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/tg/ - Traditional Games


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>> No.40333230

>>40333185
>cause every living person immense suffering
sounds pretty close to objectively evil to me

>> No.40333263

>>40333131

There is nothing the Yozi do without malice.

>> No.40333288

>>40333230
Well, the Yozis would be having a WONDERFUL time.

>> No.40333316

>>40333263
No, Hell *does* have precisely two things without malice and that is dancing and music.

>> No.40333341

>>40333263
I think Adorjan totally wants to help the people she kills. No malice there at all.

>> No.40333360

>>40333230
It's nowhere near close! Why is it evil to hurt people? Well, because we personally think so.

That's the thing about objective evil: it doesn't exist.

>> No.40333417

>>40333158
>>40333201
Hm. How essential is it to have a combat-related supernal in a game where you'll sometimes -- even if not often -- be fighting exalts all on your lonesome?

>> No.40333436

>>40333417
Not remotely essential because it's a one on one game and the ST will be catering the entire world to you. He's not going to go "haha this faggot picked MA, time to drop an E5 Dawn on him with 600xp"

>> No.40333447

>>40333077
>There really isn't a set of evocations identical to any MAs.
Evocations are expressly a "homebrew it yourself" thing, you could totally have an Evocation tree similar to a martial art.

>>40333080
>The difference is, Emerald Evocations are Terrestrial-tier Charms, and Sapphire Evocations are Celestial-tier Charms.
It doesn't say that anywhere, in fact, Relentless Killing Claws is a strict upgrade of a Solar Brawl charm, and is an essence 1 Emerald Evocation. Specifically "This Evocation functions exactly as Falling Hammer Strike (p. XX), save
that it may be used to enhance both Brawl and Martial Arts-based attacks.", same mote cost, too.

>>40333151
>Yes, and? You can't teach Evocations to your God-blooded and Dragon-blooded followers
They can buy Evocations, too. Your other points were tackled above.

>> No.40333470

>>40333447
If your ST lets you rip off an MA with a set of Evocations, your ST is silly, but hey, have fun with it.

>> No.40333503

>>40333470
The book literally has evocations that are copies of Solar charms, and I wasn't even advocating direct copying.

>> No.40333527

>>40333436
Excellent point.

Okay. Thank you all for your input!

Glad to know that Martial Arts isn't lousy, but simply occupies an appropriately-nuanced place in the game.

>> No.40333570

Will Sidereal Martial arts ever be both appropriate for Solaroid level combat while also being not broken? Because it's either a bunch of bells and whistles that don't do much except win-more, or utterly broken.

>> No.40333614

>>40333570
I honestly doubt Sidereal Martial Arts are even going to be a thing in this edition. They're probably just going to add a Sidereal tag on top of the Mastery and Celestial tags.

>> No.40333618

>>40333503
It has copies of minor Solar Charms in appropriate places, there's no set of Evocations that's like a tiny Solar tree or anything.

>> No.40333664

>>40333614

Ewww. Martial Arts are 90% of what makes Sidereals imo.

>> No.40333698

>>40333570

SMA styles are only going to cap out at Ess 5, so you won't have styles that start at Ess 7 again.

>>40333614

Devs say that they will be. They've stated that they'd like to see Prismatic Arrangment of Creation and Borders of Kaleidoscopic Logic making a return.

>> No.40333713

>>40333614
SMA is mentioned in three places. It comes up twice in Chapter One and the text for Selfsame Master Instructor says "The Lawgiver may not teach Sidereal Martial Arts."

>> No.40333721

>>40333664
I disagree, but even if I didn't, 90% of PC Sidereals were WAY too low-essence to access SMAs anyway. With how they've removed the TMA/CMA distinction in favor of the Celestial and Mastery keywords, it makes far more sense to just give Sidereals their own keyword and let them just use martial arts the best.

>> No.40333767

SMA is apparently going to be a thing distinct from other supernatural martial arts. Do you suppose they'll have a tag like "Mastery" that makes their charms better for Sidereals than Solaroids?

>> No.40333778

>>40333618
>It has copies of minor Solar Charms in appropriate places, there's no set of Evocations that's like a tiny Solar tree or anything.
That was a rebuttal to "Emerald Evocations are Terrestrial-tier charms", and thoroughly proved that wrong. And I never said to straight up copy charm trees, just that you can get something similar to your martial art of choice just by buying Evocations, and skipping the Merit cost, and your charms are more personalized AND can be used with native charms as well.

>> No.40333810

>>40333767

In 2e the Sidereals had Sutra that reduced the cost of the charms. That'll likely make a return.

>> No.40333823

>>40333767
>Do you suppose they'll have a tag like "Mastery" that makes their charms better for Sidereals than Solaroids?
I don't see why they would. Based on the Martial Arts chapter, Sidereals only get the equivalent to Mastery if they jump through some hoops that Solars don't have to bother with. They probably have to use prayer strips, where Solars can just do it automatically.

So no, I don't think that Sidereals will actually be any better at using SMAs than Solars are. I think the only distinction will be that they can teach them, while Solars can only learn.

>> No.40333926

>>40333778
I didn't say anything about Emerald Evocations being like Terrestrial Charms. What I said is that no ST should let you design some evocations that just copy an MA.

>> No.40333991

>>40333926
>I didn't say anything about Emerald Evocations being like Terrestrial Charms.
I didn't say you did. I said your quote was a rebuttal of someone else saying that. And again, I specifically did NOT say just get copies of MA charms.

>> No.40334019

>>40333991
When I say "Evocations don't do what MAs do" and you reply "you could make evocations similar to an MA", it is a perfectly reasonable conclusion that you're gunning to copy MA Charms. That's literally the only interpretation that makes sense in that context.

>> No.40334065

>>40334019
>it is a perfectly reasonable conclusion that you're gunning to copy MA Charms.
It would be, if I didn't say, and I quote, "similar to" and later "I wasn't even advocating direct copying."

>> No.40334110

>>40334065
If it's insufficiently similar to then as a response it makes no sense to say it when I say "but evocations don't do what MAs do".

Either it's close enough to be a copy or it's a pointless retort.

>> No.40334168

>>40334110
Listen, if I want to have charms that help me talk my way out of combat, there are more ways to do that than just Crane style covers, and if I want to wield two swords, there are more ways to handle that than the mechanics of Steel Devil style. That's what I mean.

>> No.40334219

>>40334168
What?

>> No.40334275

>>40334219
What do you mean, what? Are trying to say that there is no other mechanical way to handle wielding two swords other than Steel Devil style? Because if there is, then you totally CAN do what MAs do without straight up copying printed charms.

>> No.40334325

>>40334275
Do you think that Crane Style is about talking your way out of combat? ...have you actually read the martial arts?

>> No.40334344

>>40334325
>Crane style is a defensive style, emulating the grace of the crane in avoiding the blows of an
enemy. Its student learns not just to fight with physical blows, but to empathize with her enemy,
speaking or debating with him in an attempt to bring the fight to an end without violence.

Have you?

>> No.40334359

>>40334344
So no, you haven't then, just the introductory fluff instead of any of the charms.

>> No.40334408

>>40334359
Ok, I guess there is no point to speaking to you, then, if the "point" of a martial art is the exact wording of the charm's mechanical effects, then yes, you can't base another charm off of that without copying from the charm mechanically. But that is NOT what I'm talking about.

>> No.40334484

>>40334408
The fuck? I'm not even the guy you've been talking to. I didn't jump into the conversation until I saw you say something stupid about Crane Style involving talking.

>> No.40334568

>>40334408
>>40334484

Yeah I stopped talking. You say you didn't mean to use Evocations to copy MAs, okay. Go wild then.

>> No.40334646

>>40334484
Alright, then you'll have to forgive me for mistaking you for the guy I was talking to seconds before you, and who stopped posting exactly when you started. But, there are mulltiple charms that requre speaking

ex "as long as the stunt is based on verbally analyzing the enemy’s fighting style or the conflict as a whole in the style of an illustrative lesson or parable."

in the Martial Art. So yes, it involves talking.

>> No.40334767

>>40334568
And, to further explain my point, you could easily have charms that let you make actual social attacks as counterattacks in my theoretical Crane style descended Evocation tree, which would take the styles fluff themes exactly on point while being a variation on it's mechanics.

>> No.40334813

Has anyone in this thread found a 3e group through 4chan?

>> No.40335504

I'm sure this has come up before, but I've never seen it. What are the must-have starting charms in third edition, if any?

>> No.40335532

>>40335504
The Essence 1, zero-prerequisite charms in whichever things you want to do.

>> No.40336098

>>40318954
>any collection of more than 1 mook
No, im pretty sure the minimum is about 10

>> No.40336378

Are there any non-excel based 3e sheets yet?

Or I am hoping too much?

>> No.40336581

>>40336378

I made one of my own that I can loan out, if you'd like. Make a new thread for it though, not gonna leave it buried in a dead one.

>> No.40336630

>>40336581
This may be too much to ask, but I don't suppose it's a fillable PDF is it?

>> No.40336718

>>40336630

Nope. PDFs have the issue of being noneditable. Since I homebrew heavily, I prefer sheets that can hold all the materials in use. It is however complete with limit, BP/XP allocations, special markings for Supernal/Favored/Caste, and anything else you might want though.

>> No.40336839

>>40336718
Hm. I play online alot, so I need something I can fill in and send to the GM.

I hope MrGone does a 3e sheet soon or something.

>> No.40337000

>>40336839

Couldn't you just pass them a link? It's a googledoc.

>> No.40337207

>>40337000

>>40337192

New thread here.

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