/vr/ - Retro Games

Only kind of? I LOVE this game.

Does anyone remember the ARG website for the game called JRAMOA?

All I remember from the site was it had these cool cyber-looking wallpapers that looked good on my family's iMac. There was a third one that I can't find anymore.

>>4607535
That's because youre a fag

And rightly so

>>4607535
I really really like this game

I unironically think its on par with OoT.

>>4607535
Of course you do.

>>4607535
why would you not?

>>4607809
Me too, I don't get people who like one but hate the other.
MM was a great follow-up.

>>4607809

I think it's better than OoT.

Seriously. Most of the reason I like it is it solves a pet peeve I have with every "open world" RPG, or any game where they try to tell you the world is alive. In MM, all the characters seem real. They go out and do things. They'll try to solve their own problems if you're not there to solve them. If they say "meet me at midnight", they mean midnight like a normal person, not any random midnight that the quest is active. And even the most out of the way random NPC has some kind of story.

I know a lot of that is a function of the looping time travel mechanic, but damn. I wish other games at least tried to come up with something else. But some of that is also just great writing, camera usage, and sound design.

>>4608135
It's really nice how much they could cramp in the 3-day cycle. Makes me wonder how would the game be if it had the original planned 7-day cycle.

>>4608135
Unfortunately, gameplay-wise most of the stuff you do isn't very stellar. Fetch quests and stuff. They put effort into the padding, but it's padding nonetheless. Waiting for hours is also tedious, and losing ammo when restarting is unnecessary, even if not a big deal.

>>4608174
You can usually do more than one at once. So while you wait for an event to happen, you go and do other stuff.
The only one that took the whole 3-day cycle, the biggest quest in the game, is obviously Kafei's, but that's the exception.
Anyway, I think people who enjoy this game don't see it in a cynic way as "padding", it's just how the game emulates how the real world is, with people having schedules and stuff. Plus, there's ways to make time go faster or slower, manipulating the time is an essential part of the game. You become an omnipresent god that can be and be everywhere in these 3 days.

>>4608182
I say it's padding because the actual gameplay isn't very engaging. You are engaged because of the aesthetics, characters or whatever. But for someone like me who doesn't care, the tasks you can do in this game are quite boring a lot of the time.
They're optional, but they're most of the content of the game.

>>4608195
I see what you mean. Some quests were gameplay-based anyway, I remember the last part of the Kafei quest being a sort of mini mini dungeon, but most of them are just talking to people and using a mask or showing them a certain item, I can see how it can be boring if you're not engaged with the characters and the story.
I still think the game provides enough gameplay-based moments, I don't think the schedule book quests are most of the game content, at most I think it'd be like a 30% or 25% (there's still other quests that aren't bomber notebook-based and are more based on regular exploration).

Let's face it, the only thing OoT has going for it over MM is it's length. Other than that, MM is simply superior in every way.

>OoT has pointless empty Hyrule field, MM has Clock Town in the center
>OoT has no fleshed out city like MM, just 2D prerenders
>OoT lacks the sidequests, the lively world and the athmosphere
>time mechanic adds temporal dimension to quests, bomber's notebook allows to keep track of everything
>Mask transformations add lots to the gameplay. OoT on the other hand has the infamous iron boots.
I could go on.

>>4608229
Sure, I've beaten it and the dungeons are cool for the most part. Just saying why I don't like it that much personally.
>muh length
Here we go again...

>>4608135
>MM is a netter game than OOT because I can talk to the npcs more
just go play an RPG, kiddo. you'll enjoy it more.

>>4608249
>but let's ignore that OOT is older than MM and MM only exists because it built directly of OOT

>>4608195

Yeah I don't really get this, at least on a first playthrough. A lot of the sidequests aren't obvious, so just getting all the masks and completing the bombers notebook is a task in itself, like a series of puzzles. So for example, you have to figure out yourself to use the All-Night Mask when talking to that old lady who tells you stories about the 4 giants. Not a huge leap to make, but then you have to figure out how to get the mask. Which requires you to figure out where to get the giants wallet, and to save the old lady on night one. The giants wallet requires you to clear out a mini dungeon, and it's kind of tricky to know what causes the all-night mask to appear in the shop in the first place. Yes, on the face of it, some of this shit is just "hit this guy with a sword" and "talk to people" and then "buy this thing", but as a whole it took a lot to get there. Assuming you don't look it up. I also havn't played the 3DS remake, I wasn't a fan that the bombers kept following you around to give you hints, as if it's fun to be explicitly told how to fill your notebook.

>>4608264

Maybe you need to work on your reading comprehension.

>>4608298
It's not the most exciting kind of gameplay to me, that's all. It seems like padding since they built the game that way since they were on time constraints and had to come up with relatively cheap, easy and fast ways to make it longer to appeal to the new kinds of players that demanded length in their games instead of a consistently good experience.

I had MM pre-ordered. I don't think I've ever been so hype for a new game.
Got not a whole lot past the monkey in a swamp dungeon. I realize that's SUPER early in the game but I just couldn't stand anymore.
I was totally indifferent about Termina ending. Didn't care a bit about any of the people and the time gimmick irritated me.

>>4608421
That's a shame, there are so many great stories you left untold.

You really should try again, at least make it to the Goron mountains.

the way that you do things in MM doesn't always make sense
>have to use hot water to melt ice to get more hot water

>fisherman guy " i haven't caught any fish lately"
>have to specifically look at the seahorse, "oh I'll trade you that fish"

shit just randomly gets too specific and it's too easy to get stuck. Now that I'm playing the game I realize it's not as good as I remembered it. still good, but at least ocarina I don't need to consult a walkthrough just to replay it

>>4608473
the goron mt was a bit of a let down for me. I got used to a super colorful world and then nothing but white. thank god spring came.

>>4607535
I enjoyed my first playthrough of this more than any other Zelda game but I really have no desire to play it a second time.

>>4608269
And MM is better.

>Guys, I think I like the best game in the second most popular series that there is

I want more games with goron movement mechanics. Shit was satisfying as.

MM is one of those games that I absolutely fucking love, and when you can use glitches to avoid all the tedium it becomes fucking glorious.
>Don't feel like doing bomber shit
>Just gainer up clock tower

>Don't feel like doing kafei side quest for Keaton mask
>Just gainer up wall then jump in to house for free mask

>Don't feel like doing bottle sidequests
>Just glitch a bottle in to inventory

>Don't feel like collecting all 7 eggs
>Just dump the same egg 7 times

When you factor in that stuff, the replayability skyrockets because the dungeons, even though there's truly only 5, are some of the best in the series, and you're no longer held back by the boring tedious sidequests you've done a million times before. Plus, learning the mechanics of the glitches, but experimenting with finding your own way to deal with every problem makes the game extremely replayable as well. Such a fucking gem.

>>4610534
Having to use that song so much in the Stone dungeon breaks the pace a lot IMO. But yeah, they are among the best dungeons in 3D Zelda, they definitely went quality over quantity there.

>>4610538
See, another point where learning glitches just makes things better, you can just bottle time stop all of those blocks, instead of spending 2 years playing Elegy of Emptiness.

A really interesting bug that was very recently discovered too is that every sun block can be evaporated by pouring plain spring water on it, rather than needing sun reflection or a light arrow.

Those 2 things make stone tower fukken great.

>>4610534

I prefer the boring tedious sidequests. Not that I think the dungeons are bad, but the whole reason I like the game is those side quests.

>>4610543
Cool insight into how games are improved by unintended mechanics, even if I'm not huge into MM. Spyro 2 is another example, there's an easy glitch (jump charge) which lets you skip most of the forced backtracking in the game.
>>4610545
>I prefer the boring tedious sidequests.
I hope you mean you like that stuff for the aesthetics or something, otherwise I guess you're masochistic.

>>4610545
I just think it shows off the game's beauty that you truly can play it what ever way you want to within the confines of the game itself.

Obviously if you want to do all of the sidequests, you can, but to me, a game shines when if you don't want to, there is a way around it, I love that, because of the way the game is programmed, you can quickly traverse the entire map by jumping between grottos (Since all grottos are stored in the same map) or by jumping between fairy fountains (Same thing) and then there's index warping which allows you to access all owl statues right from the start of the game, even if it's unintended, the fact that you can do it makes the game great, and yet, on the flipside, if you're just playing the game casually, you'll very likely never encounter a single bug.

>>4610554
Well, that glitch stuff is by no means unique to MM.

>>4610534
But I play Majora's Mask FOR the side quests.

>>4610569
MM has particularly impressive glitches. The low% and reverse dungeon order speedrun categories are nutty.

bump

>>4608091
Because it's an OoT rom hack with a boring overworld, only 4 dungeons that all suck, an annoying time limit, barely any freedom and repetitive as fuck gameplay. Ocarina is the better game in every way and Majora was made for people that hate Zelda. Ocarina felt like a vast, sprawling medieval adventure filled with memorable moments, great atmosphere and secrets abound. By comparison, Majora is a tiny, chatty little game made for people that want "muh dark storyline" and not a game that's actually fun and rewarding. I don't care what shit argument anybody has to counter these claims because they are all objectively wrong.

>>4607535
Pile of shit, never liked it.

>>4612836
>it's an OoT rom hack with a boring overworld
If you have to give MM anything, it's that unlike OoT, it didn't have a boring overworld. Hyrule fields was just a plain of emptyness that wasted time.

>>4612904
Honestly they're both boring. Hyrule Fields is a giant empty expanse with a couple hills. Termina Field is a medium-sized empty donut.

>>4612927
Yeah, but at least Termina Fields isn't the center of everything and the identifiable hub world for MM, that'd be Clocktown.
The only think OoT has going for it is some better dungeon design (but it also has a lot more misses than MM) and better bosses. But, MM has a leg up on general content, as it's based around fixing people's lives before the end of the world.
I wish Nintendo would remake MM with the original 7 days, as I bet it'd be as long if not longer than OoT

>>4612904
No, I don't have to give it that. It's tiny little circle with a bizarre mix of environments and barely anything to do. Hyrule Field was a vast, beautiful plain that served as a perfect hub for accessing critical areas of the game, and had lots of little secrets and cool things to find. The running guy, the peahats, the skeletons, hunting poes, the various hidden holes with different stuff in them, the trees that dropped specific items, etc. It was only empty if you didn't bother to actually explore it. But regardless, the whole point was that it was a hub.

>>4612940
MM's hub, Clock Town, has stuff actually happening in it.
It's where majority of the side quests are started or occur, it has most of the shops, it has a bunch of minigames and dicking around things and is infinitely more interesting than Hyrule Field.

>>4612942
>MM's hub, Clock Town, has stuff actually happening in it.
Yeah... because everywhere else is pretty empty. Did you suddenly forget that OoT has about 5 towns, each with their own shops, minigames and "dicking around things"? Hell, Kakariko Village by itself has almost as much stuff to do as the entirety of Clock Town. Regardless, comparing Clock Town to Hyrule Field is retarded because CT is just where a lot of critical story events happen and HF is more of an actual hub that you use to quickly access different areas of the game. MM's actual hub is Termina Field, and as we've already established, it's boring.

>>4612836
>Because it's an OoT rom hack
Lots of effort put into that "rom hack" considering the only reused assets were NPCs and a small amount of enemies (most are original for Majora's Mask)

>>4614043
Uh huh... and, you know, music, textures, models, and... almost every item?

>>4614051
>music
I remember the lost woods... something else?
>textures
I think most of the textures are new though.
>models
I already mentioned NPCs
>almost every item
I'll give you that one, but don't fix what isn't broken I guess. This game is meant to be a direct sequel to OOT after all, would be weird to have completely new items.

>>4614051

Majora's Mask hardly even uses the items outside the ocarina, lens, bow, and bomb. Bows and bombs are in every Zelda game. The game is about masks.

>>4614034

No, wrong, it has about five quests related to it, a mini dungeon, and you learn two songs. And the couple's mask quest is more extensive than all of those Kakariko quests put together. Kakariko and other side quests in the game are smaller than Majora's, and Majora has more random encounters like the arm in the bathroom and the bomb thief.

>>4612940

The bird is more interesting than any of the stuff you're mentioning, and most of the stuff you're mentioning in is Majora's, both games have random holes to fall into and random items (really just rupees, bombs, and arrows) to find. You're trying to quantify something that doesn't quantifiably favor your position.

>>4612836

The ultimate "it's not OoT" post, no real argument except that it's not some OoT expansion.

>>4614064
>Majora's Mask hardly even uses the items outside the ocarina, lens, bow, and bomb. Bows and bombs are in every Zelda game. The game is about masks.
And this makes recycling the items less lazy... how, exactly?
>No, wrong, it has about five quests related to it, a mini dungeon, and you learn two songs. And the couple's mask quest is more extensive than all of those Kakariko quests put together. Kakariko and other side quests in the game are smaller than Majora's, and Majora has more random encounters like the arm in the bathroom and the bomb thief.
I repeat: Ocarina has five fucking towns. Obviously a game with one main town is going to have slightly more in it, but that's besides the point. Kakariko has three shops, various houses, two quests, the shooting gallery, the house of skulltula, the windmill + song of storms, a few secret holes, and the entire graveyard right behind it with a bunch of its own stuff. And that's one single town. The fact you're trying to defend Clock Town by saying "b-but the couple's mask quest is longer" is pathetic. Fuck, I'd hope it would be longer, it's one of the only things to do.
>The bird is more interesting than any of the stuff you're mentioning, and most of the stuff you're mentioning in is Majora's, both games have random holes to fall into and random items (really just rupees, bombs, and arrows) to find. You're trying to quantify something that doesn't quantifiably favor your position.
What a trainweck of a statement. Yes, I am quantifying something, I'm literally listing what Hyrule Field has in it. Pretty sure that "quantifiably favors" my opinion that Hyrule Field isn't empty.
>no real argument except that it's not some OoT expansion.
It literally is.

>>4614080
>And this makes recycling the items less lazy... how, exactly?
Because it's not. You don't seem to get it, making a /v/ complaint about "lazy devs" isn't an argument, you're taking your stupid position as a given.

Here's a real question: Why should they replace items like deku nuts? The game even uses them creatively with the Deku mask, much more useful than OoT.

>I repeat: Ocarina has five fucking towns.
Oh boy I'll go to Zora's Domain and jump off a waterfall, such quest, many reward, all the explore. So much more detailed than Majora's Mask somehow even though all of those towns have at least as many quests, even the fucking ghost town.

Again, you are trying to quantify something that quantifably disagrees with your statement. Oh boy, the shooting range, oh wait Majora's Mask has three different shooting ranges. You're wrong!

>What a trainweck of a statement.
Translation: I can't poke a hole in this argument.

>It literally is.
No it's not. Lots of games have reused assets and are better games than the games they reused those assets from.

>>4614090
>Because it's not.
Great argument you low functioning retard. I'm pretty sure straight ripping assets from one game and using them in another is the definition of lazy.
>Here's a real question: Why should they replace items like deku nuts?
Here's a better question: how about doing something original or at least re-drawing the items?
>Oh boy I'll go to Zora's Domain and jump off a waterfall, such quest, many reward, all the explore. So much more detailed than Majora's Mask somehow even though all of those towns have at least as many quests, even the fucking ghost town.
Wow, it's almost like you cherrypicked the smallest town with the least amount of stuff to do and are continually pretending areas like Kakariko, Castle Town and Kokiri don't exist. Hmm...
>Again, you are trying to quantify something that quantifably disagrees with your statement. Oh boy, the shooting range, oh wait Majora's Mask has three different shooting ranges. You're wrong!
Stop using words you don't understand you pseudo intellectual faggot. I literally listed what Hyrule Field has in it, just because you want to scream and stamp your foot doesn't make me wrong. Also, Ocarina of Time has three shooting ranges too, or have you not actually played this game?
>Translation: I can't poke a hole in this argument.
Hard to poke a hole in something that doesn't exist.
>No it's not. Lots of games have reused assets and are better games than the games they reused those assets from.
Yeah, and Majora isn't one of them.

This is going to be my last reply to you because it's clear from your verbal meme usage that you're mentally ill so I don't want to waste anymore time. I will end by stating a simple fact: Ocarina of Time is bigger, it has more to do in it, the story is better, the items are better, the music is better, everything except the graphical detail is better. The game, is better. It's the most highly rated game of all time. Get fucked and deal with it.

>>4614104
>Translation: I can't poke a hole in this argument.
>Hard to poke a hole in something that doesn't exist.
lmao savage

>>4614064
>>4614054
>>4614051
>>4614043
>>4612836
Y'all realize that here's very good lore reasons why there's visual similarities between the two game, right?