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37897062 No.37897062 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

What can kill a primarch? On table-top. (you may speculate fluff-wise, but what can break a plot-armor?) be it a vehicle, monstrous creature, gargantuan creature, named character, smashfucker, 40k, 30k, apoc?
Lets leave squads out, since one can kill anything by drowning it in numbers...

>> No.37897083


>> No.37897092
File: 103 KB, 545x298, Death_Beam.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

C'tan Shard's Time Arrow.

>> No.37897127

160 man IG blob

>> No.37897132

They're hard to kill but not impossible.

Primarchs are, basically, T6 or T7 infantry types with a 2+ armor save (usually) and anywhere between 3++ and 5++ invul. They have Eternal Warrior so instant death is no good. Poison only wounds them on 6+.

So nothing just whacks them. You take them down by pouring on heavy AP2 stuff and hoping they don't get lucky on invuls.

This is balanced, more or less, by them costing a ton. In fact, in competitive play, it's pretty common for them to eat a lot of incoming fire and die... they are slightly less points-efficient than a squad of hammernators in that respect.

>> No.37897147

An Imperial knight.

>> No.37897264

>implying any of the Hammer Brothers can't beat a Knight to death in CC

I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure Perturabo, Vulkan, and Ferrus could all tear a Warhound apart. Your Imperial Knight is a snack cake.

>> No.37897288
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This is actually relevant to my interests, because there's an idea that's been floating around my mind lately that involves killing a primarch.

But fluff wise? I think it would kind of depend upon the primarch. If you went toe to toe with people like leman russ or angron, you'd get rekt pretty quickly. According to the books, Angron was able to not only hold off a warhound titan, but also able to survive plasma blasts to the face (figuratively speaking) and tunneling through bedrock in the same fight. The same can also be said of Psyker attacks. IIRC, Lorgar, in the same fight, had also taken a direct plasma blast and was able to regenerate himself from just bones. We're talking wolverine levels of regeneration abilities, with just his MIND.

So, if I was going up against a primarch and doing it on my own without any help, I'd probably do it with a sniper rifle that was a tank-buster and be miles away when I do it. I'd also want to have it laced with a type of pathogen that could kill an entire planet with one drop. Because I doubt a total headshot would kill one. That, and I'd want to have at least two powerful relics on me if they still somehow survived and it went to melee fighting.

>> No.37897327

In Angel Exterminatus, Sharrowkyn of the Raven Guard shot Fulgrim in the head from 1500 meters out with a needle rifle and the fucker didn't die. You'd probably have to have the Life-Eater virus on your round to have a hope of making sure the guy stayed dead.

>> No.37897339

That was actually where I got the idea of taking out a primarch with a sniper rifle. Because going head to head with one is a death sentence.

>> No.37897676

With time not being an issue, the best choice is probably a flier.
Because the finest warriors in the universe generally aren't packing much in the way of AA

>> No.37898326

That anathema blade almost killed Horus, but it's hard to say would it have killed him all the way without help of the chaos gods/shamans in Davin.

>> No.37898365

What is that like?
How about Tesseract labyrinth for a given value of death? Or has it been taken out?

>> No.37898505

Kill them in space

>> No.37898670

Roboute Guilliman survived in outer space without helmet for *I think* about 2 hours.

Rather uncertain way of wanting to finish oft a primarch.

>> No.37898676

It's Gone.
Time's Arrow is now a Strength D Assault 1 shot

>> No.37898694

So they nerfed mind scarabs and took out labyrinth...

>> No.37898717

Is str D enough to finish off primarch in one shot?

>> No.37898766

If it rolls 6, which is D6+6 wounds

>> No.37898846


And Curze was running around on the hull of the Invincible Reason for a bit before breaching back in. Either Imperial ships have a micro-atmosphere or Primarchs are even more void-resistant than regular Astartes.

>> No.37898869

The new codex seems strong, so I'm trying not to complain, but all the fun stuff like the Labyrinth or the Tesla Destructor's Arc rule is gone.

>> No.37898910

Unless you're already dead.


>> No.37899041

However, if it rolls 2-5, all the Primarch needs is to make 1 invuln save to protect himself from damage.

Anyways, I managed to defeat Fulgrim in 3 rounds of combat with a Crimson Slaughter Chaos Biker Lord that had LC/PF, Slaughter's Horns, Daemonheart, Sigil of Corruption, and was stuck in a Slaaneshi-biker deathstar with the Icon of Excess. In total, he had a 2+/4++/FnP/IWND/Rage and Furious Charge on a T5 body.

Ironically I was using the CSM that I painted up to be Emperor's Children at the time.

>> No.37899161

stomp attacks. if they don't kill it in a single round there's a very real chance to be removed from play. stomp is as scary if not more scary than a D slapper these days

>> No.37899188
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>> No.37899198

>tfw my battle-brothers didn't let me die

>> No.37899925

That loadout makes no sense

>> No.37900103

That's world eaters for you

>> No.37900121

6 Leman russ punishers... I dare you to roll off all those dice.

>> No.37900177

>120 shots
>a lot

>> No.37900195

I bet you think the punisher is good too.

>> No.37900223

A squad of dakkafexes, perhaps?

Bringing 3 with TL devourers, that's 36 Str6 TL shots per turn. They wound on a 4-5 and they don't pen armour, but they can at least reliably force saves, and when it comes to close combat they're still Str9 Ap2 with 3 attacks base.

>> No.37900308

It does say in the book, though, that had he been even a few centimeters to the right or left, it would have killed him instantly. Fulgrim survived as much through luck as he did his incredible durability.

>> No.37900373

>laughing green tide

>> No.37900411
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Their point cost in Flayed ones, the best melee unit in the game

>> No.37900431

I was gonna say that, but OP did kinda say no squads (and that would be a massive ass squad of flayed ones). Not that anyone listened.

I totally agree though.

>> No.37900451


>World eaters

Tyrant's legion master race

>> No.37900465

Fluff-wise? The easiest way is probably nuclear bombardment. Given the amount of bullshit protective mechanisms available, you'll almost certainly need more than one, but the basic plan of 'drop atomic bombs on them until they're dead' is sound.

Sniper rifles are for people who care about collateral damage, which we don't.

>> No.37900474

Stop forcing this.

>> No.37900725

But they usually have teleport transponders, don't they?

>> No.37900763

You can't make me, and besides its a true fact

>> No.37901207

Park a Fellglaive across the table and whack it away.

>> No.37901277

you do realize that the need to punch shit, and also shoot shit presents itself in the fiction and that the point of dreads is literally the fact they can do both.

>> No.37901318

Or just a lance battery. Likely easier and cheaper.
Asuraman and a bunch of DA exarch could wail on them with Direswords.
>tfw taking a phoenix lord doesn't allow you to upgrade all members of a corresponding aspect squad to be exarchs.
It'd be a thing of beauty.

>> No.37901378

they are the best point cost to melle unit now but they will



get into combat without half or more of them being dead. And then another one or two dying because any chucklefuck will hit first.

And your attacks are not going to do shit to marines really

I frequently charge 10 man marine squads with 10x4 str 6 shred hits AT INITIATIVE and most of the time 1/3 of the squad lives. You will need 20 flayed ones to equal that shit, and some aren't going to be able to hit because of your blob being to big. And some are going to die before they get there, and some are going to get killed before they hit.

>> No.37901401

only like 15 flayed ones could hit each turn, do they have fearless? because they gonna run.

>> No.37901417

In game?

Grav Centurion squad with Tiggy (for the re-roll to hit Warlord trait).

>> No.37901484

vortex grenade in fluff

>> No.37901542

Actually, Lorgar wasn't reduced to bones - he simply had the worst case of third-degree burns a person can possibly have, and his healing was more to do with warp incantations than any intrinsic healing factor.

>> No.37901549

That shit can't even kill captains.

>> No.37901684
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>comparing tabletop to fluff when the post specifically says "in fluff"

>> No.37901704

>when OP specifically says "In tabletop"

Cancerous fluff fags, everyone. Take your BL filth elsewhere.

>> No.37901773

>(you may speculate fluff-wise, but what can break a plot-armor?)

anon pls
anything that opens a hole to the warp really

>> No.37901870

If the posts are the hypothesis and the solution offered by the responding post is the conclusion, then a statement can be evaluated through logical implications.
As the hypothesis states that it should be on tabletop, and the post discusses fluff, then the statement requiring tabletop has become false.
As the hypothesis is false, then logically, any implication is true as the hypothesis has failed. It no longer matters what the conclusion is.

>> No.37902018

Not what I meant.
I'd prefer a Kherea or something shorter ranged so I'm not wasting the range on the storm bolter

>> No.37902046

But "muh Pask-sama"

>> No.37902099

>implying I was
>implying Sicarius didn't detonate a vortex grenade over his head and was fucking fine

>> No.37902147

>shitposting instead of making a counter-argument
Don't claim something conventionally bad is good unless you have an actual argument to back it up.

>> No.37902394

Not him but the Pask Punisher is utterly broken. The Punisher is shit though.

>> No.37902747

A knight lancer does well.

Really, any S:D weapon has that 1/6 chance of instantly removing them.

Then, i will mathhammer any primarch of choice against any other unit/gun of choice.

Be forewarned, lorgar is the squishiest against ranged ap 2 shooting, and he still takes 18 lascannon shots to go down in a phase.

Vulkan takes 162.

name your primarch, and I'll run that math.

If you choose angron, define how rage-d he is. (0-10)

>> No.37903623

Pask was my counterargument.
U mad?

>> No.37904023

vulcan and ferrus seem too difficult to take down with shooting, but a big enough mob of close combat should do them in, even with vulcan's small blast dude-remover. I think perty is always gonna run with tyrant backup (since that's his whole schtick) so you'll have a lot of look out sirs to deal with once you get him low enough to stop tanking shots and the firepower of the tyrants makes it rather discouraging to stay in line of sight with them (10-20 frag/krak missiles can ruin anything's day)

>> No.37904064

oh, didn't see your offer. curious to see what would happen if a fully raged angron charged a green tide. assume very few can get overwatch based on charge angle or something?

>> No.37904684

well, that green tide's overwatch is goinf to do fuckall.

Angron has 19 swings on the charge (17 normally) and hatred causing ID.

So a squad of how many boyz?

>> No.37904762

Or 100?

>> No.37904828

I don't know how relevant this is (since i'm more of a fluff person), but primarchs have been known to survive stompings. Angron survived being stepped on by a fucking warhound titan.

>> No.37904861

green tide is usually 100, but there's no way he'd actually get to +10 against an army like that since that's the only unit to go for. so, I guess 29 boys plus a boss with a PK

>> No.37905050

this would be true fluff-wise if Curze hadn't literally surfed through the warp while buttfucking some daemon until the warp was like "all these edges, they cut us!" and spat that shit back out.
Not even the warp wants that kinda crazy.

>> No.37905254

Destroyer is shit. It should just be that you roll 2D6 and multiply them together and the target takes that many wounds.

>> No.37905340

>implying its easy to make kill a t4 4+ 4+++

they can infiltrate. So if you want them dead before you get hit by them you basically have to shoot them with your entire army.

>> No.37905382

>blanket IG blob with a 10" blast
>cause about 7 wounds

>> No.37905487

Angron charges, challenges the nob. Assume the nob accepts due to reasons.

so he goe first, 19 swings, 16.8888 hits, 14.074 wounds, 1 caused ID.

Then, after the overflow, there are 16 boyz left.

assuming choppa/slugga-

48 swings, 16 hits, 2.6666 wounds, 0.88888 through armor, 0.7407 through FNP, and IWND triggers (since angron charged this turn)

to 0.407.

The boyz then make a mob rule test, and i'll assume they auto-pass it or something.

angron swings 18 times now, 15 hits, 12.5 dead boyz, this fight is basically over.

The overwatch of 31 shots from this unit did 0.239 wounds.

Next close combat fight?

>> No.37905618

I thought it was a roll on the D-table for each model under the marker? Not one roll per squad...
Besides I understood that primarchs have 6 wounds so they need two rolls of 2-5, since it's D3 wounds.

>> No.37905666

Perturabo vs 10 hammernators TH/SS? Within and without forgebreaker.

Lol iron within iron without

>> No.37905776

What? You think a 10" Blast only covers 7 models? Or that if you only get 7 models under the template then 7 wounds isn't fair?

>> No.37905837

You have it right, that guy is being ridiculous. What would even be the point of having a blast D weapon?

>> No.37905910

Anon said you should just roll 2D6 and the target takes that many wounds. Not that each model takes that many wounds. 2D6 averages around 7.

>> No.37906117

That's what I meant. It's been a while since I read that book. But I think all the primarchs have a pretty badass healing factor too unless I'm mistaken.

>> No.37906141

How could you possibly think that's what I meant? Why would anyone suggest such a stupid ruling as a means advertised to combat weakness with D weapons? Do you always assume the stupidest possible meaning of people's sentences?

>just roll 2D6 and the target takes that many wounds
Read the post again and see where you went wrong.

>> No.37906142


Fighting what?

>> No.37906230

So how is D6 x D6 a better solution? It still makes blast D weapons useless and boosts non-blast versions even more. Unless you want to explain what you meant by "target", since that can be anything from a lone model to a unit.

>> No.37906770

>Angron has 19 swings on the charge (17 normally)

Nonsense. Read the rules sometimes, Angron's max number of attacks can never exceed 10.

All these Angron players and half-assed mathhammers giving a fully-charged Angron over a dozen attacks...

>> No.37906963

I am not spoonfeeding you what I have already explained twice. Be smarter.

>> No.37907080

What? Perturabo fighting 10 TH/SS terminators from C:SM

>> No.37907123

You roll for every single model under the blast marker.
git gud scrub

>> No.37907151

I'm sorry I'm not a fucking mind reader, all I have going is what you have typed, and what you have types is:
>"you roll 2D6 and multiply them together and the target takes that many wounds"

>> No.37907175

Could a double 6 SAG shot still do it? I dont know about the current codex but in the last one I played any non-vehicle hit by a 6,6 result is just removed from the table wtihout any kind of save whatsoever.

>> No.37907209

Well anon didn't say that, now did he? He said "target" not "every model hit". 50 guardsman can be a target just as well as an MC or a character running around on its own.

It's not my fault if he doesn't know how the rules work.

Also, enjoy rolling D6 x D6 for every model under a 10" blast template.

>> No.37907574


>> No.37907629

It's also not d6xd6. It's just 1d6, however IF you roll a six, you roll again. This is unnecessary with a guard model as they only have one wound anyways. The original question was in relation to guard blobs.

Tl;dr git gud

>> No.37907716

So "you roll 2D6 and multiply them together" = "It's just 1d6, however IF you roll a six, you roll again."

Like I said, I'm no mind reader, I'm just working on what was said.

>This is unnecessary with a guard model as they only have one wound anyways

HW teams, ogryns, officers, etc. have multiple wounds. Since Str. D doesn't have a strength to it nor cause ID automatically (which would make causing multiple wounds a bit redundant most of the time), you need to roll for those models.

>> No.37907876

Actually Strength D is treated as S10 AP2.

You don't need to read minds, just read the rule book.

>> No.37907901

*S10 AP2/1 sorry

>> No.37908004

>You don't need to read minds, just read the rule book.

Don't think "you roll 2D6 and multiply them together" nor "It's just 1d6, however IF you roll a six, you roll again" are in the rulebook.

>> No.37908274

It does from a fluff standpoint.

>> No.37908276


>Beating Fulgrim in Combat

He didn't take Fireblade did he? It's so much better than the Blade of the Laer it's not even funny.

>> No.37908735

Vindicare Assasin?
Don't know the stats of primachs, but a vindi can probably outshoot them big time

>> No.37908832

Chapter master Smashbane and Chapter Master Smashfucker teamed up can beat anyone short of the Emperor himself.

>> No.37908874
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>> No.37908916

>f you choose angron, define how rage-d he is. (0-10)
Fully raged Angron vs a unit of 7,000 vampire skeleton warriors, 10 wide, musician, standard of discipline, and spears.
If he wins his prize is the gooey necromancer behind them.

>> No.37909219

Ferrus is better than both.

>> No.37909385

but can he beat both at the same time?

>> No.37909520

It's Chaptermaster Smashbane and IRONFATHER Smashfucker.

Fuck you, heathen

>> No.37909592

Except for all the other stuff I typed since then.

>> No.37909636

You have autism and cannot take messages in any context other than 100% literal. Also, you can enjoy rolling unnecessary dice for guardsmen, the rest of us will just remove single-wound models and do the roll for characters and monsters.

I have never seen a sadder case of samefag in my life.

>> No.37909696

All the ranting how people don't understand what you're trying to say?

>> No.37909747

>you have autism because you cannot mind read that anon meant a whole different thing from what he types

>> No.37909951

No really, I did not know retards could figure out how to post on /tg/. You take the most obtuse, contextually fucked misunderstanding of the original point possible, it gets spelt out to you several times, and you proceed to just ignore it? Have I hurt your pride or something? Go back and reread the entire conversation, then come back here and tell me that you're sorry.

>> No.37910338

Ok, lets have a look...

>Str. D mentioned
>Will it be enough to kill a Primach?
>Roll 6, cause D6+6 wounds
>Any other result lets the Primarch live.
>Destroyer is shit. It should just be that you roll 2D6 and multiply them together and the target takes that many wounds.

Did I miss something, because that's all I could find related to this conversation before anon's post. After that it's either "go read it again", "context, retard" or just claiming he meant a whole different from what he actually did.

Where is this "context" that makes that post make perfect sense, especially when anon himself has gone back on it by claiming he meant that it should be D6 wounds all the time and on a 6 you get another D6 (>>37907629), which most certaily isn't same as "roll 2D6 and multiply them together".

What exactly did I miss here?

>> No.37910696

You literally picked four comments that occured completely before the thing we were talking about, and then quoting the one very first I've made, the one post you have already banged on about at length without referring to ANYTHING that came afterwards. Conglaturion anon, you fail at instructions, at parsing context, at following conversation and generally at life.

>> No.37910870

Hey, I'm not the one who claimed that post contained all the needed info to unravel its mysteries. When ever I asked you to explain what you mean, you just went "go back and read the post." You yourself banged on and on about how it made perfect sense and how I just wasn't getting what you were saying.

Fuck, man, if it made perfect sense, why did you then go back on it in >>37907629 and completely change everything about the post.

I'm sure you have a great idea of what you mean, but you suck hard at trying to convey it, and then shit on others for not getting your point.

>> No.37911004

Except that I didn't. You have the reading comprehension of a dog. That post you link to isn't even me; yet again you are incapable of following a dialogue.

I flattered that you seem to think that I am telepathic, but the truth is the rest of the population doesn't need magic powers to do any of the things I'm too sick of typing out to repeat. Now go and try again.

>> No.37911199

Funny how you claim not to be telepathic, but expect me to know what of all the shitposts are yours. I'd ask you to present your case, but I know you'll just shitpost some more because that's all you can do.

>> No.37911618

Having presented my case to all the extent any sapient, rational human would require, with extensive and generous points of direction and countless other points and I clues, I must ask, do I really care? Someone so stupid they think any form of criticism, or any response short of spoonfeeding the obvious conclusion, is "shitposting" - is it worth helping this individual? Why don't you take a stab at the correct answer to this teaser.

>> No.37911776

Oh really?

>you think 10" blast only covers 7 models?
>no, just wondering about the 2D6 wounds per target thing
>read >>37905254 again, idiot
>so did you mean D6 times D6 then?

Path 1:
>not gonna explain it to you, be smarter
>not a mind reader
>you're ignoring everything I've typed since then
>like how people don't understand you?

Path 2:
>you roll for every model under blast, git gud
>that was never said in >>37905254
>muh context! (which, apparently is separate from all of these posts and >>37910338 all of those)
>so I'm autist because I can't read your mind to figure out what you mean?

Paths conjoin:
>retards, context, misunderstanding the point, gets spelt out several times, ignoring it

So, along this string of posts, where was your actual point that explains everything, because apart from "git gud", "learn to context" and "read the post again", you're not explaining very much, despite always claiming you have done so several times and I'm just not getting it.

>> No.37911843

Highlighting ALL of the posts in the thread. Anon, I am actually starting to enjoy this. Where will Autismo's wild ride lead me next?

Honestly, it's just insane that you don't understand . . . any of this, really.

>> No.37911920

No, I understand, I'm just interested on seeing how far you're going to play this charade and shitpost while accusing others of being retards and not getting you like a whiny emo kid throwing a tantrum at their parents.

>> No.37911950

jesus christ both of you just shut the fuck up

>> No.37911996

It's been about 5 people that just left because of beard-kun.

>> No.37912078

You plainly understand jack shit. The fact that you think any of the threads you highlighted went anything like your greentext summaries of them is enough mong to actually change half the numbers in existence to potato. It's staggering how much I would actually have to explain at this juncture to rectifiy the problem that I had thought was so tiny originally. It's been a laugh anon, but I'm probably going to bed soon. >>37911950 can get his wish. Shine on, you crazy star.

>> No.37912730

Yeah yeah, it's all too deep for me, we get it.

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