/sci/ - Science & Math

Why though. CS programs can be good it just depends on the university.

>>10893539
what if I just like programming? I have also interest in mathematics and physics but not enough to have a career in those subjects, but I really like programming

>>10893595

what do you intend to program?

>>10893597
Wigets

>>10893602

what is a wiget?

>>10893539
What discipline should i be in if i am a guy who likes to focus on things that aren’t relevant to me but still make me extremely angry.

>>10893607
Politics

>>10893597
I have done several apps but that was just for fun and an attempt to monetize but that didnt work out because just like all popular things they kind of need to have something special for them to go viral.

I am currently learning functional programming because thats even more interesting than regular oop, of course I am looking into AI development because thats really interesting

Computer science is for people who want to make 100k a year starting, engineering, mathematics and physics are for people who want to work at Starbucks.

>>10893539
How can you be too stupid for engineering?

I know this is a copypasta and you're trolling but still.

I'm about to start a CS degree what are some things you can tell me

>>10893637
Just get a M.S. in mathematics with minors in physics, computer engineering, and compsci.
$200k starting any job you want

>>10893635
This but unironically

>>10893635
>>10893640
Some universities have good engineering programs still. Anything which requires at least 9 credits of physics and 12 of mathematics is decent.

>>10893645
Some engineering programs even do three-variable calculus.

>>10893539
CS is basically math++ and a CS major is considered élite, capable of mastering in 1 year what would take a math major 2. The world's élite universities (Oxford, Cambridge, Hull) will tell you that as a student you are the best group they have and math students go slower than you and increase your load to crazy levels.

As a CS student, you are expected to master (continuous) calculus, discrete calculus (discrete math proofs, hypercubes for parallel algorithms), optimization (machine/deep learning, compilers), category theory (functional programming), logic (up to automated proofs, i.e. including set theory), differential equations, topology (computational geometry, distributed algorithms), probability and statistics (reinforcement learning, queueing), number theory (cryptography), graph theory (almost everywhere)... There is no functional analysis needed yet, but it's heavily used for PhD degrees anyway. You need to know all this down to the level of proving theorems if you want to achieve anything in CS While pure math & physics progress slowed down, the advances in CS are fast and accelerating. CS is the major of future. Math jobs are shrinking; CS jobs will grow even more than today. The AI revolution is here, from Google search to Uber pool to auto correct to recommendation engines, mathematicians are being left in the dust by algorithms from the 90's and just sheer brute force

>>10893637
It's a worthless degree, if you intend to do code monkey jobs a bootcamp is vastly superior and a lot shorter, if you want to do research a math degree is better because CS programs are watered down to cater people who only want to program.

>>10893808
Some CS programs are good. Stop being so simpleminded.

>>10893809
>some C.S. programs are good
Only if you're good enough to get into them.

>>10893639
Where the fuck do you get that number?

>>10893825
Anecdotal Evidence
I know half a dozen people with M.S. or PhD in maths and they all make over $200K annually before taxes

>>10893539
I'm a former CS major, when a teacher in a code monkey databases courses said that all the math requirements like calc 3 were useless and only existed to "help CS majors how to think" I knew that major was a fucking meme and changed immediately to math, all the memes are true, CS programs are fucking garbage and all the students struggle at the most basic shit like ODE.

>>10893832
>when a teacher in a code monkey databases courses said that all the math requirements like calc 3 were useless and only existed to "help CS majors how to think"
Did you ever consider that the professor was just a retard and the CS department at that uni was shit for hiring him?

>>10893670
>discrete calculus
hmm

>>10893808
>thinking a coding bootcamp actually teaches you anything
Am I being memed on?

>>10893539
When i finished highschool, i thought i will continue in university with computer science since i'm good at it.
Then after a few thoughts i concluded that it's useless and not even real and at the end, cyber stuff will come to an end so i decided to study physics instead.

>>10893539
Teaching is a job for losers who can't find a job in their domain.
Mathematics is for losers who can't apply it to anything.

>>10893546
Same reason /g/ hates Rust and /o/ hates Tesla.

>>10893651
Ok hold on for a second. Are you telling me not every other engineer besides the one in my uni have to take multivariable/vector calculus as well as 3 semesters of calculus based physics? I have already taken 10 credits of physics and working on the last 5 right now. Its required of EEs at least because some of my CE friends only had to take 2 semesters of a 5 credit each physics series.

>>10893546
Ok how is Carnegie Mellon university for CS? I heard very high things about their cs program.

>>10893539
This image is a cope made by an engineer who wants to think he's as smart as mathematicians and natural scientists

>>10894093
This post is a cope made by a math/science fag with an inferiority complex.

>>10894093
>>10894105
These posts are cope made by losers with mommy issues.

>>10894106
I don't have mommy issues.

>>10894108
That's what they all say.

>>10893539

[Citation needed]

>>10893539
Atleast they can get high paying jobs meanwhile I hope you like your 40k job teaching maths

>>10894165
>get maths PhD
>join Air Force
>after 5 years make $250,000 annually with pension and benefits
>get to make people bow down to you and say "thank you for you're serviced"

>>10894170
Do you honestly think that's what happens?

>Elitism, the thread

YIkes.

>>10893670
This pasta is a bit overcooked

>>10894178
not him but only the best of the best could pull that off, like a 1 in a generation genius.
I don't see mathtard going anywhere else except being a teacher or actually working on a bank where they actually would suceed.
these fuckers have the tendency to make themselves more important than they really are.

>>10893539
Nah. I double majored in math and CS at a school that was top 20 for both, and now I’m in grad for TCS. It’s literally just a math department with some extra funding since there are collabs with every discipline under the sun. CS is a good place if you like pure math

Can anyone offer some advice
>Loved mathematics and wanted to pursue it since freshman year of highschool
>Realize CS is easier to get a job with and would still suit my interests
>A few months ago, decide to major in CS while choosing courses for my 1st semester
>realize that CS doesn't require nearly as many pure math courses as I believed it did
>Considering switching majors
>not sure if double major in both subjects is a viable option at my school, too autistic to ask my advisors if it is
>Have no opinion on grad school yet since I didn't even begin undergrad yet

Math isn’t real

>>10894607
Just talk to your advisors
Double major
>>10894609
What does this even mean? You do know that in the actual world and work or research that CS and math are not two separate entities, right?

>>10894614
CS cannot exist without mathematics

Numbers are a manmade concept of measuring

>>10894614
>Double major
What if that isn't an option?

>>10893602
HAHA

>>10893631
E

The fact you people are so obsessed with CS goes to show you suffer from a glaring inferiority complex.
Not only did you pick a dead end major with zero career prospects but rather than bettering yourself you obsess over others who made great life choices. As such you will lie in a poor attempt to hide the fact you're a failure.

Inferior people obsess over the superior. The virgin obsesses over what chad is doing. The fact you're obsessed with us goes to show how inferior you are.
Stay mad and remember: you will always be inferior.

>>10894093
This image is a cope made by a mathematician/engineer/scientist who want to think they're smart while the computer scientist laughs on his way to the bank.

>>10894682
>Responding to a bait thread

Mathematics is for people too stupid for real world

>>10894690
>not responding to a bait thread with facts that will act as bait that will get the high school teachers seething
Step it up anon.

>>10893853
This is /sci/, the board where instead of getting a job people reply to high-school-math bait threads. Not a place I'd ask for advice for my studies.

>>10894913
B..B..but there's a 50% chance the other ball is silver

>>10893631
This.

>>10893539
cs student here.

Im stupid, to stupid for Chemestry at least.
Even if I was not lazy i would not pass.

Im doing CS with half a brain cell.
Its like studing art.

>>10894087
Where I live eng school is quite good, but there's so many people applying to eng school that the average undergad student has serious trouble with such exams as Calc 1, Baby Programming, and the mandatory B1-tier english exam. And Calc 1 exam is a fucking quiz, as in choose between A B C D. I guess things get more serious in MSc, for those who get there.

I don't trust CS majors. They can't handle any math. Some of them actually say they hate math/physics/etc.

>>10894091
The top 4 CS programs are widely regarded Stanford, UC Berkeley, MIT, and CMU. (The order here doesn't matter.)

>>10894682
this but unironically

>>10893546
jealousy. CS jobs are $$$ compared to (((real))) science.

CS is one of the few things you can take in which you are the complete master of the domain and don't accept facts just because someone told you they're correct.

>>10893625
nothing you will be coding irl once you get a cs job will be interesting though

>>10895291
CS is an evolutionary step above formalistic math, why would you want to degrade yourself to the literal apes conversing through squeaks and grunts?

>>10893832
>look at me i am so fucking smart
the post.
you are a larping retard obviously.
you don't just change majors if you have a specific goal such as to get a CS diploma and get a good job and live a comfy life. which has nothing to do with how intellectually challenging your studies are. i hope you are baiting.

>>10895594
Whatever helps you sleep at night. But they really do suck at math and statistics. Almost every CS major I interviewed can't even handle a little bit of probability.

>>10894093
nah it is what you underage retards THINK what engineers (aka adults) actually think. that's your mentality of 'manlets' 'dicklets' 'brainlets' etc. Cause you are insecure and constantly compare yourselves to others. You will grow up eventually. Adults are tired creatures who work their jobs to pay the bills. They have no time to think about shit like that.

>>10895605
What kind of a job?
No CS jobs require that.

>>10895610
algotrading
you're right, we don't really mind if our programmers don't answer those types of questions but still it's part of our interview process

>>10895291
Thats due to our mathematical notation being arbitrary and intended for lazy mathematicians to write as little as possible to express their thought process which leads to confusion

here are some examples
x is not really x, its 1*x^1. many algebra students don't understand this and just accept the consequences of this implicit notation which makes them believe math is just memorizing and repeating procedures to solving problems

the meme question 8 / 4 + 4 is another example of this poor notation in math in which if you don't remember the implicit parentheses you're going to made fun of, not because of you poor understanding of logic, but because you don't remember the rules of the notation.

In CS, everything is exact, not hidden by implied notation.

This is why CS students don't like mathematical notation

as a computer scientist i whole heartedly agree

>>10895632
>algo
ah makes sense to at least assess their general intelligence. of course i doubt most of them will ever get to work on actual algorithms though. it is mostly API backend work at best. or even some web programming. sigh.

>real science
>publishing fluffed up papers on journals full of unreplicable bullshit and writing begging letters for government gibs
what did he mean by this?

>>10895673
this, science is only good when it's done by aristocrats in their free time as a prestige seeking activity, not when it's done by poors for scraps

>>10895673
I think in the coming years we're going to have to introduce a category of academic papers which are actually useful and another for the academic cargo cult which is made up of upper class morons who desperately want to feel like they're superior to others

>>10895676
science is only good when the nation is Christian as this discourages sociopathic behaviour of publishing for the sake of publishing

>>10895673
...what field are you talking about? TCS, systems, and especially algorithms are all incredibly replicable. All you literally have to do with algorithms - systems is run benchmarks and prove your results

>>10895652
Scientist or software developer?

>>10895830
lol, and what % of papers provide actual code and datasets instead of shitty pseudocode which when replicated doesn't give any advantage over well tuned standard methods or has even worse performance? specially now with the chinese """dominating""" the publication rates in many areas

>>10893631
>>10894165
>>10894682
>>10894746
>>10895580
You know CS has a long standing mathematical tradition in academia right? Solving hard problems in software engineering (less frontend - Apache server bullshit and more actual cryptosystem implementation of OS backend) is great, but there is in fact a large CS community that does all the shit you’re shitposting about (focusing on math, writing papers, doing academia, initial low pay). All this shitposting just furthers the divide between the rest of /sci/ (either clueless engineering students obsessed with their curricula rather than a tangible skillset and uptight math students who can’t fathom the idea that people can acquire intuition in different ways) and CS.
t. former math - CS double major, current math grad

>>10895889
>actual code
The proofs are constructive. The code follows easily, or is the job of a codemonkey to transcribe
>doesn’t give an advantage
Actually in my experience, it’s been that most software devs are script kiddies. I gave a combinatorial optimization algo to one once and he botched it 5 times (kept doing a brute force rather than doing the actual algorithm, progressively shaving off only constant time considerations and not actually solving the problem), then wrote it my damn self, and it worked as intended. Algorithms is by far the most practical field of TCS, and I’ve yet to see a researcher fail to find a faster method
>Chinese
Chinese American researchers and Chinese researchers are two different types of people.

Even the most esoteric complexity research has given back lol. If you seriously think “lol academics can’t code,” and spouting out your starting salaries, you’re actually self rationalizing here.

What if there is a GPA minimum requirement for CS? Is it still stupid?

>>10895926
The undergrad degree and the actual field are two different things. CS is a field where it’s wide enough that it accepts the lower tier people (think basic software devs, /g/ tier techbros) as well as incredibly intelligent people (both in industry and academia)

>>10895900
So what is your point? What you say is correct. But that has nothing to do with the fact that the average CS graduate doesn't need any math background to have a successful career as a software engineer. So many of them can be considered "stupid" compared to the average math graduate. So what? We are just enumerating completely orthogonal facts looking at math vs CS from different angles. And everyone is arguing their own point.

>>10895926
For starters GPA is meaningless without specifying your school you graduated from. Community college or Ivy league?

>>10895989
State university

>>10895985
My point is
1) the average CS major doesn’t need a math background to be a basic software engineer, but does need one for intense applications and the hottest fields like cryptosystem design. The problem is that you guys mock math in a way that plays down how useful all that “useless number theory” actually is.
2) the stupid aren’t usually annoying, but when they constantly vie for attention and equal consideration on the math and science board. Yes, your job may be high paying for you to push and pull code, add in like a couple hundred lines to fulfill a customer request, and then be done, but not all jobs are like this, nor even in CS. When you do basic work but want to be as respected in the same breath as actual intelligent CS grads and people from other fields, it’s not “triggering;” it’s just annoying.
Not only are jobs not reducible to salary, most people you mock end up making a good yield doing what they like anyway. All this shitposting does nothing but strokes your ego

>>10893539
>engineering
lmao

>>10896032
> When you do basic work but want to be as respected in the same breath as actual intelligent CS grads and people from other fields, it’s not “triggering;” it’s just annoying.
Ever hear the adage "work smart, not hard"?

>>10896045
To reduce your effort on menial work, sure. But this is irrelevant when your interests are doing novel research or interesting leaps of imagination in engineering that the best software devs have. At that point, it’s literally “you cannot reduce hard work to a smaller amounts of ‘smart’ work”
I don’t buy that basic software dev is working “smart.” I see it as a net that catches those want the stem money and the stem prestige without a more competitive career path. There are already smart software engineers out there who work smart and work hard. Advocating for the lowest common denominator under the pretense “oh they’re working smart” it self rationalization at best and unwarranted self importance at worst. Making fun of people for working hard in fields they like is not only mean spirited - it’s just in bad faith

>>10893539
improved

>>10893607
This one apparently

>>10896032
>to be a basic software engineer
which is like 99% of all soft eng jobs
>does need one for intense applications and the hottest fields like cryptosystem design
1% of jobs. but even then programmers do not design crypto algos. mathematicians design them and code monkeys code them.

>not all jobs are like this
we are not talking about "all jobs" are we

>nor even in CS
99% CS jobs are like this

>want to be as respected
where did you get that from? respected by who? who are you even arguing with? my point is 99% of CS grads do not need any math background to have a successful career in soft eng. but if someone states that math grads are 'smarter' i am not even arguing with that. i am just saying it is irrelevant i still don't know what the hell you are talking about. you might be replying to a bunch of people at the same time who made totally different points.

>>10893607
this discipline is called NEETdom and shitposting

>tfw got into computer science for the math at high (graduate) levels
Well /sci/, am I fucked? Must I live my life as a codemonkey with no hope for acqdemic development?

>>10896170
LOL it’s the market for entry level software eng and working for companies who want nothing from you but to make their digital services more efficient. There are a myriad of CS jobs - “actual” CS jobs - which aren’t part of the software engineering route. The divide is more on qualification, not percent of jobs overall. We’re talking about CS as a field. The point is that a CS grad doesn’t need a math background to do the lowest common denominator jobs, but everything interesting is gated behind mathematical maturity
>>10896175
Just double major lol

>>10893539
>salty turbonerd mad because brogrammer chads get to chase pussy after getting their BA than needing further education and rigorous study

Get rekt, Mohinder.

>>10896217
>myriad of CS jobs - “actual” CS jobs
>myriad
>0.01%

>>10896175
Depends, if your school offers non-trivial electives like crypto, complexity theory, graphics, parallel computing etc you'll be fine, just take these and ignore the retards who enter the program to be code monkeys, the thing with CS degrees is you can make them as trivial or as hard as you want depending where you study, every ABET accredited school I've seen offers these electives tho.

>>10896268
I’m gonna need some numbers on that chief. In my experience, again, it’s qualification and not number of jobs that are the actual reason why fewer people do those jobs - and again, it’s not nearly as clearly divided as 0.0000001% or whatever

>>10893539

I have a CS degree and I'm retarded. I honestly dont know how I got one.

>>10896335
what numbers? open any job search website and you will see. or prove me wrong and post a link to a "myriad of cs jobs" that are NOT C#/java/web dev.
>qualification and not number of jobs that are the actual reason why fewer people do those jobs
this statement makes no sense at all. fewer people have jobs like that because the demand is much lower. there cannot be a 'myriad' of them by definition. hence
> 0.0000001%
not far from truth. because 99.999998% of cs graduates end up coders or testers not csientists.
that's just common sense. those jobs are hard to find and if you land one you might get paid a lot of money but if you lose it you'd most likely have to relocate.

>>10896316
Thank for the advice anon-senpai

>>10893539
why is CS a thing anyways? Shouldn't it just be all Software Engineers? What exactly does a CS degree permit that you don't get in SE?

>>10893539
ITT: people who wasted their college education on fields that have very little demand in the actual workforce bitch about it

>>10893546
CS = job
Science =/= job

>>10894682
inferior crocodile alligator

>>10896443
100% agree.
>permit
Not just that. Market needs software engineers not computer 'scientists' my ass. You graduate with a CS degree you work as a SE. Almost zero exceptions. It is a scam to force people to take more classes and pay more $$$.

>>10896915
don't CS students have less classes than engineers? Wouldn't it be more like software engineering for people who don't want to put in the effort an engineering degree takes?

>>10896443
In software engineering degrees you don't take any real computer science classes, you go up to like Calc II and you learn about industry standards for programming and such. You take things like fundamentals of hardware and stuff.
CS on the other hand is basically a degree in mathematics, but with a lot of classes that focus on Turing machines. So you take things like Calc! up to PDE's, abstract algebra, algebraic combinatorics, discrete structures, topology, and all of it is proof-heavy as opposed to software engineering where you're building software rather than writing papers showing graph isomorphisms.

CS is for people who know they need to work(get actual shit done) to eat. Theoretical crap and solving problems in your head doesn't matter unless your the best(get PhD) and manage to solve problems for other people. If your not the best at solving problems your in with the rest of the population.

The 'math is hard' cope is just your rational for making life harder on yourself than it should be. There is a reason so many smart people are cucks and masochists.

Also try coding a real time physics engine if you think CS is so easy.

>>10896938
CS is theoretical though

>>10896948
CS may be theoretical, but most of the retards who go into it spend all their electives on practical application courses so that they can get a job for the big 5 working with databases, web dev, or mobile dev

>>10896935
they can't possibly have less total classes. i believe it should be around 60 credits for either, which is half of your total credits. the rest are electives/general ed. but they do take different classes and i can tell you that EE majors take much harder classes. more math, for one. they do shit like signals and systems, etc. it is not (((real))) math of course, but still CS majors only take calc-1-2-3, discrete math and linear algebra. not even DE in some programs.

>>10893595
Just programming is not computer science.

>>10896960
forgot about probability and stats of course. but it is a really dumbed down basic stuff.

>>10893602
isnt it spelled "wiDgets"?

>>10896960
Don't CS students only take 5 a semester?

>>10897019
5 what? classes or credits? there are no exact numbers like that. a 4 year bachelor program is 120 credits. 30 per year, 15 per semester. you can take anything from 12 to 18 credits per semester depending on your abilities. a typical class is 3-4 credits. so yes you can take 4-5 classes. roughly half of the total credits count towards your major. CS or not doesnt matter.

>>10897045
at my school it was on average 5 classes for CS students and 6 for engineers per semester. Engineers needed something like 146 or so credits to graduate

>>10895926
Major requirements are a function of capacity, not rigor. If 1000 people want to get into a department that can only take 100 students, the top ~10%, plus people who tick diversity boxes etc, will be admitted. No where is being in the top 10% functionally required.

>>10897055
I would rather kms than tick a diversity box

>>10897070
Take yourself out of the genepool faget. I check EVERY race box and NOBODY can stop me if they even say a a single word about it lawsuits will be shit into their mouths with the fury of ten thousand suns.