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40311293 No.40311293 [Reply] [Original] [4plebs] [archived.moe]

Okay here's the deal. I missed a session due to being so sick I puked more than I ate. So I missed a session of first edition D&D. While I was gone the new DM had the party encounter rust monsters. The thief (1st edition) and cleric then stripped to loincloths and boxed he two rust monsters to death. The DM rules that since there's no damage listed on its stat block and hat it's antenna are only listed as affecting metal that they did 0 damage and couldn't fight back. I'm trying to convince him that that is utter bullshit and that the cleric and their should have taken acid damage from punching the rust monster (because pic related says that items hitting the rust monster are affected as if they were touched by the antenna). How should I convince him about it and make it so he can't be taken advantage of in later games?

>> No.40311332

His reasoning is "the acid only affects metal".

>> No.40311356

So you're trying to rules lawyer something that you weren't even present for, and on top of that you're actually completely and utterly wrong about it too?

>> No.40311372

Why the fuck are you at the table so soon after being ill?

Intestinal pathogens remain active for days after the symptoms pass. You're going to get everyone sick you stupid fuck.

Stay home.

>> No.40311569

>>40311293
He should have had the rust monsters ignore the players and make a rush for their unattended metal gear.

>> No.40311637

>>40311372
I'm not at the table. I got the story by text. I'm not saying he should re ton the whole thing, just explain how retarded the situation was.
>>40311569
A presently they stashed their metal gear a good 50' away. Rust monsters can only send metal in a 9' area.

>> No.40311665

>>40311637
Then if there was no metal in the area and they were being attacked they should have just run away.

>> No.40311672

>>40311356
It's just that if he can be convinced to let two monsters stand perfectly still and let two players punch them for one damage every round until they die then he can be convinced to let a lot of other shit go by.

>> No.40311682

>>40311672
Well how much HP did these Rust Monsters have?

>> No.40311728
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40311728

>>40311372
>At game.
>I have some extra dice on hand because I GM another game.
>I offer them up so the group can use them.
>Our resident sweaty guy thanks me and tells me he just got over a major diarrheal illness as he grabs a handful of my dice
>mfw

>> No.40311740

Rolled 4, 8, 6, 5, 8 + 5 = 36 (5d8 + 5)

>>40311682
Five hit dice, which means 5d8 each. I'm going to say that they had around 23 hp each from averaging that out but let me roll.

>> No.40312253

Rolled 4, 6, 1, 3, 3 = 17 (5d8)

>>40311740
So 31? I'll roll the other one then.

>> No.40312541

>>40311293
1.) >>40311356 This (It doesn't say that any item hitting the rust monster are affected, only weapons, probably written assuming that the weapons used would be made of metal)
2.) MM is restricted material and is for DM eyes only. I know DMs that would slay you for even looking in the thing if you weren't a DM yourself and if you
3.) If your DM is worth a shit, he will know his stuff when it comes to rulings. The game, how it is run and what occurs is solely HIS discretion, not yours.

There is no instance in any Monster Manual before 3rd edition that gives Rust Monsters actual damage to any attack. They're pretty much there just to fuck up the party's weapons/armor. If the party was able to scout out the rust monsters, stash away their metal shit and then go in and beat the shit out of them because they were smart about it, I see no problem. Rust monsters, at least before 3.5e, have no mention of being able to physically damage players with attacks, leaving them pretty innocuous except for being able to destroy gear, and if your DM decided to rule it that way, (the most logical way to do so) then you need to deal with it. Even if they killed the fucking things, so what? Experience in 1e is gained primarily by accumulating gold pieces, not by killing monsters. Whatever experience the party may have gained is pretty much minuscule compared to the amount they need to level up, and to the amount they would gain from getting gold.

Encounters in AD&D are so radically different from 3.5 that it seems like you're bitching at nothing from someone who knows the game. I'm assuming you're angry because they got "free xp" and bypassed an encounter entirely by going about it cleverly. In AD&D, there is no such thing as encounter balance. Random wilderness encounter tables are a good example of this, and a party of 1st level murderhobos can be TPK'd by getting a Red Dragon on their encounter roll. Notice in the MM, the no. appearing listing.

>> No.40312558

>>40312541
For some creatures, such as kobolds, this number was like, 50-300 or something crazy like that.

AD&D essentially had no rules for building a fair encounter, because it had a completely different style of play back then. It wasn't about building a fair encounter, it was about building a fun, challenging encounter. Sometimes you threw enemies at the party they couldn't possibly have a chance against just to keep them on their toes and make sure they knew that running is ALWAYS an option and is often the smartest option.

So why are you bitching, exactly? It doesn't strike me as taking advantage of the DM when you avoid the consequences of an encounter by using your brain. It might be if the players themselves were metagaming and knew every detail of the rust monster and acted on that OOC information in-character, and in that case, your DM probably should've struck that down during the session, but that doesn't seem to be the case. What it seems like you're complaining about it something that has to do with the way the DM decided to handle that situation, which is quite frankly, not your jurisdiction at all. And so what if your fellow players beat a few rust monsters? If you're actually playing 1e as intended, that victory will in all likelihood be short-lived. You're probably going to get jumped by a bunch of goblins or orcs in the darkest depths of fantasy Vietnam after falling into a pit trap and having your torch blown out, leaving your entire party in a pitch-black nightmare of absolute terror as they're getting gang-raped by a volley of arrows coming from out of nowhere.

And stop rules-lawyering in AD&D, it's about dungeon crawling for the players and rolling on 700 different tables for the DM, not about arguing over whether or not your fighter gets an extra attack or gets a mechanical bonus because of circumstances x, y and z or some shit by-the-book.

>> No.40313200

>>40312558
I'm complaining that the players used OOC knowledge to pummel two creatures to death and the two creatures stood absolutely still and did nothing else except save their tentacles around. And if my DM calculated XP by the amount of gold found then the entire party would have leveled multiple times at the end of the session after they beat a green dragon (mainly due to the thief using a custom sword that did double damage to large creatures and his triple backstab damage thing) and looted 55,000 gold, 40,000 platinum, 71,000 silver, and 12 gems from the dragon's hoard. That's all completely RAW and accurate. We were level 4-5.

>> No.40313276

>>40313200
I think there's more outstanding problems with your campaign if that's the case.

>> No.40313418

>>40313200
If your DM described it by saying "a rust monster" instead of "a brown, insect-like creature on four legs with two long protruding antennae and an even longer tail", then the players were well within their rights to suspect that using metal against it would be bad since it's a RUST monster and apparently their characters know what they are.

>> No.40313425

>>40313200
>>leveled multiple times
Well there is the little rule that says you can only gain one level/session.

But in any case you sound like a cunt. I hope you get kicked from your group.

>> No.40313510

>>40313200
>55,000 gold, 40,000 platinum, 71,000 silver, and 12 gems from the dragon's hoard.
First. A dragon would laugh at level 4-5 PCs before killing them with prismatic spray and his breath weapon, and failing that teleporting out of his lair so that he could wait for them to pass right back out the entrance and incinerate them there.
Second. That amount of money will buy a decent-sized city. Your DM is clearly making everything way too easy.
>leveled multiple times
>That's all completely RAW and accurate
Okay, you're clearly a fucking idiot. Never talk about D&D again.

>> No.40313632

>IIT OP and his GM don't understand the game they're playing

>> No.40313917

I want to DM an AD&D game and haven't for the exact reason that I'm afraid I'll get a player like OP

>> No.40314074

>>40313200
lol RAW

>> No.40314282

>>40313425
Qft

>> No.40314811
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40314811

>>40311293
Old school fag dungeon master here, and I see where the DM is coming from and consider it to be a fine ruling.

The players' plan to beat it to death while stripped of their metal is a good one. It should work, but bear in mind that any noise in a dungeon brings a heightened number of wandering monster checks. It would suck to be 50' away from your armour with a bunch of spear throwing hobgoblins tromping down a corridor to see what the fuck's up with their pet rust monster.

Personally, I'd give the rust monster a single die attack, because that's what every monster did before Greyhawk introduced multi-sided hit dice, attack routines and multi-sided damage dice.

As for the grotesquely large hoard, did your party get it out of the dungeon and back to safety where you can spend it?

I think intelligent play should be well rewarded, and if the party is smart enough to get all that cash out of the dungeon, they deserve to get their two levels minus 1 XP.

>> No.40314932
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40314932

>>40313200
>RAW

>> No.40314944

>>40311293
Well it's pretty retarded to say the damn things just stood there and accepted their fate like a buddhist in the path of a tank, but you are wrong about them taking any damage from hitting it.

I agree with >>40314811 that it should have been given a small attack since it could like hit you with its claws or something.

>> No.40315061
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40315061

>>40314811
>>40314944
>Personally, I'd give the rust monster a single die attack
Rust monsters are basically giant silverfish. It makes sense for them to not have any real self-defense mechanism aside from running the fuck away.

>> No.40315196
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40315196

>>40315061
>Rust monsters are basically giant silverfish. It makes sense for them to not have any real self-defense mechanism aside from running the fuck away.

A very good point. In my mind's eye, though, the feelers are like tentacles (but very much like a lobster's antennae) and it has a very sharp beak. I had a plastic dinosaur toy when I was a wee lad, I'm pretty sure lots of us did and one of them ended up on Gary's table as a rust monster, and it has a beak.

Ecologically speaking, however, it does make much more sense to see a rust monster as a total scavenger, skittish like a coyote.

>> No.40315393

What is RAW?

>> No.40315401

>>40315393
Rule As Written

>> No.40315495

>>40311293
Quick question... are really concerned that he is getting taken advantage of or are you pissed off that you didn't get xp?

>> No.40315521

>>40315495
And before you bitch, yeah 1st edition/ OD&D doesn't work the way newer edition does it sounds like he is pissed about not being their.

>> No.40315565

>>40315393

Jericho.

>> No.40316817

>>40315393
Rules As Written
You aren't actually supposed to play by RAW. Expecially in D&D, in which this explicately stated, and even goes so far as to call it rule 0.

>> No.40316861

>>40311293
I just noticed the rust monster is dissolving the picture frame that its in.

>> No.40318109

>>40311293
Anon already said this, but the only mistake your DM made is not having the rust monsters run away once the cleric started punching, and you're a massive faggot.

>> No.40318232

>>40315061
>Rust monsters are basically giant silverfish
Lepisma colcothar?

>> No.40318240

>>40316861
The old school books had lots of little jokes like that. Also you can see part of the Rot Grub picture below, poor bastard getting his arm dissolved

>> No.40318350

>>40311293

Call me a wuss, but I actually don't like the mental image of two nearly-naked men beating to death a defenseless animal.

Why didn't the Rust beasts run away? Why would they let themselves be beaten to death? Being beaten to death is a fucking terrible way to die.

I don't like it when animals get punished for existing.
I'm sad now.

>> No.40318425
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40318425

>>40313510
It was a green dragon. And green dragons have treasure type H in their hoard (look at pic). Green dragons are weaker than other dragons in later editions, but the only reason we survived is because the thief backstabbed it on surprise with a custom long sword that did double damage to large creatures. Normally that'd be 2-24 damage, but backstabs for a fourth level thief do triple damage so it was 6-72 damage instead. It was killed in one hit.

>> No.40318522
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40318522

>>40313510
Here's the stat block of the green dragon. The thieves special sword is a longsword (apparently you can make backstabs with a longsword). Longswords do 1d12 to large creatures, this one does double damage to large so 2d12. Thief backstab damage triples that so 6d12.

>> No.40318738

>>40313418
Fucking this.

>> No.40318776 [DELETED] 

>>40318425
>2-24 damage

3-24. 3d8

>> No.40318792

>>40318522
>draco chlorinous nauseous respiratorus

heh

>> No.40319440

>>40318425
>>40318522
Okay, that is just weird. I'm guessing your DM only does XP by what you defeat/kill. And that is way too much for a level 4-5 party.

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