesn't make it good

also, no, you are wrong sir

[Anonymous No.9967051]

>>9965970
Although I feel this should be wrong, I can't help but agree with it. Like I said before, why bother writing something enjoyable when you can write something deep?

[Anonymous No.9967451]

is "onpu hot" a controversial opinion?

[Anonymous No.9968051]

>>9965970
Some of those are great storytellers though

[saucy No.9968063]

The literary environment is the one environment where it is okay to be sexist, racist and ageist.

[Anonymous No.9968626]

>>9965624
What makes you think that anon?

[Anonymous No.9969726]

>>9968063
Wtf I suddenly love the literary environment!

[Anonymous No.9969860]

Literary fiction is defined almost entirely by intertextuality with popular historical works.

[Anonymous No.9969875]

The Great Gatsby was bad

[Anonymous No.9969914]

>>9952905
>no aeneid

[Anonymous No.9969916]

>>9949408
I see you've never seen the show

[Anonymous No.9969924]

>>9957786
Virginia Wolf was a terrible writer

[Anonymous No.9969929]

>>9963339
Yea they have cancerous seasonal taste, pleb board who is only useful to farm reaction pics

More news at 7

[Anonymous No.9969934]

I vastly prefer modern lit to classics with the exception of Shakespeare. I have an English degree.

[Anonymous No.9969940]

>>9946841
The odyssey and the Iliad are meh tier at best. Same for other Greek classics like oedipus Rex, Antigone and Prometheus bound.

[Anonymous No.9970316]

>Most pomo is shit
>Dickens is shit
>Most magnum opuses are rambling self indulgent shitty books
>Literary theory is bs
>Most of lit and the dumb masses claim to like things only because they are told to like them
>Most classic books would be dismissed as shit if released today- not saying they deserve to but they would be

[Anonymous No.9970556]

The canon is shit
The Greeks are boring, Plato is stupid and Socrates is a fictional character
William S. Burroughs is the end boss of western literature and thought
Song lyrics have literary merit and Beck is a great poet
African literature is only beaten by a few Irishmen
Alcohol is great for writing
Nietzsches only merit is originality and elegant prose, and stirners only accomplishment is mental autofellatio
Hume > Kant
Post modernism is not a Jewish conspiracy
Cultural elitism on /lit/ is a dead give away of stupidity and insecurity
You all suck :^)

[Anonymous No.9971377]

>>9965576
>Poems must have a concise, underlying context to hold any valuable meaning to the reader.
Explain

[Anonymous No.9972232]

>>9955482
Hi Nabokov

[Anonymous No.9972241]

>>9965624
boy, i sure dodged a bullet there!

[Anonymous No.9972318]

>>9956495
This tbqhwyf

[Anonymous No.9972333]

>>9946841
>Young Adult/Teen books > Adult fiction
Adult fiction is so fucking boring and pretentious at times. If I wanted to read something hyper realistic, I'd read non-fiction because at least I'm getting knowledge out of it.

[Anonymous No.9972339]

>>9948838
>Holy books only have literary significance.
yes

>There is absolutely no logical reason to believe in God or anything that isn't physically/ scientifically demonstrable.
no

[Anonymous No.9972405]

>>9962923
Agreed, "great" art is rarely commercial. That leaves independent Japanese developers and OELVN developers. Works by small Japanese developers are unlikely to be satisfactorily translated (and they don't take the medium seriously anyway, most doujin VNs are glorified H-games), and although KS was a great step in the right direction for OELVNs, post-KS OELVNs (apart from possibly Christine Love's) have merely copied its formula rather than attempt to write character/theme-driven stories which was how KS stood out in the first place.

>>9965606
Maybe not on this board, but if you asked the general public, most would agree YA is more complex because it has the word "adult" in it.

[Anonymous No.9972422]

>>9969934
Why is that?

[Anonymous No.9972426]

>>9946841

western literature has decline steadily in quality ever since the turn of the 20th century. Nonwestern literature was never good, and still isn't.

[Anonymous No.9972444]

There is something to be gained from the attention span decline

[Anonymous No.9972807]

>>9972444
You got me + nice trips.

[Anonymous No.9973135]

>>9965576
>Poems must have a concise, underlying context to hold any valuable meaning to the reader.

I mean, if you don't like poetry, whatever floats your boat, m8. But to argue that poetry by itself is nonsense is nonsense.