/vr/ - Retro Games

It's better than Trigger but obviously being better than a 5/10 isn't much to write home about.

>>6291549
It's a great game, but it's controversial as a sequel to Chrono Trigger.

I'm not a fan, but I certainly wouldn't use GameFaqs to judge either way. Anything good on there is long since locked or updated.

>>6291549
Worse gameplay than Trigger.
Shitty quantity over quality cast.
Atrocious story/writing.
Better art/music.

>>6291549
Chrono Cross is a great game. It gets a lot of hate in retrospect because fans were disappointed with what it did with the story, and how a lot of the party members were not very developed if at all, like the opposite of Trigger. Just treat it like it's own game and you'll appreciate it for being a visual feat with an amazing soundtrack and atmosphere, with an interesting combat system that has a deck building mechanic.

>>6291549
>mostly 0.5 and 5 star reviews
Embarrassing. You can't have half a brain and think that it's a 1/10 nor a 10/10.

It is for teenagers

>>6291583
most games are

>>6291586
That said i enjoyed it more than it's predecessor. When I was a teenager.

The only real flaw it has is that it is too easy. Other than that, it is a great experimental title that accomplished everything it set out to do artistically (make grown men upset), and remains as vibrant as ever in my teenage memories.

9 out of 10 critiques of it are uneducated. If you were mad that it had none of the characters from the other game, or that it had too many characters, you are missing the point. In fact, I would go as far to say that the narrative distance the two stories have between one another is what makes it work so well.

>>6291560
>Shitty quantity over quality cast.
This is the only thing that's kept my interest low for this game. I hate large casts in games

>>6291604
I see why a lot of people dislike it, but I think large casts are cool sometimes. I love collecting all the characters.

You know, what really makes it a classic is how divisive it is. You can immediately tell what sort of person someone is by asking if they "liked it" or not.

>>6291598
>The only real flaw it has is that it is too easy.
This is the unfortunate truth with many JRPGs. That said, I would say the difficulty before getting the Mastermune is pretty balanced, not too difficult but you have bosses like Miguel who are actually pretty tough. After the Mastermune, only the Sphinx poses a potential threat and can be easily cheesed.(I don't remember how hard Slash, Flea and Ozzy were)
>>6291604
I would say go for it then, yes there's a lot of shitty characters like Poshu or whatever, but there's gonna be a few you're bound to think are pretty cool like Grobyc or Glenn. The large cast never bothered me in this game, I thought it was enjoyable enough finding all the ways to recruit them in the first place.

>>6291618
>classic
it's barely mentioned outside of die-hard PS1-era Square fans.

>>6291618
Out of curiosity, what can you exactly tell about a person by asking that question, do you just mean their taste in vidya?

>>6291621
>I would say go for it then
Do the dialogue and story center around a few of them?

>>6291627
Technically speaking, there are some side characters that get more development than others. The main story is focused mainly on Serge, Kid and Lynx, and Scala

>>6291625
>Out of curiosity, what can you exactly tell about a person by asking that question
Not that guy, but certain games/books/movies are good litmus tests. You can tell a lot about someone, or at least make some good guesses

>>6291631
I posted a picture of Karsh but it would probably be more appropriate to say that Nikki and Fargo get some of the most attention in the game,and are directly related to advancing the story.

>>6291625
If you've experienced enough of the world, stories and other pieces of entertainment start to open up like a manifold.

The more we grow up, the easier it becomes to take things at face value. People can learn to interpret author's intent better the more they mature. This is true for anything, books, movies, you name it

Chrono Cross, at its core, is a story about not getting what you want. It is a story full of characters getting so caught up in their own pursuits that they lose sight of the bigger picture and what's important. It's about learning to appreciate what you have.

At the end of the game, in the default "bad" end, the player character is sent back to the beach where the game started, with all the memories he gained, but no way to return. This same thing happens in the "good" ending, where the Chrono Cross element is used properly. There is no resolution or happy ending.

The feeling of powerlessness over how big the world is conveyed perfectly and palpably. It's what the game is all about, not getting what you wanted, but realizing the value in what you have, which can turn out to be even better than what you were looking for.

>>6291615
>I see why a lot of people dislike it, but I think large casts are cool sometimes. I love collecting all the characters.
I generally can't stand the writing for the majority of characters in rpgs anyways, so I don't mind if party members are just cool looking peeps with next to no story.

so, how many playthroughs is this game worth?

>>6291672
If you're trying to collect the character you opted not to get on NG+, then you can get them in your party and then there's an option to go right to the final boss and prematurely beat the game at any point. Once you've recruited every party member and maybe get all their third tier tech, the only thing I remember being worth while was fighting the boys in NG+.

Its complete dogshit, got half way through and just couldn't bring myself to finish it. Trigger on the other hand practically plays itself.

>>6291557
These reviews are quite old.

Why does radical dreamers attract so many autists?

>>6291913
Hmmm maybe because it's a niche japan only game that isnt even an rpg at that hmmmmmmmm really makes you think

>>6291549
It's the Jim Belushi of JRPGs.

>>6291913
It looked fantastic for what it was

>>6291551
fpbp

Is it worth using any party other than Serge + Double Einlanzer Glenn + a thief (probably kid because plot)?

I love CT and CC, but CT only fanboys are the absolute worst.

>Dur why wasn't it a direct sequel???

Because it'd be fucking boring fanwank shit like Advent Children or something?

>>6291549
This looks like a mirror of /vr/
You either hate it or love it, there's no in-between.

>>6292164
The developer decided to call it Chrono Cross, they specifically tried to bait fans into buying what they naturally thought would be a sequel. I enjoy both games but absolutely fuck the devs for trying to steal money from people by not being honest in their advertising.

Chrome cross is great.

I actually like the combat a lot once you're deeper in the game and have more options.

Art direction and music are amazing.

The only let down is the story needed better editing/focus. Would be been better with fewer recruitable characters with more fleshed out backstories.

Yeah it's got problems. But it's still a 8.5/10 game. Essential for jrpg fans

>>6292198
Except the ways it is a sequel to CT make me love CC even more (I didn't understand it fully because of how old I was when I played it. CT made me perfect sense to me despite me being in grade school)

Plus alternate dimensions is a cool alternative to time travel

I feel like there's a certain brand of autists that can only accept sequels if they're a certain way. Like how Halloween 3 is easily better than 2, 4, 5, etc, but isn't liked because it didn't feature a meme character

>>6292198
Except the ways it is a sequel to CT make me love CC even more now that I'm an adult (I didn't understand it fully because of how old I was when I played it. CT made perfect sense to me despite me being in grade school)

Plus alternate dimensions is a cool alternative to time travel

I feel like there's a certain brand of autists that can only accept sequels if they're a certain way. Like how Halloween 3 is easily better than 2, 4, 5, etc, but isn't liked because it didn't feature a meme character

It's as good as Chrono Trigger, definitely worth playing.
I ignored it for years because I couldn't get into the "greasy-looking" character designs and it was a mistake. Fantastic game.

It's a very good game, but if you come into it wanting Chrono Trigger 2 you're going to be very upset. It may as well be its own IP were it not for certain twists later on

>>6292010
Except for the OST, everything else is really bad.

>>6292164
Accurate but the fan on the right needs to whine at the fact that they technically killed off characters from Chrono Trigger and never shut up about it.

>>6292142
Good team, but I like using Zoah, Grobyc and Norris a lot too in my teams.

The same happens to other games that are very different from the (admittedly superior) prequels.
Yoshi's Story is a good example. On its own it's a cute little 2D game that can have some actual depth in gameplay and looks fantastic, but when compared to Yoshi's Island, which everyone does, it falls very short.

>>6291549
No. No it is not.

It is not a faithful sequel to Trigger- Masato Kato is on record for not having liked CT's plot (and its *time travel*) so already you have the guy who liked the first game the least of the dev original team now running the show. The game's story is shoddy, and railroading not just the plot's progression but it railroads its Humanity Sucks themes that are counter intuitive to the hopeful messages of CT, while also retconning parts of CT's plot and also creates lies of omission in the process. Also, the loose plot threads of CT are basically ignored. I sure did love to waste time building a clown skeleton or hang out with a fucking moronic pink turd dog instead of getting a story that actually HAD Magus play a role in it.

But even putting its failure plot aside, the game has too many fucking characters. Having nearly 40 characters robs ANY of them from having plot significance,which is bad enough but it affects the game play horribly. You HAVE to have Serge/Lynx in your party of three. So you can only pick any given two characters, but you HAVE to use one of 3 characters (1 leaves with the plot, 1 is optional so you p. much have to use the remaining one.)

Sure the music is good, but Cross was not a great sequel by any stretch.

>>6293706
God dammit. You have to have one of 3 characters who are the only ones who can steal shit, thus necessitating their use if you want the best gear.

Never played it (it's in my backlog, tho), but it makes Trigger purists super mad and that's always fun to see.

>>6293717
I think it's less Trigger purists and more the general public who shits on it casually.
It's the die-hard Cross fans who are always mad and crying about it.

>>6293723
>the general public who shits on it casually.
Bullshit, the game is way to niche for that to be true.
>It's the die-hard Cross fans who are always mad and crying about it.
>The fans of Chrono Cross are the ones who are seething, not us!
I'm sorry but this just looks pathetic. Just accept that Cross has it's own fans and move on.

>>6294016
>Just accept that Cross has it's own fans and move on.
lol but that's what I said, that Cross has fans.
>the game is way to niche for that to be true.
It's still a Square PS1 RPG, it's not that obscure. The general public know it as "that one weird CT sequel that sucks". Frankly, I don't think it deserves the hate myself, but I also don't think the people shitting on it are "Trigger purists". It's just people shitting on games that are agreed to not be as good as their predecessors. Most of it is parroting.

>>6294019
>The general public know it as "that one weird CT sequel that sucks".
This isn't really the case, though. The game was very well received, it just didn't sell that well. People who did play it at the time liked it, and people who didn't, the general public, have absolutely no opinion on it.
The majority of it's criticisms are for the game's story, which upset core fans of Trigger, so yeah, mostly it is just Trigger fans.

>>6294028
>People who did play it at the time liked it, and people who didn't, the general public, have absolutely no opinion on it.
That's back then, now we're on the Youtube era. Hot takes and opinions become popular.
Kinda like how Castlevania 64 received positive reviews, or moderate at best, but zoomers now treat it as some abomination that everyone hated.
>The majority of it's criticisms are for the game's story
The majority of the criticism is about the game system and how there's hundreds of characters, that, coupled with the fact it's a sequel to Trigger. But by saying "Trigger fans" you're really including like 90% of the RPG fans, both hardcore and casual. CT is in every top 10 list.
So, more than very hardcore Trigger fanboys shitting on it, I'm pretty sure it's the more casual "video game fan" who loves CT and heard by some Youtuber that Cross is terrible because so and so, not necessarily because of autistic plot elements only Chrono fanboys know about.

gameplay is bad

story is bad

music is good

>>6294037
>That's back then, now we're on the Youtube era. Hot takes and opinions become popular.
Kinda like how Castlevania 64 received positive reviews, or moderate at best, but zoomers now treat it as some abomination that everyone hated.
Really? If you go on Youtube right now and look up Chrono Cross, most of the videos that pop up are actually looking at the game in positive light, in fact one of the most viewed Chrono Cross videos on Youtube is literally calling the game a "masterpiece" not that I agree with that statement anyway. I actually am pretty convinced that the majority of people, who have played the game, even today actually think that even though it's flawed it's still a great game.

>So, more than very hardcore Trigger fanboys shitting on it, I'm pretty sure it's the more casual "video game fan" who loves CT and heard by some Youtuber that Cross is terrible because so and so
But yet again, when I said Trigger fans, I wasn't actually talking about all of them. There are a fair share of people who are a fan of both games so I don't think it's the entirety of the gamers who like Chrono Trigger are hating on it, sorry if I didn't clarify.

The most vitriolic people get about this game is on some forums and even this image board. I don't think the majority of people dislike Chrono Cross, that said you're right about people complaining about the abundance of character, though regarding the other aspects of gameplay, it's not really too controversial and I actually like the deck building with elements. The reasons why the party member aspect is so heavily criticized is because it directly impacted the quality of the story.

>>6291549
>first review
>the game that killed the series I love
>series
???

>>6294103
Gives you a real sense of how moronic people who review shit on gamefaqs can be

its a great game, ppl who dislike it are either too low iq or are just flat out being disingenuous

That intro FMV still gives me the chills.

>>6294107
I'm sure a lot of them, especially the older reviews, were written by middle school/high school kids. I remember my friend writing GameFAQs reviews back then.

>>6291549
I think Chrono Cross is a great game. I don't really like the end though, and I wish there was a sequel.

>>6291549
killed the chrono franchise, that alone would tell you something!
no new game in the series for the last 20 years prove how bad this game was!

>>6291549
>reviews are severely split
Because the game itself is severely split
>retcons the best parts from the first game and pointlessly kills off the main characters (but not I guess due to quantum mechanics? who fucking gives a shit)
>disagreements and infighting within the writing staff
>notably bat-shit and disjointed story which is saying alot even when compared to other RPGs of the era
>Too many characters with too many pointless dialogue trees
>spell trap system sucks unless you study a walkthrough
BUT
>The games looks like a masterpiece
>As is the music
>Top tier aesthetics
>You do FEEL for some of the characters
>Battles can be fun
>Not much grinding

>>6291549
>Seems like reviews are severely split
That's how you know a game is good.

>>6291551
fpbp

>>6291549
Not.

Biggest disappointment ever released, and it was alllll downhill from there.

>>6291694
Based and truth pilled.

>>6291913
There was a reason it was released on BS as a side story and not officially for the Snes or any other system. It should have stayed that way, as a unique clique, just like feminism.

When a game is bombarded with 1 star reviews like that you know it's good

>>6292010
It's rated as really mediocre at vndb

>>6294567
>its a not great game, ppl who like it are either too low iq or are just flat out being disingenuous

Fixed that for ya.

>>6299198
I don't know, Radical Dreamers is not some groundbreaking piece of media but it's a really charming and short but sweet little side story dungeon crawl sorta scenario. I feel like it was everything it needed to be.

>>6291565
I honestly really do wish they focused on a few party members. It's just that you realize that when a character joins your party, they stop having character development. Same thing with Magus in CT.

>>6291621
>This is the unfortunate truth with many JRPGs.

I wonder, did many peole find IX difficult? I found the last boss to be really hard and I feel like I used “cheap” strategies most peole wouldn’t bother to do. Such as grinding auto haste and auto regen on my party and using all physical attackers with items instead of white magic.

>>6299305
When it came to Chrono Cross, it honestly felt like the alternate versions of your party members (the version of them NOT in your party) ended up having more to say than the one within your party, which I guess can count as character development in a weird sense. For example, Fargo and Nikki from homeworld I think actually had their own personal moments, more than Nikki when he joins your party.

>>6291551
Back to >>>/v/ contrarian zoomie.

>>6291565
>in retrospect
Nice lie.
It bombed in Japan and before the game even came out many people complained about it.

>>6294056
>Kinda like how Castlevania 64 received positive reviews, or moderate at best, but zoomers now treat it as some abomination that everyone hated.
Critical reception =/= Audience reception
Everybody hated Castlevania 64 because not only was it a shitty Castlevania it was a very mediocre game too. Who are you trying to fool with this shit?

>>6294103
>>6294107
Terminology aside he's right.
Cross(and later the DS iteration of Chrono Trigger with its asspull retcons) killed any chance of Chrono Trigger every having a proper sequel.

Disgusting that Sakaguchi got denied making sequels for Chrono Trigger only for Square to turn around and greenlit this Cross garbage later.

>>6300270
>He doesn't know
https://youtu.be/w3SU5dDBwCI

Cross is as good of a sequel as you could hope to get for a game based on time travel. I mean, what would a “faithful” sequel to CT have been? “Uh, someone’s messing up the timeline... again!” You already fixed everything in that timespan, not that CT’s definition of time travel/timelines makes any sense anyway. At least Cross tried to take it in an unusual direction, where spacetime is being basically corrupted instead.

Trust me, if you’d gotten what you wanted with a direct CT2, it would have just felt stale.

>>6291549
It's an enjoyable game with serious flaws, and being a followup to Chrono Trigger made those flaws all the more polarizing.

>>6300343
I agree, though I do think they should've left the Magus plotline in the game since they bothered to have Scala be in the game. It was going to be in the game, but they axed it for some reason.

Like with Xenogears, it's really hard for me to tell how much I'm able to forgive the flaws of this game on the rest of the game's other merits, and how much of it is because of the Yasunori Mitsuda soundtrack.

>>6298527
>reviews are severely split
94% from professional reviewers. Doesn't look very 'split' to me.

People who played Chrono Trigger first -> 1 star
People who played Chrono Cross first -> 5 stars

People who enjoyed both -> smart enough to not write reviews on fucking GameFaqs

>>6301825
Thanks for chiming in. I was responding to OPs statement.
>reviewers
meaningless

>>6302471
>meaningless
If they were meaningless, devs wouldn't get bonuses contingent on metacritic (professional critic only) score. Whether or not you personally 'believe' in their importance is entirely irrelevant to the reality of their importance both to the people making the games, the people funding said developers, and the people buying the games.

You're just a childish contrarian.

>>6302670
Not him, but although professional reviews aren't meaningless for the reasons you stated, they ought to be considered meaningless. The quality of professional reviews generally isn't anything special.

>>6302676
That said, when looking at old games, it's useful for historical perspective. It's worth noting that Chrono Cross got great reception from game magazines.

>>6302680
so in summary: first impressions from the industry were good but CC did not stand the test of time.

>>6291549
I played it when it came out when I was in high school. Enjoyed it thoroughly.

>>6302689
Arguably. I wouldn't say that personally, because I love the game and think it holds up great. But it's interesting that even in OP's screenshot the oldest reviews generally seem more positive. Too busy to check the rest of the GameFAQs reviews and average them to verify.

>>6291623
Well, you're just wrong about that.
It's a fairly popular JRPG and anyone familiar with /vr/ would know that.

>>6291549
It's one of the best RPGs of it's generation, OP.
I recommend playing it right after Trigger so you can understand how retarded this whole discussion is.

>caring about GameFAQs reviews written by then 8 year olds in the year 2000

>>6302707
Probably more like 12-13. At least that's how old my friend was when he wrote GameFAQs reviews.

>>6302676
>they ought to be considered meaningless
Why? They've proven to be a decent barometer of a game's quality. For specifics, find a reviewer whose personal tastes align with yours, and they'll probably do a pretty good job of letting you know whether or not a game is worth your time.
>The quality of professional reviews generally isn't anything special.
They are, on average, of far greater standard than user reviews. Pick a game, and pull a review for said game from any mainstream outlet. Now compare that review against a random sample of user reviews on steam, or amazon, or metacritic. I guarantee the mainstream tranny gaymes journo is going to be infinitely more informative than the 60IQ niggers posting your average "publisher did something i hate 0/10 >:(" or "wow 10/10 good game :-DDD" user review.

>>6302738
Good points, I was being a little over-the-top.

>>6302738
>on average, of far greater standard than user reviews
Why? because they get paid to do it? Even if they are some sort of "expert" is it just because they play games all day? The majority of paid reviews from that era were "this game is rad to the extreme dude! The fun factor rating is OFF THE CHARTS! YOU SHOULD TOTALLY BUY IT!" and they are not that much better nowadays.
The only review score worth a good god damn is the user meta score and this has only become more apparent over time. Otherwise why would studios attempt to tamper with them so frequently?

>>6303581
>they are not that much better nowadays
They're worse nowadays, if you're counting major outlets. Game reviews have always been subject to industry pressure, but there used to be a fairly significant number of games magazines compared to the number of websites now that both get traffic and pay their reviewers. Ratings are so inflated at this point that people will interpret a 7/10 as a scathingly negative review, indicative of a barely playable mess. Less consolidation back then meant you were more likely to read a review that wasn't basically a marketing blurb.

>>6291549
>49▶>>6291553 >>6291560 >>6291565 >>6291567 >>6291997 >>6292182 >>6293706 >>6294103 >>6296424 >>6298453 >>6298527 >>6299081 >>6299182 >>6300347 >>6302691 >>6302697
>>6291551
>>6291553
>>6291557
>>6302738
>>6302707
>>6302697
>>6302695
>>6302756
>>6303581
>>6294103
>>6294056
>>6294043
People desperately just want to like Chrono Cross and claim to do so for hipster cred *coof*.

>>6294056
I remember buying chrono cross at the time because it got 10’s in practically every single gaming publication, and then going on gamefaqs and finding legions of people who thought the game sucked ass and was not deserving of its praise at all. I also only ever played it once, because I just didn’t care for it that much. Not nearly as comfy or fun as Chrono Trigger. The 40 characters didn’t bother me that much (I loved the suikoden series), but you have to admit most of the characters in CC suck ass. Too many ridicululous, jokey, and worthless party members.

>>6291549
It's got...interesting ideas.

>>6300343
This kind of take makes no sense to me. Basically you are saying “chrono cross is the best we could get because at least they didn’t do time travel again!” To which I say—so what? Alternate dimensions is a great way to develop the chronoverse but they executed it horribly.

>>6304439
People who post on gamefags are some of the most whiney hyperbolic people when it comes to video game opinions, that said ironically, the majority of reviews on gamefaqs for Chrono Cross are actually positive.
>Not nearly as comfy or fun as Chrono Trigger.
That's fine, but Chrono Cross is comfy as fuck, and I found it just as enjoyable.
>Too many ridicululous, jokey, and worthless party members.
This I agree with, yeah only a few of them are cool.

>>6302670
>can’t you see that the INDUSTRY values the opinions of people in the INDUSTRY
so fucking what, being a paid reviewer doesn’t provide any insight or make your opinion more valid

>>6304460
>so fucking what
So if the industry values the opinions of those professional reviewers above all-else, their 'insights and opinions' would, by definition, carry more worth. I've already already covered this in detail earlier in the thread.

>>6305719
You can talk to a coofer and get a cold in Earthbound.

>>6291560
>Better art/music.
Wrong as hell.
Toriyama >>>>>>>> literally who they got for Cross
Trigger's soundtrack >>>>>>>>> Cross' boring pretentious forgettable soundtrack.

>>6300328
It would have been just more Masato Kato/Cross trash. Who gives a shit?

>>6300343
>Cross is as good of a sequel
Nice joke.
Chrono Trigger = Akira Toriyama
Chrono Cross = Soulless Fanfiction-tier Knock-off that plays more like a poor version of Suikoden than Chrono Trigger

>Trust me, if you’d gotten what you wanted with a direct CT2, it would have just felt stale.
It would have been great. The Dream Team certainly had a lot of great ideas they thought of that they weren't able to use.
Suck my dick Crosscuck.

>>6305978


...You guys ARE aware this isn't real and was a proof of concept animation by a freelancer to promote their own skills, right?

>>6305979
Cross is better

>>6306049
Infected

>>6300343
>I mean, what would a “faithful” sequel to CT have been? “Uh, someone’s messing up the timeline... again!”

Chrono Trigger 2 takes place in 1005 AD. Time travel doesn't exist anymore; the gates have closed, and the Epoch self-destructed after it fulfilled its purpose. Crono and Marle got married and fucked off, they aren't main characters anymore. Ayla, Robo, and Frog have returned to their respective time periods, Magus is who-knows-where, and the main character is a 21 year old Lucca who has spent the past five years reflecting on the fact that a single royal family has ruled the world since 65,000,000 BC and that's kind of fucked up. Lucca gets woke, starts hopping freighters, starts an AG with a bunch of sympathetic queer-feminist-anarchist-occultist weirdos, and they fight to overthrow the Guardia royal family and abolish the prisons. It's an FPS with some heavy fantasy elements (think Heretic or Quake) and mission-based gameplay like Goldeneye.

>>6306049
I know, I posted as it a joke

>>6291645
">The more we grow up, the easier it becomes to take things at face value."

That is the complete opposite of what I personally think and also completely counter to what you´re going on to describe in that post.

>>6306093
This sounds like one of those ridiculous FF7 spin offs that have completely different gameplay, like the "Dirge of Cerberus" of Chrono Trigger

>>6306093
https://www.fanfiction.net/game/chrono-trigger

>>6306983
Yes, it would be ridiculous to make a follow-up to Chrono Trigger that wildly diverges from it's predecessor.