/sci/ - Science & Math

Sorry, starting from the 20th century natural philosophy has become obsoleted by logical empiricist jewish intellectuals.
The best we can do for you is sterile instrumentalism.

>>15573600
>imagine getting filtered by the foreword of a freshman physics intro book
>imagine getting filtered by trivial words before reaching the first formula
LMAO, lowest IQ on /sci/ right now

>>15573623
>imagine getting filtered
Yes, this shitty NPC-tier book got filtered hard by me.

>>15573611
>oh no, how dare they use facts and logic
Sucks to be you, shill.

>>15573629
>claiming undefined terms like mass and force to be central in science you write your book about
>basically pretend you know what you're writing about while in reality both you and your readers have to fucking idea and just memorize meaningless equations and math bullshit
>logic
Kek.

>>15573629
It looks much more like the twisting and raping of facts and logic under the catholic church during the middle ages than what the natural philosophers were doing before.

>>15573634
>>15573626
>I am ignorant and I'm proud of my ignorance
Which environmental factors have you zoomer been exposed to?

>>15573642
Why writers on classical mechanics admit they are ignorant on what mass and force is and then proceed to write books about topics they know absolutely nothing about? What kind of retardation is this?

>>15573638
How would you be able to tell? You didn't even understand mass and force, dummy.

>>15573650
>reading comprehension: F-
Go sit in the corner, dumbass.

>>15573651
And you can't distinguish OP from a poster in the thread. Embarassing.

>>15573642
might have lost some IQ points because of leaded fuel.

>>15573654
>i know what mass and force is but i won't tell you because you already should know it ok haha?

>>15573600
>I want a book that solves physics
nice one OP, you proved in your own post why faggots should start with the fucking basics instead of being entitled little LARPers

>>15573600
no one's figured it out yet. but the path to knowledge is called superdeterminism. that's what you should be looking into.

>>15573660
Retards are indistinguishable to me and don't deserve individual treatment.

>>15573667
Perhaps try reading an introductory physics book? It's all explained there, stupid.

>>15573672
>no one's figured it out yet.
Then why tf are they writing books on sujbect of which they know nothing about? It's meaningless and transmits no real knowledge.

>>15573676
No such thing as "introductory physics book".

>>15573600
>how NATURE ITSELF OPERATES and how and why physical phenomenons occur
HAHAHHAHAAH
That's beyond science.
Science is bunch of monkies tinkering with a vending machine testing theories on which button to press to get their favorite snacks.
You want to know how the electronics work or why is there a vending machine at all? Good luck with that.

>>15573704
>>15573695
pathetic troll

>>15573704
>You want to know how the electronics work
Put plug into socket. Machine starts working.
>or why is there a vending machine at all?
To provide food for money.

Got any more questions?

>>15573717
Got any more questions?
Yeah sure, what's a "field"?

>>15573728
A field is where a farmer grows plants. The term should be avoided due to its historical connotations of racism.

>>15573704
>u cannot know nuffin
Postmodernist rabulism is anti-intellectual cancer. You're not funny, you're a perpetrator of cultural genocide.

>>15573739
QUANTUM RACISM THEORY

>>15573739
Haha good one.
>>15573745
Just putting you autistic nerds in your place.
Shut up and calculate. You are good for the next iphone. Anything more and you are making shit up just like the christcucks.

>>15573760
>Shut up and calculate.
For you this would just be "shut up". Because your intelligence is insufficient for the "calculate" part.

>>15573777
It's plenty sufficient to know your story about invisible monkey spirits dropping snacks is bs no matter how accurate your button meshing skill is.
Now get back to it.

>>15573789
Are these invisible monkeys in the room with you right now?

>>15573798
I don't know, is there a "field" permeating my room right now?

>>15573805
>if space is real...
>how come I can't see it?

>>15573805
>5G mind control totally isn't real, trust me my fellow non-glowing non-agents

>>15573813
>>15573814
Heh, alright I'll let you nerds off for today.
Now go build a warp engine or something and stop wasting your time trying to answer metaphysical questions with physics.
Later bots.

>>15573805
They make us infertile. They cause cancer. They cause neurodegeneration. And then they send their shills to /sci/ to tell us their fields aren't real.

>WiFi Related Radiofrequency Electromagnetic Fields Promote Transposable Element Dysregulation and Genomic Instability
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9776602/

>Exposure to 900MHz electromagnetic fields activates the mkp-1/ERK pathway and causes blood-brain barrier damage and cognitive impairment
>https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S000689931500030X

>Increased blood-brain barrier permeability in mammalian brain 7 days after exposure to the radiation from a GSM-900 mobile phone
>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19345073/

>Impacts of electromagnetic radiation from cellphones and Wi-Fi on spermatogenesis
>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32216233/

>Wi-Fi is an important threat to human health
>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29573716/

>Mobile phone radiation causes brain tumors and should be classified as a probable human carcinogen
>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25738972/

>>15573600
If you're looking for the *why*, give up now and pick up a book on philosophy instead. Or "find Jesus" or whatever. Physics describes "how", and anyone who thinks they know "why" is deluding themselves.

The very next paragraph in the book goes on to give a reasonable explanation of mass that is perfectly adequate for classical mechanics:
>The mass of an object characterizes the object's inertia — its resistance to being accelerated: A big boulder is hard to accelerate, and its mass is large. A little stone is easy to accelerate, and its mass is small. To make these natural ideas quantitative we have to define a unit of mass and then give a prescription for measuring the mass of any object in terms of the chosen unit. The internationally agreed unit of mass is the kilogram and is defined arbitrarily to be the mass of a chunk of platinum-iridium stored at the International Bureau of Weights and Measures outside Paris.

>>15573877
>philosophy
Top lel, you fucking retard. Philosophy has never answered a "why" question.

>>15573877
I'm okay with this definition of mass. What about the force?

>>15573600
Start with Physics by Aristotle. You're welcome.

>>15573889
It goes on to informally describe force, then introduces F=ma, then F=dp/dt.

>>15573917
I'm not asking just about the book, like, what are the definition you're agree and ok with?

>>15573920
F=dp/dt is a general mathematical definition that I agree with. But if you try to come up with axiomatic definitions that avoid any kind of circular reasoning you run into issues.

>>15573930
>But if you try to come up with axiomatic definitions that avoid any kind of circular reasoning you run into issues.
Let's try it out. Force is a measure of how much one object accelerates another object upon colission.

>>15573936
>Let's try it out. Force is a measure of how much one object accelerates another object upon colission.
No good; objects will accelerate more or less depending on their mass.

>>15573944
Yes, mass plays a role, however, without force there will be no acceleration. How does it makes my definition invalid?

>>15573950
>How does it makes my definition invalid?
Can you use your definition to calculate anything useful? I could just as easily say that without mass, there's no acceleration either.

>>15573959
>Can you use your definition to calculate anything useful?
I think it perfectly fits current calculations.
>I could just as easily say that without mass, there's no acceleration either.
Yes, it's true. So we can clarify: Force is a measure of how much one object accelerates another object upon colission depending on mass of second object. It's like attack strength (force) and armor (mass), with the result that depends on both this things (damage) being acceleration.

>>15573972
I'm going to ignore your gamer-brained definition here
>It's like attack strength (force) and armor (mass), with the result that depends on both this things (damage) being acceleration.
and focus on this one:
>Force is a measure of how much one object accelerates another object upon colission depending on mass of second object.

Ok, consider an example: I toss a ball up in the air. From the moment it leaves my hand, it accelerates downward until it hits the ground, yet during this time (while it accelerates downward) there are no apparent collisions causing the ball to accelerate downward. So here we have a force without any apparent collision.

>>15573989
Ok, let's change the definition a little and remove the colission part: Force is a measure of how much one object accelerates another object by any means necessary, depending on mass of second object. Now it fits both kinetical (colissional) and gravitational forces under one phenomenon. All other is nuances.

>>15574008
Ok. Now you just need to define mass, momentum, and energy without relying on any circular definitions.

>>15574008
>by any means necessary
This part also presents a problem. What means, specifically? Action at a distance? Fields? Collisions? Now you need a theory to specify how objects fundamentally interact to alter each other's movements.

>>15574290
>Action at a distance? Fields? Collisions?
Doesen't matter, what matters is that one object affects another resulting in change of speed. By specifiyng how he does it case-by-case you just understand that there are different types of forces under one umbrella term.

>>15574301
Are forces required to be collinear? E.g., F_ab = -F_ba?

Defining force in terms of work is more effective desu, force is the condition for work to be done.

>>15573600
glad i'm not the only person who almost sees red from how much this pisses me off

but i've learnt that "physics" these days is just
engineering-lite with algebra and algebra disguised as calculus (when its not really calculus)

as others stated here
for discussions on the HOW and WHY which is what was reasonably expected from a fundamental introductory book/course on PHYSICS (but is unfortunately not done so anymore because these people are academic brainlets) check out philosophy/metaphysics books of plato, kant, etcetera

physics these days mostly only focused on the WHAT and a little on the WHERE
which is not bad just really a misnomer

>>15574412
you mean work as integrand to get force?

>>15574979
Show me a "why" question answered by philosophy. You can't. You are talking out of your uneducated ass and you've neither read a physics book nor a philosophy book.

>knowledge is le bad
>logic is le bad
>math is le bad
>rigorous methodology is le bad
>turn to mysticism instead of science
>u cannot know nuthin
Gee, I wonder who might be behind this gross anti-intellectual scam. I wonder who might be profiting from destroying critical thinking and turning people into drooling retards. The deconstruction of the educational system in the western world has been an ongoing attack over that last decades. Who is behind this and what is their plan?

>>15575033
cunt from metaphysics alpha 2
1. wisdom is a science of causes and principles
and is the object of philosophy (paraphrased)
2. "the CAUSES AND PRINCIPLES studied by philosophy are the most fundamental and valuable"

would not a WHY question in physics be answered by knowing the causes and principles of the phenomenon under observation?

>>15575132
>would not a WHY question in physics be answered by knowing the causes and principles of the phenomenon under observation
So no metaphysics needed then. The cause of acceleration is a force. Pure physics fully answers the question.

>>15573638
This is the dumbest thing anyone has ever said.

>>15575137
and where might i ask did the principles of actions, and reactions come from?
"pure physics" whatever that means
or logical methods of philosophy?

WHY questions should give an explanation as an answer

asking
"why is there an acceleration?"
and
"what has caused the acceleration?"
are in fact NOT the same questions, but i wouldnt expect a brainlet like you to see any difference

>>15575168
It looks a bit absurd if you put natural philosophers like Newton, Galileo, Leibniz, Laplace, Gauss, Euler, Lagrange, Maxwell, Faraday, etc., in the same bin as Albert "le space... le curves" Einstein, Richard "le nature is... le absurd" Feynman, and John "le math... is le unintuitive" von Neumann. But once you make the distinction, it's as clear as day that the latter group is as obscurantist and anti-intellectual as the catholic church was.

>>15575049
>muh design is perfect
>something is wrong
If your shit system is actually good you wouldn't be having this problem now would you.

>>15575137
>The cause of acceleration is a force
What is a force?
What is acceleration?
Why do you assume the former causes the later instead of both been caused by something else?

>>15575379
>What is a force?
mass multiplied with acceleration
>What is acceleration?
the derivative of velocity
>Why do you assume the former causes the later instead of both been caused by something else?
by definition

>>15573600
Sorry, only the real philosophers and physicists get to debate the meaning of mass. We cant have reatards like you in academia who debate mass when they dont even know the formula for force, work, gravitation, etc. Simply put you must walk before you can run, and run before you can drive a car. If you cant handle that, then dont go to college.

>>15575379
Le shut up and calculerino.

>>15575794
Cope.

>>15575799
Kek, it's hilarious how OP says "nobody asks the delicate questions" as if they're some special snowflake. No, people ask the "delicate questions" all the time, it's just that you as retard undergrad dont have the right to ask them.

>>15575758
>by definition
So it's made up.

>>15575803
Projection.

>>15573600
Explaining nature as accurate as possible requires math. External words are only proximal in that they are representation of the mathematical calculations. When you skip out the math, you skip out the details, hence you're left with rough summary.

>>15575806
It's the only truth. Keep coping.

>>15575803
>it's just that you as retard undergrad dont have the right to ask them
Full fledged phystards don't have the right to ask them either. Your field is simply incapable of answering them.
Now sHuT uP aNd cAlCuLaTe, nerd.

>>15575806
>It's the only truth. Keep coping.
Whatever you say Pastor Jones.

>>15575811
>It's the only truth. Keep coping.
Now where have I heard that before.

>>15575813
>buck broken nerd comes to 4chan to bully other nerds by calling them nerds
Many such cases. Sad.

>>15575818
Probably from your retarded philosophers.

>>15575818
Wtf? Mod?

>>15575758
>>15575806
No. Force is a consequence of QED and electromagnetism, specifically the repulsive force between particles. Which, assuming some things about the universe, so that the laws of physics dont somehow change over distance, there is no instance when it wont apply.

>>15573600
I actually wonder why this post triggered so many NPCs. Same kind of energy when you tell porn addict about nofap.

>>15575828
>yдaлён
The ruzzian spam bot accidentally reveals his identity. It's only a matter of time until you get drafted.

>>15575830
Is this a pre-chatgpt tier bot post? The sentences vaguely resemble some contribution to the discussion, but they're ultimately nonsensical and factually absolutely wrong.

>>15575830
So gravity is le electrical? Dark energy is le electrical?

>>15575833

>>15575839
What's your explanation then? The human soul moves the box? Or that your fingers hold consciousness and that's what presses down on the piano keys. Out with it.

>>15575825
I thought philosophers don't know nuffin?? Now you claim they know truths??
Get rekt. None coping physfags way smarter than you put down the SUAC commandment for a reason.
Physics definitions and concepts are an excerise in expediency, not some universal truth.
As for philosotards, they are just auditors. The fact you autists start clutch cheeks this tight means you been walking on thin ice.

>>15575843
But gravity isnt a force? Also obviously not every force is due to electromagnetism, the strong and weak forces also produce force, just that when anyone talks about F=ma the underlying assumption is that it's in classical dynamics and therefore is a consequence of electrodynamics.

>>15575847
Consciousness collapses the wave function.

>>15575853
King.

>>15575853
Big Black Man said we shouldn't explain something we don't understand with something else we don't understand.

>>15575848
Philosotards claim to know everything and to know nuffin at the same time. That's how inconsistent they are. Definitely low IQ.

>>15575853
Imagine wanting to have a debate when you only spout off the blandest, most overdone philosophical nothing arguments.

>>15575862
I stated a fact discovered by John von Neumann, the father of the mathematical formalism of quantum mechanics.

>>15575858
Black science man also said you can't kiss yourself in the mirror anywhere but on the lips.

>>15575859
Yes, if you can't substantiated your definitions and hypothesis, people know you know nuffin.
What a surprise.

>>15575858
>>15575869
The Gorilla deNigger Tyson?

>>15575872
>substantiate definitions
Lol

>>15575878
If you are going to claim your definition is "the only truth".
Then yes.

>>15575889
I would never claim such a nonsensical thing. Are you really that stupid?

>>15575895
Your fellow autist just did >>15575811
Are you really that naive?

>>15575900
That was my post. You must really suck at reading comprehension.

>>15575906
No, you are just apparently retarded.

>>15575913
You are illiterate. You cannot repeat my argument in your own words.

>>15575917
>Why do you assume A cause B
>Because I define them so
>Okay, you got anything to substantiate this definition? Or is it just made up.
>It's the only truth, Keep coping
>Errr wait I would never claim such a nonsensical thing as a definition been the only truth, YOU JUST SUCK AT READING
You are right, I really can't repeat your argument, because there is none and it's just retarded mumbling.

>>15574283
The definitions aren't circular, they are based on real world empirical experiments.

>>15575925
You seem to be struggling with basic English language and logic. Science proved that acceleration is caused by force. It's a fact all the experts agreed upon in countless experiments. Experts much smarter than you. Do you get it now, moron?

>>15575933
I don't give a flying fuck about your "experts" if they are all retarded like you.
You claim phenomena A causes phenomena B. Now I ask you again, what proof do you have there isn't a C causing both?
I'm not talking about considering a C in some model you need to build a fucking rocket. You want talk metaphysics, this is metaphysics.
Don't play ball if you can't handle the game.
Moron.

>>15575951
>this is metaphysics
No, it's physics. Did you fail highschool?

>>15575956
>how and why physical phenomenons occur
>it's muh physics
>muh physics can explain why there is something instead of nothing
You are hopeless.
Go back to calculating and earn your next paycheck.

>>15575975
>how and why PHYSICAL phenomena occur
>somehow not physics
Your IQ must be negative.

>>15575975
>muh physics can explain why there is something instead of nothing
It literally does explain this. Black science man made a few good videos about the big bang.

>>15575995
What else black science man have done to you?

>>15576000
He educated me and made me interested in science.

>>15575980
Your discipline calculates the mathematical relationship between various physical phenomena.
You know jack shit about their possible origins and never will.

>>15576014
It's all explained. Try to open a physics book. The math of physics isn't arbitrary, buddy. It all makes sense if you have the IQ to understand it.

>>15576019
>See I mapped out all the math in Minecraft, gameplay checks out too so it's not arbitrary!
>You'll believe me when I tell you I can explain later where the blocks come from now won't you?
Yeah sure whatever you say buddy. If you believe this obviously IQ doesn't mean a lot in the grand scheme of things.

>>15576047
The blocks in Minecraft are easily explained by the laws behind how they are generated. The exact same principle applies to matter being explained by quantum field theory. You almost got it. Just sit down and think about it for a while, kid.

>>15576052
>The exact same principle applies to matter being explained by quantum field theory
Where does this "field" come from?
Is there actually a "field" or is it just something you autists made up to help with your models and calculations?
You obviously didn't understand the Minecraft allgeory or choose not to.
Physics, by it's nature, cannot explain the origin of the phenomena it studies; it can only explain one phenomena in relation to another.
Until you get in grips with this reality philosotards do and will eat you alive everytime.

>>15576241
If physics can't explain it then nobody can. You can cry on 4channel all day but mysticism will never be a serious competitor for physics.

>>15576310
The only body who's crying about "don't know nuffin" on this board is you phystards.
Maybe nobody can explain it.
But physics to an absolute certainty cannot.

>>15576399
>asks a meaningless nonsensical question
>keeps crying because physics can't answer it
You're a dimwit.

>>15576462
Hey, you are the one who claims physics can somehow explain how and why physical phenomenon occur.
I simply explained to you why physics can't.
You'll get over it kid.
Peace.

>>15576501
Physics fully explains physical phenomena. You are upset because you are unnecessarily obsessed with some utterly idiotic fantasy about there being some deeper metaphysical cause. Once you realize just how dumb and wrong this philosophical crap is you'll drop it and regret being such a fool.

>>15576241
>Physics, by it's nature, cannot explain the origin of the phenomena it studies; it can only explain one phenomena in relation to another
This is just word salad. Physics is by definition the explanation of physical phenomena. Fields are mediums in which quarks move. We can mathematically define them as fields of excitations because that is a way that we can understand them. If you don't like this definition and you want to argue against it, don't bother. I don't care enough to explain this to you given how much of a retard you are with words.

>little tard OP trips over his own legs with dimwitted wordcel confusion
>blames physics for his own failure
Oh no

>>15577331
Physics is failure.

It aren't OP styling on you phystards I'm pretty sure it's this guy >>15573704.
Also holy shit this thread HAHAHAHAHA

>OP: "Physics is stupid because poopoo peepee"
>Physicist: "What the fuck, retard, that doesn't make any sense."
>OP: "Hahaha I absolutely obliterated physics."
The absolute state of /sci/ in 2023

>>15577703
Physics doesen't make any sense because it is build on make-believe, underfined and meaningless terms.

>>15578113
Give an example

>>15578113
Whatever sense it might or might not make, physics' utility lies in predictability, hence why you can build rocket ships with it.
Modern physicists went all-in on said predictability and left any other considerations to the dust. Any imaginary inventions, so long as it can somehow predicate the numbers, gets enshrined.
Exactly what long-term repercussions this practice will have is anybody's guess. But in the short-term it does make technological progress.
So yes, to put it bluntly, a lot of things are made up. But the made up things do get the job done.

>>15578113
So true. Mass is a meaningless term invented by a fatphobic ideology. The concept should be abolished from physics.

>>15573600
There is no why. Physics is a description of what the universe does not an explanation. There will never be an explanation, at some point things are just the way they are.

>>15579078
>There will never be an explanation, at some point things are just the way they are.
Even if brute facts are granted to exist, why think this particular metaphysic is correct?

>>15579196
Because it gets the job done.
Take the "field" that gets ridiculed left and right. Is there an actual invisible "field" permeating the universe? Who the hell knows. But this imaginary concept helps to mathmatically model the known forces better than any other ideas that got tried, so it stays around for now.
Could it be possible the actual metaphysical reality is really inline with one of the popular schzio theories from /x/? Maybe.
But unfortunely whatever deity that revealed said reality to the DMT tripping schzio didn't deign to gift an unified equation to the aspirant.
Made up concepts fueled by autistic IQ power is yielding infinitely more uility than a possible truth endlessly preached by schizos.
That is the reality right now and that is why this particular set of metaphysic assumptions is staying.

>>15579196
>>15579392
Told you about sterile instrumentalism bro. Epicycles get the job done, no need for Copernicus, Kepler and Galileo.

>noo you need the unnecessarily hard to read bullshit explanations and weird tangents
WHY, there have been so many fucking textbooks where I got angry when I figured something out because they just could have fucking said so

>>15573642
>mass immigration of browns is an "environmental factor"

>>15577217
>fields are mediums in which quarks move
>we can mathematically define them as FIELDS OF EXCITATIONS
yo dude this is sci not science fiction

It's not limited to physics. Science can't answer "What is a woman?"