Testing for Personality Disorders

[Anonymous No.10758593]

Hello, /sci/.

I was wondering: could any of you please tell me as to whether or not there are any laws (within the United States, or to be more specific: California) forbidding psychiatrists and/or psychologists from assessing and/or diagnosing their patients for a/any personality disorder (PD) with neither their patients' knowledge nor consent?

I ask, because: I suspect that I may had received some sort of Mental Status Examination (MSE) by a Nurse Practitioner (NP) who was signing my prescriptions for one of my psychiatric medications. That psychiatric medication being a psychostimulant (Adderall), which was supposed to be for the treatment of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). At some point between the dates of: July 2013 and November 2016, I suspect that the NP (possibly along with some of her co-workers and her boss—her boss being my old psychiatrist) must have possibly assessed me for a PD. Possibly something along the lines of: Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD). I may gotten myself diagnosed with a PD, and was probably receiving treatment without being told about any of it.

I am vaguely aware of certain rules and/or regulations regarding this, one rule which I think may apply to this being the so-called: “Goldwater rule”; however, the Goldwater rule does not seem to be in itself a “law” (but more of a “suggestion” made by the American Psychiatric Association). The Goldwater rule apparently forbids psychiatrists from commenting on individuals' mental states without examining them personally and without being authorized by the person to make such comments; but, it would seem that some psychiatrists and psychologists ignore the Goldwater rule.

I am also aware that under certain circumstances, that psychiatrists will not tell their patients about their diagnosis, such as certain patients diagnosed with: Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD).

[Anonymous No.10758602]

I asked my second psychotherapist about this (who works in a clinic completely separate from the offices in which I believe I received the MSE for PDs) and she told me that, legally, I would have to be told: that I would be receiving an MSE, of my diagnosis, and of my treatment (if I had, in fact, been diagnosed with anything). However, when I first signed the forms to see my psychiatrist back in July 2013, I ended up signing a, “Physician-Patient Arbitration Agreement” which stated, “NOTICE: BY SIGNING THIS CONTRACT YOU ARE AGREEING TO HAVE ANY ISSUE OF MEDICAL MALPRACTICE DECIDED BY NEUTRAL ARBITRATION AND YOU ARE GIVING UP YOUR RIGHT TO A JURY OR COURT TRIAL.”

I've also been told that the “official” way for testing for PDs is only possible with the “Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory - 2” (MMPI-2); additionally, I've already been administered the MMPI-2 (administered to me by a psychologist back in July of 2016) and been told that I don't have a PD. However: I'm now being told by my third psychotherapist (the subordinate of the psychologist who evaluated me for PDs back in 2016) that my current diagnosis—Major Depressive Disorder—Social Anxiety Disorder—Generalized Anxiety Disorder—could completely change at any point during psychotherapy and that she could easily decide that I actually do have a PD (without her bothering to tell me as to how she would go about diagnosing me as having a PD).

[Anonymous No.10758613]

So, then: how (exactly) do people who work within the mental health care system go about testing patients for PDs? I've read a lot about psychological and sociological experiments, and this has led me to wonder: could a mental health care worker go about conducting a MSE to examine their patient for PDs with neither their patient's knowledge nor consent? Is the MMPI (or any other diagnostic classification and rating scales used in psychiatry) really the only way to test for PDs? And if not, how else could they go about it? Furthermore: how could a mental health care worker possibly know that a patient is being completely honest with their behavior and/or answers?

The MMPI-2 kind of felt like a total waste of 7 hours out of my time and $700 out of my wallet. My first psychiatrist even seemed to agree with me on this as he had admitted to me that he believed the MMPI to be: “not very scientific” (his exact words).

It seems like it would be too easy to “cheat” the MMPI-2. Not that I was necessarily trying to cheat the MMPI-2; although, I admit that I did actually consider for a short time looking up the MMPI-2 on the internet to see if it was available to review, but I didn't really try very hard… but let me put it this way: these last few years I've spent a great deal of time reading about psychiatry, psychology, psychotherapy, PDs, mental disorders, etc. I had first heard about the MMPI-2 back in around June of 2016 (after I had inquired to my psychiatrist about testing for PDs, and having him inform me of the MMPI-2 and that it wasn't performed at any of his offices).

[Anonymous No.10758618]

When I was taking the MMPI-2, some of the questions were things like: “I believe that spirits communicate through me. True or False?” I'd see questions like that and then I'd quietly think to myself: “This seems like the sort of question that a person with Schizotypal Personality Disorder and/or schizophrenia might answer 'True'. I don't want to get myself diagnosed with schizophrenia, do I? They'll just take away my Adderall and probably prescribe me an antipsychotic (Abilify) instead. Regardless, I don't actually believe that spirits communicate through me... do I? Well, I sort of used to. During childhood. And part of my adolescence. But that was then and this is now. I'm 27 now. I don't believe in that sort of stuff anymore. Or do I? Just answer the question already! OK! False.”

Other questions were things like: “My friends often tell me that I have terrible fashion sense. True or False?” I thought to myself: “How am I supposed to answer a question like that? This question does not apply to me because I have no friends.”

Another question might be something like: “The world would be a better place if I ruled the world. True or False?” Then I'd think: “OK. That's the sort of question that would require a complicated answer. How much power would I have? Would I be elected? How agreeable are the people of that world? How many people would agree with me that abortions should be 100% legal in every country?”

[Anonymous No.10758619]

>>10758602
epic

that’s really cool, you should all definitely trust these people because they passed biochem

[Anonymous No.10758625]

The point that I'm trying to make is... I didn't try to cheat the MMPI-2, but what is stopping somebody from cheating the MMPI-2? Here's a hypothetical scenario: let's take a person with NPD (for example). This person has the PD, but neither he nor anybody else knows it yet. He hasn't been officially diagnosed with it. This person wants to have himself tested for PDs to prove to himself and to everyone else that he doesn't have one. The guy could probably be considered to be highly intelligent, and has excellent memory. He's spent a lot of time reading about: psychology, PDs, mental disorders, etc. He knows just the right way to answer to all of the questions. He's also a pathological liar. He's such a good liar that he's managed to successfully lie to himself. He believes his own lies. He rationalizes his own actions. He believes himself that he's a good person, but deep down inside he may know that he really isn't. He wants to prove to himself and to the whole world that he's a good person. So he goes on to get himself tested for PDs. Subconsciously, he knows exactly how to answer all of the questions, and exactly how to behave when he's around the psychologist. And he's going to do just that. Maybe he's doing it subconsciously, or maybe even consciously. He then gets told that he doesn't have any PDs. He passed. He got what he wanted. This guy didn't cheat one of those polygraph machines... he did cheat a human polygraph, though.

But my third psychotherapist told me that it's impossible to cheat the MMPI-2 because it was specifically designed to detect dishonesty.

I would really like to know if there really are any such laws and where I could read about them.

Thanks in advance to anybody who can help me.

[Anonymous No.10758805]

These tests alone are not sufficient for a diagnosis, only in combination with a personal assessment through personal conversation by a professional

[Anonymous No.10759091]

>>10758805

>These tests alone are not sufficient for a diagnosis, only in combination with a personal assessment through personal conversation by a professional

Indeed. I spent a total of seven hours with the psychologist who evaluated me back in July of 2016, about six of those hours were spent on the MMPI-2 along with other tests, questionnaires, rating scales, etc., while the last hour was spent speaking with the psychologist. The psychologist told me that those seven hours were sufficient to evaluate someone for personality disorders, and that this was the *only* way to evaluate for personality disorders. However, when I went to go see his subordinate as he recommended (my third psychotherapist), she told me that she could very easily decide at any point during my psychotherapy treatment that I actually *do* have a personality disorder, for whatever reason. Without even telling me how she'd go about it. Does that make any sense to you? That a psychologist tells me that the MMPI-2 along with a one-hour-long conversation with him is the *only* way to evaluate for personality disorders, while his subordinate tells me that she could decide to change my diagnosis after my diagnosis had already been determined by her boss?

[Anonymous No.10759107]

>>10758625
Why would you go through the trouble of testing to prove that you don't have a PD.

[Anonymous No.10759146]

>>10759107

>Why would you go through the trouble of testing to prove that you don't have a PD.

Because for years I have had people telling me that I'm "oversensitive" and "weak". So for the longest time I wondered if I really was oversensitive and weak, possibly due to a personality disorder such as narcissistic personality disorder. So I decided to get myself tested for narcissistic personality disorder, all other personality disorders, and all mental disorders. I learned that I did not have narcissistic personality disorder, nor any other personality disorder whatsoever. I instead ended up getting myself diagnosed with major depressive disorder, social anxiety disorder, and generalized anxiety disorder. I'm not entirely sure if that still suggests that I am oversensitive and weak. And if I am indeed quite oversensitive and weak, does that mean that I deserve the abuse that I get? If I don't deserve it, then why do people continue to abuse me?

[Anonymous No.10759176]

>>10758593
If we are not talking involuntary treatment or minors, you are never going to be diagnosed without your "consent". Just don't show up. As for your knowledge, there is nothing that absolutely requires a doctor to tell you the diagnosis, naturally you can access your own patient information. Not telling the patient is very poor practice though, and could get you in trouble if any malpractice happens.

The BPD stuff is a bit muddy, it used to have a double meaning for a certain type of person between psychiatrists, but the meaning leaked eventually and some people might still interpret it wrong due to this.

It's hard to lie on MMPI-style stuff as internal consistency is also looked at and it takes a fairly intelligent individual to consistently lie through all those mundane questions.

There doesn't need to be any specific criteria for any diagnoses in a legal sense, but if I don't follow commonly agreed practices, I'll be in trouble if there is any malpractice cases and the insurance company will probably refuse to pay for such stuff.

[Anonymous No.10759184]

>>10759146
People can just be shitty. Nobody deserves abuse.

[Anonymous No.10759586]

>>10759184

My problem is that whenever I've been hurt by people's abuse, people have told me that I'm just "weak" or "oversensitive". But nobody has been able to define for me what it means to be "weak" or "oversensitive". I haven't been able to understand why it is okay for people to call me a "retard", but not okay for me to tell my mother that her breath smells. So I figured that if I had gotten myself diagnosed with NPD, that a professional would be able to define for me what it means to be "weak" or "oversensitive". But I wasn't diagnosed with NPD. I was diagnosed with MDD, SAD, and GAD. And ever since I received my official diagnosis, not one person has been able to define for me what it means to be "weak" or "oversensitive". In fact, even now people abuse me (sometimes worse than before) knowing that I have MDD and SAD. People continue to call me a "retard", but as soon as I snap and call someone else a retard, I suddenly become the villain.

[Anonymous No.10759628]

>>10758593
This genius book DSM-5 says that if you have lingering sadness for more than two weeks after the death of a loved one then it means that you have a mental illness and ought to be medicated. If you are sad for 15 days after the death of a wife or child, this book says you are diseased because a healthy person would go back to normal in at most 14 days.
>doctors
>science