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/sci/ - Science & Math


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10391708 No.10391708 [Reply] [Original]

Is High Speed Rail a meme? Why not just make airports way more efficient?

>> No.10391726

>>10391708
The countries which got completely obliterated in WWII (All of Western Europe, Japan, China) have high speed rail systems, yet the winner does not somehow.

I contend the corruption is too bad here, as well as the NIMBY-ism (we have to litigate out the ass while contractors get their pockets stuffed).

I'm cynical now and we're probably just going to end up with solar powered planes or algae-derived jet fuel for modernized jets.

>> No.10391742

>>10391708
trains have much lower operating cost, potentially
>>10391726
Not to excuse completely American backwardness, but Europe is much more densely populated

>> No.10391766
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10391766

>>10391742
It was supposed to be viable here, all you'd really have to do is connect two densely populated zones (or even semi-sparse zones like suburbs to the main cities). The best place for this was California, but corruption, lawsuits, and good old fashioned "good enough for government" work killed it. They really should have just connected San Francisco and Sacramento or San Francisco and somewhere halfway to LA as the first stretch; not that retarded route they decided on in the Central Valley. That alone would have alleviated some of the problems of urban sprawl and high cost of living in the area. But no, we can't have that here. Did you know that we got offers from European and Japanese railways to help, but they got turned down because of laws requiring a certain percentage of American contracts? There was even a private funding plan from a French company.

I don't really give a shit anymore, let people be retarded. It's all going to burn down and I'm just going to spend my money preparing and enjoying my muscle cars. Either people get fed up and push hard enough to clear the corruption or we slowly decay further into a backwater where every project just serves to bloat some political donor's wallet.

>> No.10391780

>>10391766
I did not know that, that's pretty terrible
City planning is so openly corrupt in this country I don't understand why we put up with it

>> No.10391818

>>10391726
Rail doesn’t work in the us. It’s much cheaper and faster to fly. Why would any take rail if it costs more and takes much longer?

>> No.10391837

>>10391708
How do you just "make airports efficient"? It's harder to coordinate 20 planes than 20 trains imo.

>> No.10392008

>>10391837
>How do you just "make airports efficient"?
Integrate them into the city better, and not make people arrive an hour before their flight leaves.

>> No.10392144

>>10391726
US had superior rail technology at the time which served to fuel their war effort. Without the extensive railway network in the US, it would have been impossible to have supplied much other than soldiers for the war effort.

>> No.10392187

>>10391708
>Why not just make airports way more efficient?
because we can make trains and they work just fine

>> No.10392387

>>10391708
You cant move planes too fast because air friction will cook passengers inside. Therefore a vacuum tube is the only way to move at velocities higher than Mach 8.

>> No.10392430

>>10391780
Just vote dem and get your gibs, that’s how city politics works
Or vote fo whoever will bring in more cheap foreign workers

>> No.10392454
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10392454

>>10391708

Because that's impossible to do after a certain point. Airports can only have so many gates, so many taxiways, and so many A380s until the airport itself does not have enough highways to feed it with enough passengers. So either you make every airport into a commercial airport and upgrade those to take airliners, or you start adding subways to airports. At some point you're building so many subways it makes sense to connect them through regional rail. At some point you build enough regional rail where high-speed express services make sense.

Airports don't exist in a vacuum, no transportation medium does. It's why even the South is working on a massive regional rail project, even though it's not high-speed. It's the natural result of building up existing cities, even if those cities are built around airports.

>>10391766

>The best place for this was California, but corruption, lawsuits, and good old fashioned "good enough for government" work killed it.

CAHSR isn't dead, ffs Newsom himself clarified his comments and doubled down on supporting a full SF-LA buildout after the speech when he realized he fucked up.

>> No.10392520

>>10392454
And train stations are immune to the problem or too much people flow? Idiot train autists.....

>> No.10392542

>>10392520

No, but they're far more expandable due to their higher throughput. A train can stop, dwell, and get to full speed again in under 5 minutes whereas an airplane would require at least 30 minutes to land, turnaround, and take off again. Trains can also fit more people in, only the A380's proposed all-economy configuration (800 seats) fits more than a train.

This doesn't make them the best in all circumstances but they do well for the sort of high-volume travel airplanes are not. There's a reason why DC's subway chose to start at DC Union Station and not the brand new airport.

>> No.10392658

>>10392430
most dems are just as corrupt at the local level, zoning is almost always about doing someone a favor rather than thinking about the future

>> No.10392671

>>10392454
>Airports can only have so many gates, so many taxiways, and so many A380s until the airport itself does not have enough highways to feed it with enough passengers.
All of this applies to trains too. You can only have so many tracks and so many rail cars.

>> No.10392679

Trains are the single most expensive form of transportation infrastructure to build per passenger throughput. They are extremely wasteful silly pet projects. Even in Europe where high speed rail is heavily subsidized it's still faster and cheaper to fly.

>> No.10392854

>>10391708
Airplanes cannot be made much more efficient according to the laws of physics. Trains can be made to use a lot less energy. Airplanes have to spend energy to stay in the air, whereas trains only have to spend energy to overcome friction. In addition, trains can also recapture their kinetic energy when braking. This is a lot more difficult to accomplish in aircraft

>> No.10392910

>>10392008
Electric planes boi

>> No.10392916

>>10392542
Airports can have their density greatly improved, also they could switch to cheaper fuels like natural gas
Plane turn around could be much improved as well. The things making train stops fast can be duplicated for planes

>> No.10392934

>>10392916
I feel like you have extracted this entire post from your anus.

>> No.10393191
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10393191

>>10391708
*blocks your path*

>> No.10394065
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10394065

>>10391780
>>10392430
>>10392658
Both the parties love to shit taxpayer dollars into their friends' /spouse's hands.

Never forget this too:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy

Part of the reason our cities are fucked is because of motor lobbying/hostile action/takeovers.

>> No.10394067

>>10391708
>>/n/

>> No.10394068

>>10391818
If it was built at the same price in Europe, and only between major cities and nearby suburbs in high economic activity regions (i.e California, because that's one of the few places in the US that needs transport because high-density housing isn't solving the crisis), then it would be viable. We don't need to do the pie in the sky routes across the entire continent, but it would alleviate a ton of traffic problems due to commuting from out of town in places like California and New York (not that they actually have the lack of corruption to pull it off). Planes would still be the best option past ~200 miles.

>> No.10394071

>>10391708
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Central_Railway
Privately funded options might be better.

>> No.10394137

>>10394065

So I see this brought up all of the time, but what advantages does the streetcar have over say a bus? Seems like the bus and not the car killed streetcars.

>> No.10394154
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10394154

Efficient public transportation just gives criminals an easy commute into your neighborhood.

>> No.10394176

>>10394071
When the fuck do they expect to make their money back? 2050?

>> No.10394344

>>10394154
Have you seen how many Somalis own Priuses

>> No.10394349

>>10392008
>and not make people arrive an hour before their flight leaves.
Good fucking luck.

>miss my shinkansen
>theres another one in 15 minutes i can just step on with the same fucking ticket
Assuming I haven't booked an actual seat, but still, the flexibility of a good rail system will never be reached with planes.

>> No.10394356

>>10392679
source?

>> No.10394425

>>10394154
And makes it easier for you to commute to work.
And there aren't that many criminals anyway -- in most developed places it isn't really a risk factor.

>> No.10394993

>>10391818
>Rail doesn’t work in the us. It’s much cheaper and faster to fly.
Do people also enjoy their rectal examinations? You don't get that on the train. Also easier to work on a train, and more spacious.

>> No.10394997

>Why not just make airports way more efficient?
Genius. Why hasn't anyone thought of that?

>> No.10395006

>>10392520
Visit Tokyo central station and you will see the enormous people traffic density involved. It is the hub for all sorts of trains, metro/underground, local trains, airport trains and high speed trains (at least 3 types of Shinkansen). The existence of Tokyo depends on moving enormous amounts of people cheaply and efficiently.

>> No.10396393

>>10394349
Doesn't the Shinkansen operate at capacity all the time? How can it be flexible?

>> No.10396414

>>10391708
Airplanes contribute around 2% of total global warming forcing from human activity BY THEMSELVES. Planes must eventually be banned, and vastly more efficient railways will be their replacement.

>> No.10396431

>>10394993
The 'gatekeeping' at airports is the point (probably to look for ayy hybrids). You losing every right while airborne is the point. This is why the.gov subsidizes airlines. Who also play along with the use of fleets as dosing vehicles.
>>10392854
The modern airliner is a blue tech 'ufo'. They are not dumping kerosene for a classical model take off, or nobody could work there without respirators, no one could live around airports, etc. Jet liners buzz through the air, and likely have the leading edge ionizing tech to reduce drag and accelerate into a forward EM well.
>>10394425
ALL the light rail intercity was tore up across the States to bubble automobiles.