/vr/ - Retro Games

>>10211861
Unless you are like 60 or so, I unironically don't know.

If you were there as a kid or even a young adult, you shouldn't have any problem with relative points in the timeline, only with the position of the timeline itself relative to now (if social media "feel old yet" memes don't lie)

And if you weren't there, you shouldn't have problems with it because lumping together time outside your own experience is extremely easy.

>>10211861
>OoT suffered numerous delays because the dev team had to work around cartridge constraints
>FFVII had a smooth and steady year of development thanks to CDs allowing in whatever new ideas people came up with
It's that shrimple.

>>10212006
Final Fantasy also had way, way more staff and was several times more expensive to develop.

>>10212036
It shows, it's a far more impressive game

Tech is so homogenized nowadays, I guess it's hard to believe there was once such a wide range of things on the market. Things like those 2 games and Sonic Adventure all coming out in the span of a couple years, each representing very different tech and design approach, doesn't really happen anymore.

>>10211861
What? A year is not a lot. You're mad... they weren't released exactly simultaneously in the same day? I know rivalries are a thing but I didn't expect to find an even more autistic take on them. Maybe you're retarded?

>>10212089
I'm not mad, I have no rivalry between the two they're both great. I just always thought FF7 was newer than Ocarina for some reason

>>10212091
Why would you think this? ff7 models look like blocky Lego asshole.

>>10212107
looks good to me

>>10212113
>looks good to me

>>10212120
They course corrected in ff8 but it was still a blurry mess. Thank God for emulation.

>>10212120
Uh you only have to see those models for like 80% of the game, maybe quit nitpicking?

>>10212120
Let me guess, you need more?

>>10212120
SOUL

>>10212129
I would have liked something that actually resembled a human hand yes

>>10212120
>actual size in gameplay
mouth breathing nerd

>>10212156
>mouth breathing nerd
Yes you are

>>10212156
Right from the intro when you get off the train, it's obvious that the characters have paintbrush hands.

>>10212160
I don't get it. Why not use the battle models? Resident Evil came out a year earlier and the models didn't look this fucking bad

>>10212202
FF7 had a rushed development cycle, badly coded caused it to use subpar models and needed multiple disks even just to beat OoT to the market by a year.

>>10212160
>actual size when viewed across a living room (with family & friends)
>shitty pc version

Test

Artificial discussion by Zoomers - The Thread

>>10212217
>cope

>>10212254

>>10212261

>>10212273
Was this posted by the FFVII graphics defender or critic? It's tough to tell because the blocky arms are less obvious but the models still look like shit.

>>10212278
It all looks like shit to me

>>10212048
Le huh? I admit we never owned it back in the day but my Switch version with enhanced graphics and fastforward option begs to differ.

>>10212210
>OoT was actually delayed because Miyamoto didn't want to compete with Banjo-Kazooie as he thought it was superior.
>FF7 probably thought it was their game.

Lol. Reminds me of how in Naruto, Gai introduces himself as having a 50W/49L winstreak against Kakashi. Then we find out it's in rock-paper-scissors.

>>10212048
I don't think FF7 is more impressive as a game. FF7 is still a 2D game, exactly like its predecessors. The character models may be 3D, but all of the backgrounds are 2D JPGs. Ocarina of Time is real 3D, and the level design is much more sophisticated and ambitious. When people say FF7 was more impressive, what they are actually saying is "I like the presentation more". Which is really a mask for "I like movie-games more".

>>10212278
kinda losing the plot on this one too

>>10212315
ocarina has very flat levels and any attempts at being 3d do not feel compelling. 95% of the game can exist in a 2d space and the only thing that might change is the great deku tree. really compared to tomb raider, it's pathetic in how "3d" it is. Wow. A switch *above* a door! amazing. Really brilliant stuff miyamoto. Totally pushing 3D to its limit here. Most of the game is as "deep" as this. Few exceptions exist.

>>10212320
Then there's st. francis' folly in tomb raider. This is real 3D level design predating ocarina by 2 years. For 2 years we knew *how* to do it better than miyamoto's limp attempt that took years to copy goemon on the n64 to figure it out. How underwhelming and decidedly mediocre.

>>10212315
>When people say FF7 was more impressive, what they are actually saying is "I like the presentation more". Which is really a mask for "I like movie-games more".
That's what Playstation always has been about, and the ads didn't even try to hide it.

>>10212334
FF7 also has superior pacing, a far better story than any nintendo game, a deep gameplay system that seamlessly presents itself, a wide variety of gameplay scenarios. It's a masterpiece of a game.

>>10212323
>

>>10212320
This is such a lie. The dungeon you posted has lots of elaborate architecture and areas that overlap across different planes.

>>10212323
I never said Ocarina of Time invented 3D. This is just a total nonsequitur. All I said was that it's better than Final Fantasy, which is true. If you want an argument about purity/being first, why not go straight to Doom and Quake?

>>10212320
Water Temple would change a lot in 2D.

>>10212339
Soooo 3D. Come on, even the most "ambitious" room is several leagues more shallow than folly. Get real.

>>10212341
How dishonest. Most rooms are like the ones pictured, a big flat area with at best, an eye switch above a door. Wow. Two things on the same z-axis.

>>10212342
That's the 5%, accounted for.

>>10212320
>very flat levels
Literally every dungeon in the game except Ice cavern has Link using verticality in some engaging way. The dungeons aren't exactly 1:1 structurally coherent but they try to be. No way OoT could ever be a 2D game and the fan remakes just prove how easily fooled and selectively forgetful people are.

>>10212323
Anglo-Saxon engineering.

>>10212336
>superior pacing
Yeah, 1 hour of unskippable cutscene in Kalm is so riveting. So superior to having actual levels. God I love movie games.

>story
Thanks for proving my point.

>>10212349
>cherrypicks the Dark Link room that was used to great effect for not being 3D enough
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iexNvaqwxw

>>10212336
The Mario RPGs unironically have more enjoyable stories than the FF games, not to mention games like Mother 3.

>>10212323
Back before the UK was completely braindrained

>>10212339
You could make most of that 2d - see the oracle of ages version of jabu jabu's belly. The only thing you'd need to add is an up/down toggle after pressing B to change height while swimming, since there are multiple stacked floors in the Water Temple whereas JJB had specific points dedicated to each floor transition.

>>10212353
the flashback has tons of gameplay. it's a denser more interesting game than ocarina
>movie games
hi acfag lmao

"ocarina of time doesn't use 3d"
Stop lying. I just loaded up my most recent save file, and this was what I saw. The whole game is similar to this. It speaks for itself.

>>10212339
Beta water temple was a central pagoda hub you were supposed to fill up with water

>>10212391
Literally just 2d gameplay in those rooms.

>>10212391
What are you trying to show us, stairs? Platforms? Bridges? Keese? All of those are accounted for in 2D Zelda.

>>10211861
because you're retarded

>>10212202
Because it's what FF had been doing forever. It's the series stylistic choice, you have chibi characters in the overworld and realistic characters during battles, and only FF6 uses the same sprites for the two (even FF1 had realistic characters in battle once you get the class upgrade)

This is required exactly because of this >>10212156 , the bird's eye view that every JRPG had been using since Dragon Quest. In the case of FF7 you also have to add 3D models animations on top of that and those animations need to be readable no matter how far away the characters look to be.

FF8 changed the paradigm, but that meant using much closer camera angles, and many more of them with more numerous camera angle changes. It's closer to Resident Evil in that regard. But that hadn't really been done in JRPGs by the time of FF7

>>10212391
Not to mention that many of the puzzles wouldn't work in 2D, such as block puzzles that require you to climb over blocks, skulltulas hidden in odd corners, using cuccos to glide over walls, etc.

>>10212443
>such as block puzzles that require you to climb over blocks
Alundra

> using cuccos to glide over walls
Link's Awakening

It's not the concept of those actions that make it "3D", it's the execution.

>>10212450
Fair enough. I feel like Alundra was basically a 3D game though, given the amount of vertical platforming it had.

Did you know that Link is left-handed because in Japan left-handed people are viewed as subhumans and are forced to write with their right and Nintendo wanted to empower this minority? I thought it was sad.

>>10212440
Nigga, chibi characters don't have to look like total shit

>>10212320
I can, off the top of my head, easily think of vertical/multiple floor puzzles or areas in virtually every dungeon. You talk about the Deku tree presumably because of the web breaking thing while the very next dungeon has you dropping bombs from above into a statute's eyes, which is a very similar puzzle and far from the last instance of it in the game. I honestly can think of at least one 'vertical' section or puzzle in almost every dungeon.

>>10212091
>I just always thought FF7 was newer than Ocarina for some reason

Like, why?

Seriously, FFVII is *a lot* more primitive than OoT in most ways outside of amount of background art and plot exposition. OoT integrates all of its gameplay and world design into a coherent whole that brings everything together is a very sophisticated way, while everything in FFVII is broken up into distinct and segmented parts that are only tangentially related to each other and each of which could have been programmed by a different intern.

>>10211861
Look on the bright side.
It came out with Xenogears, Kino Gear Solid, and Mahvel too

>>10213510
OoT fags are truly delusional. Oot is probably the most basic bitch adventure game Ive ever played. It was so boring I gave up not even half way through.

>>10214476
Congratulations. ye 'av shite tastes, 'arry.

>>10212006
FF7 was delayed from December 1996 to January 1997. No development is without hurdles. Fuck off.

>>10214527
wow, one month... such delays... mong

>>10212418
Why isn't OoT a 6 degrees of freedom decent clone? How dare link obey the laws of gravity!?

>>10214413
How the fuck did Sonic Adventure and the Dreamcast come out the same year as Ocarina of time and Metal Gear Solid? That shit is fucking insane.

>>10215398
tech tree wasn't maxed out like it is today so 1 or 2 years in the 90s made a huge difference

>>10211861
>>10212091
I guess it's just because of the setting. Zelda is high fantasy and FF7 is a much more of the times edgy late 90s thing

>>10211861
imagine if those were link's fart bubbles haha

>>10214580
>why didn't you say this retarded thing I'm pretending you said?!
please share with us what the voices inside your head are saying.

>>10214580
I thought your comment was funny.

>>10214527
>Game was already 100% complete
>Square simply delayed the game so it would perfectly line up with the FF 10th anniversary

>>10212353
>>10212389
You're both fucking retarded. Psx FFs and N64 Zeldas are top 10 all time games

>>10211861
Even crazier, this came out a month after Ocarina of Time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuVjiXLP2fs

>>10215698
You mean a year later.
>most linear ass game I've ever seen
>probably killed Sonic forever
I love me classic Sonic but believe me, it shows. Team was too busy playing OoT over the last year that. Who can blame them?]/spoiler]

This thread has exhausted its value. Sage to kill early.

>>10217009
>You mean a year later.
No, a month later. Ocarina of Time released in November of 1998, Sonic Adventure released in December of 1998.

>>10217021
IMPOSSIBLE!! Even worse. They were playing Pokemon then.

>>10217052
Nah, they were busy making Saturn games as well as working on Sonic Adventure for Saturn before having to switch it over to the Dreamcast in under a year. They also had a trip to South America sometime in there.

>Both of these games came out in 2004
It really doesn't feel like so long ago that retail shmups were still a thing that the average person bought.

>>10211861
>When the "water" push into your ass.