/sci/ - Science & Math

>>11930083
mirrors are hard work bro...

>>11930083
This is a very perplexing problem I have no idea what the reason could be

It was never going to launch in 2007. That was just a notional study and the telescope was very differently designed back then. By the time it passed CDR it was 2015.

>>11930102
>Hurr dur, JPL is the reason a Goddard mission is behind.
Fuck off back to /pol/

meanwhile in 2170

>>11930102
>if only you know how bad things really arr
holy shit no wonder it's going to take fucking decades, only ONE person is working on the project.

>>11930128
>defening wh*te w*men
racist scum

>>11930128
fuck off cr*cker notice the black man is the only one working in that picture?
Thats the story of civilization isnt it

>>11930131
LUVOIR is never going to be selected because it's too expensive. There is room in the budget for about 5 billion worth of telescope, LUVOIR-A is something like 12-20 billion.

>>11930083
Were not space stations meant for such missions? To ensemble shit on orbit and launch that from it?

>>11930169
Sorry for my ignorant cousin, he descends from a non-Scythian race of troglodytes.
It was us that declared man equal and our vengeful jealous brothers, lesser sons of Noah, that desire evil.
They use white women as their tools to oppress modern men.

>>11930251
No. The telescope has nowhere enough delta v to make it to L2 from the ISS, it needs to be sent their by the launch vehicle directly. The ISS is also a very dirty environment for clean optics. The space station was built to give astronauts something to do.

>>11930237
JWST was $10B over 14 years. If LUVOIR-A is $20B over 20 years, that's doable for a 2040 launch. We just need the public to be more interested in space exploration again.

JWT secret program.
F-35 other secret program causing delays.

>>11930083
What happens if this thing explodes on the pad or if it fails to properly deploy?

How many people would sudoku themselves?

>>11930083
The main problem is that no work can be done on it once it's launched. We simply have no method for getting to a far lunar orbit at L2 to fix a telescope. So everything has to be perfect before it's launched and we keep finding flaws.

>>11930452
Would starship give us that capability?

>>11930419
But it can't start until WFIRST is ramping down in cost. So then it's 2045+, assuming that for once they haven't fucked up the costing. Astronomers don't want another JWST fiasco, missions should not have development cycles that are that long. The science planning cycle is 10 years.

>>11930083
They're waiting for the Lagrange point to rematerialize

>>11930451
>What happens if this thing explodes on the pad
Ariane gets footed the insurance bill, another JWST would be built.

>or if it fails to properly deploy?
Another one would be built, but more testing studies would be done to make sure it works the next time. That is, if it doesn't get cancelled sometime in the future.

>How many people would sudoku themselves?
Are you kidding? They would be happy, because they would get paid more to make another telescope that they can delay as much as possible to milk it of money.

>>11930473
Government payloads are not insured, and ArianeSpace would not be footing the bill.

There's no way it would be rebuilt. It was so close to cancellation last time.

>>11930488
>There's no way it would be rebuilt
But surely we can do it cheaper and faster this time, we just give them another cost plus contract....

>>11930083
>>11930128
>NASA
>Goddard

Northrop Grumman is the prime contractor and they're a pack of fuckups

>>11930139
>categorises by color and sex
You're literally a racist and a sexist.

>>11930102
I bet half of them are secretarys or similar shit

>>11930102
Why do women existing make incels seethe so much?

>>11930451
>What happens if this thing explodes on the pad?
I would legit laugh, out of all the autistic level safety checks and research around this thing a launch failure would be comedic.
>or if it fails to properly deploy?
Again, way too much effort put in to let that competently happen. So laughs. If it did fail I can see a rescue mission be planned and the vessel put into a coma. A deploy or technical fail would also mean a total disintegration of trust between these counties and a joint project like this never happening again for decades.
>How many people would sudoku themselves?
a few for sure. Though really it would cause now liquidity scrapped countries to never open their check books for idiot-tier projects like this again. In the future if a project run out of cash and miss their window they will be told to go fuck themselves. The successes of SpaceX will push space out of the hands of pleb brained politics and back into the private sector.

I do want this fucker to make it. It is a good idea and I personally thing the jwst is capable of picking up techno or bio signatures on alien worlds.

>>11930128
>>Hurr dur, JPL is the reason a Goddard mission is behind.
>Fuck off back to /pol/

>>11930746
I doubt anyone is seething over a bunch of narcissistic women who can't do their job.

>>11930419
>If LUVOIR-A is $20B over 20 years, that's doable for a 2040 launch.
I am not sure the government has any appetite for yet another monster overrun the next 100 years.

>>11931621
Proof they can't do their work? You don't know a single woman in the pic

>>11930251
>ensemble
assemble

>>11930083
because wypipo cant into math and dey dont spice dey food

>>11933378
Where is this bullshit from?

>>11930083

Why not do this instead: https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/spacetech/niac/2020_Phase_I_Phase_II/Direct_Multipixel_Imaging_and_Spectroscopy_of_an_Exoplanet/

>>11933409
Because it would take decades, cost billions and only be useful for one target. JWST is a general purpose observatory, with a huge range of science.

>>11933446

>take decades
>cost billions

What is the JWST?

>One target
The Gravitational Lens Telescope would have 360 degree view of the universe as it orbits the Sun.

>>11933457
And how long would an orbit take at 550 AU? That would be 13,000 years.

Also note that it wouldn't be able to circularise, there's no way a mission would carry enough propellant to enter a circular orbit.

>What is the JWST?

More than a single target mission.

>>11933510
JWST is a single target mission. Its single target is to farm as much grant money as possible.

>>11930251
Oui oui!

>>11930102
So what is the real story behind that picture? All I get are nonsense results on Google.

>>11930102
>tfw tolerance is the Great Filter

Have fun advancing as a civilization when your future engineers are going to be 90 iq niggers, bunch of women and mentally ill trannies

>>11934418

Dw, Israel and Switzerland will keep on innovating

Why does it need the bigass sunshield when it's going to orbit in the Earth's L2 Lagrange point?

Does the Earth not cast a big enough shadow?

>>11933336
>*delayed by more than 13 years*
Didn't you read the first post?

>>11933336
When did NASA last do anything noteworthy? Or than do photo ops for diversity? The NASA press office recently went into overdrive to make sure the world knew that their latest astronaut class was 100% female. Care to explain that?

>>11933404
A movie called 'Hidden Figures' that engaged in absurd amounts of historical revisionism to make the Moon landing possible only because of three black women.

>>11934819
They do a shitload of noteworthy science. The Mars 2020 rover is launching in a few days.

>>11934728
Yo do know James Webb is being built by Northrop right?

>>11935670
What do you think?

>>11935670
I wonder what could be cause of these darn delays I have no idea

>>11930083
Diversity

>>11934418
This is true. I hate you if you refuse to acknowledge this you disgusting coward.

>>11935658
Until it actually goes to Mars and completes its mission, it's no different than the JWT.

>>11935729
>>11935736
Nothing wrong with that, you're just assuming that because they're gay or female they're bad at their job. Its not like there were no delayed projects or accidents in the 60's right?

>>11935769
Curiosity has been in Mars for years producing lots of data

>>11934364
It was made as recruiting material to show to university students. They want to make sure women know that NASA is a place that caters to women.

>>11935775
The Mars Science Laboratory was developed in the mid 2000s, long before diversity became NASA's number one mission. Got anything successful that has been developed since being a minority became the most important qualification for science at NASA?

>>11935729
It is a little ironic that a military contractor has become friendly to leftist causes.

>>11935789
You're going to be so pissed when the Artemis mission live streams 2 gay dudes fucking their brains out on the moon as a lesbian films and commentates on their passionate manlove.

>>11935789
>diversity became NASA's number one mission
Why do you fags keep repeating this bullshit?
>was developed in the mid 2000s
JWST has been in development since the 90's so what's your point?
There have been a lot of successful missions from NASA recently. Osiris Rex, Dawn, LRO, Parker just off the top of my head plus planetary science actively being performed by NASA in collaboration with Universities.

>>11935796
That's because morality cannot exist outside of some kind of external religious construct.
If the source of your morality is internal then it just changes based on whatever you feel like doing at the time or whatever justification you can come up with for doing it like the greater good etc.

>>11935798
Sounds like a Nickelodeon exclusive.
>>11935821
>Why do you fags keep repeating this bullshit?
Because it's true. When NASA shuts down its diversity office and goes a decade without ever mentioning diversity, everyone will stop mentioned NASA's diversity obsession.
>>11935796
They'd become friendly to MLP causes if that was who signed their checks.

JWST is already outdated af, some clever fucker will throw a better telescope together and chuck it up with starship.

>>11937465
>If the source of your morality is internal then it just changes based on whatever you feel like doing at the time or whatever justification you can come up with for doing it like the greater good etc.
Which is exactly what happens in religion. Christians went from slaughtering the heathens to being all about peace and love in a few hundreds years. It's the same religion, just the interpretation changed to suit the progress of European societal norms.

>>11937487
And how exactly is it outdated?

>>11937562
The sensors are now 10 - 15 years old. After 10 years sensors would be faster, more sensitive, have higher resolution and use less power.
https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/products/sensors-products/teledynes-ccd-image-sensors-capture-images-andromeda-galaxy-2020-07/

>>11937832
Those are optical CCDs retard. JWST is infrared.

>>11930083
NASA gets paid every year regardless of results. Would you deliver your best results if you knew that you'd get paid regardless? Maybe yes. But what if you had other interests. Say, for example, diversity? If you worked at NASA but were more interested in hiring black women, would you still deliver the best results or would you divert your own time and resources into accomplishing your personal goals?

>>11937885
>Thinks infrared is not optics
Uh-huh.

>>11937982
Not optics, optical. As in the astronomical band. It means visible plus a tiny bit of the near infrared. Those CCDs are only sensitive to around 1 micron. JWST's main wavelengths are 1 to 5 microns, with some sensitivity from 0.7 to 30 microns.

>>11937524
That's not true you just don't have a very good understanding of Christian philosophy. If you read the church fathers like Saint Aquinas he lists when it is acceptable to wage war as a Christian in the Summa Theologica.

>>11933378
>africa on the BIG map
pottery

>>11930083
>>11930102
I suppose the same problem as with the Duke Nukem Forever game. They keep reworking the design instead of freezing it, finishing and launching it, then working on the next installment.

>>11930083
NASA's goal is not to achieve things in space. What are you, 12?

>>11938062
ok mr. big brain what is their goal

>>11937524
>>11938054
Most of the "peace and love" Christians are Christian in name only and don't really follow the moral doctrines of the Bible.
These people don't go to church and will quote these "inspirational" feel google type bible verses out of context and misinterpreted as if that sums up the entire religion.

>>11938065
Primarily to redistribute federal tax dollars into each congressional district, weighted by the relative political power of the district's representative and senator.

>>11937524
>Which is exactly what happens in religion.
In religion morality is decided by an external source(the church usually by committee) which is very different from everyone following their own personal moral principles.

A good portion of the population is not smart/benevolent enough to make the correct moral decisions without the fear of God. It doesn't really matter if its true or not its still in the best interest for all of society for these people to believe it.

>>11937487
>>11937832
But you need to stop making changes and fucking launch it, or you will keep updating it forever, because a new tech will come by the time you finish the upgrade, meanwhile you could have several satellites in orbit, if perhaps somewhat imperfect. Imperfect is better than none.

>>11938081
they don't get enough money for that

>>11938069
>No_true_scotsman.jpg

>>11938086
They're not the only mechanism by which that scheme is run. Social security, medicare, and the various defense budgets are a much larger share of total federal outlays.

As for why NASA in particular doesn't get more, there are practical limits to government revenue and deficits that we don't have to get into.

>>11938088
You are using that fallacy incorrectly. I am not changing the definition of Christianity to exclude these individuals.

>>11938082
>In religion morality is decided by an external source(the church usually by committee) which is very different from everyone following their own personal moral principles.
No it's not. Those people are influenced by current social norms. Just like a random atheist will consider what society thinks.

>It doesn't really matter if its true or not its still in the best interest for all of society for these people to believe it.
And yet you fail to consider the negative impacts, like religious extremists. Jihadists get their morality from religion and it's certainly not good for society. religions are also conservative by their very nature, so they hold back progress in society.

>>11938069
When was the last time the pope signed off on a crusade? Compared to 500 years ago the whole religion is "peace and love".

>>11938054
So explain why there are no more crusades then. "No" doesn't explain anything.

>>11938120
the pope is pozzed

>>11938105
How is that relevant? Just because the Vatican isn't out waging war doesn't mean there isn't a moral framework for fighting just wars in Christian doctrine. Have you even read any of the philosophy of religion?

>>11938133
>How is that relevant?
Because that was the point I originally made.

>doesn't mean there isn't a moral framework for fighting just wars in Christian doctrine.
When exactly did I claim there wasn't? You're arguing with something I never said.

>>11938138
You are conflating two unrelated things.
The fact that the Catholic Church hasn't found it necessary to wage any wars recently doesn't mean that the Church has changed it moral doctrines on war.

>>11938164
So do you think that Christians now have the same opinion on burning heretics as they did 400 years ago?

>>11938181
The papal authorities within the Catholic church still follow the just war doctrine.

It's pretty clear that you have like a meme tier education because of all of the mischaracterizations you have made and the fact that you are using imprecise language means you are probably retarded.

>>11938288
You said that already, this is a different question. Yes or no?

>>11938295
There are 2.3 billion Christians in the world right now and none of them were alive 400 years ago so I don't know what you mean by having the same opinion as they did 400 years ago.

Maybe you should try rewording your question using precise language in a way that doesn't make you look like a retard.

>>11938335
You know exactly what I mean, you're just deflecting.

>>11937524
One person making up their own personal morality is not the same thing as having a religious institution deciding the morality for an entire society.
Most people are not capable of creating their own set of personal morals without causing harm to society and themselves because of unforeseen consequences.

A healthy religious institution needs to be able to make vast reinterpretations to suit the changing the world to ensure its survival and the survival of its followers.
The Christian world was able to excel in ways that the Muslim world couldn't because of their ability to make vast reinterpretations and even changes/omissions to the bible.

Without an external religious source of morality it becomes pretty easy for people to come up with justifications for doing heinous crimes like robbery or murder or fraud if the reward is high enough. Our society would be a lot better off if the low IQ people who are prone to crime had the fear of God to make them think about their actions.

>>11937524

>Christians went from slaughtering the heathens to being all about peace and love in a few hundreds years

Extra emphasis should be placed on "love" since that included """compelling""" non-believers into becoming Christians and fucking other populations women to induce Christianity on that offspring.

Which is the same shit other religions did once they realize there were more effective ways than simply killing.

>>11930335
>The space station was built to give astronauts something to do.
And for eopolitical reasons -- keep We USed to Be Soviets rocket engineers employed on space projects instead of hiring themselves out to Kim Jung Whoever and the like, and to support the post-Soviet government in Russia by funneling money and space-prestige to them. That was the underlying political thought behind merging Space Station Freedom with some possible Mir 2.0

>>11930458
If it existed, yes.

Until/unless it exists, no.

Somebody correct me if this is wrong, but I recall reading that there would be big problems with thruster fuel residue and the like if anything ever had to fly up to it to make repairs, but that may be a faulty memory, or I am in the wrong timeline, or something.

>>11934822
To be fair, the book was much better, and recovered an interesting side-story in the history of space flight that had previously been largely overlooked.

But yeah, the movie was dreck.

>>11937481
>Because it's true. When NASA shuts down its diversity office and goes a decade without ever mentioning diversity, everyone will stop mentioned NASA's diversity obsession.

NASA is a part of the government. The government is pro-diversity. If you need to seethe about that, go to /pol/.

>>11938369
You don't even know exactly what you mean. As evidenced by your inability to express it clearly.

>>11938596
>eopolitical reasons

Geopolitical, sorry, typed faster than my fingers can move.

Nice a jannie cleared half the messages in this thread this website is a joke

>>11934682
It cannot be *in* L2, instead it is in an halo orbit. that makes sure the solar panels are illuminated. And that also means it needs this troglodytic sunshield which is so complicated it will be a miracle if it works.

>>11940220
The conversation got rather hard to follow in places.

>>11930736
Progressives challenge categorizations of humans, then offer their own categorical prescription in return, that essentially is "race exists when I need it to, and doesn't exist when I need it to so that my moral doctrine always gives the desired result."

>>11938619
The question was why NASA sucks. That it is subject to the government's diversity fetish is a reasonable answer even if it isn't the entire answer.

>>11940499
The fall came about when NASA became a career rather than a mission to win the space race and to explore. And that was before diversity became an issue.
Textbooks on dysfunctional organisation often refer to NASA, especially the Challenger launch. The engineers advised against it, the management demanded a launch. Seven astronauts dead, space shuttle totalled, the entire US space project belly up, and NONE from management ever had to stand trial. And you know none will ever be jailed for killing and destruction of government property.

And that is how damaged NASA is.

>>11940220
I wonder why.

>>11933378
>>11934822
>>11938614

>>11942029
Should really use a younger image since people could argue she looks pale because elderly skin is thinner/paler in general.

>>11940499
The reason why most things begin to suck. It becomes cool and people start going there for the prestige, rather than the thing itself.

>>11940499
The reason why most things begin to suck. It becomes cool and people start doing it for the prestige, rather than the thing itself.

>>11942029
That page could say that you're alien from the planet Glaxinor VI if you wanted it to say what.
Let's put it this way, if Mrs. Johnson never lived, how would history of the Moon program be different?
A: It wouldn't, she wasn't in any way essential and her contributions are only note worthy because of her skin color.

>>11940858
The Columbia disaster was even worse. Linda Ham should have been hanged, drawn and quartered. Instead her beta orbiters in NASA closed ranks around her and she got promoted for killing seven astronauts.

>>11942213
Now that Trump has poured a lot of personal prestige into getting back to the moon,. any failure on NASA's part will be met with draconian measures. And they know it. And that is probably the reason they were not so keep on returning to the moon even though money was no objection.


It is impressive how the NASA culture has rotted.

Only Nazis could build decent rockets, and all the Nazis are gone

>>11942029
So basically these woman were used as human computers. They did calculations... that it is.
Do you ever say my calculator did "Fundamental contributions" to your work? No you do not. There is no job for human calculators anymore.

>>11942491
The article >>11942029 also mentions she coauthored scientific papers.

>>11943025
Pets have coauthored scientific papers. There have also been "scientific" papers on the movie Twilight. You're going to have to point to something specific she did that travel to the Moon would be impossible without if you want to stick to the narrative of the movie. Otherwise you're playing in the world of the social sciences and creative writing.

>>11937487
By the time JWST is sending photos, redditors will have superior photos from their back yards.

.

>>11942029
Michael Jackson confirmed white.

>>11944703
There are white Africans, too