/vr/ - Retro Games

>>6256246
PS1 was most shit.

>>6256246
Playstation

>>6256246
Taking taking in their entire libraries? N64.

If you were a burger who wasn't import savy, then I guess Saturn.

I've got only 5 N64 games and of those only 2 are good. Only Nintendo themselves developed good games for it. Pretty much complete trash otherwise.

I have around 15 Saturn games and all of them are fun.

Those are 2 systems that are pretty nice and compliment each other well. N64 got the best 3D and Satunr got the best 2D of 5th gen. Together they create the ultimate 5th gen experience.
PS1 is the "jack of all trades, master of none" of 5th gen.

>>6256259
>jack of all trades, master of sales
Ftfy, and I say that as a Segafag.

>>6256246
Saturn easily. Don't listen to the hipsters.

>>6256258
>Only Nintendo themselves developed good games for it.
Konami, Hudson, Midway, Enix all published some good games for N64. Need to delve into the catalogue more if you think only first party stuff is good.

>>6256262
Avengers endgame is the best movie ever created.

>>6256263
t. Nintencuck jealous of Segautists who were importing tons of cool games while they toiled away with the same 5 games while waiting for the next major release

>>6256269
Where did the Saturn's mythical Japanese library lie come from? Is it decades old cope that just stuck around?

>>6256273
Where did the N64's mythical quality over quantity lie come from? Is it decades old seething that just stuck around?

>>6256249
>>6256250
delusional

>>6256278
Well no it's just a fact.

>>6256249
>>6256250
Rent free.

>>6256246
I actually like both equally despite prefering the PS1, the only bad console that gen was the Jaguar imo.

>>6256280
>Well no it's just a lie
Yes we know. It's why Nintencucks have started listing the system's shovelware as hidden gems after over discussing the first party and Rareware games after 20 years

>>6256249
>>6256250
By what metric?
>Larger game library
>Average playtime and content per game much is much higher
>Graphics are chock full o' soul, KINO and in a very round about way the spiritual successor to the SNES.
>Architecture encouraged creative devs to push the limits of the hardware (even if sony were dicks about it) and had homebrew kits
>Controller became the standard for two more generations
>Much higher sales

The only negative I can come up with is the texture wobble but its not even consistently a problem.

The N64 and Saturn are both flawed enough in comparison to keep them below the PSX in every category but raw computational power.

>>6256287
Unlike Sega fans, who have never propped up mediocre games because they're the only games they have on their system.

>>6256265
Seriously, it's become a bit of a meme at this stage. The N64 is probably the only system that Metal Jesus could actually make a legit hidden gems video on but hasn't because he's as clueless as some of the people who post on this board.

>>6256283
OP's post was, smoothbrain.

>>6256290
>Controller became the standard for two more generations
You mean the SNES controller did, and for three more generations

>>6256304
touche

>>6256290
>to keep them below the PSX in every category
Let's not get crazy. OoT, SM64, and SF64 are the best games in their respective genres. The real answer is that if you were a poorfag and didn't have both an N64 and Playstation, you were seriously missing out.

Do you guys ever get tired of arguing over this?

Nobody even knew the Saturn existed back then, how is thay even a question.

>>6256320
>The real answer is that if you were a poorfag and didn't have both an N64 and Playstation, you were seriously missing out.
Or what me and my 3 bros would do is coordinate what we bought so we could all share with each other and have top 10 games for each respective system we skipped the saturn in favor of PC games

>>6256304
>>6256306
What SNES controller had dual analog sticks?

>>6256339
Zoom zoom

>>6256376
Not the PS1's controller. It stole that and vibration from N64 for its remodel, which very few games on the system actually use.

>>6256331

>>6256387
Your N64 had dual analogs and built in rumble? Sheeeeit, I missed out with my floppy sticked abortion of an N64 controller that I grew up with.

What's wrong with Sonyfags?.

>>6256408
Sorry about your low-IQ reading difficulties.

>>6256423
>seething Nintencuck as he gets called out on his revisionism

>>6256387
>>6256423
Reminder that stealing removes the original.

PC chad here. Saturn only had bad ports and shit games like Nights and Pansy Fagoon.
It was good if you were a depressed loser in the 90s who didn't want to leave your basement to play arcade games.
N64 was less shit, it had a few classic games like 007 and Mario 64.

>>6256469
>Saturn only had bad ports and shit games
Die Hard Arcade is a great port.

>>6256246
N64. Sega Saturn had a better controller, their games had more quality and a great library of games. N64 had some great games, but the N64 has aged terribly and has the worst controller ever made. There isn't even a decent adapter to play N64 games in HD.

>>6256469
t. Seething Nintendrone Fagboy

>>6256504
>their games had more quality and a great library of games

N64 in Japan, Saturn everywhere else.

>>6256523
When Nights and Guardian Heroes are in the top five you know the library was lackluster.

>>6256523
I want to play all those JP-only Saturn JRPGs with German names.

>>6256504
>There isn't even a decent adapter to play N64 games in HD
What the fuck is wrong with you

>>6256469
>PC chad
Computer gamers were and are faggots

>>6256284
>I actually like both equally despite prefering the PS1
Based. Vidya is vidya. Only retards swear allegience to a piece of plastic.

>>6256380
How is that a zoomer statement, the Saturn was such a non-entity.

>>6256246
I've never known anybody in my entire life who's owned a Saturn.

>>6256251
lol at your timeline where the Saturn has a bigger library than the N64.
I like the Saturn plenty, but come on

>>6256258
>what is Rareware

>>6256750
A simple Google search is like 30 seconds. Come on, now.

>>6256819
>2020
>using Jewgle

Ban Sony consoles and Sonyggers.

>>6256246
At least N64 got the greatest 3D platformers, FPS's, and racing games of that gen.

Saturn didn't have jack shit.

>>6257029
There isn't a single good FPS on the N64, and both Wipeout and CTR crush N64 racing games. Banjo Kazooie and Super Mario 64 were better than Crash Bandicoot and Spyro though, I'll give you that.

>>6256380
Nobody had a saturn dude
Shut the fuck up

>>6257064
>There isn't a single good FPS on the N64
Perfect Dark, Goldeneye, Quake II (different from PC version), Doom 64, the list goes on and on...

>and both Wipeout and CTR crush N64 racing games.
ROFL.

>>6257064
>There isn't a single good FPS on the N64,
goldeneye, Perfect Dark, turok 2, lylat wars, Rogue Squadron beg to differ!!

>both Wipeout and CTR crush N64 racing games
F Zero X is better than either of those.
Plus when you consider that CTR is basically a carbon-copy of Mario Kart, why not just play the real thing? That always struck me about Playstation, everything was just copied off something else...

>>6256534
Just pointing out the N64's obvious flaw, which is a lack of a digital output. But it's okay, S-Video seems to work just fine.

>>6257090
>F Zero X is better than either of those.
I'll give you CTR, but there is no fucking way F-Zero X is better than Wipeout, literally any Wipeout game wipes its ass with F-Zero

>>6257104
Wipeout is boring floaty trash.

Personally, I like the Saturn more than I like the N64 although I grew up mostly with N64 games. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. The N64 library isn't very sharp. No Metroid, not really any RPGs unless you REALLY like Quest 64, and a shit ton of games that were just outright canned or downgraded at best because of the failure of the Disc Druve add-on. There's also the issue of playing on real hardware with real controllers. Since a lot of the old sticks are worn down you typically need to replace them. However, what the N64 lacks in vatiety it makes up for in quality. Some of the most generation defining games were on the platform with games like Banjo Kazooie, Mario 64, Diddy Kong Racing, among others. It also had a leg up in terms of power since its competitors were 32 bit and it jumped the gap all the way to 64. The Saturn was a complete failure in the states, was a bitch to program for with that difficulty showing in its games (for example, the Saturn is perfectly capable of doing transparencies, but the work that was required to get them done right between its two processors often meant that developers opted for the simpler option of just using dithering) and lacked a new mainline Sonic game meaning a big hole was left in its library. a Sega console without their flagship mascot at the helm. However, the Saturn's quantity and quality of games is astronomical. So many amazing titles like Panzer Dragoon 1 and 2, NiGHTS Into Dreams, Virtua Fighter 2, King of Fighters 96, Fighters Megamix, Virtua Cop 1 and 2, and even a ton of weird shit you'd never hear your average joe talking about like Waku Waku 7. Seriously, do a deep dive into the Saturn library at some point. Guaranteed there'll be something you've never heard of there that you'll fall in love with. Japanese Saturn games are super cheap if you want to go with real hardware too so it's not even that hard to do.

>>6256246
The Saturn for western audiences. You can talk about those imports all you like but nobody was doing that shit back then.

>>6257113
I eat pieces of boring floaty trash like you for breakfast

>>6257119
You eat pieces of boring floaty trash for breakfast?

>>6257124
N-No I....shut up Happy

>>6257114
>not really any RPGs unless you REALLY like Quest 64,
It only got the best RPG of that gen, my dude.

>>6257114
>Virtua Fighter 2, King of Fighters 96, Virtua Cop 1 and 2, and even a ton of weird shit you'd never hear your average joe talking about like Waku Waku 7.
Inferior ports: the console.

>>6256339
>>6257070
I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Saturn sold something along the lines of 3 million units outside Japan. Not just North America, literally everywhere outside Japan. I'm curious to see if anyone can corroborate this.

I knew the Sega Saturn existed as a kid, I read about it in magazines, but I never met anyone who owned one. Everyone I knew had either a Playstation or an N64. Curiously, we didn't used to argue about which was better. We just went over to each others' houses to play, or exchanged consoles for a weekend. It wasn't until I discovered the internet that I discovered people actually argued over game consoles. Must be an American thing.

>>6257114
>Nights into Dreams
>amazing
Pick one.
>Seriously, do a deep dive into the Saturn library at some point
I have and my analysis finds that it is indeed a console that is largely comprised of ports and subpar games.

N64 did not have a single good game on it

>>6256246
5th generation was so lopsided it's ridiculous.
>1. Sony PlayStation @ 102.49 million
>2. Nintendo 64 @ 32.93 million
>3. Sega Saturn @ 9.26 million
>4. 3DO Interactive Multiplayer @ 2 million
>5. Atari Jaguar @ <250,000
There's literally a fucking power gap between each place holder.

>>6257138
Are you the same faggot from the Dreamcast thread a while back who argued that because muh grafix the games are unplayable trash? Just because they're scaled back ports doesn'y mean they're bad. You're just retarded.

>>6257131
Zelda very clearly is not what I mean by RPG. i'm talking Chrono Trigger, FFVII, Mother 2, and the like. Zelda resembles an adventure game more than anything.

>>6257178
>4. 3DO Interactive Multiplayer @ 2 million
>5. Atari Jaguar @ <250,000
Good god. I knew the Jaguar was shit but I didn't know it was THAT shit.

>>6257158
NkGHTS is fun. The Saturn has a great library, you just have shit taste.

>>6256331
It's fucking pointless. We know how it ended.

>>6257196
Nights is boring as hell. It is literally just flying through rings, you can't get more simplistic and boring than that.
>The Saturn has a great library
If you like inferior ports and subpar games maybe.
>>6257197
These threads are the /vr/ equivalent of historical reenactments.

>>6257103
>digital output
It's like you what there to be input lag.

>>6257204
Aren't reenactments supposed to be enjoyable?

I'm so glad I've always been an idort. This shit is nuts.

>>6257204
You really do sound like that same retard from the Dreamcast thread. This guy would go on and on about how inferior the arcade ports were when it boiled down to just worse textures. He outed himself as a grafixfag and a nintendrone though. You're vastly oversimplifying NiGHTS Into Dreams as well. You really do seem like the same guy because you have the same flimsy arguments that you'll try to force throughout the whole thread.

>>6257210
You being an idort doesn't change the fact that there are good and bad consoles. The Saturn falls under the latter.

>>6257219
>You're vastly oversimplifying NiGHTS Into Dreams as well
Proofs?
>This guy would go on and on about how inferior the arcade ports were when it boiled down to just worse textures
The fact this guy has traumatized you tells me he was right about whatever you were arguing about.

>>6257223
I'm not disagreeing with that.

>>6257224
Well for starters, there's a system in place where you need to balance being both Nights and the kid. Play too long as Nights and you turn back into the kid, play too long as the kid and you'll get booted out of the level prematurely. You need to get a C or higher in each level to progress so need to pay attention. It's not just flying through rings. I guess Super mario 64 is just running and jumping, right? Also, this guy didn't traumatize me. He sticks out because he outed himself as a complete retard and was laughed at by everyone in the thread for beung the retarded consolewarfag he was.

>>6257191
>scaled back
>doesn'y mean they're bad

>>6257242
If you ever get turned into one of the kids you might as well restart the level, their gameplay is scrambling to get turned back into the gay jester so you can continue flying through rings.

>>6257242
Wait, are you the schizo Sonicfag who thought he blew up his TV with a remote control? You are, aren't you. You got so humiliated and have been sperging out in every Sega thread since. How embarrassing!

>>6257250
That's part of the game though. You need to be quick and good at the game if you want success. That's what makes it fun. Again, vastly oversimplifying the gameplay.

>>6257251
Wtf, my TV's perfectly intact. Sorry, you got the wrong guy. Got a link or a thread name for the archive? Shit sounds fucking hilarious.

>>6257253
>You need to be quick and good at the game if you want success
I beat the game in around an hour on my first try. What would getting good at the game consist of? Flying through the same rings but faster?

>>6257258
It's ok, little schizo faggot. You can play the superior original versions now. No need to play inferior ports with worse graphics/sound/gameplay or embarrass yourself further.

>>6257261
Guaranteed you scraped by with Cs and just did the bare minimum for gameplay. For someone who boasts about how superior arcade games are you sure don't seem to understand how they're designed. Arcades are why Nights' ranking system and all other ranking systems exist. You're asked to do the same thing but better. I guess Crazy Taxi is just driving a car and Mega Man is just jumping and shooting. You're not very good at proving your point, especially when you keep spouting logical fallacies.

>>6257286
>You're asked to do the same thing but better
Which is flying through rings which fucking sucks and is objectively boring. There are barely any mechanics at all in the game.

>>6257268
Not the same guy. Your flimsy arguments and just how triggered you are about me knowing just who you are though suggests you ARE that retard from the Dreamcast thread a while back. You're trying to portray me as someone I've proven I'm not by showing that my TV is fine. Is this really all you do all day? Spam threads that even have a slight mention of Sega with your nintendrone consolewar shit? you do see the Wii and the Switch in my photo as well as the Sega CD showing that I'm not an anythingfag and that I just like video games, right? You do understand consolewarfaggotry belongs on >>>/v/,
right?

>>6257290
Yes. I bet it really makes your zoomer ADHD go fucking nuts.

>>6257305
>yeah this game is garbage with no depth but ur a zoomer lol
So it's come to this.

>>6257307
The game has plenty of depth in the ranking system. It allows you to get better with every replay of the game by sharpening your skill. Another trait found in arcade games. The depth is in the player's skill growth. By your logic Super Mario 64 has no depth because it's just running and jumping to avoid obstacles and get from point A to point B. There's no mechanics in the game other than you being able to jump on certain obstacles. I'd understand if Nights wasn't to your tastes, but you're saying it's a bad game which it definitely isn't. Also, your previous attempt at this kind of faggotry is still on full display here. >>6236906

>>6257315
>It allows you to get better with every replay of the game by sharpening your skill
I like how you used "skill" instead of "skills". More accurate that way since the only skill the game requires is going through rings. Gotta get those high ranks though by flying through the same rings but more quickly.

Fuck Nights and fuck Segautists.

>>6257298
>segafag
>wiitarded
>switch
>i've proven i'm not by showing that my TV is fine
>lcd
>you ARE that retard
Holy cringepost.

>>6257318
>>6257319
>>6257320
lol samefag mad that he got btfo. What does my TV being an LCD and 3 of my consoles have to do with being this guy who somehow blew his TV up? Why'd you even drag him into this? This rando has no bearing on the conversation at hand, you're just strawmanning. If this is the hill you want to die on then so be it. Nights is a good game and the vast majority of people agree. Just look at user reviews from anywhere on the internet. Nearly every source shows that it's 80-90% positive. If you personally don't like it, that's fine, but learn the difference between facts and opinions. Don't call me a Segafag either. I have plenty of consoles, most of which are Nintendo platforms. I don't own a Game Gear or Master System, and I have a couple sony consoles as well. If you're gonna label me then at least do it right.

>>6257335
>Nights is a good game and the vast majority of people agree
Argumentum ad populum. The game is boring trash with no mechanical depth.

>>6257340
Argumentum ad populum my ass. Argumentum ad populum is using a majority's belief as the sole base of your claim. Not to mention people reporting their experience with a product is different than a face value observation and saying it's good because it's good or it's bad because it's bad like you've been giving. I've proven several times the game has depth. it was YOU who didn't bother to explore it. All you've done is oversimplify the gameplay as justification for your stance which is a fallacy in itself. It's very clear that you just want to shit on a game because of the platform it's on judging by your "segafag" remark. You're genuinely the most retarded person on 4chan.

>>6257352
>I've proven several times the game has depth
No you haven't. Grading systems aren't depth.
>It's very clear that you just want to shit on a game because of the platform it's on judging by your "segafag" remark. You're genuinely the most retarded person on 4chan.
The irony of that second sentence when I've never said such a thing is truly priceless.

>>6257335
>samefag
Literal schizo.
Nights sucks, retard.

>>6257340
>>6257352
oh didn't notice the image, lol. Either you're switching IPs or you're just not the same people. Either way, shitting on a platform because it's that platform is retarded and you're guilty of it too as well as that other moron. Like I said in my initial post in this thread, every platform has its strengths and weaknesses. Consolewarfags like you are painfully obvious to weed out. Not gonna waste my time on this any further. I know I'm right, and I can sleep well with the satisfaction that me knowing I'm right is gonna make you seethe and keep giving me (you)s

>>6257365
I'm shitting the Saturn for having a garbage library and Nights for being a garbage game. That has nothing to do with Sega as a whole.

>>6256246
I would've said the Saturn, but after giving the later released titles and imports a chance it aged better than the N64. I won't play my N64 until I have friends over and the voting ratio of system choice outbeats me. Again, you gotta have some Saturn imports to really appreciate it for what it is.

Bulk Slash, Gungriffon 1 & 2, Stellar Assault AS, Assault Suit Leynos 2, Princess Crown, Elevator Action Returns, Sega Worldwide Soccer 98, Dragon Ball Z Legends. I'm just naming some of my favorite Saturn Import games.

I have some decent US released Saturn games like Virtual On, Panzer Dragoon series (especially Zwei), Virtua Fighter 2 & Remix, Last Bronx, Virtua Cop 1&2, Area 51, Mortal Kombat Trilogy, Rampage World Tour, Resident Evil, Galactic Attack and Die Hard Arcade.

I also have Nights into Dreams and Tomb Raider. Tomb Raider is ok with me, but Nights? I'm sorry but as a Sega fan I'm not really into Nights nor Sonic like I am into Ristar and other Sega franchise characters that they refuse to push out as well. And I'm not really into RPGs neither, unless the word "action" is in front of it.

Oh and I soft modded my system too. Half of the games listed I have original copies of, the other half..... Yeah.

Wishlist: Astal & Guardian Heroes (my last CD cracked, sadface).

>>6257365
>you're switching IPs
schiz·o·phre·ni·a: a long-term mental disorder of a type involving a breakdown in the relation between thought, emotion, and behavior, leading to faulty perception, inappropriate actions and feelings, withdrawal from reality and personal relationships into fantasy and delusion, and a sense of mental fragmentation.

>>6257086
>shit ports and shit framerates
Heh.
>>6257086
>goldeneye, Perfect Dark, turok 2, Rogue Squadron
Unplayably low framerates all around. No thanks. Genuinely curious as to why you'd even mention the awful console port of rogue squadron when it's not even an FPS.
>F Zero X is better than either of those
It's not.
>Plus when you consider that CTR is basically a carbon-copy of Mario Kart
It's objectively not a carbon copy. A carbon copy would be something akin to DDP and SM2.

I didn't even know that a console named saturn existed during N64/Playstation era until years later lmao

>>6257583
But thats not what we're talking about, the question is which system is better.

>>6257373
The Saturn has a great library if you like shmups

>>6257070
My bff had one so fuck you I guess

the real ones know the saturn was better

>>6257583
So you probably missed out on a ton of good videogame magazines out at the time.

>>6257583
Because you are a late millenial who was not really truly around 1994-1999
>bbbut I was five
Yeah exactly

>>6256246
Ps1 was trash. I dont know how people think anyhting on it is fun. And its bent graphics.

if you don't care about Nintendo, Saturn blows it out of the water. By 1993-1994 I stopped caring about Nintendo games and I owned the SNES, I had moved on to CAPCOM,KONAMI etc

>>6256246
N64 because Saturn is actually good

In my country only the rich kids had a Saturn.

Sony lucky that they were already succeeding in electronics to begin with. Nintendo stupid for trying to collaborate with Sony in the beginning. That SNES with the Sony CD drive probably had a development kit that eventually shifted over to the PlayStation and they ran with it. I still shake my head seeing PS4 and Xbox One out there in the open. Now Sega and Nintendo making Olympics product games together. Blaaaahhh! I think at the end of the day, play the systems that you're into, but please don't play the N64 by yourself. I have an everdrive cartridge for it and I still catch myself playing the Saturn more often.

>>6257524
>kart racing game
>cutesy characters
>item powerups
its basically Mario Kart but with Crash setting.

And what is Rogue Squadron then - a flight sim? For that matter Lylat Wars is a FPS as well (or a 3rd person shooter, you can switch camera modes.) RS and LW are shooting games - you shoot stuff.

I would also point out that Banjo-Tooie and DK64 are not just platform games. They have shooting segments, too. As well as loosely sitting in the "Adventure" genre, too.
Conkers BFD is a shooter, too, with a cracking multiplayer.
We should also mention that goldeneye was basically revolutionary in the FPS genre. Intially it was going to be on-rails arcade style like Virtua Cop!!!! Thankfully that didnt happen.

I will grant that in hectic multiplayer most of these games will slow down. But during single player, no, and is anyone suggesting PS or Saturn arent slow - ?? Fs, my Xbox 360 would even lag all the time during online play. Tbh lag is worse now. "Well thats just the internet" - maybe so but if youre gonna take the attitude that Perfect Dark is slow because you only played Multiplayer - which you may say was only bit worth playing - I would disagree but anyway - if tats your argument I can easily also say I can judge 360 and PS3 and modern PCs by online performance, since nobody plays Campaign mode.

As for Saturn, nobody was importing stuff in the 90s.... it just wasnt a thing so dont pretend it was...

And F-Zero X is better, it has lots of depth. Thats before I even mention the extra courses on the DD Cup because, unlike many here, I dont bring up things that literally nobody had as examples of why a console is good. (such as Saturn imports).

All PS1 games are mediocre at best.

N64 is absolute shit. Saturn is nowhere near as good as sega shills try to meme, but there's a couple of beautiful 2D exclusives and I'm a sucker for the saturn RE1 port. Also MMX4 is worth playing over the ps1 version.

>>6258018
>As for Saturn, nobody was importing stuff in the 90s.... it just wasnt a thing so dont pretend it was..
Wrong we had no national chain stores for video games here it was all run by local enthusiasts these guy even imported the Japanese systems way before PAL release. Magazines were full of ads about mail order import games for various systems selling action replays etc and what not.

>>6258018
We know that nobody was importing Saturn games back in the day, we talking about now if you paid any attention to what some of us were saying. And I have all of the 64DD games. Aside from the F Zero Expansion kit, what other DD64 game aside from sim city has replay value? And far as fps goes, perfect dark has better multiplayer than GoldenEye. I don't care about framerate issues cause at the end of the day I bet that you haven't play GoldenEye on 4 players in years. Meanwhile you can play single player multiplayer on perfect dark, probably because they knew that you weren't gonna be playing with friends anytime soon with the introduction of online play.

>>6258034
There was some good stuff - Crash bandicoot (particularly 2 and 3), Metal gear Solid, FF7, JEDI POWER BATTLES, Tekken, Music 2000, Resident Evil series...

Some great stuff, but no long term replayability (I havent touched my PS in years - maybe even decades actually - wheras my N64 is still plugged into my TV and i still play it.

Also, for multiplayer, N64 was the best gen 5, hands down. No contest.

Saturn had some good games too but most of it was just watered down Arcade games (as most Sega stuff is), and it just didnt have enough titles. Nobody was importing Jap games in 1997. Its a false flag.

We should also point out that PS graphics were... not great (especially on the sholveware titles - of which there were loooooads) - and LOADINg times - imagine SemiSonic singing- "Loading time, so finish your 1,000 page book..."

Yeah. It was good but who would play it now.

>>6258062
I remember renting Alien Trilogy on PS1 and compared to Turok 2 it just looked and played like a crap Snes or Megadrive game..

>>6258062
>Nobody was importing Jap games in 1997. Its a false flag.
>It's not true because I didn't do it
Take your pills schizo.

I'm saying, it's 2020 not 1997. There's a chance to play every retro console and game in today's age. Soooo, which system is shit? After the fact of playing both the N64 and Saturn. Again, this question wasn't asked in 1997. And modding consoles/cartridges increases your chances of knowing what the fuck is shit.

>>6258034
I can literally TASTE the salt. Chadstation won for a reason, baby.

>>6256750
>>6256956
>being a nigger
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sega_Saturn_games
>There are currently 1094 Games on this list not including non-game software and compilations of Saturn games.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_64_games
>Of the console's 388 official releases

Why are Nintentoddlers so bad at revisionism and lying?

>>6258084
N64 is the ultimate nostalgia fag console its a staple of their identity

>>6258084
n64 has replayability and in Banjo, Zelda, Pokemon Stadium, etc, like 2 or 3 genres/games in one.
Whenever Saturn comes up its "Nights into Dreams, Panzer Dragoon, "
>and then maybe some import thing nobody talked about in the 90s
Also many of its games were in arcades (arguably in better versions....)
>>6258086

>>6258079
The PS2 will never be retro.

>>6258095
Good, it shouldn't be. Not sure why you brought that up though. I get that you have no arguments, but you should've just taken the L.

>>6258093
>Also many of its games were in arcades (arguably in better versions....)

And non of those games were on N64. Your point?

>>6258123
I would rather have 5 10/10 games that I get years of play out of, than 30 meh games I wont play once completed.

Plus, I was/am a poorfag. In terms of bang for buck, which is how it was then, and still, for me, if someone says "theres 20 great games for this console!" I dont really care either way because i can only afford like 5 - 10 anyway... maybe thats just me.
Certainly as a kid, it was one game per year, basically - for Xmas. maybe a 2nd hand one somewhere if price was right.

This idea that you can just download the entire library and judge contemporaneously as if thats how it was then is just false

Sega of Japan was retarded to rush the Saturn release in the international market, and Bernie Stolar was retarded to try and beat Sony at its game instead of just playing to the Saturn's strengths as a 2D Arcade and JRPG power house. Would have done so much better in the west, even if it had been in second place to Sony. Before the rush, western developers and retailers had such good will towards Sega, and even after the rush, die hard Sega and arcade/jrpg fans would have still kept it on life support had they had access to more of the games that made it number one for a while in Japan.

>>6258110
Sony ruined gaming.

>>6256246 >>6256249 >>6256250 >>6256251 >>6256258 >>6256259 >>6256262 >>6256263 >>6256265 >>6256267 >>6256269 >>6256273 >>6256278 >>6256279 >>6256280 >>6256283 >>6256284 >>6256287 >>6256290 >>6256292 >>6256294 >>6256296 >>6256304 >>6256306 >>6256320 >>6256331 >>6256339 >>6256351 >>6256376 >>6256380 >>6256387 >>6256391 >>6256408 >>6256410 >>6256423 >>6256430 >>6256443 >>6256469 >>6256473 >>6256504 >>6256513 >>6256517 >>6256523 >>6256527 >>6256530 >>6256534 >>6256548 >>6256557 >>6256576 >>6256641 >>6256750 >>6256753 >>6256819 >>6256956 >>6256962 >>6257029 >>6257064 >>6257070 >>6257086 >>6257090 >>6257103 >>6257104 >>6257113 >>6257114 >>6257118 >>6257119 >>6257124 >>6257126 >>6257131 >>6257138 >>6257151 >>6257158 >>6257174 >>6257178 >>6257191 >>6257194 >>6257195 >>6257196 >>6257197 >>6257204 >>6257207 >>6257210 >>6257219 >>6257223 >>6257224 >>6257225 >>6257242 >>6257247 >>6257250 >>6257251 >>6257253 >>6257258 >>6257261 >>6257268 >>6257286 >>6257290 >>6257298 >>6257305 >>6257307 >>6257315 >>6257318 >>6257319 >>6257320 >>6257335 >>6257340 >>6257352 >>6257354 >>6257357 >>6257365 >>6257373 >>6257397 >>6257428 >>6257524 >>6257583 >>6257592 >>6257596 >>6257624 >>6257648 >>6257779 >>6257841 >>6257846 >>6257850 >>6257958 >>6257964 >>6257974 >>6258018 >>6258034 >>6258056 >>6258057 >>6258058 >>6258062 >>6258064 >>6258065 >>6258074 >>6258079 >>6258084 >>6258086 >>6258093 >>6258095 >>6258110 >>6258123 >>6258130 >>6258141 >>6258159
Saturn for life.

>>6258095
Gen 6 is pretty retro desu

I grew up with a N64. The Saturn has a much more enjoyable Library, because 2D >3D in that Gen.

A teenager at the time told me verbatim
>the 64 has better graphics but the playstation has better games
Then he went on to say something about how he wished the 64 used cds which I don't remember as well.
You know what didn't even rate? The Saturn. No one fucking cared.

>>6258141
Even as a Sega fan I can agree with you on their shitty marketing. That's the only criticism of Sega that I don't ever mind agreeing with. Didn't know what they were thinking to hire a former Sony president just to come over and fuck our Sega hopes up.

>>6257335
>>6257340
What is the lore behind the Sonicfag blowing up his TV?

>>6258084
Now weed out all the ports, VNshit, rpgshit, and other shovelware from the Saturn's library.

N64 comes out on top in terms of quality and exclusives.

>>6258305
Yea, for whenever you're playing multiplayer with friends. Otherwise, don't discredit Saturn's library. He showed the links for a reason and I have an everdrive cartridge for the N64. Again, the N64 list of epicness is not enough for my own entertainment. Now for multiplayer and playing with friends I'm all for it.

>>6258305
And if we're gonna to talk about ports, from your N64 collection remove Killer Instinct Gold and anything licensed by Midway. Now what? Don't feel so good huh? Mmmhmmm, head ass.

>>6258093
>>6258305
>anon makes objectively false claim about N64 having larger library than Saturn
>gets btfo with raw numbers, even with an incomplete list of games Saturn is nearly 3 times as large with games in nearly every genre
>NOOOOOOOOOOOO I'M SWITCHING GOALPOSTS TO QUALITY GAMES NOW REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE I DON'T CARE IF THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ORIGINAL CLAIM

Literal petulant child tactic. There's a reason why you'll never shake the Nintoddler stigma. When you're caught in the wrong you run to where ever you can save face, like a baby running to a parent who will give him the most lenient punishment he can bargain for.

>>6258305
>needing a handycap

This lack of self-awareness.

>>6258305
Also remove the 80-90 N64 imports and you're left with a lot of Western bullshit with what? Only about under 10 N64 games are considered 64MB, versus the rest of the games which are from 4MB-40MB. Yea, it's cool to see 3d games on a cartridge, but why Nintendo didn't use the maximum sized cartridges for games? Oh that's right, because they were charging their 3rd party developers money to use the maximum sized cartridges. Which explains why magazines and tech demo videos showed a lot more than the final releases. Prime example, the worst video game of the 5th generation: Superman 64.

You know it's some shit whenever the BETA version of the game is better than the final release.

>>6258084
1094 Games and yet the best the console has to offer is inferior ports and shit like Nights.

>>6258130
>This idea that you can just download the entire library and judge contemporaneously as if thats how it was then is just false
Just like how we can discount Saturn arcade ports now that we can download the original arcade roms in a matter of minutes?

I swear you N64fags need to have some sense bludgeoned into you. Between goal post shifting and complete lack of self awareness you're unquestionably the dumbest, most disingenuous fanboys on the planet. Nintendo could've rigged the N64 to release a cloud of full blown Corona-AIDS and you'd still treat it was the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel.

>>6258343
>Just like how we can discount Saturn arcade ports now that we can download the original arcade roms in a matter of minutes?
Yes. The Saturn is basically obsolete at this point.

>>6258342
300 Games and yet the best the console has to offer is inferior ports and shit like Mario Kart 64.

See I can do it too

>>6258351
The N64 actually has good exclusives like Mario Kart 64. The same criticism doesn't apply here.

>>6258342
I can tell that you've never played more than (inferior) ports and Nights. Your comments don't count against the Saturn. Don't disregard later releases and imports! You gone learn.

>>6258356
You can look at any of the "recommended Saturn games" images and see for yourself that on a pure objective level the majority of the games are either inferior ports or not good.

>>6258347
Yeah, with smeared ass 3D running at 12 FPS, daerth of games in certain genres, and only about two dozen worthwhile games, I agree, N64 is basically obsolete at this point.

>>6256249
based

>>6258359
Name two dozen Saturn games worth playing that aren't ports.

>>6258354
Shit we had exclusives too! Gungriffon, Astal, Guardian Heroes, Panzer Dragoon. And don't make me start naming exclusive imports because Bulk Slash alone blows anything N64 out of the water.

People who grew up on one will always shit on the other, yeah, a childish way to see it, but that's just how it is. In the end it's more ignorance than anything.

>>6258358
I don't need a recommended Saturn list to direct me towards the goods. I'll look up shit myself.

>>6258354
>The N64 actually has good exclusives like first Nintendo game and Rare game that everyone has played to death
Yeah, seriously what a shit system.
>>6258358
>LOOK MOM I POSTED THE INFERIOR PORTS MEME AGAIN!
In that case, the NES, Genesis, and SNES are the shittiest systems ever fucking made, even worse than Saturn because of their inferior ports.

>>6256246
Saturn > ???? > PSX > N64

>>6258363
Bulk Slash is a decent game propped up as some masterpiece by otaku losers because it has anime girls in it.
>>6258370
Can you name me two dozen Saturn games worth playing that aren't ports?

>>6258368
I have both systems so I'm allowed to shit on both. I've shitted on Saturn's Marketing and not giving the US as many games as they gave everyone else in Europe and Japan. And have shitted on N64 for being nothing more than a multiplayer system with few decent single player games. Would be different if I didn't own one or the other but I have them both with just about almost every game.

>>6258371
Lol segatards.

>>6258372
At least you said decent, I'll take it.

Astal, Panzer Dragoon, Panzer Dragoon Zwei, Guardian Heroes, Shinobi Legions, 3 dirty dwarves, Clockwork Knight 1 & 2, Fighters Megamix, Steep Slope Sliders, Mass Destruction, Powerslave, Dark Savior, Legend of Oasis.

Saturn>N64>PS1.
PS1 really offers the least of what I want to play, I rarely go back to it nowadays especially with so many multiplats having better versions elsewhere.

>>6258362
Panzer Dragoon
PD Zwei
PD Saga
Astal
Dragon Force
Dragon Force II
Nights. No, WAAAAAAAAH ITS BAD is not an argument
Burning Rangers
Radiant Silvergun. Single player campaign is entirely exclusive to it.
Bulk Slash
Shining Force III
Shining the Holy Ark
Deep Fear
Grandia
Shining in the Darkness
Psychic Assassin Taromaru
Shinobi Legions
Clockwork Knight
Clockwork Knight 2
Enemy Zero
Fighter's Megamix
Magic Knight Rayearth
Powerslave
Saturn Bomberman
Soul Hackers
Guardian Heroes
Albert Odyssey
Devil Summoner
Wrinkle River Story

I had a Saturn and a PS, for someone like me who was mostly a fan of RPGs and shoot'em ups, the N64 was never a viable choice.

>>6258372
>otaku losers because it has anime girls
Uh oh guys, Chad Thundercock on the Bangladeshi Flip book Forum is going school us on why the Nintoddler 64 is great

>>6258416
I need that Saturn Bomberman, radiant Silvergun and burning rangers. Only 3 missing in my Saturn collection

>>6258409
>Mass Destruction
That one is a port.
>>6258416
Nights does suck, but Deep Fear sucks even worse. Also Burning Rangers is kind of shitty and unfinished but it has good music, just not during gameplay.
>>6258424
t. buttmad otaku loser

Sonygger cope.

>>6258424
He's an idiot, but you're not really coming off as someone much smarter than him by using "Nintoddler".
Just type stuff correctly, you mongs, you aren't grade schoolers. Changing names to mock something isn't funny, or effective.

>>6258402
Roflcoptor Sonyggers.

>>6258372
>Can you name me two dozen Saturn games worth playing that aren't ports?
I cant even name you one dozen PSX games that are worth playing. Enjoy your shovelware platform dude.

Old school console wars were better than this.
I feel like people these days have zero imagination for this crap. No creativity at all.

>>6258435
And? It was a Superior port over PS1 while you were going on about the Saturn having shitty inferior ports.

>>6258435
>I DON'T LIKE THAT GAME IT DOESN'T COUNT!
>I'M A BIG MAN WHO PLAYS MANLY GAMES ON THE BING BING 64!
Absolutely seething
>>6258441
>he's an idiot who is posting retarded bullshit no matter facts you use but u should take the high ground
No offense anon, but you sound like someone who got called a faggot and picked on in middle school and never stoodup for yourself or insulted someone back.

If Nintoddler anon just wants to bullshit and act like he's an alpha on a fucking imageboard, then he'll get treated like the shitposting retard he is.

>>6258475
Gotta be honest it seems more like you're the one who is just a little upset here.

>>6258475
>called a faggot and picked on in middle school and never stoodup for yourself or insulted someone back.
No, there is a difference between calling someone a faggot, and making up unfunny names like "nintoddler", "segatard", etc. The former is an actual insult, the later is something an actual faggot would come up with in order to insult someone. Just call them faggots, anon.
Console warriors are all faggots anyway, no matter the brand they root for.

>>6256249
>>6256250
Kids, say no to drugs.

>>6258476
Well manchildren who think no one can see them shifting goal posts and blatantly lie aren't pleasant. Either way, anyone can see the N64cuck is a dumbass.

>>6258484
>Well manchildren who think no one can see them shifting goal posts and blatantly lie aren't pleasant
So close to self awareness, yet so far.

>>6258476
Have you been on this thread long enough? Cause you would know who came with the insults first. I'm not excluding anything the guy said, but yooooo, N64 fanboy was really in his feels. We went down a list and he kept insulting us, so talk to your N64 pal over in the corner. And self awareness? Ha! You remind me of them old grandpas who need to leave the internet for the rest of the world to do and say as we please.

>>6258476
his "seething" projection is legandary on the interweb, you must be new here....

Out of my way, plebeians.

>>6256249
I could have sworn before I clicked on this thread that this would be the first post.
Shit is getting way too predictable.

>be me
>summer of '98
>ask for a n64 for my birthday, get a saturn
>friends come over for a sleepover
>friends ask if i have mario kart, mario party, or anything
>load up clockwork knight
>it's shit
>load up astal, this looks cool
>gameplay is floaty, it's shit
>friends never come over for a sleepover again

>>6258626
I once went to a sleepover at a friend's house and we spent 3 hours just watching him play Chao Garden.

Depends on your tastes.

The Saturn had a better library overall, but so much of it never left Japan that unless you have mastered moonrunes you're better off with the 64.

>>6257207
It's like you don't want a sharper cleaner image of the N64. You must be using an RF cable.

>>6256249
>>6256962
>>6257113
>>6258034
rent free motherfuckers

>>6256267
im glad we agree.

>>6256296
¿comprende ingles, puto?

PS1
>best overall selection for most genres aside from arguably 3D platformer
>most advancements in graphical capabilities
>best controller(s)
Saturn
>best arcade ports
>ports of PSX games were often fairly interesting (e.g., Castlevania SotN, Resident Evil)
N64
>best 3D platformer selection
>fastest load times
>most "prolific"/landmark games (Zelda, Mario, Rareware FPS titles)

>>6258324
I meant games that people rate, play and talk about. I shouldve been more clear on that. Its true N64 has a small library but for reasons I pointed out above , it doesnt really matter to me since I only buy 5-10 games per system anyway, and I am not bothered about raw numbers of games in and of themself

>>6258420
>RPGs and shoot'em ups, the N64 was never a viable choice.

So, except for the best rpg (Zelda) and best shootemup (goldeneye) of that gen, you mean ? Weird flex, but ok

>>6258343
>Just like how we can discount Saturn arcade ports now that we can download the original arcade roms in a matter of minutes?

I am not saying that, all I am saying is the idea that (unless you were THAT kid who had every console- which perhaps not coincidentally? - the 2 guys I know who had Saturns were) you could judge a console in the 90s by its entire library is just a hoax..
What I mean is that at the time you (or maybe more accurately I) could only have a handful of games (I borrowed and rented others though), and the idea that because theres only [X] number of games on your system, therefore, it sucks, just didnt really feature to my mind. On n64 I played some of the best games I have ever played, so I dont really care if theres no hidden gems. If youre a "genre fan" and werent catered to by N64 - well, what can I say? Different strokes for different folks. There can be no accounting for taste.

What I mean, I guess, was that in terms of raw numbers, I dont really care. In terms of "top 10" or "top 20" style "must play" games, I only ever see Saturn players list 2 or 3 games. Panzer Dragoon, Nights into Dreams, and some import thing literally nobody here played in 1997. Its a total anachronism to suggest otherwise. You are often projecting the present onto the past. i.e. the criticism of "small library" given you can download and play all the talked-about N64 games in a week; this just wasnt the case back then. "hidden gems" that never saw a release here - Sure, ok, but we arent Japanese? So what can I say really?

And you want to talk numbers dude? Look at Saturns sales. Does that say anything to you?

>>6258915
>he considers GoldenEye a schmup

>>6258626
Psssh fuck friends, invite yo bitch over.

>>6258880
>best controller(s)
Nah.

>>6258915
Again we talking about now, we ain't talking about sales from 1997.

I swear people don't read for shit. We already laid out a formula about how bad Sega's marketing was earlier if you paid any attention to this thread. Lol, come on man get with the times! If sales prevented you from actually seeing how good a system is according to YOU, you wasting breath here. Trust me. Me and plenty of other people listed more than 2-3 Saturn games outside of Night's and y'all stay sleepy eye know it alls. Numbers don't mean shit once it's retro. Lol, now go back and tell me which system aged better. If you took advantage of having emulators and ROMs/ISOs on your PC, you'd have a more legitimate answer than "sales". I used to think the same shit till I had a Saturn emulator. Now I have the console with games that I wish that I had given a chance had my young ass at the time wasn't brainwashed away from "sales".

Now tell me, what's the sales results for the retro games of today? Hit up every game store not called GameStop and let me know if sales mean everything to how you go about making purchases.

>>6258880
>>6258958
so good they kept it for 25+ years (lol)

Seriously sony, design a new fkn pad. And a new logo while youre at it. At least a new fuckin font.

>>6258971
>now go back and tell me which system aged better
N64.

>>6258975
Ok then, stick with it and find your friends to play with cause that's the only way to really enjoy it. Lol

>>6258978
It's got great single player games too.

>>6258971
Saturn games nowadays are mostly expensive because theyre more rare. But some n64 and ps1 games can be expensive too.

Im only bringing up numbers because you did. I dont really care about it. Saturn sold ok-ish in Japan, but still not great but anyway- and as Ive also pointed out, Banjo Tooie for example, is a huge game that has platform, "adventure", FPS and racing elements to it. I wouldnt even strictly call Tooie a "platformer" desu, its more of just a "game" with various elements. Like a band that has many influences.

From todays perspective - I dont know, sure maybe Saturn comes out good. For multiplayer though N64 still is the best gen 5 experience, no question.

Are you even the same guy as before? he seemed a lot more butthurt than you do.

>>6258971
Besides if you only want to judge from todays perspective, that seems a lot like "goalpost shifting" .......

If we are to be honest, we should judge from a mix of todays and contemporaneous perspectives. You cant just say "Well I knew how that was going to pan out" -- You didnt because thats impossible.

From todays perspective the Saturn relatively becomes a better machine but IMO still just not as good as N64

>>6258980
Ain't nobody butthurt but the person who keeps bringing up "butthurt" to justify someone's emotions on the internet. I bought up numbers of "titles", not sales.
Boy you slow as I don't know what, I'm the Sega fan who agreed that N64 multiplayer outshine the others, but that's it. And I own both consoles so I know what has entertained me (Saturn) and what puts me to sleep (N64) when it comes to single player games. Both of my systems have a mod to where I have access to every game for each console. Can totally understand if you've had both consoles and have played them both thoroughly, but from the sounds of it doesn't seem like you've given the Saturn a chance to talk down on it.

>>6258990
1) you talk like a nigger

2) Zelda Ocarina puts you to sleep?

The N64 since it didn't even do colored light effects, look at how pathetic the glows are, there's no blend modes, it's just transparencies.

>>6259003

>>6259003
The Saturn did the mesh thing but with some tricks it could do colored light effects with transparencies.

Xena: The Warrior Princess is the only game where I saw these effects on the N64.

Overall the N64 had very dull graphics, blurry, low poly, slow and with horrible 2D games where even the sprites were filtered.

I think they match each other but have strengths in different areas, both can have some ugly graphics because of their weaknesses but I personnaly prefere a good saturn game to a good n64 game. Saturn has all those good arcade games while n64 has some good ones like cruisin usa.
A big problem for n64 is that as the games got newer the framerate got lower, developers decide that 20 fps was acceptable in the middle of the n64s life. Bettle adventure racing is decent fun but the framerate is hard to get used to.

comparision

smash bros - fighers megamix
top gear - sega rally
mario 64 - croc
paper mario - panzer dragoon saga
pokemon puzzle - baku baku

games with no comparison

f-zero
banjo
buck bumble
blast corps
mission impossible
turok
zelda

vf2
nights
virtua cop 2
figting vipers
virua on
panza dragoon
dead or alive

>>6258915
Zelda hasn't been a RPG since Adventure of Link and I don't think you know what a shoot' em up is.

>>6258995
1.) Nigger means ignorant so I think that applies more for yourself.
And 2.) yes, it did put me to sleep. Ocarina of time is soooo overrated. I tried to yes man myself into it but just couldn't. From my childhood days into my adulthood cause I didn't want to feel like I wasted my money but that was how I felt because unlike most of y'all, at least I try out these games that everyone else enjoyed. I'm more of a Metroid fan and there were zero Metroid games on the N64.

Zelda 2 is my favorite and only Zelda game aside from Link's Awakening that I actually enjoyed playing. And I know you Zelda heads be hating on Zelda 2. So a few years ago I sold ocarina of time to someone who would appreciate it more.

>>6258881
>I meant games that people rate, play and talk about.
Again, stop moving goalposts.
>I shouldve been more clear on that so I could've easily saved face
Ftfy.
>I only care about X criteria because of how it affects ME regardless of what objective numbers say
Again, you N64 faggots really underdeveloped children, sad.
>>6258915
>What I mean, I guess, was that in terms of raw numbers, I dont really care.
And I guess, because I don't care about your long winded explanation of hypothetical scenarios to hide how fucking stupid and disingenuous your arguments are, is that you're a full on retard and the N64 pales in comparison to Saturn and I don't care what you think because something something long winded made up scenario.
>I'm not saying that
>meanwhile >>6258093
>Also many of its games were in arcades (arguably in better versions....)

Yeah, you did. Why can't you niggerfaggots read?

>>6258915
>best rpg (Zelda) and best shootemup (goldeneye)
Holy shit you best be jesting nigger.

PC good
Saturn good
N64 good
Jaguar good
3DO good
PS1 bad

>>6256249
t. brainlet

>>6256246
Saturn because it didn't live as long and was buried by the Dreamcast

>>6259038
He must've came from a long shift at work judging a gaming system's play value by sales. Phahaha, I died.

>>6256246
The Saturn by a mile.
I'd burn every Saturn in existence to keep SM64 and OoT.

>>6259036
>>6259041
lol, whatever
>>6259038
I dont care about raw numbers of games in and of themselves. So saturn has 1000 games (how many in your region, anyway?) - so what? Are you going to buy 1000 games? lol.

As for arcade ports, Sega was always the arcade console. Its cool to have infinte replays of an arcade game, but I find the linear style of play to be a bit boring.

Again - moving goalposts? - judging 20 year old consoles by metrics only available today (i.e. emulating entire system libraries) is moving goalposts.

N64 has fewer games but if games are
A) shit
or B) not available in your region
...then literally Who even cares about them ?

And again.... the sales figures speak for themselves. What did Saturn sell in europe? 1, 2 mill? Lol.

>>6259068
>>6259038
As tastes moved away from arcade style games, Sega slipped out the console business.

They were more popular in Japan because arcades are a bigger deal over there and continued to be until much later compared to the West.

And also
1) you are way too assblasted about this.
2) the Saturn isnt shit, but certainly the n64 is better (to answer OPs question.)

>>6259068
This guy is the only person bringing sales into the mix. Don't be mad that imports count, lol. If a game is officially licensed to play on the console it counts so what was the point in your long ass sales summary. We're talking gameplay, not who made more money than who. Good grief dude.

>>6259082
I only mentioned sales to talk numbers to a guy who seems to believe that More = Better and having a wider game library is even relevant when those games werent even released here; and, only a small handful of games have stood the test of time.

Sales wasnt my main point and it sounds like youre projecting by trying to make out it was - we all know the Saturn killed Sega off. Sorry i guess but thems the breaks.

>>6259082
>over 1094 games!
ok so nights into dreams, Panzer Dragoon, Sonic maybe, what else do people even play on Saturn?

>some esoteric Jap roleplay that nobody played at the time but I unearthed in 2009 between wank sessions and discovered my new waifu in
...yea

>>6259083
No I wasn't, I was going by how many more single player games that I enjoyed on the Saturn than the N64 because someone else brought up numbers, not me. I've only read half of your post since I can tell you haven't read this whole thread through.

If you checked my Saturn comments, you would know that I'm one of the only few Sega fans who wasn't into Nights (yet I still own my first copy). And I've mentioned my list like everyone else, but made my list without mentioning Nights unless saying that I didn't really enjoy it.

I'm not usually ignoring people's post, but since you've ignored my list from above I'm gonna tell you to read this thread to yourself and learn before you type. Maybe then I'll read your shit but you're really not thinking this through. At least the N64 Fanboy could conduct a conversation. By the way, aren't you that guy who brought up "self awareness"? Lol

Next anonymous person please ;)

>>6259116
>I was going by how many more single player games that I enjoyed on the Saturn than the N64
You like inferior ports that much?

>>6259116
Numbers were brought up by the retard who believes having more games makes a console better.
By this logic Android is the best gaming system as it has the most games on it.

But one particular number reks Saturn fans more than others.
Why is that, I wonder?

>>6256246
All 3 were wonderful consoles, and the only console that was actually shit was the Saturn if you never knew of its imports.

>>6259085
Back to /a/ pedoweeb.

>>6256246
the saturn is good idea is a meme. Its far worse than N64, thats why no one bought it.

>>6258972
I want them to design the controller larger. Playstation controllers give fatigure after awhile.

>>6259365

>>6258972
Sony computer lacks the competence, and creative capabilities to actually create something of their own. It will not happen.

young me: N64
old me: SS

>>6259690
Friendly reminder that the Saturn port of Daytona USA is shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlDPW6Yx3hM

>>6258972
The PSX controller felt like it was made for human hands at the time.
GCN and Duke were better than PS2.
Wii Classic and 360 were better than PS3.
PS4 is comfy as fuck, use it for my PC.

>>6259704
That's not the circuit edition:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynz5Ou0yIg8

>>6259735
Sony had the right idiea with the second controler and the dual analog, but both had shit build quality and a terrible d-pad and buttons that made extended play a chore for the hands. People make fun of the n64 controler, but at least it didn't murder your hands unless it was a Mario Party game, and the Saturn controlers are some of the best 2D controlers ever made. As you kind of say yourself, it took Sony until the PS4 to finaly make their design worth a damn, not by changing it up much, just finally splurging on the quality components that make an otherwise good design worthwhile.

>>6259704
Soul
>>6259807
Soulless

>>6256408
The PS1 gets some credit for an extra control stick but not the built-in rumble.
With the N64 controller it's an optional add-on, you're not forced to buy a new controller with the rumble

>>6259735
>better than PS2
>better than PS3
>PS4 is comfy as fuck

They are literally all the same.

>>6259371
>I want them to design the controller larger
The DS4 is larger. Larger even, than an xbone controller.
>Playstation controllers give fatigure after awhile
Only if you grip them like a retarded child. The correct way is to float the controller on your middle fingers with your index fingers resting in the gap between their respective shoulder buttons. The palms of your hands should only barely be making contact with the side of the controller.

Retards grip legacy dualshocks by wrapping their fingers around the pegs, and then complain that it cramps their hands when it's not designed to be held that way.

>>6258972
Don't fix what isn't broken.

>>6257151
I had one back in the day, specifically to play the Japanese "port" (abomination) of Symphony. Rayearth was pretty nice I guess. Nights was fun for a minute. Dreamcast was better though, IMO.

>>6260098
The PS4 controller has enough slight differences that it enhances how it feels in your hands. It's slightly bigger, the handles feel less static in their placement, buttons feel less sticky, d-pad is heavily improved, and the R2/L2 buttons don't jut out, and instead are indented inwards to be natural spots to lean your fingers on (this improves control in TPS/OTS/FPS games, as now you no longer use R1/L1, like on the PS3)

The Saturn and the n64 were arguably much more interesting systems than the PS1.
But having more interesting architecture doesn't win console wars. Marketing does. Sega really dropped the ball on forcing the 32x/ rushing the Saturn release on developers/retailers, causing genuine backlash that in hindsight I remember feeling back in the day. As for Nintendo? They already burned bridges by being too strict with 3d party developers in the past, and going cartridge in the age of the CD.

I remember enjoying every game I played on a Saturn, but I didn't know A-N-Y-O-N-E who had one.
I only played them on Toys r Us, gaming stores, the mall, etc.
I need to go back and play Guardian Heroes with a bunch of unknowns, good times.

>>6257195
It only had 50 games.

>>6256548
Segfag in denial!

>>6256246
I don't even know what that mess on the right is.

>>6257029
That's about all it has though. When you venture outside of those genres and beyond the first party Nintendo offerings the gaping holes in the N64 library become hard to ignore.

If all you had was an N64 during the 5th generation, this is how it played out:

You like RPGs? You're fucked.
You like strategy games? You're fucked.
You like fighting games? You're fucked.
You like Arcade games? You're fucked.
You like Shmups? You're fucked.
You like any kind of 2D game? You're fucked.

Sure the Saturn may not have as many 3D Plaformers, 3D racers, and FPS's as the N64, but what it has isn't bad by any means. And overall I'd say the library is far more balanced than the N64.

>>6257131
Gotta love how N64 fanboys will flip flop on what genre a game falls into to try and pad the numbers for the huge gaping holes in the consoles library.

>>6261690
>what it has isn't bad by any means
Literally what did it have? Waifu simulators? Bug? Nights?

>>6261690
>You like RPGs?
Play Paper Mario.
>You like strategy games?
Play Ogre Battle 64.
>You like Arcade games?
Play Sin & Punishment.
>You like fighting games?
Play Fighters Destiny.
>You like Shmups?
Fuck shmups.
>You like any kind of 2D game?
Play Mischief Makers.

>>6261714
>"fuck shmups" while recommending S&P, a 3D shmup

Why are Nintendo fanboys so fucking stupid?

>>6261723
3D Shmup isn't a real genre but even if it was that still isn't a regular shmup.

>>6261726
Yes, it is. What do you think Star Fox 64, Panzer Dragoon and such are?

>>6261736
Rail Shooters.

>>6261739
You don't dodge projectiles and operate in a 3d space in rail shooters.

>>6261746
In some of them you do. Not all rail shooters are light gun games.

>>6261714
>shmups
Eh, Star Soldier is ok. Massive cope tho.

>>6261739
>rail shooter
>not on a rail
Jarpig who doesn't play games spotted.

>>6261770
Literally every website ever classifies PD and SF64 as rail shooters.

>>6261772
>Literally every website ever
Fairly confident that I could google it and in a couple of seconds find plenty of sources complaining about the misconception confusing rail and corridor shooters.
Pretty sure that's already been covered in this thread though, so you really have no excuse.

>>6261784
>Fairly confident that I could google it and in a couple of seconds find plenty of sources complaining about the misconception confusing rail and corridor shooters.
I bet you wont.

>>6261784
Whoah wait I thought I was in the PD and SF64 thread.
Well, anyway, there's a difference.

>>6261785
Well, I did, and one was the top result. Sure is egg on your face, Anon. Gosh.

>>6261787
You're lying.

>>6261791
Your gimmick is boring.

>>6261795
You didn't find anything when you looked it up or you would have posted it.

>>6261796
Yes Anon, it was obvious that was what you were fishing for.
But my job isn't holding zoomer hands. SF64 literally referred to itself that way in the manual.

>>6256548
>Computer gamers were and are faggots
Faggots isnt the right word. Gay ass clowns with zero taste, or self esteem sums these up better. But thenagain i think you could say faggots.

>>6261803
>SF64 literally referred to itself that way in the manual.
No it doesn't. Unless you're gonna start calling Star Fox 64 a "3D scroller with all range mode". Where are the sources you found by searching by the way?

>>6261808
>b-but i thought it was on a rail
What a silly faggot you've been exposed as, after all.

>>6261810
The camera is still on a rail outside of all range mode. It's a rail shooter and literally everybody else but your autistic ass calls it that. Still waiting on those sources.

>>6261814
>w-well what about the camera?
I guess every other game where you can't control the camera is a rail shooter now too. Great thinking, mongoloid.

>>6261819
>I guess every other game where you can't control the camera is a rail shooter now too
No just games that have a camera that is on rails and you shoot things. Why not post one of those sources you found? I mean you did find them right?

>>6261825
>more sources
>now i need more
>that one wasn't good enough, how about another
>i didn't like that source for X reason, now post another
Oh it's this autist.
Shadows of the Empire is a on rails shooter, I never knew. You control the character freely around a 3D environment but you've showed us all it's actually on rails because you can't control the camera.

>>6261814
You're talking to multiple people yet acting like the demands you issue have weight. You're wrong whether or not anybody cares about your transparent challenges.

Here's a whole thread of people who aren't confused about this subject: >>6258965

>>6261834
Your one and only source was the SF64 manual, which believe it or not does not clear up any misconceptions about "confusing rail and corridor shooters".
>>6261838
Maybe you can provide me with some sources.

>>6261710
Croc
Tomb Raider (could also be action adventure I guess?)
Ninpen Manmaru
Pandemonium
NiGHTS
Burning Rangers

Yes, it's not as flooded as the N64 in that genre, but those aren't really bad games.

>>6261714
>Play Paper Mario.
And when I beat it there's nothing left on the system in that Genre? And again Paper Mario isn't really in the same category as say Final Fantasy, Grandia, Lunar, etc.

>Play Ogre Battle 64
Again what happens when I beat that one game? Saturn on the other hand has Shining Force III Sc1, 2, and 3, Wachenroder, Dragon Force, Sakura Wars, etc.

It's pretty sad that even Nintendo found it more worthwhile to put a new Fire Embem game in 2000 on the SNES instead of the N64.

>Play Sin & Punishment.
Not an Arcade game, and again, what happens when you beat it? What's left? The Saturn on the other hand has tons of Arcade games.

>Play Fighters Destiny.
That game is shit and doesn't hold a candle to Virtua Fighter, Fighting Vipers, Last Bronx, Fighter's Megamix, Dead or Alive and the plethora of SNK and Capcom fighters on the Saturn.

>Fuck shmups
Just because you don't like them doesn't mean others don't. It's a big gaping hole in the System's library.

>Play Mischief Makers.
Again what happens after I beat it. On the other hand the Saturn has tons of good 2D games to choose from.

>>6257086
>the list goes on and on...
It doesn't you already said anything worth mentioning. And those games are decent at best.
The same thing you can say about the 3d platformers. I'm glad that fad died in the next gen.

>>6256290
N64 had the best games. That is all.

>>6259010
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9ztLZJhCaQ

Look at the PS1 fire then the N64, the N64 can't do those light effects. The SNES could, N64 was a complete downgrade visually.

N64: I played the only games worth playing while growing up with it: There's not a lot of games
PS1: I grew up with it and barely scratched the surface, there's hundreds of great games on it
Saturn: I had one for a bit and am still discovering new games worth playing constantly, way more than the N64 has.

N64 is the worst of the 3 if you play them all with any regularity.

>>6263805
You're mixing up what N64 could do, and what lazy port programmers could be bothered to do.

>>6256292
>>6256469
>>6257158
>>6257204
Samefag

As someone who had poorfag parents, I dont know why I asked for an N64. The games were $20 more expensive, and I liked RPGs. I wish I knew more of the internal politics that were going on at the time, but finally got a playstation for christmas '99 (only to lose everything in a house fire seven months later).

>>6263805
Fire, smoke and particle effects almost always looked better on psx. RE2/3 is probably the best use of it.

>>6263814
>I played the only games worth playing while growing up with it
You played stuff like Bangai-O or Goemon's Great Adventure growing up?

>>6263932
Yeah, I played all the Goemon games released in America growing up. I got lucky and had weird taste as a kid so I liked more offbeat games. Bangai-O I played on Dreamcast.

>>6263937
Huh, interesting.
Do you have a list of the N64 games you played as a kid? I'm curious to see which ones you consider "the only ones worth playing".
Also, N64 Bangai-O is different from the DC version, worth a shot if you liked the DC one, N64 one is more challenging, and controls better.

>>6263938
I could post one, but it would take a while because I have to leave to be somewhere now. If you want, check back tonight around 10pm est and I'll have posted it.

>>6263945
Nice, I'll be sure to check tomorrow because I won't be home tonight, but be sure to leave the list.

>>6261690

You

Like

Reddit?

>>6256469
Golden 007 is overrated

>>6256473
Did you know that Die Hard wasn’t originally it own game. Prefer JP ver.

>>6256430
>S o y b o y
PS1 wasn’t good

>>6256576
Zoomer console

>>6263856
>Lazy Port Programmers

So when N64 fans want to brag about RE2 they say the developers who ported it were miracle genius programmers, but when any downgrade is apparent due to actual hardware differences and limitations, suddenly they become lazy port programmers.

Which one is it? You can't pick both.

>obvious Sonyboy thread to make Saturn and N64 fans argue with each other
>instead, it turns into Sony fans arguing with Sega and nintendo fans, as always
You niggers can't even conclude your plans accordingly, you always have to chimp out.

>>6263781
I'll give you that the top ten N64 games beat out the top ten PSX games in terms of polish and value.

>>6256956
>get owned
>use childish comeback
noice

>>6264105
How big is the RE2 ROM size? Is there any other games on the system that had FMVs? I remember getting bummed out over slideshows or just converting the scenes to run in the game engine.

>>6261814
>gets proven wrong
>will continue to double down until 404 to due to a pathological inability to admit fault
Yep, definitely on /vr/.

>>6257029
sega rally on saturn is pretty fucking god tier tbqhwy
FZero X is pretty good though

>>6264343
It's 64MB last I checked, the largest N64 cart size. And it uses a ton of advance compression to make it all fit.

As for other games with FMV on the N64, the only other one I know of is Pokemon Puzzle League.

>>6264345
Where was I proven wrong? There is no such thing as a corridor shooter, that term is used to describe semi modern FPS games with hallway levels. Rail shooter doesn't mean you can't move the character in the game.

>>6263938
>>6263948
>Do you have a list of the N64 games you played as a kid?
1. Pilot Wings (1996)
2. Mario 64
3. Turok (1997)
4. Mario Kart 64
5. Star Fox 64
6. Goldeneye
7. Mischief Makers
8. Doom 64
9. Duke Nukem 64
10. Yoshi Story (1998)
11. Blast Corps
12. Cruisin USA
13. Bomberman 64
14. Mortal Kombat Sub-Zero
15. Glover
16. Ocarina of Time
17. Mission: Impossible
18. Quake 64
19. Banjo Kazooie (1999)
20. Quest 64
21. South Park
22. Fighting Force
23. Turok 2
24. Mario Party 2
25. Pokemon Snap
26. Pokemon Stadium
27. Kirby 64 (2000)
28. Mario Party 2
29. Super Smash Bros.
30. Rayman 2
31. Quake 2
32. Jet Force Gemini
33. Duke Nukem Zero Hour
34. Mario Party 1
35. Mario Party 3
36. Ridge Racer 64
37. Turok Rage Wars
38. Majora's Mask (2001)
39. Mega Man 64
40. Paper Mario
41. Pokemon Stadium 2
42. Star Wars: Episode I: Battle for Naboo
43. Star Wars: Episode I: Racer
44. Goemon's Great Adventure
45. Harvest Moon 64
46. Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon
47. Perfect Dark

That's everything I can recall playing as a kid and the general order I recall playing them, I've rounded myself out with games I missed at the time like Tooie and a few Japanese titles. I spent about the same time with the PS1. Many of these games were also rentals.

>>6257124
>>6257126
Soul

>>6261662
Then you can go back to /v/

>>6264345
>pathological inability to admit fault
narcissism

>>6265314
Other than some stinkers like Sub-Zero, nice list.
You still missed some good games though, like Wave Race, F-Zero X, 1080 (EAD's trilogy of arcade racers, they're a must)

>>6267198
1080 sucks, swap it out with MK64.

>>6267201
I used to not give a shit about 1080 because I don't care about snowboarding, but once I actually got the hang of it, it really is a great game. Pulling off a 1080 can be bullshit, though.
Great soundtrack as well.

>>6267198
Only as a kid, played them all later on.

>>6256249
based

>>6259068
>judging 20 year old consoles by metrics only available today (i.e. emulating entire system libraries) is moving goalposts.
>YOU ARE ONLY SUPPOSED TO JUDGE BY THE CRITERIA OF THIS TIME PERIOD
Cringe harder reddit
>N64 has fewer games but if games are
>A) shit
But they're not. You saying they're shit isn't an argument.
>B) not available in your region
...then literally Who even cares about them ?
Perhaps the people who were savvy enough to import them back in 1997. There, your goal post about judging games how they were 20 years ago is negated. kys unironically
>>6261714
>You like this genre? Here, play this one game in said genre that's in almost single capacity on the N64 while in abundance on PS1 and Saturn
N64cucks everyone.

>>6261714
>Sin & Punishment.
>arcade

>>6267203
It would be awesome if a romhack came out that changed the way you do spin tricks, and made landing just slightly more forgivable. I played the fuck out of it back in the day, and was pretty good at it, but I'm pretty sure that game is what ruined my first controller's analog stick. Pretty crappy implementation.

>>6256249
Like super woke bro. Hold my star bucks with almond milk.

>>6263918
Metal Gear games had neat effects too, plus the PS could do motion blur using the framebuffer texture feature.

The N64 was lacking in many areas, the polygons were so low, character models always had that blocky look, the textures were mostly large square pixels filtered and tiled to the extreme the ones that weren't, no light effects, color mode was weird, like it's a very limited color range, colors were never bright and vibrant. I still enjoy playing the N64 games but they really need to be remastered.

Playstation emulated looks great, PCSX Perspective Correct Texturing makes the games look really good.

Saturn wasn't that much better with the freakign mesh but with emulation you can turn the mesh into real transparency.

https://www.mattgreer.org/articles/sega-saturn-and-transparency/

>>6257029
>greatest 3D platformers,
Aight. PS1 had some that were better but the average quality was higher on 64.
>FPS's
I didn't know the 64 had Blood, Duke, DooM, Outlaws, AvP, Heretic, Hexen, and a slew of others. I just thought it had that shitty Bond game that was no good til it got mouse support 20 years later and really shitty ports of better games. PS1 had FPS games with fucking mouse and keyboard control that even let you disable mouse acceleration.
>and racing games
The full potential of Diddy Kong racing was never realized. CTR exists, however.

>>6267559
To be fair, on most TVs in the 90's using composite, the Mesh effect worked.

When it comes to transparencies though, the PS1 is definitely the king of that generation. The Saturn can produce decent transparencies when you can get the stars to align just right, but if that doesn't happen you'll have to resort to meshes. N64's transparencies are pretty much on par with the best the Saturn can do, but it can do them almost all the time.

Why does this 5th gen have the worst console warriors

>>6267570
That's a lot of sonygger cope.
N64 has an exclusive doom entry. PS desn't

>>6267616
A completely different and unique version of Quake II as well.

>>6267616
Playstation has an exclusive doom entry. The Custom Playstation edition.

>>6267559
>the polygons were so low
N64 has way more polygons than Playstation does. What's confusing you here is that most Playstation games are using every single polygon on the character models while the N64 is rendering the entire environment in 3d.

>>6261714
>fuck shmups
What an absolute bitch

>>6256249
>>6256250
BASED

and

Redpilled

>>6259003
jesus fucking christ... stop talking about shit you don't know anything about. when you clog your fucking toilet, do you also recommend to the plumber why his tools suck and why he should use your's?

go back to /pol/ nigger

Console warring is for small children.

>>6268032
Delicious whiny anti-consolewarrior tears.

>>6267630
>N64 has way more polygons than Playstation does. What's confusing you here is that most Playstation games are using every single polygon on the character models while the N64 is rendering the entire environment in 3d.

Actually no, the other guy is closer to being right here. The N64 is actually slower at rendering polygons than the PS1 and even the Saturn to an extent. So many games do have surprisingly low polygon counts per frame. The big difference though is that the N64 can draw perspective correct polygons. So as a result it can get away with drawing huge polygons with out having to worry about texture warping, where as on the Saturn and PS1 they have to subdivide the polygons as they get closer to the camera to avoid that issue.

So in the end the N64 is rendering less polygons than the PS1 and Saturn, but it can sort of get away with it by drawing bigger ones.

>>6267616
The Playstation has Final Fantasy and is practically overflowing with JRPGs and Strategy games. The N64 just has 1 or 2 games that its fanboys flip flop on what genre they are to try and fill the gaping holes in its library.

The Playstation has the best Castlevania game of that Generation, while the N64 has 2 mediocre 3D entries the creators would rather you forget exist.

The Playstation has a classic Megaman game, 4 entries in the X Series, and 2 entries in the Legends series. The N64 just has a meh port of the first Legends game.

The Playstation has 3 major entries in the Resident Evil series, the N64 just has a late and crippled port of the 2nd game.

The Playstation has Metal Gear Solid, the N64 doesn't.

The Playstation has a ton of actual good Arcade style fighting games. The N64 has a party brawler, a crap port of MKT, and then a handful of games no one remembers or gives a shit about.

both saturn and ps1 take a massive smelly dump on miyamotos ugly face

and Im saying that having grown up with only a n64

>>6268076
based. fuck nintendo.

>>6268058
Final Fantasy was a big deal, but Megaman and Castlevania were spent by then. Yes, Playstation had better entries than N64, but they were still crap compared to any given 4th gen entry.

>>6257207
>>digital output
>It's like you what there to be input lag.
Y'know what's real bullshit? That doesn't have to be true. The original DVI spec, and by extension HDMI, still included analog CRT compliant H-Blank and V-Blank timing. They were literally designed as a near 1:1 digital replacement for component video with knobs on. The fact that everyone who implemented it did so on a digital display with a sample and hold framebuffer was just because no one likes gamers and so don't ask them what they'd like first.

>>6268102
>T-T-THEY WEREN'T THAT GOOD ON PS1 ANYWAY SO IT'S GOOD THEY DIDN'T COME OUT ON N64
Holy cope batman.
>Castlevania were spent by then
Hence why they changed up its formula, dumbass.

>>6264105
>Which one is it? You can't pick both.
Of course you can. Don't be absurd. Otherwise how can PC master race constantly whine about lazy ports when they have ostensibly many-many times the power of the consoles the games come from?

>>6267616
I'm not a Sonygger. I like both. PS1 had fucking mouse control for its shooters, get rekt. The shooters on 64 were either bad or ports. You didn't have the same kind of shooters as on the PC; just worse versions or originals that were simpler and less fun. N64 DID have DooM 64, to be fair. You also ignored that I said the average quality of the platformers on 64 was higher.

>>6264180
they know their games can't compare with the best of Nintendo and Sega.

>>6256246
the 64 had less good games, so the 64

>>6256246

Playstation. The Saturn was great and so was N64.

>>6268606
/thread

>>6268606
>The Saturn was a flop and so was N64.
ftfy
stay forever butthurt chadstation killed off your beloved segay and shitendo

>>6268638
seek help

>>6268638
Typical sonygger. No one cared how many consoles were sold till sony came along, and conditioned their low IQ audience that somehow the sheer amount of sold units equals quality.

first time on 4 chan should i be scared ik ima sound like a stupid 12 yr old when i post this

>>6267630
what's custom about PSX Doom? aren't the levels the same as on PC?

>>6268670
>NES dominates the '80s
>GO NINTENDO!!
>Megadrive usurps nintendo in the early '90s
>GO SEGA!!
>Sony takes over the industry
>i-i-it's just not fair bros...

You anti-Sony cucks are so cute.

>>6268873
Here's the thing, console warriors are bad in general, Ninendo and Sega fanboys as well.
The thing with Sony fanboys is that they're the most annoying of all, for whatever reason, and the fact Sony is a corporation instead of a dedicated video game company makes the matter even worse.
I don't even hate Sony, they're just there for me... the PlayStation feels like a sort of "template" system for third party devs to put stuff on. Whereas Sega and Nintendo feel more personalized, since they are dedicated video game companies. But my problem isn't Sony or the PS at all, it's Sony fanboys. They are the most annoying of the bunch, and this has been proven time and time again.

>>6268195
PC gamers are calling them lazy ports period. They don't flip flop on calling them miracle ports to win one argument then turn around and call them lazy ports to suit another.