/lit/ - Literature

>>3912409

I think you are misunderstanding everything forever. The dialogues weren't just stories. They were told (and probably made up) with intention to showcase some beliefs. Hell, we don't even know how accurate Socrates is compared to the actual real Socrates that maybe probably actually existed?

You can safely assume that Plato's beliefs were showcased by the dialogues.

>>3912399

I never said that he wasn't worthy of being read. On many occasions in this thread, i should that he should be read and that I enjoyed reading him.

The contradiction statement was more of a response to:

>would he still recommend the republic afterwards?

It was more of a "im not even sure if he believes what he is saying" kind of thing.

>>3912389

hey im gonna fall for your obvious troll statement here.

>>but like wouldnt that mean that plato IS THE BIBLE?!?

>>3912381

I understand that. I'd like for you to tell me why you think this. Surely you have your reasons. reading an essay isn't a valid reason. it could lead one to change their opinion and give them reasons, but it definitely isn't a valid reason

>>3912374

How? And like, do you mean in the same exact kind of way as it was in the past? Or are you suggesting that its useful in other ways?

>>3912366

If anything, you just agreed with him that it isnt very relevant to our time.

>>3912361

Loolol more like a vice among philosophers

>>3912359

I've often thought this. The thing about plato, is he constantly changed his beliefs.

For example, his idea of the soul in phaedo is entirely different than his idea of the soul in the republic. IN FACT, he seems to be contradicting himself!!! Woah! Wow! WOOOOW!

>>3912343

No not at all. Also, take a look, we seem to be on the same side, I just seem to be wording things way more bluntly.

>>3910792

>you should probably learn both though

as in they are both very important to actually learning how to "philosophy." And as we've already said, it doesnt mean you have to agree with anything they have said.

I honestly don't think we've really said anything different. I've just been not as modest about things as you.

>>3912316

like, only vaguely, but, objectivism is absolutely a virtue based moral system.

>>3912320

Im mostly being facetious, dude.

>>3912305

I respect the origins of philosophy, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it ever. I don't understand you guys at all.

That said, I always did enjoy reading the ancient greeks. But still, FUCK THEM.

>>3912266

I dont think that the ancient greeks were STUPID, i think that, based on what they knew, they were pretty revolutionary. That, however, doesn't mean that they were right.

>his WRITINGS WERE A CULTURAL PHENOMENON

Honestly, you put way too much relevance on how important the actual books were instead of actually analyzing the thought process and realizing that it is obsolete. You probably major in lit, not philosophy.

Also,

>alasdair macintyre

>ayn rand

>not virtue ethics and a spiritual successor to aristotle

Do you even study philosophy?

>>3912273

>says a lot of, not all

>>3912264

appeal to authority all over that post

>he's more famous and well known than you, the necessarily means that he is smarter than you and more right.

>also, platos ideas have been around for a lot longer than ones your subscribe to!

You sound exactly like old baby boomers thinking that they know everything because they are old and awful.

>>3912258

Hey, you seem to suck greek dick. What was aristotle's biggest criticism of plato and his forms?

>>3912221

you still aren't really saying anything other than #yolo

No,

>>3912232
>>3912234

i totally can be if i wanted to.

Also, this is why litfags shouldnt philosophy. Even my professors are tired of ancient greek bullshit. Of course there is a certain respect for the development of thought and just the fact that someone was trying to answer the many questions of the universe, but that doesn't give any ANY ANY validity to ANY of what was being said back then.

Its even worse when you realize that a lot of modern philosophy (especially REALLY RECENTLY) is just plato and aristotle rehashed for modern times.

>>3912225

I have read all of that. I don't fucking care what type of society plato came from, he was fucking wrong. I respect that he tried to SOLVE THE MYSTERIES OF THE UNIVERSE, but like, so do a lot of religions. Doesn't mean that any of them are right.

>you dont agree with me and what i think. i am a platonic dickfuckbitch and therefore my idea is more real than this post and therefore its the only right thing in the universe suk my fucking dik and it cant possibly be incorrect.

Show me this realm of forms. Stop sticking up for plato, you know he's a fucking retard. Aristotle wasn't much better.

>>3912173

>hey you can't definitively prove what im saying ISN'T true. Therefore I'm right

that is the shittiest way to approach an argument

>>3911523

you mean the people who only have one life, but are brainwashed into thinking that their life is expendable for a cause that doesn't even involve them?

the militaristic mindset is a fucking tragedy.

>>3911386

you said the arbitrary word secular. you dont realize how arbitrary the world is. i think you're retarded.

>>3911390

Id honestly still think that is just people putting importance on things, more than anything else. But who knows?

>>3911455

>implying that's even close to what i said

in other words

>hey guys, i think that everything is made of water. look how we sweat. we're totally water. look at the oceans. CONDENSATION.

Yah. Look how fucked up and wrong he was. Also, plato believed that everything was made up of tiny pyramids, or something stupid like that. Don't even begin to tell me that Plato wasn't fucked up and retarded.

>>3911572

You too.

>>3911371

prove it

>>3911373

yeah that

>>3911361

I did that. I understand the progression. I don't think that there is much value to studying ancient philosophers other than the whole "yeah, look how fucked up and wrong these guy's worldviews were. look how much we've evolved."