/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.11376782]

Why do medical doctors get paid more than engineers? Engineering is a much harder subject, it's rigorous and intellectually demanding. Medicine is mostly memorisation and rote learning. So why should glorified nurses be paid more than engineers?

[Anonymous No.11376853]

>>11376782
idk bro might have something to do with them saving people's lives

[Anonymous No.11376857]

>>11376853
>looking up symptoms in a database and handing out a bottle of pills is saving lives

[Anonymous No.11376865]

>>11376857
>t. couldn't get in

[Anonymous No.11376874]

>>11376782
>”Engineering is a much harder subject, it's rigorous and intellectually demanding. Medicine is mostly memorisation and rote learning. So why should glorified nurses be paid more than engineers?”
sounds like doctors should earn more then, since they were smart enough to pick the easier course with more demand instead of busting their ass to develop javascript apps for a living

[Anonymous No.11376878]

>>11376865
I'm doing a harder subject, EE.

[Anonymous No.11376890]

Long education (and associated debt), short supply and needed everywhere.

Sorry you feel wronged

[Anonymous No.11376894]

>>11376782
Engineers don't have residency and the years of training that doctors have, so there's a higher barrier to entry there

[Anonymous No.11376901]

>>11376890
>>11376894
Doctors are brainlets that can't even do calc 3

[Anonymous No.11376946]

>>11376782
Beats me.
Medicine killed more people than it saved probably until the early 20th century.
One in three deaths in the US are due to medical errors:
>https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

[Anonymous No.11376958]

>>11376857
Yes because symptoms can't be shared by multiple diseases or anything

[Anonymous No.11376966]

>>11376853
I wonder how well they do without equipment developed by engineers and drugs developed by chemists. Oops, they don't.

[Anonymous No.11376968]

idk but I don't mind it one but
I stopped pursuing an engineering career and went to med school because I had really good grades in everything and not half bad ones in biology and I hated math despite being good at it
Med school is amazing, its long but all I know in life is studying so it's all good
Also I discovered I really REALLY enjoy watching the insides of people in autopsies and operations, it's such a surreal experience.

[Anonymous No.11376971]

>>11376901
Ask any math/physics professor who's had the misfortune of dealing with premeds, and they'll tell you they're their worst, most entitled students.

[Anonymous No.11376985]

>>11376958
So it's just guess work.The part that isn't can be automated and delegated to a reliable machine.

[Anonymous No.11376989]

>>11376782
Engineers only need a 4-year bachelor's degree from any mediocre school

[Anonymous No.11377025]

You can't outsource medicine that's why.

If engineering get's too expensive you move it to China but doctor's in China cannot treat people in New Jersey.

[Anonymous No.11377042]

>>11376853
>Engineer designs a bridge, a bridge which thousands if not millions will rely upon and which could potentially cause catastrophic damage to both infrastructure and humans were it to collapse
>Doctor prescribes pills to some dude
>Select all images with bridges

[Anonymous No.11377058]

>>11376782
>Engineering is a much harder subject
it's not
t.engineer

[Anonymous No.11377060]

>>11376878
I'm in pharmacy school and one of the students graduated with nuclear engineering the year Fukushima happened and could only get a job as a Walgreen's tech. Cope.

[Anonymous No.11377082]

>>11377060
>my anecdotal evidence is evidence of a trend

[Anonymous No.11377085]

>>11377025
>but doctor's in China cannot treat people in New Jersey.
Yet.

[Anonymous No.11377161]

>>11376782
They devote their whole lives to it. They study for 6-7 years and work 36 hour shifts sometimes. The fact that there's a disproportionately low amount of doctors on this site should tell you something about how much time they have to waste.
>>11376857
You can dismiss anything like that. Stuff aren't the way you studied it. You spend time with all these complex topics in ee school and you come out and work programming in C++ on a microcontroller/dsp.
Fire fighters don't spend every day rescuing people from burning buildings, most of the time it's retards stuck in elevators.

[Anonymous No.11377167]

>>11376782
engineers can make more than doctors.

[Anonymous No.11377171]

>>11376878
Seems about the same to me. Everyone on this board thinks their major is the hardest.

[Anonymous No.11377182]

>>11376782
Because engineers are the peak cucks of the techno industrial society.
They get lorded over by business graduates like chickens by farmers.
When an engineer takes testosterone supplements he will often become an executive or a manager in less than a year, realizing how pathetic his of idiot savant condition is.
Society feels pity and disdain for such a weak creature.

In the meantime a MD is a man of science, a shaman and a leader all at the same time with a holistic yet intimate and humble knowledge of the body and the soul.
Equally praised and envied by the people.

[Anonymous No.11378752]

supply and demand.

[Anonymous No.11378756]

>>11376782
Fuck off with labor theory garbage.

[Anonymous No.11378757]

>>11376857
the pharm reps might kill themselves if they didn't hit their sales targets, stop vilifying this noble profession

[Anonymous No.11378771]

>>11378752
That would be true if we lived in a free market economy (spoiler: we don't).

>>11376782
>Engineering is a much harder subject, it's rigorous and intellectually demanding
A human body is a much more complex system than a bridge or even a plane. There is a gorillion of things that could go wrong and the doctor has to bear responsibility for it.

[Anonymous No.11378819]

Some engineers make more money than primary care docs.
I won’t argue that there are probably more engineers more intellectually gifted than docs. I got in med school with a 3.5 from a low tier university for undergrad, got into a low tier med school that’s pass/fail, and did alright on my step exams and boards. Played COD every night and skipped classes a lot too, it wasn’t too difficult.
I need to repay my student loans so I’m glad medicine gets paid more

>t. General surgery resident making $65,000/year
>days without suicidal thoughts: 0

[Anonymous No.11378822]

>>11376782
Alright, I'm here to settle this once and for all. I'm an MD/PhD working with engineers and physicists.
You are all fucking retarded, I was just a little bit better than my peers in med school but you all hard science fuckers seem absolutely retarded, any one of my medpals could learn all of your undergrad material in 3 weeks, I know because I had to do it in less time. If you even were able to comprehend the complexity of reasoning that a nephrology resident has to apply for every patient you would realize your absolute inferiority and kill yourselves.
Now do me a favor and go suck the dick you nearest doctor for even acting like we are the same species you fucking disgusting apes.

[Anonymous No.11378824]

Maybe its just me being retarded, but i use the net if i dont know sth. an calculator to do math, and a machine to correct my writing. A care to carry heavy things. An escalator to get up the stairs. I know many of you want me to be a computer, or at least a good machine, but im to low 4 this.

[Anonymous No.11379073]

>>11378822
Well you're both MD and phd so you don't count.

[Anonymous No.11379103]

it's one of the hardest fields to get into and it takes a lot of time for you to be allowed to diagnose and treat people.
you need a minimum of 6 years + 2 years just to become just a general doctor, of course that is excluding practice and the long ass time it takes for you to get experience and to be allowed to work on your own.
>diagnosis is easy
a prolonged headache could mean anything from dehydration to brain cancer, you have to know everything about almost every illness in order to be able to diagnose properly

[Anonymous No.11379115]

>>11379103
yeah sounds like a hard job. If your society replaced humans docs with computer programs, i maybe go an check my self about health related issues.

[Anonymous No.11379125]

>>11376782
medical treatment is an inelastic demand, so if you're in the states, free market efficiency doesn't apply to the field.

https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2014/05/pay-french-doctor.html

I'd hazard a guess that an average engineer would struggle to become an average doctor if they decided to try.

I think the highest intelligence ceiling is outside practicing medicine. That's why medical researchers have to get another degree on top of their MD.

That being said, plenty of MD's were trained by a generation of doctors who solely practiced eminence based medicine. Sure it's hard, but you don't need domain knowledge to see elements of living history.

I'm most interested in what machine learning will do to the field. Hell I know insurance database engineers contributing to diagnostic tools and procedures saving lives doctors might not have, but they wouldn't have made it through med school.

[Anonymous No.11379204]

>>11376782
Because medical doctors have a better “union”
the AMA functions as a guild and routinely restricts the natural number of doctors that get approved rising your total medical costs
They mis projected in the 90s , leading to a major doctor shortage for awhile.

[Anonymous No.11379222]

>>11379115
there is already a lot of websites that can tell you what your symptoms mean but those are rarely as accurate as a doctor and they rarely help. also there is the psychological and the human contact aspect of it

[Anonymous No.11379226]

>>11376853
bullshit. they kill more people than they save

[Anonymous No.11379228]

>>11376946
anyone undergoing a medical procedure that has the potential to kill them almost certainly 1.) had a shit quality of life anyways, 2.) was likely to die, 3.) was an idiot

[Anonymous No.11379232]

>>11376946
That's because american doctors are the worst in the world.

[Anonymous No.11379239]

>>11376782
>Why do engineers earn less than doctors?
>Why do engineers study for half the time a doctor does to get qualified?
You’ll find the answer to both of these questions to be the same

[Anonymous No.11379249]

>>11379239
Because medicine is an unsystematic piece of trash.

[Anonymous No.11379251]

>>11379249
If doctors disappeared, most people would hardly notice and we would save trillions. If trashmen disappeared, we would be in big trouble in a month.

[Anonymous No.11379275]

>>11377171
>grouping hard sciences and math together with life sciences so they could just barely squeeze themselves above the real scientists

[Anonymous No.11379280]

>>11379251
>We would hardly notice
>We would save trillions
Imagine saying something as retarded as “we won’t notice and the economy will benefit from people who are crippled or in a medical emergency going untreated”.

[Anonymous No.11379282]

>>11379280
Doctors are far more likely to hurt you even more than actually help you. Most common ailments are untreatable and you will be told to blame yourself.

[Anonymous No.11379284]

>>11379280
Doctors are far more likely to hurt you even more than actually help you. Most common ailments are untreatable and you will be told to blame yourself, your genes or your age.

[Anonymous No.11379290]

>>11379282
>Doctors are far more likely to hurt you even more than actually help you. Most common ailments are untreatable and you will be told to blame yourself.

>Have constant knee pains
>See a physio
>Get referred to a specialist
>Get diagnosed with meniscal tears (likely congenital since I had no injuries and don’t play contact sports)
>Have surgery
>Don’t have any knee issues afterwards
Have you ever seen a proper doctor in your life, or are you just refusing to take your meds again?

[Anonymous No.11379294]

>>11379284
>Edits his reply to include every cause of disease except infections
You do realise things other than infection cause disease, right?

[Anonymous No.11379301]

>>11379290
I'm pretty sure that isn't the most common ailment by far. Yes, injuries can usually be taken care of. I mean more like.
Diabetes. Dubious drugs, it's your fault.
You have cancer. Lets poison or irradiate your body and hope your body is stronger than the cancer.
High blood pressure. Dubious drugs and it's your fault.
Alzheimers. No treatment. Research wandering in circles.
Bad veins. Untreatable. You're fat anyway.
Oh sorry, you never had cancer, it was a false positive.
...

[Anonymous No.11379315]

>>11379301
>Diabetes type 2
Literally caused by excess insulin levels, triggered by constant high sugar levels. Stop eating excessive sugars and the triggering condition goes away.
>Chemotherapy
Cancer undergoes mitosis pretty rapidly. Chemo targets cells with a high reproduction rate. Sure, your hair, nails and gut suffer as a result, but it’s the best treatment there is at the moment. Find a better way of killing the cells that are almost identical to the body you are trying to save. Nobody says it’s your fault unless you snort absestos or don’t use sunscreen or something else retarded.
>High blood pressure
How are you an expert on if the drugs work or not? It also has a genetic component; that’s why you need to declare if you have a family history of it on medical disclosure forms
>Alzheimer’s
How is it a doctor’s fault if the disease isn’t understood yet? It’s complex, if you’re so smart you should find out what causes it and treat it to make millions.
>Bad veins
The fuck are you talking about?
>False positive for cancer
It doesn’t usually get to the point of surgery or chemo since doctors will usually take a biopsy first to confirm the diagnosis.

[Anonymous No.11379333]

>>11379315
>>Diabetes type 2
So in other words it¨s your fault. (even thouh this explanation is clearly bullshit)
>>High blood pressure
Your genes.
> It’s complex
Excuses.
>if you’re so smart you should find out what causes it and treat it to make millions.
It might be known, but there is no way to make money on that: https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlehtml/2017/mt/c7mt00074j
>The fuck are you talking about?
Atherosclerosis

[Anonymous No.11379345]

i once had a pericoronitis (gums getting in the way of biting) then this dentist said it wouldn't be gone unless a surgery takes place. it costed like 80 or so dollars and said fuck it. a week later it just dissapeared. doctors are such scammers

[Anonymous No.11379349]

>>11379345
it didn't go away

[Anonymous No.11379355]

>>11376782
engineering jobs are generally easy, being a doctor is difficult OR at least extremely exhausting.

the question you are asking OP looks totally ridiculous to engineers in Europe, who get paid basically the same as almost anyone else, let alone doctors.

[Anonymous No.11379357]

>>11379333
>Denies the existence of genetic disease and shitty diets
I’m sure you know more than the people who studied the topic for a decade.

[Anonymous No.11379361]

>>11379349
it did. the gums that were on the way of a biting just decided to die from my excessive mistakes on biting on them

[Anonymous No.11379363]

Would you guys be interested getting your DNA tested for everything?
I bet that would put doctors out of business or they'd become code monkeys

[Anonymous No.11379370]

>>11379363
>Giving doctors another tool for diagnosing would put them out of business

[Anonymous No.11379377]

>>11379357
People are losing limbs over it. Don't you think it wouldn't happen if it could be cured by not eating any sugar?

Also, I pretty much said Alzheimers is from a shitty diet.

[Anonymous No.11379386]

>>11379377
I don’t think diabetes should be more rare, because self control is rare when it comes to these things. People think “surely this won’t happen to me” and then get surprised when it does.

And you never mentioned you thought Alzheimer’s was due to diet, you just said “it’s complex” is an excuse.
Regardless of cause, a doctors job is to diagnose and treat. If they see an issue caused by your diet, they’re job shouldn’t be to surgery an option into your gut, it’s to tell you to eat better.

[Anonymous No.11379410]

>>11379386
Sure. The problem is that doctors keep insisting on diet even though it obviously doesn't work. I admit, it makes sense to eat less sugar if you have too much of it in your blood, but since it obviously doesn't seem to be working, you need to look elsewhere.

>And you never mentioned you thought Alzheimer’s was due to diet, you just said “it’s complex” is an excuse.

I posted a link showing that Alzheimer's brains are missing normal amounts of nutrients. The obvious thing to try would be to supplement the missing nutrients. It doesn't make sense trying anything else before you try that.

[Anonymous No.11379426]

>>11379410
>I posted a link showing that Alzheimer's brains are missing normal amounts of nutrients. The obvious thing to try would be to supplement the missing nutrients. It doesn't make sense trying anything else before you try that.
The study talks about brain-copper concentrations. That doesn’t mean that there’s a dietary copper deficiency (since it’s almost impossible to avoid copper in your diet unless you have a gut disturbance that stops you absorbing it), it just means there’s an issue in the brain’s homeostasis.
Also, here’s a literature review looking at the role of copper in Altzeimers. It shows that some studies find excess brain copper, and others show brain copper deficiency. The conclusion of it is that instead of being a dietary deficiency, it is a disruption of the copper homeostatic mechanisms in the brain.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5810277/

[Anonymous No.11379435]

>>11376782
>Engineering is a much harder subject
Lmao.
>>11376857
>looking up symptoms in a database and handing out a bottle of pill
Yeah pretty much covers medicine in it's entirety. If only there were less qualified people who covered that aspect, we could pay them less, that's a great idea bro.

[Anonymous No.11379451]

>>11376782

Let's put it this way.
Why do waiters get tips but dock workers don't?
People go to doctors.
They see and interact with doctors.
They rely on doctors for personal reasons and get relatively quick if not instant gratification.

Now do doctors actually provide a greater benefit to society than something like an engineer?
I would honestly say no they don't at all but this is the reason they get paid more.
Basically people are just shallow and selfish and will always value the person at the forefront that they can see over the one behind the scenes who actually contributes more

[Anonymous No.11379453]

>>11377085
>>11377085

it will be possible with 5G I'm well aware!

I'm EE not a doc so I dont care.

[Anonymous No.11379459]

Imagine wasting time replying to frustrated code monkey incels undergrad when you're a med school Chad.
Go back learning your shit you idiots.

[Anonymous No.11379473]

>>11379459
was about to type a reply, then decided to continue studying genomics

[Anonymous No.11379474]

>>11379426
Why doesn't it mean there is copper deficiency, but high sugar levels mean there must be sugar excess? Be consistent, at least.
>(since it’s almost impossible to avoid copper in your diet unless you have a gut disturbance that stops you absorbing it)
Copper levels in western diets are low and declining. Processed food often has its copper chelated to prevent browning.

> It shows that some studies find excess brain copper, and others show brain copper deficiency. The conclusion of it is that instead of being a dietary deficiency, it is a disruption of the copper homeostatic mechanisms in the brain.

Why would you conclude that without trying to supplement copper first?

[Anonymous No.11379534]

>>11376782
If engineers fuck up, machines break down or a cable is badly laid down or a road is bumpy and shit. If doctors fuck up, people die.

[Anonymous No.11379550]

>>11379474
Except high dietary sugar levels are an established cause of high insulin levels.
Here’s a source:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5426415/

>Copper levels in western diets are low and declining. Processed food often has its copper chelated to prevent browning.
You got a source for that? I got one claiming the opposite:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK222312/

[Anonymous No.11379553]

>>11378822
>nephrology resident

Good example

[anonymous No.11379559]

>>11379534
yeah or a bridge breaks down and crashes into the water because they fucked up people die too

[Anonymous No.11379572]

>>11379474
I’ll try my best to answer (I’m just a general surgeon so low on totem pole of intellect)

In a nutshell, research on the brain is still developing, there are many contributing factors associated with Alzheimer’s or other organic diseases. Out of the many questionable studies, we have learned thus far that dark chocolate, Alaskan blueberries, mental activity engagement, heavy metals, trauma, CO poisoning, etc etc as associated factors for development or mitigating.

The problem lies with the limits to perform a successful study. Often only animal studies are approved by IRBs.
These studies are generally all retroactive observational studies that have so many covariates to conclude on meaningfulness.
On a side note, though a majority of medical research is sound, a growing number of studies are bullshit. We are immersed in “p-value” hunting culture, results are manipulated to be meaningful. This means more money will be thrown at these researchers to fund additional studies (no one is going to fund a group that fails to find associations).

Pharmaceuticals are notorious for meddling with research, I believe one of the anticoagulants was led by a researcher that sat on the board for GSK

I’m rambling, but just wanted to demonstrate that most studies aren’t the double blind controlled studies but are mere observational retrospective studies

[Anonymous No.11380851]

>>11379559
There is a difference between engineering a car with a shit engine that breaks down and could potentially kill someone if it happens on the road and screwing up a procedure during, say, heart surgery which will DEFINITELY kill someone.

[Anonymous No.11380855]

>>11380851
The heart surgeon I know complains that all he ever does is extend the meaningless lives of near dead octogenarians by 6 - 12 months.

[Anonymous No.11381077]

nobody remembers medics while there are countless ultra famous engineers

[Anonymous No.11381097]

>>11376782
>Why do medical doctors get paid more than engineers?
Doctors are essentially a people technician. Diagnosis and service, occasional repair as appropriate. The immense amount of training and specialization places it as a vocation few are willing to invest into, and demand is higher than ever. Probably explains the high wages as a result. Advanced as ever but still primitive.

[Anonymous No.11381108]

>>11381097
Does this mean that in the future genetic engineers(like monsanto and that Chinese guy) will become people engineers, and become the chaddiest of all professions?

[Anonymous No.11381132]

>>11381108
>future genetic engineers
>become the chaddiest of all professions?
Nah. Smartypants are useful but not very influential. Engineering is one of those professions where society provides just enough concessions and benefits for tech people to toil away for them. Society likes the comforts and convenience of these advancements but otherwise techies are invisible like all the others who are the silent backbone of civilization. No matter the pay, it provides little to no elevation of prestige or influence.

[Anonymous No.11381138]

>>11381077
name a countless number of ultra famous engies

[Anonymous No.11381155]

>>11381138
>ultra famous engies
Bill Nye the Science™ Guy. Not for his engineering chops (which are unknown) but because of his TV personality and poor temperament in meatspace.

Nikola Tesla, not as the inventor but as a meme thanks to Elon Musk's choice of company naming.

Engineers aren't known to the public except by other engineers, and even then only by a few. The ones that are famous aren't because of their qualifications.

[Anonymous No.11381161]

>>11381138
Charles Babbage, Nikola Tesla, Leonardo da Vinci, Benjamin Franklin

[Anonymous No.11381166]

>>11377182
u sound jelly u cant do engineering problems honestly. manager or executive? lol boring social roles mostly

doctors are mostly smart file machines too, don't feel envy or benevolence towards them honestly. look up dax cowart: is it really great what medicine does in all circumstances?

[Anonymous No.11381174]

>>11376782
Because jews prefer doctor career to engineer career.

[Anonymous No.11381241]

>>11381138
>>11381155
Famous Engineers:
Elon Musk
Ben Franklin
Da Vinci
Thomas Edison
Nikola Tesla
Alan Turing
Wernher von Braun
Henry Ford
Wright Brothers
Loads and loads of silicon valley guys

Famous Doctors:
???? umm
Ben Carson

[Anonymous No.11381428]

>>11377171
>mds smarter that EEs.

Nice bait.

>>11376782
Their supply is tightly controlled so that they can protect their jobs and salaries form newcomers.
They are much more regulated and exposed to legal risk as well.

>>11379125
basically this

[Anonymous No.11381558]

>>11379550
>Except high dietary sugar levels are an established cause of high insulin levels.
No they are not. Your source doesn't say so, actually recommends a high carb diet.
>You got a source for that? I got one claiming the opposite:
It doesn't say anything like that. Look up the recommended intake for pigs. It's so high it got banned in the EU because the EU deemed it a heavy metal hazard. Those tiny numbers must be wrong. One reason why it might be wrong is that blood plasma levels seem to rise with copper deficiency, and in general there is no good way to measure copper in the body, so most of the studies are basically worthless.
>>11379572
Well if autopsies tells you that certain nutrients are missing from the brains of the ill people, I don't really see what prevents trying to supplement the people with the missing nutrient. Informally if it has to be. It's basically completely pointless to do any other research until you try that.
>>11380855
That's what I meant above. Medicine knows basically nothing about keeping people helthy. The vast majority of resources is spent on making extremely ill people live at best few months longer.

[Anonymous No.11381602]

>>11376782
>>11379435
>>11381097
>>11381132
>>11381428
Nobody is legally allowed to compete with doctors.

[Anonymous No.11381604]

>>11381558
>Doesn’t understand that there’s a difference between a diet high in carbohydrates and a diet high in sugars (and the review actually mentions sugary diets causing diabetes, if you bothered to read it properly).
>Asserts that the population is copper deficient, but refuses to find sources backing up the view that the current recommended daily intake is too low or that average consumption fails to meet this.
>Completely ignores the other half of the Alzheimer’s studies that suggest copper toxicity is a factor, which is why the prevalent view is that copper homeostasis is disrupted (rather than there being a deficiency or excess).

[Anonymous No.11381605]

>>11381602
Nobody can legally compete with engineers either retard. The qualification exists so that brainlets who don’t know what they are doing don’t kill people.

[Anonymous No.11381639]

>>11381605
Anybody can engineer anything they want, the only thing that matters is if it works.

[Anonymous No.11381675]

>>11376782
They don't under medical for all. Contruction works earn more than PhDs in Australia because the public health system pays like shit. That's why all the 3rd world doctors come to Australia.

[Anonymous No.11381678]

>>11376857
Lots of cope in the (you)s, but I've worked with a lot of doctors and I can confirm the majority of them do this as their entire job. Had one guy tell me he legitimately uses webmd to make diagnoses. If you ever have lyme and spend six months wasting away before you manage to get an actually competent doctor, well now you know why that happened.

[Anonymous No.11381679]

>>11381675
Mainly because unions control the supply of construction workers just like for doctors.
Unions should control the supply of every degree

[Anonymous No.11381684]

>>11381679
Nope it's because public health pays like shit and we have next to no private health here.

[Anonymous No.11381690]

>>11381679
I earn 140k as a pipe welder and I'm not in a union. My best mate earns 180k as a rigger (crane operator) and he isn't in a union either.

[Anonymous No.11381691]

>>11381679
Oh and geotechnicians which require ZERO study earn over 100k p/a and they aren't unionized. So yeah. Public health kills medical wages.

[Anonymous No.11381696]

>>11381691
>>11381690
>>11381684
Cherry picking and anecdotal evidence
>hey look at that software developer who doesn't need unions
>hey I'm fixing drain pipes and don't need no unions

I can claim unemployment is at an all time high whatever the government says.

[Anonymous No.11381712]

>>11376782
do they? not where i live, unless you are a famous professor, also you get sued all the time (even if it rarely ends with the doc being actually guilty)

[Anonymous No.11381720]

>>11376782
You're not paid on how difficult your job is, otherwise iron workers would be making $300k+ and middle managers would make minimum wage.
The reality is that the pipeline to become a doctor is stupid long, expensive, and demanding process.

>4 year BS degree
>pass MCAT
>4 years of med school
>pass US med license exam
>complete 3+ years as a resident making $60k
>get board certified
>get your state license

At that point you basically have spent 12+ years of your life and are now finally able to get that $200k+ job to pay off your $200k+ of debt.
Meanwhile, CS bro graduated after just 4 years, and while you were in med school/residency for 8 years, he was making $120k+.

[Anonymous No.11381736]

>>11381720
They only hand out a limited number of medical licenses therefore keeping the supply low and unemployment low and wages high

[Anonymous No.11381745]

>>11378822
Lol MD/PhD? So 4 for the Bachelor's, four at med school, 3-7 more as a resident after however long getting your PhD making ~55k. I'll take my EE from my state uni and make twice what you make for a decade. By the time your salary catches up I'll be retiring. You'll still be in student loan debt. Did you just go to school straight out of highschool until you were 35? Even CS and math degrees make avg 100,000 after four years. Absolutely cucked by higher education. If you aren't a maxillofacial surgeon it is not ever going to pay off.
Nice larp tho. 4/10

[Anonymous No.11381760]

>>11376782
You know doctors charge you what they want to charge, right? Most are small business owners setting up shop in a hospital and after paying rent/fees/sectary salaries/etc they collect the profit.

This isn't every doctor, as there are 100 models, private vs public hospitals, and insurance groups that dictate things, but guaranteed the above model is the type you're thinking of

[Anonymous No.11381765]

>>11381736
Christ that's fucking stupid.
I was just speaking for some of my friends who had an interest in medicine, but upon seeing how you spend 12+ years working 80 hour weeks and making shit wages, they noped the fuck out of that.

[Anonymous No.11381779]

>>11381765
Better than being a phd with 10 publications and no job.
Medicine is the safe choice. You know you have a place here

[Anonymous No.11381811]

>>11381745
>maxillofacial surgeon
That's a dentistry specialty.

[Anonymous No.11381834]

>>11379435
>Lmao.
Year 1 fluid dynamics is more difficult than anything doctors do in their entire training and fluid dynamics is easy.

[Anonymous No.11381843]

>>11381834
Lol, if engineering was as complex as medicine, you would have to learn separate equations for water flowing over a flat surface, oil in a bottle, gas in a tank, gas flowing through a valve, oil flowing through a valve and water being forced into a sponge under pressure. Each taught separately, with it's own names and equations.

[Anonymous No.11382010]

>>11381779
I'd personally prefer to spend as little time in school as possible.

[Anonymous No.11382013]

>>11382010
the best idea it's to not study then

[Anonymous No.11382207]

>>11376782
liability.

[Anonymous No.11382404]

>>11381843
If you think that sounds hard then you're retarded. The hard part of engineering isn't memorizing equations, it's making a reliable design within the envelope you have to work with. Typical MDs are the technicians of the medical world, memorizing a million rules to make quick patches. The actual work is done by biologists/etc. doing research and (surprise!) engineers turning that research into medical products and equipment.

[Anonymous No.11382421]

>>11376782
>he thinks income is based fairly on talent, skill, or work

[Anonymous No.11382441]

Because there is a higher demand for them.

How dumb are you? You sound like an entitled piece of shit just like most engineers do.

[Anonymous No.11383250]

>>11376857
this is medicine nowadays. doctors are dumb and allwayy do the wrong thing as a treatment.

[Anonymous No.11383255]

>>11376782
Anyone who uses the word "glorified" is full of shit. No exceptions.

[Anonymous No.11383285]

because they have the power to prescribe medications and the socialist government relies on them to be mini beureucrats

its the same reason a DMV or TSA employee gets paid better than someone working at walmart

[Anonymous No.11383295]

>>11378822
undergrad material in 3 weeks, gonna have to call bullshit on this anon.