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40310825 No.40310825 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

>What is Exalted?
An epic high-flying role-playing game about reborn god-heroes in a world that turned on them.
Read this article to get a hang of the setting: http://theonyxpath.com/exalted/

>That sounds cool, how can I get into it?
Read the 3e core book. For mechanics of the old edition, play this tutorial: http://jyenicolson.net/exalted/. It'll get you familiar with most of the mechanics.

>Gosh that was fun. How do I find a group?
Roll20 and the Game Finder General here on /tg/ are both places where games could be found. With the new edition, though, chances are more games will crop up. Keep your eyes peeled.

Resources for Third Edition
>Pre-Layout 3E Leak https://mega.co.nz/#!1p0RQTyS!1fvgzcFVcAsnxWb3ExDE3b_PZHaGMEY7G3YOSVGdu9I
>Solar Charm Trees - http://imgur.com/a/GBdsW
>MA Charm Trees - http://imgur.com/a/6jeZ7
>Evocations Charm Trees- http://imgur.com/a/oZ6wu
>All-inclusive Martial Arts PDF by Anon https://www.dropbox.com/s/17srgggvpao94n0/MA%20Styles%20PDF.pdf?dl=0
>Character Sheet & Init tracker: https://drive.google.com/#folders/0B3I6-eDu-lQ6aUZDaS14Tlh1a3c
>Fiction Anthologies https://mega.co.nz/#!LZtmzJTb!rc6Jhi9jCrfphIj8bEKsDjb2fGZe4hMz6AmyOUd8xcQ
>Ex3 Comic https://mega.co.nz/#!eBtiVBIB!dGp1-1F3ma6EYOf52Uza3eSxHK5IDHCGPnSHGvyluus
>Ex3 Cheat sheet

Resources for Second Edition
>Archive with Errata notes: https://www.mediafire.com/folder/253ulzik1j9s5/Exalted
>Fanmade crossbook indexes: http://www.4shared.com/office/_Ke_MsnJba/_exalted_indices.html
>Chargen program: http://anathema.github.io/

Warstrider edition. Have you ever used them in a game?

>> No.40310892

Why's the Reddit community so terrible?

http://www.reddit.com/r/exalted/comments/2yef3m/whats_the_best_use_of_a_4_dot_cache_egg_you_have/

>"Someone starting play with one, unless it's nothing more than the egg itself, or something that could lead to a story on its own (containing a journal, a map, etc), no way in hell."

Yeah I remember when one of my players gave their character a motivation. I ripped the sheet in front of their face and sent them out. How dare they?

>> No.40311033

>>40310892
I'll let you in on a secret, everything is terrible forever. RPG.net has drank the social justice Kool-Aid, Reddit's ranking algorithm means hivemind opinions are always the most prominent, Something Awful is literally populated by people who were dumb enough to pay $10 for an internet forum, Onyx Path forums are better at sucking authorial dick than a high-class Thai lady-boy, 4chan has a horrifyingly low signal-to-noise ratio, and the Solars have been gone for too long and 150 returning heroes are too little, too late to save Creation.

>> No.40311149

Is it possible to play as (Heroic) Mortals in 3e still? I'm going to try to start a game where the players themselves have tripped into Creation, possibly through the Well of Udr (the 1e version, not the shitty 2e version).

>> No.40311163

>>40311149

Your players would hardly be Heroic Mortals. They'd be mooks at best, or the terrified guy who screams "Oh Gods, they're coming to kill us all!"

>> No.40311229

>>40311163
Heh, you don't know my players.

>> No.40311631

>>40310892
The Reddit Exalted community is made up of mods who refuse to allow 3e discussion because OPP doesn't allow it. They're not affiliated with OPP, they're just camping what could potentially be an ultra-popular Exalted forum to make sure it's not used for anything good.

They're douchebags. It's a dead community.

>> No.40311676

>>40311631
but....couldn't you just make a new subreddit if you're unhappy with the old one?

>> No.40311693

>>40311149

Yes, they get a sidebar and everything.

>> No.40311699

>>40311676
You could, but it suffers the problem of all subreddits related to existing ones: you have to grab one with a less intuitive or popular name, and thus doom it to obscurity.

It's like /r/sex. Yeah, you could make a different one if the mods were total cunts, but how would you ever compete? They got the right name.

When a random Redditor is interested in Exalted, they're going to go to /r/Exalted, not /r/TrueExalted or /r/NotDoucheExalted.

>> No.40311778

>>40311699
>doom it to obscurity
You couldn't possibly be more obscure as it already is, I mean they've got maybe one new thread per day if you're lucky.
And maybe something like Exalted3e could work?

>> No.40311883
File: 181 KB, 1318x800, 1329686640560.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
40311883

>>40310825
Just once.

In a game I ran the Full Moon had an ongoing rivalry with an NPC Dragonblood which ended up culminating in him fighting a warstrider piloted by said DB while he was in his white tiger Emperor-Ox form while the group was leading a rebellion in the Lap.

It was consider by the whole group to be the highpoint of the session.

>> No.40312579

>>40310892
And also, I've seen Touch_Of_Sepia in literally every community that talks about Exalted. All that faggot does is whine about Solar PCs being Sues and bragging about his superior ST power trip campaigns where the PCs aren't allowed to do anything because muh gritty realistic uphill battles.

>> No.40314474

>>40312579
Why is he playing exalted? Like the SoIaF seems more his style.

>> No.40314623

I'm never going to get to play 3e.

My life is suffering.

I just want to play a Brawl focused dawn.

>> No.40314819

>See OP
>"Sweet an Anima thread !"
>Actually an exalted thread

i-its okay its not like I wanted to discuss the game or anything ;_;

>> No.40314835

>>40314623
Speaking as a guy running a game with one. It's pretty fun.

>> No.40314877

>>40314474

Because there's nothing nerds get off more on than denying the premise.

"High-fantasy game? I'mma roll up GRITTY MC GRITRANGER, WHO EATS GRIT AND SHITS GRITTIER GRIT." "Low fantasy game? TIME TO BUST OUT MY ARCHMAGE RULES." etc.

>> No.40314894

>>40314835
How does it play?

And how does the dawn play? Just straight brawly or some grapples or what?

>> No.40315017

>>40310825
You used the wrong art. That's from Anima: Beyond Fantasy.

Exalted is still pretty badass.

>> No.40315374

>>40314877
http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/exalted/520429-infernals-and-rebellion

>Ask about how to keep a GSP PC alive in a dangerous situation.
>Get answers saying the PC will survive easily because he's Exalted and also a PC.
>Rebukes every answer with MUH GRIT.

He even literally said he wants Exalted to be more like ASoIaF.

>> No.40315482

>>40315374

I'm honestly confused by the idea of a "Realistic Exalted" game.

Shouldn't he be running mortals then?

>> No.40315595

>>40315374
Creation's pretty brutal for mortals, hell even heroic mortals without the laundry list of Exalted immunities can easily have a bad day.

>> No.40315662

>>40315595
I've played a mortal in exalted.

I spent 75% of my pre-exalted game time on fire.

>> No.40315716

>>40315662
What, no horrible horrible bleeding you can't hope to staunch?

>> No.40315734

>>40315716
No, just being on fire, then spending a journey healing up, just to be on fire in a different part of fucking creation.

Fuck fire.

>> No.40315757

>>40315734
how the fuck did you run into all that fire

>> No.40315790

>>40315662
I too played a mortal in exalted, two in fact. One was a doctor who brutally killed an assassin at a dinner with a steak knife. The other was a mercenary commander who kept nearly dieing whenever he tried to do something awesome enough to exalt.

>> No.40315886

>>40315757
Some flame wands
Some alchemical grenades.
I was just a good target for fire I guess.

>> No.40316162

...You know, I was thinking about a conversation we had a couple threads back and I think I zeroed in on why the Dawn Solar XP bonus is so restrictive and annoying. It's because a running theme of Exalted is that violence is not a solution, it's a stopgap. Violence just causes more violence, kicking the problem down the line and making the world lesser in the process. If your Circle wants to try to better the world, even if it's not in a perfect way, the Dawn is the only one who actively makes your job harder because he leaves a wake dead bodies and lingering hatreds, unless you earn the SXP by punching out behemoths or something.

>> No.40316257

>>40311033
What's wrong with Sufficient Velocity?

>> No.40316271

>>40316257
It's actually insufficient.

>> No.40316331

>>40316271
Well now you're not even trying.

>> No.40316429

>>40316257
Isn't SV the one full of Jon Chung's acolytes? I don't visit it myself.

>> No.40316450

>>40316429
Not really, though they do allow him to post.

>> No.40316524

>make a "Exalted" general
>post picture of Anima

State of the Art Keknology.

>> No.40316716

>>40316429
We deign to listen to him, though it's not like he's ever around much. Mostly shows up to grouch.

>> No.40316757

>>40310825

God dammit OP. I thought this was an Anima thread going past.

>> No.40316992

>>40316162
But if you don't want violence, why bother with a Dawn?

>> No.40317038

>>40316992
This guy has a point. I mean, SOMEONE has to kick the Dusk's ass when the inevitable Abyssal counter-Circle turns up.

>> No.40317121

>>40316162
But I want to play a Dawn who believes that enemies are just friends who haven't had sense beaten into them yet.

Mainly because he'd see the enemy Dusk as the perfect rival to help him get stronger and so on.

>> No.40317155

>>40316992

Wanting to be the coolest guy in a fight doesn't mean you want to have a fight. Surely you can think of a trillion concepts off the preceding sentence that make sense as a Dawn and nothing else?

>>40317121

This the part that irks me, yes. The fact that you have to go full Nanoha or get enemies that are cardboard cutouts which you are morally justified to kill or destroy to justify that SXP gain. There should be room to act in other ways and still get the XP other people are getting.

>> No.40317414

>>40317155
All the Dawn sxp stuff says you have to "defeat" or "defend" or "[use] martial prowess." I think that gives plenty of room to just show someone up without actually killing or destroying anyone.

As ST I'd even count an intimidation action as sxp worthy. "Your man in the rafters with the bow? I have a throwing knife in my boot, so he's first. Then the big one next to you..." or, "Let me tell you where my soldiers are about to do before you answer that..." For me that displays martial prowess, and if the stakes are high enough to warrant it, there's your role bonus for today, good sir.

>> No.40317595

>>40317414

Since we don't always get a chance to say nice things about fellow anons, lemme just say that that makes you a good ST. Keep on rocking man.

>> No.40317684

>>40317595
I'm just chopping some onions. That's why my eyes are leaking, OK?

>> No.40318139

So, showing my stupidity here, my group only got into exalted because our defacto DM found a 1st edition core rule book. Since then we've gotten in and started absolutely loving the game. Like, the complaints we've had about the rules have been next to minimal. Yet everywhere online, everyone is bemoaning how 2E is awful, but head and shoulders above 1E, and 3E even better than that. What exactly was WRONG with 1st edition to garner that kind of hate? Seriously, it's like my group isn't finding anything to complain about, is it because we're playing so vanilla?

>> No.40318165

>>40318139

Nothing. 1e was a much better game than 2e, for its time and in general. It just had some shitty design choices like having to split your dicepools for attack and defense, and also having a social system that basically consisted of its charms. It's far preferable to 2e regardless.

>> No.40318239

>>40318165
There were certain considerations, though. Namely, combat resolution took even longer than 2e's paranoia combo grind did.

>> No.40318393

>>40318239

To be fair, so does Ex3rd. No game as crunchy as the good Exalted editions is gonna be fast.

>> No.40318954

So I'm considering testing out 3e soon but I do have a small snag: RAW would mean any collection of more than 1 mook is a battle group, right? This is kind of an issue; I was planning on having a handful of mooks just to teach basic combat rules, but battlegroups work completely differently. Any suggestions?

>> No.40319044

>>40318954
Spread the fight out?

>> No.40319141

>>40318954
Just ignore RAW and don't treat them as a battlegroup.

>> No.40319156

>>40311033
>150 returning heroes are too little, too late to save Creation.
> Implying abyssals or infernal can't save the day too

>> No.40319178

So why does Brawl not get Excellent Strike? Or Perfect Strike Discipline?

It seems weird for it to be arbitrarily worse than Melee.

>> No.40319264

I am not sure if i have understood how feats of STR work.
For example if i want to throw a mule; i must have strength 5 and roll 6 successes on my strength+athletics roll, correct?

>> No.40319304

>>40319264
It sounds like you understand it pretty well.

>> No.40319314

>>40319178
Because if the Unarmed combat style available only to ~1000 superpowered god beings, is on par with the weapon based style of the same ~1000 god beings, why would the millions of normal people for whom weapons are better than fighting bare handed, use weapons?

Note:this is the actual dev reason.

>> No.40319333

This feels a bit strawman-y to me, but still. Shouldn't differentiation between 'armed' and 'unarmed' be conveyed with weapons, not charms?

>> No.40319358

>>40319178
Because if you're going to give every combat ability the exact same charms, why even bother differentiating?

>> No.40319362

>>40311229
Unless they're world-class somethings, their highest dice pool is probably going to be 4, with an average of 2 or 3. Actually look at the story's of feats suggested for mundane difficulties and ratings. Someone with a 'good' dice pool for Exalted is someone who can do seemingly-impossible things without spending a single point of essence.

So no, your players probably aren't heroic mortals. Yes, even the former army ranger/eagle scout. He's just an Elite Soldier made with the quick characters rules.

>> No.40319393

>>40319358
It's impressive how you managed to come up with that response, as though you were reading an entirely different post. What did the one you read said? To clarify, this is what I actually posted:

>So why does Brawl not get Excellent Strike? Or Perfect Strike Discipline?

>It seems weird for it to be arbitrarily worse than Melee.

Those charms? An excellency and a free excellency. They have no flavour, they are not effects. Giving them to Melee and no other combat ability has no function except to make Melee better than any other combat style at the most basic level.

>> No.40319442

>>40319393
Excellent Strike is far more than an Excellency, it's something that protects against charms that exploit 1s

>> No.40319447

>>40319442
It's a very good, cheap excellency.

>> No.40319473

>>40319447
No. it's value isn't in the dice/successes, those are just a nice bonus. If it was just about being a cheap excellency, then Brawl wouldn't miss it at all, since it has it's own, cheap dice-adder.

>> No.40319547
File: 74 KB, 500x400, cba.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
40319547

Tell me about your CBA, Anon-chan.

>> No.40319568

>>40319473
Alright, help me out here. I just skimmed Brawl again and I can't find it. What cheap dice-adder?

>> No.40319580

>>40319178
Because it has Ferocious Jab and the ability to make onslaught penalties not degrade. Does that make up for the fact that, unlike Melee, it's vulnerable to 1s-exploiting powers? No. But that's the reason.

>> No.40319586 [DELETED] 

>>40319568
Ferocious Jab. It costs 1 mote and will probably add 10 dice eventually.
It's really freaking good.

>> No.40319589

>>40319314
No, it's not, the devs have given no reason. That was a sarcastic joke I made in the last thread, not something they actually said.

>> No.40319600

>>40319586
>>40319580
That's a damage booster. Don't get me wrong, it's a great one, but that is absolutely nothing like Excellent Strike.

>> No.40319626

>>40319568
>>40319600
Yeah sorry, I misremembered what it did, it adds to damage, not attacks.

>> No.40319721

>>40319600
Right. Like I said, it doesn't make up for 1s negation. But that's still the reason why; the devs may have thought it did. Every Ability has a little 1m utility like that, it's just that the other combat ones get blown out of the water by Melee's.

>> No.40319744

>>40319721
Eh. Excellent Strike is only good against Dodge Solars or Clash Brawlers. There isn't a single antagonist in the book that has 1s-exploiting charms like those. It's actually an absurdly situational charm useful against an absolutely microscopic range of enemies.

>> No.40319775

>>40319304
Ok thank you.
I think that the required successes are a bit high, sure they might ok for exalted (because they have excellences) but other beings like spirits and animals seem to have trouble doing feats of strength that they should (to my opinion) be able to do; for example the tyrant lizard, even with the double 8 it can only reliably get 6 or 7 successes (if my math is right) which aren't enough even for all STR 5 feats of strength, to say nothing about the STR 7 feats of strength that the tyrant lizard can attempt.

Does anyone else has a problem with that?

>> No.40319776

Still, my mind boggles at the idea that Melee's free excellency is Essence 3 with two prerequisites while Brawl's is Essence 4 with six prerequisites and on top of that, requires you to be at iconic anima.

>>40319744
1 automatic success and cascading rerolls are nothing to sneeze at.

>> No.40319869

>>40319776
It really is. That 'free success' is two dice against your cap, and you're only likely to have one or two 1s per roll at any time. Don't get me wrong - it's very affordable, and not at all shit. But people's interpretation of it being the beat fucking thing ever is based on the incorrect assumption that enemies are going to have high-level Solar Dodge.

It's nice. It's not amazing.

>> No.40320011

>>40319744
>>40319869
This is accurate. By the same token, most enemies don't have onslaught negators.

Most of the discussions about which combat abilities are 'good' seem to assume that your enemy is going to be a high-Essence, optimally-built Solar. Most Solars - let alone most enemies as a whole - don't have an onslaught-negator or a 1s-exploiter.

Against any enemy other than a character with Excellent Strike, Brawl is the best clashing Ability. Against any enemy without onslaught negation, Brawl is the best single-target offensive Ability.

What Melee kicks Brawl's ass at is fighting many enemies at once, fighting high-tier combat-specced exalts, and defensive fighting. What Brawl kicks Melee's ass at is single-target burst damage, battlefield control, and clashing non-Solar-Melee, at the cost of being a reckless, high-risk high-reward style all around.

Y'all should temper your expectations. Most enemies you fight won't be exalts, and of those that are, most of them will be Dragon-blooded. Brawl's actually better than Solar Melee at dealing with any hard targets who don't also have Solar Melee.

>> No.40320052

I wouldn't count on DBs not having charms to exploit 1s, those things seem to be an integral part of the e3 combat system. If they don't get them, what will they fill their charm-trees with?

>> No.40320085

>>40320052
Charms that negate their ally's rolled 1s.

>> No.40320099

>>40315374
Hah... this guy is a riot.

>> No.40320118

>>40320085
But their excellency already lets them do that, that would be very redundant.

>> No.40320120

>>40320052
>I wouldn't count on DBs not having charms to exploit 1s
Why? Even Solars only barely have any of those charms, and literally not a single one appears in the Antagonist chapter. Excellent Strike getting rid of all of its 1s is a minor quirk that defends against a tiny handful of extremely edge cases - and even then, it doesn't defend against all of them, see:

>Reckless Fury Discard
>Cost: 3m, 1i; Mins: Brawl 5, Essence 2; Type: Reflexive
>Keywords: Perilous
>Duration: Instant
>Prerequisite Charms: Iron Battle Focus
>Channeling her rage, the Exalt strikes away a blow at the last second, or steps between strikes to get at her target’s throat. This Charm can be activated after an opponent’s attack roll, raising the Solar’s Parry or Evasion by a number equal to the 1s in the attack roll. This Charm takes precedence over those that reroll 1s.
>This Charm takes precedence over those that reroll 1s.

Excellent Strike provides a minor-but-cheap bonus and a defense against some-but-not-all of an extremely-small class of very specific sort of defensive charms. It's not bad - that small-but-cheap bonus is worth the 1m, obviously - but it's definitely nowhere near as good as people make it out to be, because people always end up with the warped, paranoia-fueled mental image of combat that assumes, for some reason, that the opponent you're building yourself to a fight is a Solar with charms specifically intended to fuck your shit up.

>> No.40320137

>>40320120
>literally not a single one appears in the Antagonist chapter
There's also not any scene-length penalty negators, but I'm fairly certain Abyssals will get those.

>> No.40320225

>>40320099
It's always weird to see people try to play Exalted as something completely different from Exalted.

>> No.40320935

>>40320011
>Against any enemy other than a character with Excellent Strike, Brawl is the best clashing Ability. Against any enemy without onslaught negation, Brawl is the best single-target offensive Ability.

I really hope you're right. It's really easy to build a character around Onslaught, and even easier to completely demolish that character at the moment.

>> No.40321113

>>40320935
>and even easier to completely demolish that character at the moment
Actually, there aren't. As an example, Melee has charms which, to use exact wording, 'can ignore all penalties to parry an attack with her full Defense.' This doesn't cancel their Onslaught penalty, and charms like Ferocious Jab can still interact with it. It just stops it from lowering their Parry for a single attack.

The only charm in the entire game which flatly cancels or otherwise prevents the accumulation of onslaught is Iron Battle Focus, under Brawl.

So, yeah, if a person's invested in Shadow Over Water or Dipping Swallow Defense, they can ignore the effect that Onslaught has on their Evasion or Parry. But you can still fuck them in the ass with it, unless they've bought Brawl's Iron Battle Focus - literally the only charm in the game at the moment that cancels/prevents onslaught rather than merely making it not apply to your Defense score of choice.

>> No.40321129

>>40321113
Gathering Light Concentration

>> No.40321184

>>40321113
If you have Ox-Stunning Blow and Falling Hammer Strike, you probably want to use them for something other than Ferocious Jab.

On a more positive note, are the Dawn Fangs as good as they look? The emerald evocations seem great.

>> No.40321188

>>40321129
>Gathering Light Concentration
Still keeps the Onslaught on you, it just applies them to your opponent's Defense for a single turn. So, if a Brawler is using - for example - Falling Hammer Strike to make sure that Onslaught doesn't decade, then when that single turn passes the Onslaught is still on the original target.

That's just yet another charm which changes where/how the onslaught modifies someone's defenses without actually removing or canceling it. Sure, the brawler won't be too happy if they get hit because of the onslaught they're inflicting, but they're absolutely still inflicting it.

The only way to actually stop onslaught from accruing on someone - rather than ignoring its effect on your Defense, or using it as a bonus, or what have you - is through Iron Battle Focus.

>> No.40321221

>>40321188
The mastery effect specifically states that it cancels all onslaught penalties the user is suffering from and inflict them on the attacker. No till end of turn listed there, either.

>> No.40321223

>>40321188
>Mastery: At Essence 3+, the Solar may spend an extra 3i when activating Gathering Light Concentration to cancel all onslaught penalties she’s suffering from, and inflict them on her attacker.

>> No.40321242

>>40310825
>hollow circle

For a Night, he's not very sneaky

>> No.40321258

>>40321221
>>40321223
Ah, missed that bit. In that case, yes, Single Point Shining Into the Void is a hard counter to onslaught brawlers.

>> No.40321267

>>40321242
Some Night Castes are more about Athletics, Dodge, and Awareness than they are about Stealth or Larceny.

>> No.40321272

>>40321267
Their anima powers would beg to differ

>> No.40321279

>>40321258
>Single Point Shining Into the Void is a hard counter to onslaught brawlers
Only when used by Solars. Remember, DBs and such don't get the Mastery effect, so it still works as normal against them.

>> No.40321288

>>40321242
Our group is so unsubtle that we joke that Stealth is banned at our table. Our Night Caste is basically Aladdin and our Zenith responds to every problem by activating Glorious Solar Sabre and Glorious Solar Plate with peripheral motes.

We don't even have a fucking Dawn, when the Wyld Hunt catch up we are so very dead.

>> No.40321296

>>40321272
Who gives a shit? If I have Supernal Athletics and don't pick Stealth or Larceny as caste skills, my anima powers are, at best, a tertiary concern.

>> No.40321492

>>40321184
>On a more positive note, are the Dawn Fangs as good as they look? The emerald evocations seem great.

Seriously, discussions about the effectiveness of onslaught aside. I haven't tested them, or really looked at themin combination with Brawl. How well do they play?

>> No.40321495
File: 233 KB, 1812x1513, what it means to be exalted.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
40321495

>>40311033
>RPG.net has drank the social justice Kool-Aid
I remember when RPG.net used to be good.

>> No.40321504

Would Glorious Solar Plate have a built-in cestus in the form of your glorious solar gauntlets?

>> No.40321522

>>40321492
Honestly? You're probably not going to get an answer. Everyone likes to give the suggestion of picking up a weapon with good Evocations to suit your combat style, but Exalted General is consistently unwilling to actually discuss Evocations beyond that basic suggestion.

>> No.40321533

>>40321504
Sure, if you want. It just wouldn't have artifact stats.

>> No.40321537

>>40321504
Yeah, but they'd count as a mundane cestus.

>> No.40321538
File: 888 KB, 914x682, wrong.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
40321538

>>40321495
>That screencap

>> No.40321552

>>40321538
I dunno, I liked his Dragonblood thing

>> No.40321573

>>40321537
>>40321533
That's what I was assuming

>> No.40321598

>>40321552
The central premise of the Realm is that most Dynasts have stopped fighting for Creation. It's the main freaking theme.

>> No.40321615

>>40321495
I only skimmed it but what exactly seems SJWy about that?

>> No.40321616

>>40321598
Lookshy pls go

>> No.40321728

>>40321616
Lookshy isn't much better, on a national scale. Cetainly, each Lookshy DB actually is a patriot, but they're mostly concerned with their own city-state, rather than Creation as a whole.

>> No.40321869

>>40310892
>Why's the Reddit community so terrible?
Why is this one?

>> No.40321940

>>40321598
If you read the Aspect Books of 1E, you'll notice that quite a few Dynasts, perhaps the majority, are at least somewhat concerned with fighting for the Creation. They tend to view defending the Realm as more or less synonymous with this because *of course* Realm is the one thing capable of keeping the Creation together, this is just common sense (if you've been raised as a Dynast). There are other things they care about than fighting the Creation, of course, seeing how they are people rather than Creation-defending automatons, and as individuals they can be and frequently are short-sighted, blinded by personal agendas and incapable of seeing the big picture. Giving up on fighting for the Creation most assuredly isn't the central premise of the Realm, though.

>> No.40322360

>>40321615
I think it was a screenshot from when that site used to be good. Hence the I remember meme. On my own game note we'll be viking burying one of the PC's come next game night

>> No.40322428

>>40321940
Well, I'm sure most (not all) Dynasts haven't just decided that Fuck Creation, I've Got Mine. But if most of them decide to shift their main priority to their Houses and bumping ideas like protecting the Threshold down to second place, all at once during the freaking Time of Tumult, then that's basically the same thing. Certainly, there are paragons who bemoan the state of things and try to do the right thing, but they're the exception, not the rule - you can't have a whole nation of D'rizzts.

More importantly, what that guy was asserting was that ALL DBs are heroes - which is laughably false. If he'd said something like 'some DBs are noble warriors,' that would be actually accurate.

>> No.40322521

>>40322428
>More importantly, what that guy was asserting was that ALL DBs are heroes
No, he said that all Dynasts know how to fight, and that COLLECTIVELY Dragon-Blooded, as every other type of Exalt, are heroes. I mean, he specifically said that all Exalted aren't heroes individually. It's just that some flavor of heroism is sort of the default for every kind of Exalted, and every Exalt shares in some legacy of heroism. This is true and makes no strong statement about individual Exalted.

>> No.40322590

>>40321272

That really does piss me off. Why on earth did they have to tie one of the Anima powers to something as very specific as 'Stealth' when it's not even certain they'll TAKE it as a caste skill.

>> No.40322611

>>40321940
>1e books being relevant in this decade
Only the ones listed on the kickstarter.

>> No.40322642

>>40322590
The same reason Dawns get an important power for intimidation, despite not having a single social Ability in their caste abilities.

>> No.40322655

>>40322428

Deciding 'Fuck creation' doesn't make them less heroic. It may make them less moral but that's not the sort of heroism the game is talking about. It's talking about greatness and power, not righteousness.

>> No.40322666

>>40322642

Bad game design?

>> No.40322712

>>40322666
Yup. They were overly specific with the anima powers when they should have been more generic utilities. Burning corpses, diplomatic immunity, and your Anima banner not burning ate useful utilities regardless of what Abilities you do or don't take. A bonus on specific types of social checks and stealth rolls? Much less so.

>> No.40322729

>>40322712
You know what would be cool? If you picked anima powers like you picked caste abilities. I wonder how that would work?

>> No.40322745

>>40322729
To clarify: I absolutely think some should be specific to a caste, like the 'reset cooldowns' one for dawns or 'being able to not anima flare' for nights.

>> No.40322848

>>40322729
Badly, for the devs' intended game design. They're trying to make castes more rigid this edition - with Supernal and Solar xp and such - not more flexible. Which is a damn shame, because I like the Twilight ability to bind spirits on Eclipses a lot more than I like it on Twilights. I find it weird that Twilights have no 'knowing things' related power and, instead, have a power that would be more at home on the 'interacting with spirits and magical bindings' caste.

Twilights are supposed to be the Scholar caste - as much about Medicine, Lore, Craft, Investigation, and so forth - but for some reason their powers seem almost entirely sorcerous.

>> No.40322878

>>40322848
>but for some reason their powers seem almost entirely sorcerous.
No Moon's get the same shit.

Seriously, at what period of history did Exalts get their anima powers? Because the Exalted couldn't use Sorcery or summon demons until pretty late on.

>> No.40322997

>>40322878
>Seriously, at what period of history did Exalts get their anima powers? Because the Exalted couldn't use Sorcery or summon demons until pretty late on.
>being this retarded

>> No.40323039

>>40322878
Eh, the Lunar exaltations and castes got fundamentally alerted after the usurpation, and sorcery in 3e doesn't seem to come from the Yozi anyway, instead being a natural result of harnessing the world's inherent magic. My real problem is that the scholar caste of doctors, historians, and craftsmen have, as their anima powers:
>incinerate your body in sorcerous fire and appear later teleported to a nearby crossroads or godly sanctum
>bind elementals and demons to be your magical servants, able to be re-summoned at will
>magical forcefield that keeps you from getting killed

Those sound like powers that should be a sorcery spell, an anima power on the 'all about magical bindings and interacting with spirits' caste, and something that should, at bare minimum, go to a caste which prominently features Resistance, respectively. Twilights don't have a single anima power that makes me think, "Oh, these guys are smart and know lots of nerd shit."

>> No.40323113

>>40323039
I don't actually like any of the anima powers at all.

I'm playing a Zenith Sorcerer-King and I just basically forget I have them.

>> No.40323117

>>40322729
>>40322745

That would be pretty cool. I'd likely go '1 that is set, one from a caste list(Though some, like binding spirits as familiars might turn up on a couple of castes), one general'

>> No.40323119

>>40323113
Play a Twilight, their's are awesome

>> No.40323154

>>40323119
I do honestly like theirs better, but the rulership is much, much more important to the character.

>> No.40323203

>>40323039
Yeah, the 2.5E solution, 'they get a weaker version of all encompassing sorcerer sight' was a little more elegant. Problem was it kind of obsoleted all encompassing sorceror sight.

>> No.40323291

>>40323154
>rulership
Your do realize that Twilights can get Supernal Bureaucracy with social stuff still Favored, right? Twilights are the best actual leaders; Zeniths are the best priests and figureheads/recruiters.

>> No.40323334

>>40323203
What Twilights should have in 3e is a power interacting with the Introducing Facts subsystem. It's elegant and beyond obvious for their caste. It's a sad shame that they got 'teleport to safety' and 'magically binding spirits' instead.

>> No.40323347

>>40323334
Well they are the Wizard caste

>> No.40323363

>>40316162
Violence is a tool like any other that can solve or cause problems depending on how you use it. If you use it clumsily, or apply it in the wrong situation, things get worse. Applied correctly, things get better.

The Dawn bonus is fine, y'all motherfuckers just don't know how to Dawn.

>> No.40323365

>>40323334
To be fair, those two are better than 'magically tough' which is pure legacy mechanics and never actually worked for the caste.

>> No.40323411

>>40318393
Oh god no, 3e resolves way quicker than 1e. Here, let me describe a 1e fight to you:

"I attack!"

"Okay, your accuracy pool fails to blow past his stacked persistents. He attacks."

"He doesn't get past my defense."

FOUR HOURS LATER

"okay let's just skip the fight"

>> No.40323540

>>40323347

They are a LOT more than just the wizard caste. Neither of those is really 'Artisan' or 'Teacher' or 'Loremaster'.

Not every Twilight has sorcery (Though most do) or even occult as caste.

>> No.40323557

>>40323540
Dawn - Fighter
Zenith - Cleric
Twilight - Wizard
Night - Rogue
Eclipse - Bard

You may not like it, but that's all the writers see

>> No.40323582

>>40323557
That's how it's been since 1e, anon. The castes have never been amorphous blobs, they were roles -- roles you're allowed to step outside of or defy, but roles all the same.

>> No.40323631

Would people here feel a slave-based economy where slaves were "leased" by the government, so there were government-imposed limits on treatment for them, is a plausible model?

>> No.40323651

>>40323631
You mean like House Cynis on the Blessed Isle?

>> No.40323667

>>40323631
There is no reason to mistreat your slaves, all that does is make them less productive and more likely to rebel. People who do it are fucking retarded.

>> No.40323720

>>40323631
Do you mean all slaves are owned by the government but you can rent them? Sure, that'd work. Would there be any private ownership in this model?

>>40323667
Plenty of successful societies and extremely profitable corporations have treated slaves horrifically historically. It was not good to be a helot or a worker on Caribbean plantation.

>> No.40323821

>>40316757
>>40315017
>>40314819

Same here. I just came in to see how many people where the same.

Yearly reminder, that solomon's legacy is best mecha.

>> No.40323859

>>40323347
No, they're the doctor, scholar, engineer, and general nerd caste. They can't even make Sorcery Supernal - no exalt can. There is no wizard caste.

>> No.40324015

>>40323720
Yeah, basically my thinking. There's be limits to how harshly you could punish them and basic working standards from a simple "Stop fucking with government resources" kind of perspective.

>> No.40324086

>>40323859
Also Salina, arguably the most influential sorcerer in history, was canonically a Zenith rather than Twilight. There is both more to Twilights than sorcery and more to sorcerers than the Twilight Caste.

>> No.40324176

>>40324086
The same material that made Salina a Zenith also very strongly implied she achieved her influence not through sorcery but brainwashing the more accomplished Twilight who was her rival.

A sort of Tesla vs Edison thing.

>> No.40324212

>>40324086
And in 3e, any caste is exactly as good as any other caste at Sorcery as long as they favor Occult for getting the xp discount on learning spells. Mastering Sorcery is a big thing that any caste can work towards with equal skill.

>> No.40324300

>>40324176
>The same material that made Salina a Zenith also very strongly implied she achieved her influence not through sorcery but brainwashing the more accomplished Twilight who was her rival.
I'm afraid I don't recall anything of the sort.

>> No.40324353

>>40324300
Her most accomplished rival, the head of the school she later took over, denounced her. She went and had a long private talk with him. When she was done, he had seen the light, renounced his position, agreed with her completely, and just vanishes from history.

She mind-fucked her way into being the premier sorceress.

>> No.40324591

>>40324353
I'm not sure I'd interpret those events like that. Salina was also established as someone who loathed authority and hierarchical structures - an egalitarian anarchist more than anything. Brainwashing someone like that does not seem like her kind of thing. Anyways, regardless of how things went, she *was* a grade A sorceress, and it was the Salinan Working that made her the most influential sorcerer of all time. Her accomplishments were very much her own, so it was not really like Tesla vs Edison at all.

>> No.40324624

>>40324591
I assure you he did not realize his life's work was wrong and this young upstart was correct and deserved his position because she made a very compelling non-brainwashing argument.

As for the Working, that's not even sorcery, in 2e. They're Lore Charms.

>> No.40324854

>>40324624
>I assure you he did not realize his life's work was wrong and this young upstart was correct and deserved his position because she made a very compelling non-brainwashing argument.
I wouldn't be so sure about it. Student becoming the master and helping his old teacher realize an important lesson is hardly rare in fiction. It would not be out of place in any way.

>> No.40324892

>>40315886
>Some flame wands
>Some alchemical grenades.
Yep. That'll do it.

I'd have also accepted "being downwind of Gem."

>> No.40325022

>>40324854
She wasn't his student. Here, I'll quote some relevant bits from Lords of Creation.

"Only a few hundred years after her Exaltation, Salina famously convinced one of the oldest sorcerers alive, Devon, that his school was in error and hers the truth. In a move that shocked the sorcerous establishment, Devon performed a Solar ritual that sent every Devonian treatise up in flames, then turned his academy over to Salina."

And so far as her and brainwashing goes, among others she has Charms like Worshipful Lackey Acquisition, which is extreme mind-control.

So, yeah. She mind-raped a better sorcerer to push her views over his.

>> No.40325094

>>40325022
>better
Older. Not necessarily better. She might have been 100% correct, regardless of her methods.

>> No.40325132

>>40325094

Yeah there's not a chance she was better than the guy who had been a sorcerer longer than she'd been a Solar. It's not like she had Super Solar Sorcery or Super Solar Occult Charms.

It's pretty damn obvious that the Zenith with powerful mind-control Charms who somehow convinced an ancient sorcerer to literally destroy his life's work accomplished it via mind-control.

>> No.40325175

>>40325022
That is still far from convincing proof for mind-rape. Devon's actions would also make sense for an old sorcerer whose life's work has been proved lacking and misguided in a way he can't refute or refuse to acknowledge. Note that I'm not saying mind-rape couldn't have taken place, but it definitely isn't the only explanation for the events in question.

>> No.40325188

>>40325132
>this many assumptions
>this many opinions
Nobody knows what happened. That's the entire point of writing a plot hook like that. She might have mind-controlled him. She might have convinced him of the validity of her ideas with the perfect argument. Or anything else might have happened.

The ENTIRE POINT is that nobody knows. Exalted is intentionally written in a way that plot hooks specifically lack one true interpretation.

>> No.40325256

>>40325188
>>40325175
"No really, the Zenith with incredibly powerful mind-rape Charms and a belief that there's no wrong actions and no going too far if it's in service to her crusades, to the extent she has specialties indicating such, absolutely did not mind-rape this sorcerer into acting completely out of character and shocking everyone who was even remotely aware of him."

ok

>> No.40325301

>>40325256
No, anon, no one is saying that she *absolutely* didn't mind-rape him. What we're saying is that there is more than one possible explanation for the events and that it is ridiculous to pretend otherwise.

>> No.40325379

>>40325301
Sure, plenty of other possible explanations, just like how before Return of the Scarlet Empress the Ebon Dragon's bride totally could have been anyone and anyone saying the evidence pointed to big red was imagining it because that's not how Exalted is written.

If you're unable to appreciate the clear implication behind making her a Zenith, giving her powerful mind-control Charms, and calling out that his actions were out of character and stunned everyone, that's on you. It doesn't mean the book isn't clear.

>> No.40325433

>>40325379
You... you do realize that Return of the Scarlet Empress wasn't canon, right? And that people trying to treat it as canon is hated and reviled within the community? And that you trying to do the same thing with this particular hook is going to convince exactly zero people that what you're saying is valid?

I mean, shooting yourself in the foot is one thing, but this...

>> No.40325486

>>40325433
Completely irrelevant. You can say it's not canon all you want, but that doesn't do a thing to change the fact the Bride was always intended to be the Empress and that all the clues pointing toward her were deliberate.

That you could run it differently makes no difference. The Bride was always the Empress.

>> No.40325500

>>40325379
>Sure, plenty of other possible explanations, just like how before Return of the Scarlet Empress the Ebon Dragon's bride totally could have been anyone and anyone saying the evidence pointed to big red was imagining it because that's not how Exalted is written.
Since Return of the Scarlet Empress was explicitly noncanon, the Ebon Dragon's bride totally can be anyone.

>> No.40325538

>>40325486
If you're the absolute arbiter over what is and isn't canon, then why are you bother to argue with us in the first place?

>> No.40325552

>>40325486
Cool story, anon. You can just keep not understanding how deliberately-ambiguous plot hooks work over there in 'objectively correct' land.

>> No.40325564

>>40325500
That you can make it anyone you want doesn't change the intent behind the hook and all the hints toward it being the Empress. There's absolutely nothing in the game you can't change or run however you want, but it's still what it is.

>>40325538
Why does anyone ever argue? People being wrong is intolerable.

>> No.40325585

>>40325564
Cool story, anon. You can just keep not understanding how deliberately-ambiguous plot hooks work over there in 'objectively correct' land.

>> No.40325635

>>40325552
It's not deliberately ambiguous. It's not ambiguous at all. It's obvious but not explicit, and that's completely different. That the Bride is the Empress was never ambiguous. It wasn't some hidden nugget of understanding you had to piece together. It was thrown in your face repeatedly, but never explicit.

>>40325552
>>40325585

Feel free to repeat this as much as you want, I won't acknowledge it beyond this post. I hope one day you learn what ambiguity is.

Or just be autistic forever, that works.

>> No.40325891

>>40325635

To put this a bit differently: What this anon is telling you is that no, Salina did not NECESSARILY mindrape Devon, but given how shittily written 2e was in general (and using RotSE as a particular example of a similar thing), the precedent suggests that the extremely obvious implication was in fact the Objective Truth Of The Setting in that edition, that she did in fact mindrape him and then probably also rape him physically (because in yet another 2eism, women are all whores, mirite?). It's not something I'd expect to see come back ever because, IF Salina gets mentioned, it makes a better plot hook to say that for once, a brainy pursuit did not require a Twilight and leave it at that.

>> No.40325955

>>40325891
Other than the physical rape and whores bit, which came out of nowhere, this is pretty much it. That Salina mind-raped Devon is the subtext behind their encounter. It is not explicit, but it's not hidden, either. It's being pushed as the clear event there, much like how the Empress being the Dragon's bride was the clear intention throughout the line, reinforced by many, many hints.

>> No.40325989

>>40325955

That was just me driving home just how terribly written 2e was by using another example of it being bad, don't worry too much about it. Point being, 2e is shit, disregard 2e fluff for everything.

>> No.40326195

>>40325635
>Feel free to repeat this as much as you want, I won't acknowledge it beyond this post. I hope one day you learn what ambiguity is.
Something that is ambiguous is either open to more than one interpretation. Here are two examples:

1.) Salina's charmset and motivations suggest the possibility that she didn't convince her rival Devon merely through superior rhetoric, but through use of mind-effecting charms. However, this is never directly stated, and so the ultimate reason Devon made so radical a change remains ambiguous.

2.) While some details seem to suggest that the Ebon Dragon's bride may have been the Scarlet Empress, this is never directly stated and her true identify is kept deliberately ambiguous.

>> No.40326240

>>40326195
no ur wrong because i say so and muh feels = reals

>> No.40326441

>>40326195
Your mother calls you on the phone. Now, you recognize her voice, but it could be someone playing pre-recorded lines of hers. You can't see her, so it isn't explicitly her.

Do you think the identity of your caller is ambiguous?

No, of course not. Something not being explicit isn't the same as it being ambiguous. It's not unclear. It's not inexact. It's not a result of sly double meanings.

>> No.40326541

>>40326441
That's a poor analogy. A more apt one would be:

Someone texts you on the phone, asking if you have dinner plans. You don't recognize the number, but you do notice a local slang word from where your mother grew up. It could be a wrong number, a spam message, another relative on your mother's side, or your mother - and you have a feeling that it's probably your mother, based on gut instinct an a couple of context clues.

And yes, I'd call that ambiguous. Just because something slightly suggests something and you, personally, find it obvious doesn't make it not-ambiguous.

>> No.40326571

>>40326541
It's not really that though.

It's "here's the right answer, but here's some wiggle room too if you want it to be different in your story"

>> No.40326619

>>40326541
Yeah, that is way more ambiguous than anything in the text. It's a worse analogy.

Exalted has never been subtle with its intentions. White Wolf in general never was. Their metaplot is always "wink wink nudge nudge say no more"; you know what it is, but they're not going to use concrete language and demand you run with it.

What >>40326571 said basically.

>> No.40326834

>>40326541

Besides what the other two anons said, lemme share something. There's a writer's saying that basically goes like this: "In analogy, detail is decay". The more tortured your analogy is, the worse it is and the less likely it is that things are the way you say they are. The first anon's analogy is much better in that sense because it's short and to the point.

>> No.40327054

What happened to that anon adding spells to Ex3? I feel like half the people on here do homebrew and just don't share. What are you keeping from the group, /exg/?

>> No.40327093

>>40327054
>I feel like half the people on here do homebrew and just don't share.
Because most people don't care. Try posting stuff like homebrewed charms or something and see nobody react.

>> No.40327116

>>40327054
All I've written is setting details. I haven't had cause to do mechanical homebrew yet. For once, canon actually covers most of what I want.

>> No.40327174

>>40327093
>Try posting stuff like homebrewed charms or something and see nobody react.
Believe me, I know. I've had to post the same charms 3 times just to get any kind of response.

>> No.40327224

>>40327174

And likewise for me. I've written billions of Evocations trying to make something many people could use but nobody ever pays attention. It's a bit depressing.

>> No.40327263

>>40327224
>It's a bit depressing.
At least you can feel content in the fact that people don't care about homebrew charms or evocations in general, rather than finding yours particularly shitty.

>> No.40327320

>>40327174
>>40327224
>>40327093

99% of homebrew exists to facilitate the homebrewer's specific character vision. That's why most people don't care. It's not something they'll use, it's not something their characters will ever be interested in, so they have no motivation to comment on it. When you want your work to get replies, you have to design for more than just yourself. My first ever bit of public homebrew years ago got a lot of replies on rpg.net, and one of the ideas later became a canon Charm. But my biggest homebrew project ever got pretty much no replies because I wrote it as a personal pet project of shit I was interested in.

And I'm OK with that.

>> No.40327364

>>40327320

See, that's not how most brewers build though. The stuff they make has a particular aim, but it's not built specifically for only one character. When I built a sword that toyed with Limit mechanics, that was me exploring the system, not just doing something for one toon. So it's baffling that people assume the homebrew is specific instead of generic when it goes beyond system changes.

>> No.40327410

You never know when someone's character concept might benefit from a charm you made for yourself. I'm interested in seeing other people's work, hell somebody could make a google doc out of it like that one guy did with shaping rituals, or someone did with evocations (which I sadly lost the link to).

>> No.40327436

>>40327320
This. That's the reason why people find the homebrew Projects system interesting and worth commenting on, but none of the homebrew evocations we've seen.

>>40327364
>See, that's not how most brewers build though. The stuff they make has a particular aim, but it's not built specifically for only one character. When I built a sword that toyed with Limit mechanics, that was me exploring the system, not just doing something for one toon. So it's baffling that people assume the homebrew is specific instead of generic when it goes beyond system changes.
That's not how it comes across to the audience. They see specific evocations for a specific weapon which they never intend to use. They absolutely do not see utilities mapping out future courses for their own homebrewing, generic tools to be used as they please.

>toon
Don't.

>> No.40327475

>>40327410
If I ever start up 3e homebrew, I'll make a Google doc and link it here. Right now all I've got is my old compendium of Theion Charms up on the googles.

>> No.40327502

>>40327436

Then they're kind of dumbos, because the brewer's work is absolutely no different from the work that is gonna go into the artifact book. It's not like they're giving you 'generic' artifacts either. The evocations are tooled around a specific idea, to get a specific result after all. And don't get frazzled by what people call their characters, it's a free world man.

>> No.40327559

>>40327224
I only did one evocation tree, and it was kinda bad. I really want to do more, though.

>> No.40327614

>>40327559

Post ideas, anon! The brewer's community in this thread might be tiny but we're happy to help each other. More homebrew can only be a good thing once it's polished up.

>> No.40327627

>>40327502
>It's not like they're giving you 'generic' artifacts either.
Welcome to the primary criticism of that upcoming book - that it's going to be a catalog of specific artifacts rather than a generic toolkit for making your own.

Also, see above, where people are equally unwilling to discuss the Dawn Fangs.

This is all pretty much case in point. Maybe they're dumb dumbs who don't realize what they're missing, but that doesn't change the fact. People don't give a shit about specific content unless it provides specific options which they, personally, want to use with their character. That's why a homebrew Projects system, or generic Shaping Rituals which grant mortals access to martial arts, get attention, while specific artifacts made for whatever character that homebrew is currently thinking about playing do not.

>> No.40327804

>>40327614
I've been absently working, in my head, on a set of evocations for a pair of orichalcum smashfists my Solar uses. The basic idea is that you generate energy with attacks, and as you do so the gauntlets glow brighter and brighter, and you can spend the charge on various things like shockwaves, blinding flashes, and at the highest end a sort of nuclear punch.

>> No.40327846

>>40327804
You thinking of basing them on something like White Reaper's halos, or Steel Devil's off-hand charge?

>> No.40327906
File: 296 KB, 1280x1024, 699177-wall_tagar_1280.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
40327906

>>40327804

Gee, who does this remind me of...this wouldn't happen to be the user's theme tune, would it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlIjrlKIVqg

>> No.40327931

>>40327846
I'm not sure, really. I haven't put much into the mechanical framework yet, just been working on the concept in the back of my mind. I've always liked big, explosive hits, shiny things, and punching the shit out of everything. So a pair of gauntlets that explode what they hit and blind people are right up my alley.

>>40327906
Haha. When I was thinking of it, I actually had a variety of Super Robots in mind, since they often have glowing hands and rocket punches and the like. Also that one chick from RWYB.

>> No.40327948

>>40327906
Oh look, it's the Big O.

>> No.40328003
File: 132 KB, 569x569, SR-icon-weapon-DaedricBattleaxe.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
40328003

>>40327614
Well, here's what I did. Last time I posted this, I got some good feedback. I'm halfway through adding fluff to the charms, though I've always had a rough idea what that fluff would be. On a related note, someone remind me what sorts of evocations Abyssals can use?
http://pastebin.com/iRJnSxYZ

As for other ideas, I thought of some. One was a pair of short diaklaves based on mirrors - lower level evocations would let you blind your opponent, while higher level one would let you throw attacks back at your opponent or attack twice at once or copy some sort of scenelong charm/spell your opponent had, like Ascendent Battle Visage. Another was a white jade artifact based on partially petrifying opponents, slowing them down.

>> No.40328071

>>40327931
>I've always liked big, explosive hits, shiny things, and punching the shit out of everything.
I made a scene-long Sledgehammer Fist Punch a thread or two ago, just so I could punch through pillars with a missed attack. I know the feeling. I was actually trying to create a Brawl charmset to properly convey the crazy power level anime stuff where their strikes left craters in the ground and such, but I didn't have enough mechanical ideas to really flesh it out.

Something like offhand charge or any other kind of 'super meter' works though, you just need to decide what it should be keyed to.

>> No.40328085

>>40327627
On a side-note, I love how we can predict the main criticism and communicate it crystal clear to the devs and yet they will do NOTHING to take this criticism into account and will go out of their way to not give people acually what they want.

And then they will unironically claim that they want to give people the game they deserve. You know, there's something about those SJW parallels that strikes surprisingly close to home.

>> No.40328118

Here's a quick question:

What do people think of a permanent evocation for a Smashfist that makes it count as Heavy? Unlocking Sapphire tier allows for repurchase as innate.

>> No.40328157

>>40328071
Brawl is hands down my favorite of the combat trees for that reason. I love unarmed combat in video games and anime. The wild strikes, the glowing fists, the craters. Smashing through things and demolishing them. I'd like it more if the hadoken Charm didn't eat anima so I could toss more fireballs, but other than that, it's pretty good.

Also thinking of how to make a proper Shoryuken in Brawl. I think it'd be a high-risk, high-reward gamble, where if you succeed on it your damage is boosted and you're resistant to attacks, but if you lose on the clash you're especially vulnerable.

>>40328118
Doable but smashfists are better off as Light. Light is, by far, the best category for artifacts. You'd be making it weaker.

>> No.40328175

>>40328118
Why would that ever be an evocation? Just get a pair of smashfists each with knuckles the size of a small anvil which use the Heavy stats, but the normal tags. You're paying 10 xp for something that should have been free.

>> No.40328239

>>40328157
>Light is, by far, the best category for artifacts.
Eh, debatable. Archery and Thrown weapons are best as heavy as you can get them, and Light Melee is really good against Exalts and other foes with really high DVs, while Heavy Melee is a lot better if you're trying to lay the hurt on a foe with lots of soak but less defense, like a Behemoth.

For Brawl, though, yes, Light is always better. With how loaded Brawl is with onslaught-based damage boosters, both withering and decisive flurries, and so forth, you want accuracy. The onslaught will take care of the rest.

>> No.40328275

>>40328003

I remember this one. I did a bunch of criticism for it! Round 2 now, let's go.

-There's no such thing as perfect attacks or defenses in Ex3rd. Just 'unblockable and undodgeable' and the verbiage of SSE.

-Difficulty 2 is super low for a bigass debuff with a duration of 'yes or until you self-stun'. I'd push it up to Diff 4. I'd also make the gambit be unblockable and undodgeable and nothing more. The init roll should still be a thing, particularly considering how easy it is for you to get Gore from a target on the cheap with the preceding evocations.

-Holding feels like it could use more spice. 'This charm does a passive buff' is pretty boring as a rule. Give it something more to do. I can post an example evocation that does a similar thing but adds a new option on top if you'd like. Possibly combine with Harvesting?

-Tearing is lacking a mote cost. Probably should be low, 1 or 2 motes. I'd err towards 1 because wound penalties can be ignored by so many charms.

-Attack rolls already have double 10s. Did you mean Double 9s, or decisive damage rolls?

Thsoe mirrorklaves sound good, BTW. Work on them! The White Jade arti is a bit vague, but also could be great, just needs defining.

>> No.40328278

>>40328157
>>40328175
Yeah, I figured it was underpowered. The real value is making something small count as 'heavy'. My character's a big heavy bruiser and I'm okay with him not being able to pin down a serious combatant until he or someone else applies some onslaught.

Also it's actually on Wood Dragon's Claw. Innate applies it to fists.

>> No.40328311

>>40328239
The damage difference between Heavy and Light really isn't significant, especially when you factor in extra successes from the boosted Accuracy.

I wasn't speaking of ranged weapons, though, in which case you're entirely correct. Since their stat lines are different it's okay to change. The bigger ranged weapons tend to have superior ranges.

>> No.40328317

>>40328157
>I'd like it more if the hadoken Charm didn't eat anima so I could toss more fireballs, but other than that, it's pretty good.

I actually did a couple of anima banner manipulation charms a while ago, they were modelled as evocations but that's mostly because I had no idea where else to put them. Let me know if you're interested.

>> No.40328335

>>40328003
>http://pastebin.com/iRJnSxYZ
I was reading Chop and had to consider the double 10s. I would mention that it only applies on a decisive attack (as double 10s already occurs with withering)

>> No.40328418

>>40328278
You can still play the bruiser with a light weapon. My Dawn's Str/Dex/Sta 5, and I stunt most of his shit as individual heavy strikes rather than ATATATATATATA flurries.

>>40328317
I saw those. Brawl actually has a way to do it already with the E5 capstone that makes you go all Satsui no Hado, since it keeps your anima from expiring and lets you constantly fire off shots without end.

Ahh, Apocalypse Flare Attack. How cool you are. Even if you seem a little weak to my eyes.

>> No.40328588

>>40328418
I fucking love brawl, I can't wait to actually play a game of EX3 so I can Supernal Brawl Dawn and have fun.

>> No.40328636

>>40327627
Actually, I've been assessing the Dawn Fangs.

As far as I can tell, the primary utility comes with Leaping Tiger's Bite, which is amazing just for the sheer cheap ease with which it generates even more attacks.

Unfortunately, it suffers from the fact that all of its non-basic Evocations require two other Evocations as prerequisites, and its Decisive-affecting Evocations being...unimpressive.

On the other hand, the withering Evocations are fucking amazing. DSS and SBPL mean you will absolutely MURDERTRAIN an opponent, and Foe-Staggering Frenzy is without a doubt the most powerful Evocation the artifact has.

As such, if I had to choose a build including it, I'd present two options. The minor investment, and the major investment.

Minor: Relentless Killing Claws, Raging Fang Offensive, Leaping Tiger's Bite

Major: As above, but with the addition of Stalking Jaguar Strike to fulfill the prerequisites, then going straight into SBPL, DSS, and FSS.

And yes, that means I'm recommending you ignore the Adamant Evocation. Not only does it require taking every single other Evocation, it's merely a damage booster.

>> No.40328644

>>40328588
I'm playing a social character and only have a few Brawl charms. It grates at me. I feel like I should have so many more.

>> No.40328701

Way back in 2e, was there a reason to take one perfect defense over the other or were they all basically interchangeable.

>> No.40328709

>>40328636
Why it synergizes well with Brawl is because DF is good for boosting withering while Brawl can give good decisives.

>> No.40328759

>>40328701
Step, cost, flaw, and dodge/parry.

>> No.40328792

>>40328701
Dodge & Parry were more or less interchangeable, but you'd always want a perfect soak in addition.

>> No.40328798

>>40328701
For Solars not really. Take SSE and Conviction Flaw.

For Infernals, Malfeas if you intended to stay in ities, Kimbery if you were playing in The West, Adorjan any other time. 2.5 you could take Swillin because the 2.5 Twilight anima meant you never paid the surcharge

>> No.40328834

>>40328636
So Ox-Stunning Blow X2, Leaping Tiger's Bite and Heaven Fury Smite followed by Heaven Thunder Hammer.

Is this actually a legitimate combo? Never mind how effective it is, I just need to know if I've misread something at some point.

>> No.40328882

>>40328834
And shit, why not add Lightning Strikes Twice while I'm wish-listing?

>> No.40329042

>>40328834
You have to get onslaught at or over 3 with the attack to activate LTB, so you'll need to be using RKC/FHS (of course) and RFO for at least one attack in order to start the reaction after just two attacks.

After that, the combo's possible. You'll need to crash the opponent with it in order to activate HFS, though. Also, that sort of combo would require a fuckton of charms as prerequisites.

Also also, I wouldn't start it with two OSBs, simply because it would cost too much WP. And because DSS is so much better than OSB.

>> No.40329118

>>40329042
Sorry, I should have clarified that it's two purchases of Ox-Stunning Blow. Thanks for reading over the charms though. An as for the number of charms? Yeah, it's pure wish-listing. I love the mental image though.

>> No.40329204

>>40329118
Oh, then the combo as listed wouldn't work. The target would need to be at an onslaught penalty of at least 1 already, and OSB's penalty isn't an onslaught penalty.

>> No.40329874

>>40328636
>Unfortunately, it suffers from the fact that all of its non-basic Evocations require two other Evocations as prerequisites, and its Decisive-affecting Evocations being...unimpressive.
>On the other hand, the withering Evocations are fucking amazing. DSS and SBPL mean you will absolutely MURDERTRAIN an opponent, and Foe-Staggering Frenzy is without a doubt the most powerful Evocation the artifact has.
Isn't the main problem with Brawl that it's mostly decisive and has no good withering charms? How well would this work with, say, Tiger or Ebon Shadow?

>> No.40329965

>>40329874
>Isn't the main problem with Brawl that it's mostly decisive and has no good withering charms?
No, the problem with Brawl is that it's glass cannon as fuck. You can consistently dish out tons of Decisive damage at relatively low Initiative, but that means you'll frequently be at base (3) Initiative a lot of the time instead of spending most of the fight just trying to build your initiative up. Which means you're super susceptible to crashing.

It has plenty of good Withering effects. They're just mostly Perilous and mostly irrelevant, since the only time Brawl wants to bother Withering is if it's building up for a grapple or trying to escape a Crash..

>> No.40330000

>>40329965

Brawl isn't that fragile if you got Wind And Stones Defense. It's trivial to achieve a nigh permanent full ex with it.

>> No.40330040

>>40329874
Brawl does just fine with Withering attacks. It's very high damage and debilitates enemies. Brawl's main weakness is that it has no useful AoE like Melee and other than Clashes it has little to reliably boost defense. Wind And Stones is OK but quite situational.

>> No.40330044

>>40329874
I would've said that the main problem with Brawl is that its defensive charms are lacklustre at best, since onslaught covers withering attacks fairly well.

Regardless, I'll take a look.

>> No.40330101

>>40330000
It's not about it having a poor Defense. It's that the correct way to play Brawl means you're almost constantly at Initiative 3, because you can Decisive more or less non-stop. Once an attack inevitably hits you sooner or later, you crash and have no really good non-Perilous Withering charms to escape from the crash.

That's what makes Brawl a high-risk, high-reward style. You can kick out an unbelievable amount of Decisive damage pretty damn consistently, but because you're launching Decisive attacks so often, your Initiative tends to stabilize more or less permanently at 3.

>> No.40330109

I'm kind of excited to see what the other exalts brawl trees are like. Especially Dragonbloods since they said they were going to be adding in more elemental effects and shit.

I guess we will find out in 2020 when the dragonblood book is leaked.

>> No.40330156

>>40330101

See though, once you get the Onslaught train rolling you WANT to hover around the crash zone because it gives you more init to steal off the fucker you're gonna hit on 1 sux, and a chance to init shift him. The ability to get four turns in a row is fight-ending.

>> No.40330162

>>40330109
The devs explicitly stated that they're going to be adding a lot more Avatar the Last Airbender inspired stuff to the Dragon-blooded in this edition, and Terrestrial Hero Style was all about grappling, so Brawl should hopefully be fucking amazing. Expect it to literally involve encasing people in self-sustaining clinches made of ice, for example, just like they could in 2e.

>> No.40330228

>>40330162
Based on how long it's taking them to get the core book out, I don't expect to see it before 2018 though.
Which is a shame, I want more Avatar type dragonbloods.

>> No.40330293

>>40330109
I don't give a shit about DB Brawl. All I want is for DB Melee to not be fucking horrible this time around.

>> No.40330325

>>40330228

You are vastly underestimating how much effort a core book takes relative to splatbooks.

The time it takes to make a book and do it well increases exponentially with page length, not linearly, and corebooks are another factor of 3 on top, easy, because you're laying the foundation rather than just building on top of it.

Between being less than half as long (500 pages vs. 200) and having all the hard stuff out of the way, I'd say DBs will take about one fifth as much actual man-hours of devtime, tops.

>> No.40330357

>>40330325
So what your'e saying is that is should be out by 2017?

>> No.40330364

>>40330325
>I'd say DBs will take about one fifth as much actual man-hours of devtime, tops
Not to mention a fraction of as many art commissions and layout time.

>> No.40330433

>>40330293
I want DB Melee to feature a non-shit Glorious Solar Saber equivalent where you make a weapon out of a stream of fire/ice/whatever.

>> No.40330478

>>40330325
I think I wasn't the only one underestimating how much effort a core book would take.

Just based on their Dec 2013 estimate.

>> No.40330612

>>40330478

No, yeah, don't get me wrong. The team completely overestimated their ability in regards to that.

Just that the only real difficulty the DB book faces, in terms of "this could fuck up the entirety of the line if we do it wrong" is in setting the lower-end bar for Charms.

"But Raksha and Exigents can be weaker" "Yeah but literally nobody is going to play a splat weaker than DBs"

>> No.40330647

>>40330478
>I think I wasn't the only one underestimating how much effort a core book would take.
To be fair, they lost six months of work by restarting part way through their first draft and lost another who-knows-how-many months to Morke's health crisis. We probably would have had the book a year ago if it weren't for those two things - still many months late, but not the sad joke it is now.

>> No.40330662

>>40330044
Following up on this.

Seems to work fine with Tiger. Doesn't interact with the grapple charms, but they mostly don't overlap. Tiger doesn't really have anything in the way of defensive charms, so eh.

Ebon Shadow doesn't really synergize at all, since it's all about instant murder from Stealth instead of being an onslaught murdertrain.

>> No.40330693

>>40330647
It's honestly kind of put me off wanting to kickstart the rest of the books when they put them up.

Which is a shame, because I fucking love exalted.

>> No.40330700

>>40330662
>Seems to work fine with Tiger
Because they were plainly intended for use with Tiger.

>> No.40330743

>>40330693
>It's honestly kind of put me off wanting to kickstart the rest of the books when they put them up.
I honestly don't give a fuck. The kickstarter wasn't even for the book itself, it was for them including a Deluxe edition once the book was finally done. Their expected release date was never a promise of delivery, it was a ballpark guess as to when they thought the ruleset might be done.

And before they scrapped their entire first draft and Morke took a turn for the worse, that really was when it was going to be done.

The only people complaining about backing their kickstarter are people who don't realize that the kickstarter wasn't even for the game itself - just a deluxe hardcover being sold as an optional edition.

>> No.40330803

>>40330700
Yes, obviously. And yet there were no obvious synergies with Tiger Style, so I said that they work fine. They're just focused on different things.

>> No.40331289

>>40324892
Someday I'm going to run a game where the PCs are a team of Solars that have to save Gem from a series of apocalypses, Monster of the Week style.

Just as soon as I have any players.

>> No.40331314

>>40331289
Can we be teenagers with attitude?

>> No.40331318

>>40331289

Post ad here, collect players. The whole thread is hungry for campaigns.

>> No.40331463

>>40328798
What was the interaction between the twilight (and presumably, defiler) anima and Swillin's perfect?

>> No.40331535

>>40331463
>What was the interaction between the twilight (and presumably, defiler) anima and Swillin's perfect?
You could automatically identify charms being used, so you didn't have to pay the 'unknown charm or combo' surcharge.

>> No.40331576

>>40331289
>"After ten thousand years, I'm free! It's time to conquer Creation!"
>"Autocthon! Ebon Dragon's escaping! Recruit a team of mortals with excellence!"
>GO GO SOLAR EXALTED

>> No.40331619

>>40331576
I've been binging toku recently, so I would be super hype to play something like that.

>> No.40331620

>>40331289
I'm currently running a game in Gem. I'll probably steal this idea.

>> No.40331628

>>40331576
Yeah, nah, if you're going full Sentai, you have to go Dragon-blooded.

>> No.40331660

>>40331628
>"After ten thousand years, we're free! It's time to conquer Creation!"
>"Empress, the Solars are escaping! Recruit a team of Dynasts with intimacies!"

>> No.40331745
File: 490 KB, 900x611, Dragon-blooded of Each Caste.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
40331745

>>40331660
That's more like it, yeah. A Dragon-blooded Sword Brotherhood is a color-coded Sentai team, and the Solar/Lunar Anathema are the Kaijin they have to deal with on a weekly basis, along with all kinds of other single-arc weirdos. You have Black, White, Red, Green, and Blue rangers.

This was an intentional design choice, not something that the fans latched onto out of nowhere.

>> No.40331771

>>40331745
>Sword Brotherhood
Sworn Brotherhood, rather.

>> No.40331818

>>40331628
I'd much rather play a Kamen Rider team up of 3E Solars than a Sentai Team of 2e Dragonbloods, but that's just me.

>> No.40331835

>>40331818

The question is, who'd be Kamen Rider Kabuto?

>> No.40331845

>>40331745
>Dragon-blooded Sword Brotherhood is a color-coded Sentai team
>Black, White, Red, Green, and Blue rangers
Also, by their powers combined, they can form captain planet. They have earth, wind, water, fire, and even heart (wood).

I'm really hoping they have a Teamwork charm in 3e for a Dragon-blooded team to either make a team avatar or fuse into one being.

>> No.40331864

>>40331835
The gods of insects made a bunch of exigents.

>> No.40331880

>>40331864
And then that one god of fruit made Gaim.

>> No.40332108

>>40331845
They'd also need a Warstrider each, which can then combine to form a much larger Warstrider able to fight Wyld Behemoths in hand-to-hand combat.

>> No.40332143

>>40332108
Fuck. Yes. Their Captain Planet charm would, when used in a Warstrider, cause the Warstriders to form into a mega-strider, the same way the DBs fuse into a mega-Exalt.

On a related note, that's how you make mixed-splat games with a DB work. You play an entire Sworn Brotherhood permanently fused into a single super-Terrestrial. Teamwork this, motherfucker.

>> No.40332440

>>40331289
I feel like everyone (myself included) who focuses on Gem does that.

>> No.40332499

>>40331289
This thread is full of people who want to play.
Myself included
I just want to play 3e dammit.

>> No.40332517

Maybe it's just because I'm still kind of green when it comes to Ex3 (and mixing charms in general), but on my first reading, I've gotten the impression that Martial Arts aren't terribly competitive with the other combat abilities, especially since Martial Arts charms aren't compatible with Brawl.

Am I mistaken? Are Martial Arts actually significantly better than I'm seeing?

>> No.40332556

>>40332517
MA is fine, but they're all specific purpose tools, rather than generalized combat styles. They're competitive within their territory.

>> No.40332594

>>40332517

Martial Arts are predominantly supplementary, either aiding a noncombat character or granting some noncombat effects to a wombat, rather than being the core of a combat wombat. That's why they come out of your supplementary XP.

That said, they get access to effects that would make other combat abilities jealous (Shining Point's "I'm two people now, motherfucker" Form)

>> No.40332726

>>40332556
>>40332594
So what I'm hearing is that Martial Arts are good for a number of things, but playing a character with Martial Arts as their primary combat ability is a dumb thing.

That sound about right?

>> No.40332740

Semi-threadly reminder that the finished PDF will never be released.

>> No.40332750
File: 82 KB, 482x571, kamenriderheaddancercot.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
40332750

>>40331818
Previously normal people who, given extraordinary powers after being experimented on by an evil organization, later escape and use their powers against the very organization that empowered them.

Maybe some Heisei Kamen Riders would work as Solars, but Showa Riders are definitely Green Sun Princes. Just add Veridiant Legend Exoskeleton!

>> No.40332805

>>40332726

No. A primarily noncombat character who picks up a single martial art as their sole/primary combat ability is a smart thing. As is a primarily combat character who picks up a single martial art as a means of getting noncombat effects through a combat ability.

It's the primarily combat character who tries to master 5 different martial arts as their sole/primary combat ability that's kind of in a shit position.

>> No.40332837

>>40332726
It's not dumb, it's just not optimal.

>> No.40332840

>>40332143

>You play an entire Sworn Brotherhood permanently fused into a single super-Terrestrial.

It's a shame that they can't use Unity of the Closed Fist.

>> No.40332866

>>40332726
No, that isn't what I said nor is it something I would say. My words were "MA is fine, but they're all specific purpose tools, rather than generalized combat styles."

>> No.40332897

>>40332726
Playing a Dawn with Martial Arts as their primary combat ability is dumb.

Playing a non-combat-focused character with Martial Arts as their primary combat ability is brilliant, though. See, you can invest Solar XP in Martial Arts charms. That means that, say, a social-focused exalt can invest fake xp in Martial Arts instead of having to invest their real, Solar Charm XP into it.

That said, Martial Arts are most about providing specialist utilities that synergize with other abilities. The Ebon Shadow stylist really wants to be a Stealth Supernal Night, for example. The Presence expert really benefits from Black Claw - and so forth.

>> No.40332956

>>40332726

It's not something you should take as a Supernal, you use it to supplement other abilities. Ebon Shadow for Stealth, Nightingale for Performance, Presence for Crane. There are also specific themes that MA is good for, such as Steel Devil being good for hitting a large number of times, Single Point allowing you to attack twice in one turn, and White Reaper enabling you to fight large armies with ease.

But mostly, you take MA because combat isn't you're primary focus and you want something to spend your Solar XP on.

>> No.40333033

>>40332956
You could use it if you want to focus on combat without completely overshadowing the rest of the party.

>> No.40333049

>>40332897
>See, you can invest Solar XP in Martial Arts charms.
>>40332956
>But mostly, you take MA because combat isn't you're primary focus and you want something to spend your Solar XP on.

Not the guy asking the questions, but you can already do that with Evocations, without having to buy a 4 dot merit and an entirely new ability up to five, though.

>> No.40333077

>>40333049
There really isn't a set of evocations identical to any MAs.

>> No.40333080

>>40333049

The difference is, Emerald Evocations are Terrestrial-tier Charms, and Sapphire Evocations are Celestial-tier Charms.

Martial Arts are your tier from the beginning, and tend to be a little strong for your tier on top.

>> No.40333128

>>40332805
Your final point is more in line with what I was trying to say: that using Martial Arts as a primary combat ability is a bad idea... for someone (like a Dawn) who expects fighting to be a big deal for them. Neglected to specify that latter part.

>>40332897
>>40332956
The Solar XP point is an excellent one that I neglected to consider.

Thanks for the input.

I'm mostly trying to figure out whether or not I can get away with Martial Arts as a primary combat ability in a one-on-one game that will inevitably feature a significant (though not necessarily massive) amount of combat.
Seems like kind of a borderline case, from what I'm hearing.

>> No.40333131

Is setting the Yozis free objectively evil?

>> No.40333151

>>40333049
Yes, and? You can't teach Evocations to your God-blooded and Dragon-blooded followers, and you have to buy Emerald evocations straight from the get go. On top of that, you're not going to find weapon evocations that go with Presence as well as Black Claw Style does, and will have to bring out your obvious artifact to use them too.

Don't get me wrong, Evocations can be a useful investment. But they have different considerations from Martial Arts as your combat style.

And, when all else fails, you could always have both. There's a good chance you'll run out of Essence 1 Evocations before you hit Essence 2, and vice versa. Combining a Martial Art with an Evocation tree is a very effective use of Solar XP for a non-Dawn.

>> No.40333152

>>40333131
no

>> No.40333158

>>40333128
>I'm mostly trying to figure out whether or not I can get away with Martial Arts as a primary combat ability in a one-on-one game that will inevitably feature a significant (though not necessarily massive) amount of combat.
I'm playing a Dawn with supernal MA that uses nothing else, unless you're fighting other, optimised Solars you'll be fine. Don't worry about the min-maxers here.

>> No.40333185

>>40333131
There's no such thing as objectively evil, but setting the Yozis free would do nothing but cause every living person immense suffering, including yourself.

>> No.40333201

>>40333128
>I'm mostly trying to figure out whether or not I can get away with Martial Arts as a primary combat ability in a one-on-one game that will inevitably feature a significant (though not necessarily massive) amount of combat.
The answer is that you can, but only if you're taking another Ability useful in combat as your Supernal. For example, heavily investing in Dodge or Stealth as a combat Night, mixed with one or more martial arts that can exploit that.

And THAT said, there's also the fact that even in a game that features significant combat, 90% of combats can be solved with an excellency alone. You aren't going to fight exalt-tier foes that often, so you don't have to worry that much.

Just do whatever's fun and talk to your ST if you're getting your ass raped, same as any other game.

>> No.40333230

>>40333185
>cause every living person immense suffering
sounds pretty close to objectively evil to me

>> No.40333263

>>40333131

There is nothing the Yozi do without malice.

>> No.40333288

>>40333230
Well, the Yozis would be having a WONDERFUL time.

>> No.40333316

>>40333263
No, Hell *does* have precisely two things without malice and that is dancing and music.

>> No.40333341

>>40333263
I think Adorjan totally wants to help the people she kills. No malice there at all.

>> No.40333360

>>40333230
It's nowhere near close! Why is it evil to hurt people? Well, because we personally think so.

That's the thing about objective evil: it doesn't exist.

>> No.40333417

>>40333158
>>40333201
Hm. How essential is it to have a combat-related supernal in a game where you'll sometimes -- even if not often -- be fighting exalts all on your lonesome?

>> No.40333436

>>40333417
Not remotely essential because it's a one on one game and the ST will be catering the entire world to you. He's not going to go "haha this faggot picked MA, time to drop an E5 Dawn on him with 600xp"

>> No.40333447

>>40333077
>There really isn't a set of evocations identical to any MAs.
Evocations are expressly a "homebrew it yourself" thing, you could totally have an Evocation tree similar to a martial art.

>>40333080
>The difference is, Emerald Evocations are Terrestrial-tier Charms, and Sapphire Evocations are Celestial-tier Charms.
It doesn't say that anywhere, in fact, Relentless Killing Claws is a strict upgrade of a Solar Brawl charm, and is an essence 1 Emerald Evocation. Specifically "This Evocation functions exactly as Falling Hammer Strike (p. XX), save
that it may be used to enhance both Brawl and Martial Arts-based attacks.", same mote cost, too.

>>40333151
>Yes, and? You can't teach Evocations to your God-blooded and Dragon-blooded followers
They can buy Evocations, too. Your other points were tackled above.

>> No.40333470

>>40333447
If your ST lets you rip off an MA with a set of Evocations, your ST is silly, but hey, have fun with it.

>> No.40333503

>>40333470
The book literally has evocations that are copies of Solar charms, and I wasn't even advocating direct copying.

>> No.40333527

>>40333436
Excellent point.

Okay. Thank you all for your input!

Glad to know that Martial Arts isn't lousy, but simply occupies an appropriately-nuanced place in the game.

>> No.40333570

Will Sidereal Martial arts ever be both appropriate for Solaroid level combat while also being not broken? Because it's either a bunch of bells and whistles that don't do much except win-more, or utterly broken.

>> No.40333614

>>40333570
I honestly doubt Sidereal Martial Arts are even going to be a thing in this edition. They're probably just going to add a Sidereal tag on top of the Mastery and Celestial tags.

>> No.40333618

>>40333503
It has copies of minor Solar Charms in appropriate places, there's no set of Evocations that's like a tiny Solar tree or anything.

>> No.40333664

>>40333614

Ewww. Martial Arts are 90% of what makes Sidereals imo.

>> No.40333698

>>40333570

SMA styles are only going to cap out at Ess 5, so you won't have styles that start at Ess 7 again.

>>40333614

Devs say that they will be. They've stated that they'd like to see Prismatic Arrangment of Creation and Borders of Kaleidoscopic Logic making a return.

>> No.40333713

>>40333614
SMA is mentioned in three places. It comes up twice in Chapter One and the text for Selfsame Master Instructor says "The Lawgiver may not teach Sidereal Martial Arts."

>> No.40333721

>>40333664
I disagree, but even if I didn't, 90% of PC Sidereals were WAY too low-essence to access SMAs anyway. With how they've removed the TMA/CMA distinction in favor of the Celestial and Mastery keywords, it makes far more sense to just give Sidereals their own keyword and let them just use martial arts the best.

>> No.40333767

SMA is apparently going to be a thing distinct from other supernatural martial arts. Do you suppose they'll have a tag like "Mastery" that makes their charms better for Sidereals than Solaroids?

>> No.40333778

>>40333618
>It has copies of minor Solar Charms in appropriate places, there's no set of Evocations that's like a tiny Solar tree or anything.
That was a rebuttal to "Emerald Evocations are Terrestrial-tier charms", and thoroughly proved that wrong. And I never said to straight up copy charm trees, just that you can get something similar to your martial art of choice just by buying Evocations, and skipping the Merit cost, and your charms are more personalized AND can be used with native charms as well.

>> No.40333810

>>40333767

In 2e the Sidereals had Sutra that reduced the cost of the charms. That'll likely make a return.

>> No.40333823

>>40333767
>Do you suppose they'll have a tag like "Mastery" that makes their charms better for Sidereals than Solaroids?
I don't see why they would. Based on the Martial Arts chapter, Sidereals only get the equivalent to Mastery if they jump through some hoops that Solars don't have to bother with. They probably have to use prayer strips, where Solars can just do it automatically.

So no, I don't think that Sidereals will actually be any better at using SMAs than Solars are. I think the only distinction will be that they can teach them, while Solars can only learn.

>> No.40333926

>>40333778
I didn't say anything about Emerald Evocations being like Terrestrial Charms. What I said is that no ST should let you design some evocations that just copy an MA.

>> No.40333991

>>40333926
>I didn't say anything about Emerald Evocations being like Terrestrial Charms.
I didn't say you did. I said your quote was a rebuttal of someone else saying that. And again, I specifically did NOT say just get copies of MA charms.

>> No.40334019

>>40333991
When I say "Evocations don't do what MAs do" and you reply "you could make evocations similar to an MA", it is a perfectly reasonable conclusion that you're gunning to copy MA Charms. That's literally the only interpretation that makes sense in that context.

>> No.40334065

>>40334019
>it is a perfectly reasonable conclusion that you're gunning to copy MA Charms.
It would be, if I didn't say, and I quote, "similar to" and later "I wasn't even advocating direct copying."

>> No.40334110

>>40334065
If it's insufficiently similar to then as a response it makes no sense to say it when I say "but evocations don't do what MAs do".

Either it's close enough to be a copy or it's a pointless retort.

>> No.40334168

>>40334110
Listen, if I want to have charms that help me talk my way out of combat, there are more ways to do that than just Crane style covers, and if I want to wield two swords, there are more ways to handle that than the mechanics of Steel Devil style. That's what I mean.

>> No.40334219

>>40334168
What?

>> No.40334275

>>40334219
What do you mean, what? Are trying to say that there is no other mechanical way to handle wielding two swords other than Steel Devil style? Because if there is, then you totally CAN do what MAs do without straight up copying printed charms.

>> No.40334325

>>40334275
Do you think that Crane Style is about talking your way out of combat? ...have you actually read the martial arts?

>> No.40334344

>>40334325
>Crane style is a defensive style, emulating the grace of the crane in avoiding the blows of an
enemy. Its student learns not just to fight with physical blows, but to empathize with her enemy,
speaking or debating with him in an attempt to bring the fight to an end without violence.

Have you?

>> No.40334359

>>40334344
So no, you haven't then, just the introductory fluff instead of any of the charms.

>> No.40334408

>>40334359
Ok, I guess there is no point to speaking to you, then, if the "point" of a martial art is the exact wording of the charm's mechanical effects, then yes, you can't base another charm off of that without copying from the charm mechanically. But that is NOT what I'm talking about.

>> No.40334484

>>40334408
The fuck? I'm not even the guy you've been talking to. I didn't jump into the conversation until I saw you say something stupid about Crane Style involving talking.

>> No.40334568

>>40334408
>>40334484

Yeah I stopped talking. You say you didn't mean to use Evocations to copy MAs, okay. Go wild then.

>> No.40334646

>>40334484
Alright, then you'll have to forgive me for mistaking you for the guy I was talking to seconds before you, and who stopped posting exactly when you started. But, there are mulltiple charms that requre speaking

ex "as long as the stunt is based on verbally analyzing the enemy’s fighting style or the conflict as a whole in the style of an illustrative lesson or parable."

in the Martial Art. So yes, it involves talking.

>> No.40334767

>>40334568
And, to further explain my point, you could easily have charms that let you make actual social attacks as counterattacks in my theoretical Crane style descended Evocation tree, which would take the styles fluff themes exactly on point while being a variation on it's mechanics.

>> No.40334813

Has anyone in this thread found a 3e group through 4chan?

>> No.40335504

I'm sure this has come up before, but I've never seen it. What are the must-have starting charms in third edition, if any?

>> No.40335532

>>40335504
The Essence 1, zero-prerequisite charms in whichever things you want to do.

>> No.40336098

>>40318954
>any collection of more than 1 mook
No, im pretty sure the minimum is about 10

>> No.40336378

Are there any non-excel based 3e sheets yet?

Or I am hoping too much?

>> No.40336581

>>40336378

I made one of my own that I can loan out, if you'd like. Make a new thread for it though, not gonna leave it buried in a dead one.

>> No.40336630

>>40336581
This may be too much to ask, but I don't suppose it's a fillable PDF is it?

>> No.40336718

>>40336630

Nope. PDFs have the issue of being noneditable. Since I homebrew heavily, I prefer sheets that can hold all the materials in use. It is however complete with limit, BP/XP allocations, special markings for Supernal/Favored/Caste, and anything else you might want though.

>> No.40336839

>>40336718
Hm. I play online alot, so I need something I can fill in and send to the GM.

I hope MrGone does a 3e sheet soon or something.

>> No.40337000

>>40336839

Couldn't you just pass them a link? It's a googledoc.

>> No.40337207

>>40337000

>>40337192

New thread here.

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