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37897062 No.37897062 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

What can kill a primarch? On table-top. (you may speculate fluff-wise, but what can break a plot-armor?) be it a vehicle, monstrous creature, gargantuan creature, named character, smashfucker, 40k, 30k, apoc?
Lets leave squads out, since one can kill anything by drowning it in numbers...

>> No.37897083

stormwolf

>> No.37897092
File: 103 KB, 545x298, Death_Beam.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
37897092

>>37897062
C'tan Shard's Time Arrow.

>> No.37897127

160 man IG blob

>> No.37897132

They're hard to kill but not impossible.

Primarchs are, basically, T6 or T7 infantry types with a 2+ armor save (usually) and anywhere between 3++ and 5++ invul. They have Eternal Warrior so instant death is no good. Poison only wounds them on 6+.

So nothing just whacks them. You take them down by pouring on heavy AP2 stuff and hoping they don't get lucky on invuls.

This is balanced, more or less, by them costing a ton. In fact, in competitive play, it's pretty common for them to eat a lot of incoming fire and die... they are slightly less points-efficient than a squad of hammernators in that respect.

>> No.37897147

An Imperial knight.

>> No.37897264

>>37897147
>implying any of the Hammer Brothers can't beat a Knight to death in CC

I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure Perturabo, Vulkan, and Ferrus could all tear a Warhound apart. Your Imperial Knight is a snack cake.

>> No.37897288
File: 591 KB, 900x850, 1418066577096.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
37897288

>>37897062
This is actually relevant to my interests, because there's an idea that's been floating around my mind lately that involves killing a primarch.

But fluff wise? I think it would kind of depend upon the primarch. If you went toe to toe with people like leman russ or angron, you'd get rekt pretty quickly. According to the books, Angron was able to not only hold off a warhound titan, but also able to survive plasma blasts to the face (figuratively speaking) and tunneling through bedrock in the same fight. The same can also be said of Psyker attacks. IIRC, Lorgar, in the same fight, had also taken a direct plasma blast and was able to regenerate himself from just bones. We're talking wolverine levels of regeneration abilities, with just his MIND.

So, if I was going up against a primarch and doing it on my own without any help, I'd probably do it with a sniper rifle that was a tank-buster and be miles away when I do it. I'd also want to have it laced with a type of pathogen that could kill an entire planet with one drop. Because I doubt a total headshot would kill one. That, and I'd want to have at least two powerful relics on me if they still somehow survived and it went to melee fighting.

>> No.37897327

>>37897288
In Angel Exterminatus, Sharrowkyn of the Raven Guard shot Fulgrim in the head from 1500 meters out with a needle rifle and the fucker didn't die. You'd probably have to have the Life-Eater virus on your round to have a hope of making sure the guy stayed dead.

>> No.37897339

>>37897327
That was actually where I got the idea of taking out a primarch with a sniper rifle. Because going head to head with one is a death sentence.

>> No.37897676

>>37897062
With time not being an issue, the best choice is probably a flier.
Because the finest warriors in the universe generally aren't packing much in the way of AA

>> No.37898326

That anathema blade almost killed Horus, but it's hard to say would it have killed him all the way without help of the chaos gods/shamans in Davin.

>> No.37898365

>>37897092
What is that like?
How about Tesseract labyrinth for a given value of death? Or has it been taken out?

>> No.37898505

Kill them in space

>> No.37898670

>>37898505
Roboute Guilliman survived in outer space without helmet for *I think* about 2 hours.

Rather uncertain way of wanting to finish oft a primarch.

>> No.37898676

>>37898365
It's Gone.
Time's Arrow is now a Strength D Assault 1 shot

>> No.37898694

>>37898676
So they nerfed mind scarabs and took out labyrinth...

>> No.37898717

>>37898676
Is str D enough to finish off primarch in one shot?

>> No.37898766

>>37898717
If it rolls 6, which is D6+6 wounds

>> No.37898846

>>37898670

And Curze was running around on the hull of the Invincible Reason for a bit before breaching back in. Either Imperial ships have a micro-atmosphere or Primarchs are even more void-resistant than regular Astartes.

>> No.37898869

>>37898694
The new codex seems strong, so I'm trying not to complain, but all the fun stuff like the Labyrinth or the Tesla Destructor's Arc rule is gone.

>> No.37898910

>>37897339
Unless you're already dead.

>Bjorn_to_feel.jpg

>> No.37899041

>>37898766
However, if it rolls 2-5, all the Primarch needs is to make 1 invuln save to protect himself from damage.

Anyways, I managed to defeat Fulgrim in 3 rounds of combat with a Crimson Slaughter Chaos Biker Lord that had LC/PF, Slaughter's Horns, Daemonheart, Sigil of Corruption, and was stuck in a Slaaneshi-biker deathstar with the Icon of Excess. In total, he had a 2+/4++/FnP/IWND/Rage and Furious Charge on a T5 body.

Ironically I was using the CSM that I painted up to be Emperor's Children at the time.

>> No.37899161

>>37897264
stomp attacks. if they don't kill it in a single round there's a very real chance to be removed from play. stomp is as scary if not more scary than a D slapper these days

>> No.37899188
File: 512 KB, 755x612, Eternally feeling.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
37899188

>>37898910

>> No.37899198

>>37899188
>tfw my battle-brothers didn't let me die

>> No.37899925

>>37899188
That loadout makes no sense

>> No.37900103

>>37899925
That's world eaters for you

>> No.37900121

6 Leman russ punishers... I dare you to roll off all those dice.

>> No.37900177

>>37900121
>120 shots
>a lot
>laughing_infantry_platoon.jpg

>> No.37900195

>>37900121
I bet you think the punisher is good too.

>> No.37900223

A squad of dakkafexes, perhaps?

Bringing 3 with TL devourers, that's 36 Str6 TL shots per turn. They wound on a 4-5 and they don't pen armour, but they can at least reliably force saves, and when it comes to close combat they're still Str9 Ap2 with 3 attacks base.

>> No.37900308

>>37897327
It does say in the book, though, that had he been even a few centimeters to the right or left, it would have killed him instantly. Fulgrim survived as much through luck as he did his incredible durability.

>> No.37900373

>>37900177
Also
>laughing green tide

>> No.37900411
File: 153 KB, 290x300, 1423248359266.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
37900411

>>37897062
Their point cost in Flayed ones, the best melee unit in the game

>> No.37900431

>>37900411
I was gonna say that, but OP did kinda say no squads (and that would be a massive ass squad of flayed ones). Not that anyone listened.

I totally agree though.

>> No.37900451

>>37900103

>World eaters

Tyrant's legion master race

>> No.37900465

Fluff-wise? The easiest way is probably nuclear bombardment. Given the amount of bullshit protective mechanisms available, you'll almost certainly need more than one, but the basic plan of 'drop atomic bombs on them until they're dead' is sound.

Sniper rifles are for people who care about collateral damage, which we don't.

>> No.37900474

>>37900411
Stop forcing this.

>> No.37900725

>>37900465
But they usually have teleport transponders, don't they?

>> No.37900763

>>37900474
You can't make me, and besides its a true fact

>> No.37901207

Park a Fellglaive across the table and whack it away.

>> No.37901277

>>37899925
you do realize that the need to punch shit, and also shoot shit presents itself in the fiction and that the point of dreads is literally the fact they can do both.

>> No.37901318

>>37900465
Or just a lance battery. Likely easier and cheaper.
>>37897062
Asuraman and a bunch of DA exarch could wail on them with Direswords.
>tfw taking a phoenix lord doesn't allow you to upgrade all members of a corresponding aspect squad to be exarchs.
It'd be a thing of beauty.

>> No.37901378

>>37900763
they are the best point cost to melle unit now but they will

never

ever

get into combat without half or more of them being dead. And then another one or two dying because any chucklefuck will hit first.

And your attacks are not going to do shit to marines really

I frequently charge 10 man marine squads with 10x4 str 6 shred hits AT INITIATIVE and most of the time 1/3 of the squad lives. You will need 20 flayed ones to equal that shit, and some aren't going to be able to hit because of your blob being to big. And some are going to die before they get there, and some are going to get killed before they hit.

>> No.37901401

>>37900411
only like 15 flayed ones could hit each turn, do they have fearless? because they gonna run.

>> No.37901417

In game?

Grav Centurion squad with Tiggy (for the re-roll to hit Warlord trait).

>> No.37901484

vortex grenade in fluff

>> No.37901542

>>37897288
Actually, Lorgar wasn't reduced to bones - he simply had the worst case of third-degree burns a person can possibly have, and his healing was more to do with warp incantations than any intrinsic healing factor.

>> No.37901549

>>37901484
That shit can't even kill captains.

>> No.37901684
File: 11 KB, 297x275, cute.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
37901684

>>37901549
>comparing tabletop to fluff when the post specifically says "in fluff"

>> No.37901704

>>37901684
>when OP specifically says "In tabletop"

Cancerous fluff fags, everyone. Take your BL filth elsewhere.

>> No.37901773

>>37901704
>(you may speculate fluff-wise, but what can break a plot-armor?)

anon pls
>>37901484
anything that opens a hole to the warp really

>> No.37901870

>>37901704
If the posts are the hypothesis and the solution offered by the responding post is the conclusion, then a statement can be evaluated through logical implications.
As the hypothesis states that it should be on tabletop, and the post discusses fluff, then the statement requiring tabletop has become false.
As the hypothesis is false, then logically, any implication is true as the hypothesis has failed. It no longer matters what the conclusion is.

>> No.37902018

>>37901277
Not what I meant.
I'd prefer a Kherea or something shorter ranged so I'm not wasting the range on the storm bolter

>> No.37902046

>>37900195
But "muh Pask-sama"

>> No.37902099

>>37901684
>implying I was
>implying Sicarius didn't detonate a vortex grenade over his head and was fucking fine

>> No.37902147

>>37902046
>shitposting instead of making a counter-argument
Don't claim something conventionally bad is good unless you have an actual argument to back it up.

>> No.37902394

>>37902147
Not him but the Pask Punisher is utterly broken. The Punisher is shit though.

>> No.37902747

A knight lancer does well.

Really, any S:D weapon has that 1/6 chance of instantly removing them.

Then, i will mathhammer any primarch of choice against any other unit/gun of choice.

Be forewarned, lorgar is the squishiest against ranged ap 2 shooting, and he still takes 18 lascannon shots to go down in a phase.

Vulkan takes 162.

>>37900411
name your primarch, and I'll run that math.

If you choose angron, define how rage-d he is. (0-10)

>> No.37903623

>>37902147
Pask was my counterargument.
U mad?

>> No.37904023

>>37902747
vulcan and ferrus seem too difficult to take down with shooting, but a big enough mob of close combat should do them in, even with vulcan's small blast dude-remover. I think perty is always gonna run with tyrant backup (since that's his whole schtick) so you'll have a lot of look out sirs to deal with once you get him low enough to stop tanking shots and the firepower of the tyrants makes it rather discouraging to stay in line of sight with them (10-20 frag/krak missiles can ruin anything's day)

>> No.37904064

>>37902747
oh, didn't see your offer. curious to see what would happen if a fully raged angron charged a green tide. assume very few can get overwatch based on charge angle or something?

>> No.37904684

>>37904064
well, that green tide's overwatch is goinf to do fuckall.

Angron has 19 swings on the charge (17 normally) and hatred causing ID.

So a squad of how many boyz?

>> No.37904762

>>37904684
30?
Or 100?

>> No.37904828

>>37899161
I don't know how relevant this is (since i'm more of a fluff person), but primarchs have been known to survive stompings. Angron survived being stepped on by a fucking warhound titan.

>> No.37904861

>>37904684
green tide is usually 100, but there's no way he'd actually get to +10 against an army like that since that's the only unit to go for. so, I guess 29 boys plus a boss with a PK

>> No.37905050

>>37901773
this would be true fluff-wise if Curze hadn't literally surfed through the warp while buttfucking some daemon until the warp was like "all these edges, they cut us!" and spat that shit back out.
Not even the warp wants that kinda crazy.

>> No.37905254

>>37898766
>>37899041
Destroyer is shit. It should just be that you roll 2D6 and multiply them together and the target takes that many wounds.

>> No.37905340

>>37901378
>implying its easy to make kill a t4 4+ 4+++

they can infiltrate. So if you want them dead before you get hit by them you basically have to shoot them with your entire army.

>> No.37905382

>>37905254
>blanket IG blob with a 10" blast
>cause about 7 wounds

>> No.37905487

>>37904861
Angron charges, challenges the nob. Assume the nob accepts due to reasons.

so he goe first, 19 swings, 16.8888 hits, 14.074 wounds, 1 caused ID.

Then, after the overflow, there are 16 boyz left.

assuming choppa/slugga-

48 swings, 16 hits, 2.6666 wounds, 0.88888 through armor, 0.7407 through FNP, and IWND triggers (since angron charged this turn)

to 0.407.

The boyz then make a mob rule test, and i'll assume they auto-pass it or something.

angron swings 18 times now, 15 hits, 12.5 dead boyz, this fight is basically over.

The overwatch of 31 shots from this unit did 0.239 wounds.

Next close combat fight?

>> No.37905618

>>37905382
I thought it was a roll on the D-table for each model under the marker? Not one roll per squad...
Besides I understood that primarchs have 6 wounds so they need two rolls of 2-5, since it's D3 wounds.

>> No.37905666

>>37905487
Perturabo vs 10 hammernators TH/SS? Within and without forgebreaker.

Lol iron within iron without

>> No.37905776

>>37905382
What? You think a 10" Blast only covers 7 models? Or that if you only get 7 models under the template then 7 wounds isn't fair?

>> No.37905837

>>37905618
You have it right, that guy is being ridiculous. What would even be the point of having a blast D weapon?

>> No.37905910

>>37905776
Anon said you should just roll 2D6 and the target takes that many wounds. Not that each model takes that many wounds. 2D6 averages around 7.

>> No.37906117

>>37901542
That's what I meant. It's been a while since I read that book. But I think all the primarchs have a pretty badass healing factor too unless I'm mistaken.

>> No.37906141

>>37905910
How could you possibly think that's what I meant? Why would anyone suggest such a stupid ruling as a means advertised to combat weakness with D weapons? Do you always assume the stupidest possible meaning of people's sentences?

Also
>just roll 2D6 and the target takes that many wounds
Read the post again and see where you went wrong.

>> No.37906142

>>37905666

Fighting what?

>> No.37906230

>>37906141
So how is D6 x D6 a better solution? It still makes blast D weapons useless and boosts non-blast versions even more. Unless you want to explain what you meant by "target", since that can be anything from a lone model to a unit.

>> No.37906770

>>37904684
>Angron has 19 swings on the charge (17 normally)

Nonsense. Read the rules sometimes, Angron's max number of attacks can never exceed 10.

All these Angron players and half-assed mathhammers giving a fully-charged Angron over a dozen attacks...

>> No.37906963

>>37906230
I am not spoonfeeding you what I have already explained twice. Be smarter.

>> No.37907080

>>37906142
What? Perturabo fighting 10 TH/SS terminators from C:SM

>> No.37907123

>>37906230
You roll for every single model under the blast marker.
git gud scrub

>> No.37907151

>>37906963
I'm sorry I'm not a fucking mind reader, all I have going is what you have typed, and what you have types is:
>"you roll 2D6 and multiply them together and the target takes that many wounds"

>> No.37907175

Could a double 6 SAG shot still do it? I dont know about the current codex but in the last one I played any non-vehicle hit by a 6,6 result is just removed from the table wtihout any kind of save whatsoever.

>> No.37907209

>>37907123
Well anon didn't say that, now did he? He said "target" not "every model hit". 50 guardsman can be a target just as well as an MC or a character running around on its own.

It's not my fault if he doesn't know how the rules work.


Also, enjoy rolling D6 x D6 for every model under a 10" blast template.

>> No.37907574

>>37905618
Rekt>>37907209

>> No.37907629

>>37907209
It's also not d6xd6. It's just 1d6, however IF you roll a six, you roll again. This is unnecessary with a guard model as they only have one wound anyways. The original question was in relation to guard blobs.

Tl;dr git gud

>> No.37907716

>>37907629
So "you roll 2D6 and multiply them together" = "It's just 1d6, however IF you roll a six, you roll again."

Like I said, I'm no mind reader, I'm just working on what was said.

>This is unnecessary with a guard model as they only have one wound anyways

HW teams, ogryns, officers, etc. have multiple wounds. Since Str. D doesn't have a strength to it nor cause ID automatically (which would make causing multiple wounds a bit redundant most of the time), you need to roll for those models.

>> No.37907876

>>37907716
Actually Strength D is treated as S10 AP2.

You don't need to read minds, just read the rule book.

>> No.37907901

>>37907876
*S10 AP2/1 sorry

>> No.37908004

>>37907876
>You don't need to read minds, just read the rule book.

Don't think "you roll 2D6 and multiply them together" nor "It's just 1d6, however IF you roll a six, you roll again" are in the rulebook.

>> No.37908274

>>37899925
It does from a fluff standpoint.

>> No.37908276

>>37899041

>Beating Fulgrim in Combat

He didn't take Fireblade did he? It's so much better than the Blade of the Laer it's not even funny.

>> No.37908735

>>37897062
Vindicare Assasin?
Don't know the stats of primachs, but a vindi can probably outshoot them big time

>> No.37908832

>>37897062
Chapter master Smashbane and Chapter Master Smashfucker teamed up can beat anyone short of the Emperor himself.

>> No.37908874
File: 136 KB, 497x500, feel.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
37908874

>>37899188

>> No.37908916

>>37902747
>f you choose angron, define how rage-d he is. (0-10)
Fully raged Angron vs a unit of 7,000 vampire skeleton warriors, 10 wide, musician, standard of discipline, and spears.
If he wins his prize is the gooey necromancer behind them.

>> No.37909219

>>37908832
Ferrus is better than both.

>> No.37909385

>>37909219
but can he beat both at the same time?

>> No.37909520

>>37908832
It's Chaptermaster Smashbane and IRONFATHER Smashfucker.

Fuck you, heathen

>> No.37909592

>>37907151
Except for all the other stuff I typed since then.

>> No.37909636

>>37907209
You have autism and cannot take messages in any context other than 100% literal. Also, you can enjoy rolling unnecessary dice for guardsmen, the rest of us will just remove single-wound models and do the roll for characters and monsters.

>>37907209
>>37907574
I have never seen a sadder case of samefag in my life.

>> No.37909696

>>37909592
All the ranting how people don't understand what you're trying to say?

>> No.37909747

>>37909636
>you have autism because you cannot mind read that anon meant a whole different thing from what he types

>> No.37909951

>>37909696
>>37909747
No really, I did not know retards could figure out how to post on /tg/. You take the most obtuse, contextually fucked misunderstanding of the original point possible, it gets spelt out to you several times, and you proceed to just ignore it? Have I hurt your pride or something? Go back and reread the entire conversation, then come back here and tell me that you're sorry.

>> No.37910338

>>37909951
Ok, lets have a look...

>>37898676
>Str. D mentioned
>>37898717
>Will it be enough to kill a Primach?
>>37898766
>Roll 6, cause D6+6 wounds
>>37899041
>Any other result lets the Primarch live.
>>37905254
>Destroyer is shit. It should just be that you roll 2D6 and multiply them together and the target takes that many wounds.

Did I miss something, because that's all I could find related to this conversation before anon's post. After that it's either "go read it again", "context, retard" or just claiming he meant a whole different from what he actually did.

Where is this "context" that makes that post make perfect sense, especially when anon himself has gone back on it by claiming he meant that it should be D6 wounds all the time and on a 6 you get another D6 (>>37907629), which most certaily isn't same as "roll 2D6 and multiply them together".

What exactly did I miss here?

>> No.37910696

>>37910338
You literally picked four comments that occured completely before the thing we were talking about, and then quoting the one very first I've made, the one post you have already banged on about at length without referring to ANYTHING that came afterwards. Conglaturion anon, you fail at instructions, at parsing context, at following conversation and generally at life.

>> No.37910870

>>37910696
Hey, I'm not the one who claimed that post contained all the needed info to unravel its mysteries. When ever I asked you to explain what you mean, you just went "go back and read the post." You yourself banged on and on about how it made perfect sense and how I just wasn't getting what you were saying.

Fuck, man, if it made perfect sense, why did you then go back on it in >>37907629 and completely change everything about the post.

I'm sure you have a great idea of what you mean, but you suck hard at trying to convey it, and then shit on others for not getting your point.

>> No.37911004

>>37910870
Except that I didn't. You have the reading comprehension of a dog. That post you link to isn't even me; yet again you are incapable of following a dialogue.

I flattered that you seem to think that I am telepathic, but the truth is the rest of the population doesn't need magic powers to do any of the things I'm too sick of typing out to repeat. Now go and try again.

>> No.37911199

>>37911004
Funny how you claim not to be telepathic, but expect me to know what of all the shitposts are yours. I'd ask you to present your case, but I know you'll just shitpost some more because that's all you can do.

>> No.37911618

>>37911199
Having presented my case to all the extent any sapient, rational human would require, with extensive and generous points of direction and countless other points and I clues, I must ask, do I really care? Someone so stupid they think any form of criticism, or any response short of spoonfeeding the obvious conclusion, is "shitposting" - is it worth helping this individual? Why don't you take a stab at the correct answer to this teaser.

>> No.37911776

>>37911618
Oh really?

>>37905776
>you think 10" blast only covers 7 models?
>>37905910
>no, just wondering about the 2D6 wounds per target thing
>>37906141
>read >>37905254 again, idiot
>>37906230
>so did you mean D6 times D6 then?

Path 1:
>>37906963
>not gonna explain it to you, be smarter
>>37907151
>not a mind reader
>>37909592
>you're ignoring everything I've typed since then
>>37909696
>like how people don't understand you?

Path 2:
>>37907123
>you roll for every model under blast, git gud
>>37907209
>that was never said in >>37905254
>>37909636
>muh context! (which, apparently is separate from all of these posts and >>37910338 all of those)
>>37909747
>so I'm autist because I can't read your mind to figure out what you mean?

Paths conjoin:
>>37909951
>retards, context, misunderstanding the point, gets spelt out several times, ignoring it

So, along this string of posts, where was your actual point that explains everything, because apart from "git gud", "learn to context" and "read the post again", you're not explaining very much, despite always claiming you have done so several times and I'm just not getting it.

>> No.37911843

>>37911776
Highlighting ALL of the posts in the thread. Anon, I am actually starting to enjoy this. Where will Autismo's wild ride lead me next?

Honestly, it's just insane that you don't understand . . . any of this, really.

>> No.37911920

>>37911843
No, I understand, I'm just interested on seeing how far you're going to play this charade and shitpost while accusing others of being retards and not getting you like a whiny emo kid throwing a tantrum at their parents.

>> No.37911950

jesus christ both of you just shut the fuck up

>> No.37911996

>>37911950
It's been about 5 people that just left because of beard-kun.

>> No.37912078

>>37911920
You plainly understand jack shit. The fact that you think any of the threads you highlighted went anything like your greentext summaries of them is enough mong to actually change half the numbers in existence to potato. It's staggering how much I would actually have to explain at this juncture to rectifiy the problem that I had thought was so tiny originally. It's been a laugh anon, but I'm probably going to bed soon. >>37911950 can get his wish. Shine on, you crazy star.

>> No.37912730

>>37912078
Yeah yeah, it's all too deep for me, we get it.

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