/lit/ - Literature

I also stopped taking my "antipsychotic" meds (they make you feel like shit it's in a lot of ways a worse state of mind than a psychotic mania). Slow taper, did it semi-safely, yadda yadda. I don't know I like to talk about myself, most Americans do. And the Americans that are too shy to talk about themselves in real life talk about themselves on 4chan.

>>2842897

YES! I love Burton. Especially because the "illness" I'm recovering from is a mental one (manic-psychotic break from reality).

I like to think Burton really did see devils. Because when I was crazy I thought I could see God everywhere.

>>2842851

Maybe I am wrong. I'm not super concerned at this point in my life. I'm recovering from an illness right now and when I'm stronger I'm going to go back to Buffalo and do landscaping/carpentry stuff for a couple of years, I got my ba early (basically out of luck it's a long story) so I feel too young to go straight to grad school. Plus I want to make sure I can't be comfortable living a simple life before I go for all that.

>>2842856

Ah you're European. A Bachelor's Degree in America is damn near useless at this point because every tiny Liberal Arts college is so desperate for students that they'll let in damn near anyone. It's pretty fucked and it goes back to the GI Bill (basically veterans were allowed to go to college).

In America they keep trying to broaden "access" to college education, and call me an elitist but I swear at least 50% of the general student body did not belong in college. Like we were required to take classes on "critical thinking". And this is one of the "good schools". No Harvard but no Arizona State either.

>>2842844
>>2842846

forgot my trip

>>2842788

But basically daily practice with Latin is helping a lot. I'm unemployed and living with my parents at the moment (because "hurr imma get a bachelor's in Classics") so I have nothing but otium.

I love how the Latins didn't have leisure and business. They had otium and negotium: etymologically, "leisure" and "not-leisure".

One of my favorite things about being involved in Classics academia is that it's such a goddamn small group of people and they're all very helpful and eager to teach others.

My ultimate goal is to become a Latin teacher, but I need a Master's degree to do that, and I'm taking a couple of years away from school because I'm sick of school. But I won't let my Latin falter!

>>2842690

>Yeah, they'll often have commentaries as well. I apologize about the pedanticism, there's a premium for it where I'm taught.

Oh I don't think you were being pedantic at all! Mastering the Latin subjunctive mood is very difficult. The only way to read Latin without pedanticism is to practice pedanticism until you're pedantic for Latin grammar without thinking about it!

I'm interested in Apuleius because I've heard it suggested that the book is a sort of allegorical code for a mystery cult. I suspect mystery cults practiced meditation. They may even have had psychedelics, though maybe it's best we don't open that can of worms on 4chan.

In theory I'm very interested in the literature of late antiquity. But I'm avoiding it for now because some of those works are "too easy" to read and make reading Classical stuff more difficult than it should be. I am ESPECIALLY interested in Boethius, and Boethius' Latin is pretty much impeccable. I love Boethius so much that I have not finished his Consolatio. I started on it a few months ago and was moved so much by what little I *could* comprehend that I threw myself back into the Classics so that some day in the future I'll be able to read him comfortably.

>>2842667

Quod ut vidit iuvenis, ad magistrum suum currit et ait: "Magister, puella, quam credis esse defunctam, vivit. Et ut facilius mihi credas, spiritum praeclusum patefaciam." Adhibitis secum viribus tulit puellam in cubiculo suo et posuit super lectulum, velum divisit, calefecit oleum, madefecit lanam et effudit super pectus puellae. Sanguis vero ille, qui intus a perfrictione coagulatus fuerat, accepto tepore liquefactus est coepitque spiritus praeclusus per medullas descendere. Venis itaque patefactis aperuit puella oculos et recipiens spiritum, quem iam perdiderat, leni et balbutienti sermone ait: "Deprecor itaque, medice, ne me contingas aliter, quam oportet contingere: uxor enim regis sum et regis filia.""

>>2842624

Just something approaching precision. I'd forgotten about Perseus. They have a literal translation of all the Philippics. I don't like to look at translations until I've done my damndest to understand the passage myself (can't stand Loebs, though they were useful at one time and I wasted money on a fair number of them).

Thanks for all your help it is very illuminating. And good luck with Petronius! Novels are tough. I read Historia Apollonii Regis Tyri a couple of days ago and it was a bitch. The Latin was simple but the Late-Antiquity of it was unbearable (lots of "tua maiestas" etc.). Also there's this scene where a woman in a coma is revived by a doctor and I doubt anyone besides an expert in the history of medicine could really understand what the fuck was going on there.

"At vero adulescens tulit ampullam unguenti et ad lectum devenit puellae et detraxit a pectore vestes, unguentum fudit et omnes artus suspiciosa manu retractat, sentitque a praecordiis pectoris torporis quietem. Obstupuit iuvenis, quia cognovit puellam in falsa morte iacere. Palpat venarum indicia, rimatur auras narium; labia labiis probat: sentit gracile spirantis vitam prope luctare cum morte adultera et ait: "Supponite faculas per IIII partes." Quod cum fecissent, tentat lentas igne supposito retrahere manus, et sanguis ille, qui coagulatus fuerat, per unctionem liquefactus est.

>>2842593

Yeah my commentary suggests that Cicero was using "advocati" sarcastically and that Antony would come into the Senate with his "Veterani" at his side. That's the funnest thing about Classics, I think; people who don't care to study them think they've been done to death, but the meaning of some passages is still debatable, even after the centuries of diligent study that the Renaissance set off.

>>2842588

Ah that does make good sense. We should "habendam maxime" the "rationem pacis et oti".

[18] Though let those things be done, if they stand thus in the Acts. Why is it that the Laws and Acts of a man can be viewed as the same, a man who toga'd wandered through this Republic with power and imperium? Look for the Acts of Gracchus: the laws of Sempronia will be brought forth. Look for Sulla's, look for Cornelia's. Indeed! In what Acts is the third consulship of Pompey approved? It is approved in the Laws. If you were to ask Caesar himself what on earth it is he accomplished, toga'd in the city, he would respond that he brought forth many laws, and excellent ones to boot, but that he either wished to alter his notebooks, or not to present them, or, if he were to present them, they would no longer be Acts. I grant these things; to these things I turn a blind eye; in respect to great affairs, that is the Laws, I think the Acts of Caesor should not be dissolved.

[16] First off, I think the Acts of Caesar must be preserved, not because I agree with them (who could?), but because I think a rational republic is the root of peace. I wish Marcus Antonius were here, though without his bodyguard (I suspect he is allowed to be ill, which I yesterday was not allowed); he would teach me, or rather you, Senators, precisely how far he would defend the Acts of Caesar. Or will those Acts of Caesar stand firm which on the authority of One Man [Antony] are presented - not presented, indeed, but only spoken of - as being in his notebhooks, while those which Caesar carved in bronze, in which he desired the Laws to be, be held as nothing?

[17] I, at any rate, think there are no Acts of Caesar which are not Laws of Caesar. Or, if he promised something to someone, will it be posted, when he himself could not do it? Indeed he did not promiss many things to many people; nevertheless more benefices are discovered after he has died than were published when he was alive. But I'm not interested in changing those Laws, nor do I attempt to; with the greatest eagerness I defend his excellent Acts. Would that there were still money in the Temple of Ops! That money was bloody, but in these times, since it is not given to those whose money it is, it is necessary.

[18] Quamquam ea quoque sit effusa, si ita in actis fuit. Ecquid est, quod tam proprie dici possit actum eius, qui togatus in re publica cum potestate imperioque versatus sit, quam lex? Quaere acta Gracchi; leges Semproniae proferentur. Quaere Sullae; Corneliae. Quid? Pompei tertius consulatus in quibus actis constitit? Nempe in legibus. De Caesare ipso si quaereres, quidnam egisset in urbe et in toga, leges multas responderet se et praeclaras tulisse, chirographa vero aut mutaret aut non daret, aut, si dedisset, non istas res in actis suis duceret. Sed haec ipsa concedo; quibusdam etiam in rebus coniveo; in maximis vero rebus, id est in legibus, acta Caesaris dissolvi ferendum non puto.

(also this is copy-pasta'd from an email I sent to a professor I know hence the weird formatting)

[16] Primum igitur acta Caesaris servanda censeo, non quo probem (quis enim id quidem potest?), sed quia rationem habendam maxime arbitror pacis atque otii. Vellem adesset M. Antonius, modo sine advocatis (sed, ut opinor, licet ei minus valere, quod mihi heri per illum non licuit); doceret me vel potius vos, patres conscripti, quem ad modum ipse Caesaris acta defenderet. An in commentariolis et chirographis et libellis [se] uno auctore prolatis, [ac] ne prolatis quidem, sed tantum modo dictis, acta Caesaris firma erunt; quae ille in aes incidit, in quo populi iussa perpetuasque leges esse voluit, pro nihilo habebuntur?

[17] Equidem existimo nihil tam esse in actis Caesaris quam leges Caesaris. An, si cui quid ille promisit, id erit fixum, quod idem facere non potuit? ut multis multa promissa non fecit; quae tamen multo plura illo mortuo reperta sunt quam a vivo beneficia per omnis annos tributa et data. Sed ea non muto, non moveo; summo studio illius praeclara acta defendo. Pecunia utinam ad Opis maneret! cruenta illa quidem, sed his temporibus, quoniam iis, quorum est, non redditur, necessaria.

Any Latinfags willing to help me with my translation of Cicero's First Philippic? I'm having trouble on sections 16-18. The
translation isn't literal because that just doesn't work, and the issues Cicero is referring to are kind of obscure. But I think the general gist of the passage is, "the acta Caesaris that Antony has
been fabricating are not acta, the only acta Caesaris that should be considered Law are the ones which Caesar himself publicly declared
through bronze tablets. It is unconstitutional for Antony to bring up these new acta out of alleged notebooks." I'll first post the Latin, then my proposed translation.

>>2787191

I couldn't find it at the public library but I did find Diane Ackerman's An Alchemy of Mind.

The Mind is "an enchated loom where millions of flashing shuttles weave a dissolving pattern, always a meaningful pattern though never an abiding one; a shifting harmony of sub-patterns.

>>2787191

The image has been sav'd and I'll see if I can't find it at my town's university's library (which I get access to because my parents work for the university's hospital bahaha).

Ever since I was a child I've been interested in understanding grimoires in an allegorical sense. But you can drive yourself nuts trying to figure those texts out, figuratively speaking.

>>2787117

That stoa site is pretty fucking cool. Check this out if you're into Latin at all:

http://www.stoa.org/colloquia/

>>2787103

Neither mate. I can see both sides of most things and I can see why men like Newton found astrological "studies" rewarding. Astrology and astronomy were so closely tied up right into the Renaissance that it inspired the Catholics to work out (in theory they worked it out anyway) the intersection of divine providence with human free will.

But you don't know anything about any of that, nor do you care to learn, because you're a typical 4chan atheist. I'm an atypical /lit/-posting atheist.

I think the study of mythology is a lot like the study of astrology. It's not objectively true but it can inspire some seriously critical analysis of the times and our own lives.

I mean do I believe that the fact that the part of the ecliptic designated "Scorpio" by Western astrologers actually has any influence on how I behave? No. But it does seem to suit my personality because astrology is so vague when you get good with it that you can read any idea into the chart of any person.

>>2787087

Ah I found what you're talking about is it this?

http://www.stoa.org/diotima/anthology/wlgr/

In which case it's fascinating that she picked out that obscureish (I'd never heard of it at least) myth to talk about, even if she didn't literally mythologize.

>>2787082

That does sound fascinating. The process of the creation of new myths is every bit as interesting as the myths themselves. What was going on in her psychology, and her social environment, to make her write that, etc. Or maybe it actually is a real myth (I'd guess Orphic or some other mystery cult).

>>2787065

Its focus is Greek and Roman mythology but he ties it to Egyptian, Middle Eastern, and Christian mythology because they're all so interrelated. For example in the chapter on Aphrodite/Venus he talks about how the original Roman goddess Venus was different from Aphrodite and just took on her mythology, and how Aphrodite is probably a god directly borrowed from the Semitic Astarte.

And then how Christian monks coined the word "venereal disease" which comes from Venus (Venus in the nominative, Veneris in the genitive: the stem of the word is vener-, but a terminal -r in Latin regularly became an s, hence honos/honoris, though in later Latin honos becomes rare and it's honor in the nominative, where we get "honour" so the cycle of rhotacism was actually reversed, etc. etc.)

Only he talks about stuff like that in a way more comprehensible way than I can.

Like I don't want to steal from the book. I'd rather just read it. One more quote:

>One point of argument was whether Hades was in fact the same place or condition as sheol.,,, [T]he common people eventually decided it was. Even better, being a novel foreign import, "Hades" was free of the superstitions surrounding the dreaded word "hell." Thus a name taboo to the Greeks became a euphemism for a name taboo among Englishmen.