/vr/ - Retro Games

>Xenophobia
Does not exist.

Considering how much of a dead end 3dfx was at the time and that the technology used in the PowerVR chip was copied 12 years later for the future of nvidia hardware after they fudded it into oblivion, Sega 100% made the right choice fuck SGI and ex-SGI who haven't been relevant to anything since the early 90s for good reason.

>>6503919
>bad faith
3dfx niggers confirmed for 6th gen beggars

>>6503919
Sega of Japan were in the wrong for even thinking they deserved to design the next console after the clusterfuck that was the Saturn.

>>6503967
>1998
>3DFX dead end

>>6503967
Imagine being you and having your shitty opinions.

>>6504021
Yeah just look at how far they lasted into the next millennium

>>6504025
facts are not opinions faggot, 3dfx was the objectively inferior solution.

>>6504038
3DFX were objectively superior to PowerVR. Sega of Japan were retarded and ruined their chances at the console business by being stupid too many times.

>>6504003
Cry harder bitch.

>>6504038
You're a little faggy zoomer
clueless assclown
fucker

wasn't this move one of the reasons why EA refused to support the Dreamcast?

>>6504043
>3DFX were objectively superior to PowerVR
Objectively speaking, no. 3DFX had no future and The PowerVR architecture really was the most forward thinking at the time. You can tell by the irrational response you get from 3dFX fanboys still fighting 20 year old GPU wars despite their company being long dead. Oh but they did have one last release with the most infamous Nvidia release of all time.

What a legacy. 3DFX was a one-hit-wonder.

>>6504057
>The PowerVR architecture really was the most forward thinking at the time
[citation needed]

>>6504060
Ask Nvidia who made some of the most desperate fud at the time and ended up copying the key architectural element of it 10 years later, and still use to this day.

>>6504061
More unsubstantiated claims.

>>6504068
Don't put your ignorance on display anon, do your research.

>>6504073
>educate yourself shitlord
Thanks for conceding.

>>6504043
This basically. PowerVR was a dead end.

>>6504080
Not an argument, zoomer. Try again.

>>6504057
lol shithead

>>6504085
Telling someone else to find your evidence for you is also not an argument.

>>6504091
If you don't know what I'm referencing, it's your job to look it up. You are lacking key information for the discussion at hand, don't come unprepared. 3DFX died for a reason, Nvidia fought a basically irrelevant PowerVR as fiercely as they fought ATi because of how impressively efficient the technology was.

>>6504096
>If you don't know what I'm referencing, it's your job to look it up
It is your "job" to make an actual argument with evidence, not pull vague general statements directly from your ass

>>6504102
Like I said, if you don't know what I'm talking about, it's your job to look it up. You don't deserve to be spoonfed, 3dFX fanboy. Your technology died in the 90s and festered into the early 2000s. Couldn't even run Max Payne as well as PowerVR could at 4 times the price.

Pathetic.

>>6504112
Thanks for conceding.

>>6504113
Not an argument, present one at any time.

>>6504116
You first.

>>6504118
Try reading, if you're unsure of what is being talked about, look it up my little baby.

>>6504121
>educate yourself shitlord
Just admit you were wrong dude, you have no arguments to back up your claims.

>>6504124
I've got plenty, you need to make an argument first before I can retort it however. I've stated my position clearly, you're a dedicated fanboy cock sucker for a dead company however.

>>6504129
>I've got plenty
Where?

>>6504130
Just waiting for you to make a counter-argument. Here let me help you:
PowerVR couldn't run [BLANK] as well as Voodoo. [attachimage.jpg]

>>6504136
To make a counter-argument would require you to make an actual argument. As in something with evidence and not vague general statements.

>>6504138
Here, the vodoo5 PC had an AthlonXP in it, which is much faster than an Athlon 1000.

>>6504140
That's nice but that's after the Dreamcast was discontinued.

>>6504145
What do you think the Kyro 2 is? Should we focus on what the Dreamcast achieved while what 98's voodoo technology achieved? You're running out of steam after just one post, it's pretty pathetic 3dfx fanboy.

>>6504147
>What do you think the Kyro 2 is?
Not retro.

>>6504149
Thank you for conceding.

>>6504159
Cute. I'm not really understanding what your example was supposed to prove though.

>>6504160
>I'm not really understanding
I know.

>>6504162
Another zinger from the worlds only PowerVR fanboy. Or maybe just a Segautist defending every last dumb decision they made.

>>6504164
Safe to say PowerVR was one of the smartest decisions they made with the Dreamcast if not even a $500 voodoo GPU could keep up with its $100 PC equivalent. SC and Shenmue could never run on a Voodoo.

>>6504165
Ahhh, just another braindead Sega fanboy I see. Always the most fanatical.
>not even a $500 voodoo GPU could keep up with its $100 PC equivalent
Proofs? And keep it retro this time.

>>6504167
>Ahhh, just another braindead Sega fanboy I see. Always the most fanatical.
Huh? Is this some sort of insecurity you have? My ESL friend, you need to calm down. 3dFX died for a reason, they sucked.
>Proofs?
voodoo5 5500 vs kyro II powerVR.

>>6504171
>voodoo5 5500 vs kyro II powerVR.
Not retro. You sure you aren't the ESL here? Seems you can't read.

>>6504172
>Not retro
What's your point? I reject your false premise. PowerVR remained relevant long after 1998. 1999 basically killed the Voodoo series. If Sega wanted a console with any actual staying power, they had to pick PowerVR. They didn't want a turd they would need to replace in a year.

>>6504175
>What's your point?
That in 1998 3DFX was undeniably the best choice when it came to 3D graphics in the consumer market. Sega of Japan were retarded for going with PowerVR instead.
>If Sega wanted a console with any actual staying power
We're talking about the Dreamcast.

>>6504182
>in 1998 3DFX was undeniably the best choice when it came to 3D graphics in the consumer market
Unfortunately this is a lie, 16-bit color for any real performance was out of the question, Sega didn't need an N64-2, they needed the Dreamcast, so PowerVR became the real choice. A hardware platform which capped at 30fps in quake 2, a 1997 game, had no future in a console meant to go into the next millennium. 3dfx fanboys are so delusional and pathetic.
>We're talking about the Dreamcast.
Yes, a console relevant until 2001. 1998-2001, not 1998-1999.

>>6504190
>A hardware platform which capped at 30fps in quake 2, a 1997 game, had no future in a console meant to go into the next millennium
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCuLEmEGI7g
>640x480 aliased to hell image
>impossible on Voodoo.jpg
lmao. Console fanboys are something else man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLBgaLOi7N4

>>6504096
What youtuber lied to you?

>>6504197
Wow that's uh...hideous. Looking really 90s there, not like a console for the next millennium. Voodoo really was DOA for Dreamcast. Oh wait, it couldn't run DOA too.

I'll never understand 3dfx fanboys. Thankfully they're going extinct.

>>6504206
https://youtu.be/3rTeUTV-xD0?t=355
So this is the power... of PowerVR.
https://youtu.be/TWaNXIqYqIE?t=710
Meanwhile on a budget Voodoo card.

>>6504190
>>6504206
BAAAAAAWWW
pleb

>>6504213
>it's all clunky first person shitters from the 90s
yikes, here we are with far more impressive games. Poor voodoo. Are 3dFX fans really THIS pathetic?

>>6504225
What kind of mental illness do I need to have to think this screenshot looks better than any of the examples I posted?

>>6504227
Well first you need to realize that levels that are made of solid flat blocks belong on the playstation and N64, and realistic environments that represent the next generation, on the dreamcast. Once you realize that, the voodoo becomes obsolete.

That is how you become normal and get rid of your mental illness called fanboyism.

>>6504236
Does Jet Set Radio really not render at 640x480?

>>6504240
It does

>>6504243
It does render at 512x384 or it does render at 640x480?

>>6504245
640x480

https://youtu.be/Xvximt2Xx1s?t=208
PowerVR... so named for its power.

>>6504276
Wow, this game can't even run on a voodoo2. No wonder Sega didn't choose 3DFX.

>>6504284
It runs a lot better than that on a Voodoo 2. Especially in SLI.

>>6504291
Love it when you talk outta your ass.

>>6504295
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxP8QqHacX4
Voodoo 3 is all I could find, I could record some Voodoo 2 SLI footage in a little bit if you want.

>>6504047
Design more consoles faggot

>>6504305
>Voodoo 3 is all I could find
A 1999 video card. Maybe if Sega had a fucking time machine you drooling retard.
>SLI
Imagine needing two memefx cards to compete with one powerVR chip.

>>6504314
One Voodoo 2 will do in terms of out preforming the Dreamcast version.

>>6504318
Sure, run a test in 640x480 32-bit color mode, I'll wait.

>>6504323
Voodoo 2 doesn't support 32-bit color mode.

>>6504327
Oh, so it's not even viable for a next millennium platform. Sega really made the right choice disregarding that dead end piece of shit and ignoring the dying company it's from.

>>6504332
What it lacks in color depth it makes up for in performance. You won't see it hitting single digit FPS in Solider of Fortune.

>>6504338
>What it lacks in color depth
Sorry, they wanted to make a next gen console, not an n64-2. No wonder 3DFX is so fucking dead.

>>6504343
14 FPS in Half Life doesn't seem very next gen to me. No wonder people ditched the DC in favor of the PS2.

>>6504348
14fps for a port they didn't optimize? That's pretty amazing. Dreamcast really is powerful. Now imagine if they were stuck with voodoo...god, no HD models on that thing please. Everything would be pukey green too.

>>6504352
How bout this, name one game Dreamcast runs better than a Voodoo 2 PC.

>>6504361
sonic adventure 2, try it out on a voodoo 2 PC.

>>6504364
Jesus, I'd rather play a good game instead.

>>6504367
yeah like half-AHAHHAHAHAHA and soldier of ffHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
Sorry, what good games were you going to say?

>>6504373
In comparison to Sonic Adventure 2? Daikatana.

>>6504378
All these first person shooters, I may need to call your school. You sound like you've got a lot of pent up anger. I think this would be different if Sega could have kept 3DFX alive for you, but they wanted a good console not a dead end.

>>6504381
Sega couldn't even save themselves.

>>6504384
Irrelevant, but whatever helps you cope.

>>6504387
Irony considering this is coming from the usual Segautist giga coper.

>>6504390
Let the tears out, it'll be OK. Sega still makes games 3DFX well...just don't shoot up your school son.

>>6504393
>Sega still makes games
Funniest post I've read on this board in ages.

>>6504396
Thanks, I'm here to bring smiles, not misery. I leave that to the PC gamers with their anger-school-shooter games.

>>6504398
Don't think I forgot about the Solider of Fortune footage. It ended up looking a bit... dirty. I may of messed up some settings but the game itself looks great in VGA and runs impressively well at 1024x768 on a Voodoo 2 SLI setup.

>>6504468
Wow, imagine if the dreamcast got a good port of this...not very impressive looking school shooter simulator.

>>6504484
The game is really impressive for 2000, especially the gore effects. Lots of graphical options too. Here is how it runs on a single Voodoo 2 at 640x480. Still head and shoulders above Dreamcast.

>>6504502
Looks worse than soul calibur from 1999.

>>6504516
Well my footage doesn't exactly do its image quality justice, only its performance. In person it definitely looks better than Soul Calibur. SC is a good looking game but there isn't much to it. It's just two character models on a flat stage.

>>6504530
>In person it definitely looks better than Soul Calibur
No, it really doesn't. I know you've never played Soul Calibur but it's objectively better looking than that dark, ugly mess.

>>6504546
>I know you've never played Soul Calibur
Yeah such an obscure game, I've obviously never heard of it.

>>6504564
Dark, gritty, facegun, low poly...yep it's a 90s PC game.

>>6503928
Yes it does, it means fear of the foreign. You should read a book every now and then.

>>6504583
>Dark and gritty as negatives
Not enough bing bing wahoo huh?

>>6504590
this the doom 3 announcement bethesda was teasing a few days ago?

>>6504593
It's a much more impressive game than two character models fighting on a flat surface with a JPEG behind them.

>>6504598
Nice shadows, detailed models. You can actually see too. Yeah I'm thinking this BTFOs that school shooter game.

>>6504468
>>6504502
>>6504564
>>6504590
embarrassing

>>6504605
The models better be higher polycount, they're basically the only things being rendered. The shadows aren't any more impressive than SoF though, a game with a lot more going on at any given time. Lets check out the shadows in the Dreamcast port- oh wait they cut them entirely, something the PC version won't even let you do in the in game graphics options.

>>6504593
kek

>>6504584
No one has fear of foreigners. Trump is married to a foreigner. Building a wall to secure our borders is not Xenophobia. People can still enter this country with a VISA and they can become a legal citizen if they apply for it.

>>6504584
>read a book
Written by who? A crazy Leftist college professor? Their books are just propaganda used to brainwashed, manipulate and indoctrinate the youth.

>>6504003
You mean virtuaboy.

>>6504794
>No one has fear of foreigners.
You have no way of assessing that. Many people are afraid of foreigners, especially in places at war or that have been occupied.
>Trump is married to a foreigner
I don't think he married Putin yet, maybe when he flees for Russia he'll finally be free to do it.

>>6504828
No, by Webster's, probably. The system failed you, son. You didn't need to end up like this.

>>6504530
Uhhhh it looks better in person! Take 3dfxs necrotic dick out of your ass. Sega was the king of fucking up consoles but they occasionally made a prescient decision, and going with powerVR was one of them. No matter how much you wish, 3dfx is never coming back, your dad is never coming home and your moms new “friend” is going to continue to come over every weekend. Sorry widdle buddy, life’s tough.

>>6504928
Sega fanboys sure do get emotional when presented with negative facts about their dead company.

>>6504931
I don’t give a fuck about Sega, they were never all that good. Sega CD sucked, 32X sucked, Saturn sucked, nomad sucked, VMUs were retarded, I could go on. Regardless, the 3dfx dick rider is a retard.

>>6504932
>Regardless, the 3dfx dick rider is a retard
I think you mean "objectively correct".

>>6504934
>retard lacks reading comprehension in addition to critical thinking skills
Shocking.

>>6504937
Can you explain why it was a good idea to go with a graphics chip that runs every game worse than a 3DFX chip? Without resorting to emotional outbursts please.

>>6504940
Read the thread, it’s been thoroughly explained. Or hand your phone to an adult and have them read it to you, since it’s apparently giving you trouble.

>>6504943
>powerVR is better because uhhhh, it was ahead of its time dude and uhhh like it was good bro, just ignore it running everything worse than 3DFX, Sega can do no wrong
That's the "argument" put forward ITT for PowerVR.

>>6504946
Show me one post that implies Sega is infallible, retard. And you conveniently leave out the posts pointing out the 3dfx lines lack of support for 32 bit color. I’m getting the impression that you don’t even understand what that means or what a hindrance it would have been for a console meant to sell for 5-6 years. Sega didn’t know the Dreamcast would die so young, so they built a system with the most forward thinking architecture that was affordable at the time of design. 3dfx was peddling a dead end and that’s why they no longer exist. Sorry that upsets you so much for whatever reason.

>>6504959
>muh 32-bit color
Minor concession in exchange for much better performance and higher resolutions.

too bad late dreamcast games didn't look much better than early ones.

>>6504889
>Brings up Putin for no reason other than to make a really shitty joke
Rent free

>>6504963
Yeah wow, all this bland, drab shit in high resolution at 30 FPS. Not everyone only plays games that are comprised solely of minor variations of brown. The Dreamcast was meant to have mass appeal, and that means having a broad color palette. I guess if you just played quake 2 in your moms basement it’s hard to understand.

>>6504889
>I don't think he married Putin yet, maybe when he flees for Russia he'll finally be free to do it.
Go back to resetera.

>>6504976
>gets triggered when President Dumbfuck’s honor is impugned
Back to r_thedonald, pole smoker.

>>6504978
>only 30FPS
Not with good 3D acceleration, maybe PowerVR shit though haha. Then again you'd be lucky if HL reached 30FPS on Dreamcast, should've gone with 3DFX end of story.

>>6504991
Have you ever played a game that wasn’t a drab first person shooter? And leaning on a poorly optimized port is pretty weak. Again, Sega was trying to sell to a mass market, not gun obsessed little spazzes.

I'm surprises of how many prototypes and current systems they had that they didn't went with both.

>>6504983
I don't care about Drumpf anymore.
It's just pathetic that the first thing your penis-obsessed mind goes to is Putin when foreigners and him are mentioned.

>>6504121
>>6504112
>>6504073
Holy shit, you aren't even wrong, but this is some pathetic argumentation.
https://www.realworldtech.com/tile-based-rasterization-nvidia-gpus/
Was it so hard to link an article or at least elaborate on the specifics? Nah, that would potentially be a challenge to your preconceived notion.
Even then, what does this endeavour prove? NVIDIA also adopted 3dfx technologies, for better or worse, and even this doesn't necessarily say much about the state of hardware in 1998.

>>6505000
What does Sega (pbuh) trying to sell to the mass market have to do with them betting on the wrong horse?

>>6505014

>>6504991
>>6505034
I think the point he is making is that Soldier of Fortune is cherrypicking and ignoring objective reality.
You can make both qualitative and quantitative cases for the Dreamcast over a Voodoo 2.
>Not with good acceleration
And Voodoo 2 barely qualified. Computers were usually heavily bottlenecked by GPU communication overhead and other CPU tasks. Dreamcast's power admittedly doesn't lie in scalar CPU tasks.

>>6505045
It would be cherrypicking if it was the exception and not the rule, however Dreamcast running games worse than a Voodoo 2 PC is the rule.

>>6505060
On a 1998 CPU half the speed of this?

>>6504976
>Brings up Putin for no reason
Just like you brought up your daddy for no reason? They're intrinsically related. Maybe stop thinking with your manboobs and start using your head, you fat hypocrite.

>>6504980
Go back to the_donald, you fucking election parasite.

>>6504794
>The president has a wife from a different country and doesn't have a draconian immigration policy, thus he or anyone else for that matter are not xenophobic
That's a sorry excuse for a dodge.

>>6505069
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eRPKscuNsQ
Yes.

>>6505087
Not that much worse than a 1998 rig.
And the point made earlier stands. Both of these games are PC-centric in nature. The Dreamcast has a few tricks up its sleeve that can reduce the strain put on the system significantly, such as FPU vectorization, hardware polygon sorting, and swift bus lanes. Sloppy ports aren't going to make good use of these, but dedicated Dreamcast games are.

>>6504946
>bro these bad ports and unoptimized western trash prove me right, never mind that far better games than anything the voodoo 2 could run came out on it
3dfx fans are pathetic

>>6505103
>>6505123
Maybe the ports would've been better if the hardware was better. If literally every port is a "bad port" doesn't that tell you something about the hardware itself?

>>6505126
tells me western devs are incompetent if other devs are putting out 60fps games that look a generation ahead lmao

>>6505129
That didn't happen in reality.

>>6505134
It demonstrably did.

>>6505135
>he says with no evidence
Ebin.

>>6505138
re-read the thread 64autist

>>6505140
Soul Calibur again? A fighting game with exactly two characters and nothing else?

>>6505145
re-read the thread 64autist

>>6505146
Nothing else ITT you've posted runs at 60FPS.

>>6505126
>If literally every port is a "bad port"
Not necessarily, but there aren't even that many games on the Dreamcast to begin with.
These are just the few I know, exactly because they are regarded as high-end PC games.
Still, do you honestly think that a Voodoo 2 wouldn't struggle with something like Shenmue or Dead or Alive 2?
I can already tell you that they wouldn't run well by virtue of their polygon counts alone.

>>6504584
4chan and people who say nigger in every sentence say it doesn't exist, plus it's a word used against Trump and I need to defend my god-emperor topkek based at all times. Why yes I did come here after 2016 how can you tell.

>>6505150
>Still, do you honestly think that a Voodoo 2 wouldn't struggle with something like Shenmue or Dead or Alive 2?
I see no reason why it would. Seeing how the Voodoo 2 out preforms every Dreamcast port and every PC game running on the same PowerVR chip that the Dreamcast uses.

What retro video games console do you recommend for someone who hates Chris chan and wants to avoid everything that is Sega and Nintendo

>>6505174
tg16, sega saturn

>>6505179
I specifically asked for nothing from Sega

And why would the TurboGrafx-16 be the retro console I'm looking for?

>>6505193
sega saturn is explicitly not sega as you know it, and tg16 because it's NEC, not Nintendo or Sega.

>>6505195
Thanks a lot

I am looking for Consoles that Chris Chan did not play at all.

that's why I need to avoid everything Sega and Nintendo at all costs

>>6505201
Don't worry, Chris Chan only ever played the sega genesis, super nintendo, n64, game boy/color, gamecube, ps3, wii.

>>6505170
How naïve.

>>6505174
Why are you letting a retarded tranny determine the retro games you’ll allow yourself to play? Chris breathes air and walks on two legs, are you going to avoid those as well? You’re literally a Chris tier turbo autist.

>>6505205
God, the vooodoo series of GPUs is such an embarrassing piece of shit.

>>6505205
More cards released in the 2000s. Why can't you people ever stick to 1998 when the Dreamcast was released?

>>6505212
might surprise you but the voodoo5 5500 is stronger than the voodoo 2. Architecturally basically the same shit.

>>6505204
thanks for the list of consoles that chris has played and that I should avoid like the fucking coronavirus

>>6505217
Yeah, don't forget he's mostly a Nintendo fan.

>>6505214
>Architecturally basically the same shit
Completely wrong but regardless the image is comparing 32-bit performance, something the Voodoo 2 can't do anyway. How about a retro comparison?

>>6505212
>Why can't you people ever stick to 1998 when the Dreamcast was released?
Because that would be even more embarrassing for 3dfx. I am being generous here.

>>6505223
You really have a stick up your ass about Dreamcast being weaker than hardware significantly more expensive than it. Just let it go man.

>>6505220
>32-bit performance, something the Voodoo 2 can't do anyway
>16-bit trash
lmao what is this the early 90s? Get that SGI shit outta here. No wonder Sega dropped them like the hot sack of shit they were. Red flags everywhere. BEGGING to be let on to the dreamcast project.

>>6505225
You'd think its the early 90s with the level of performance the Dreamcast gets in many titles. Maybe they should've gone with the fastest graphics on the market, too late now though.

>>6505174
Unironically the HEXbox amd HEXbox 360. Not retro, because the question is not retro.
>>6505204
I was gonna mention SNES because I never actually seen him mention it. The main Nintendo thing he did is Pokemon and Animal Crossing, but he's always a Sega boy in my mind.

>>6505218
thanks for the extra information

And please, do you recommend any other Retro console?

remember nothing from sega or Nintendo

>>6505227
>but he's always a Sega boy in my mind.
I think this is a misconception. He's mostly into the pokemon side of Sonichu.

>>6505230
Colecovision and vectrex

>>6505230
Play on retro PCs, Chris has never mentioned playing PC games in his life.

>>6505234
Unfortunately retro PC gaming means you have to deal with something far worse: 3dfx fanboys.

>>6505231
Thanks for all

>>6505224
>Dreamcast being weaker
>Stick up your ass
How's that 16 BPP working out?

>>6505227
Reasons why Xbox is my ideal video game Console?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF9K_GcgMo0[Open]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ3UgdjRLSc

>>6505235
Fortunately there's only one of those. And that's me.
>>6505238
Objectively speaking, Dreamcast is clearly weaker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbvU7HxnVNw
>>6505240
OG Xbox is a fucking great console.

>>6505240
Because it's American and you sound fat and stupid like one

>>6504043
Sega of Japan was stupid for not being in more direct control of Sega of America.

>>6505249
They shouldn't have given them so much free reign with production, SoA made a ton of BAD games.

>>6505242
Lol.

>>6505249
Lets not pretend Sega of Japan were smart, remember they were against Sega's aggressive anti Nintendo advertising in North America and they designed the Saturn.

>>6505253
But if you get another voodoo 2 it runs at 21 FPS!

Thoughts on tile-based rendering?

>>6505265
Might be solely responsible for Nvidia having such a massive lead over AMD to the point they can dedicate R&D to feasible real time raytracing at 1080p60. That and probably why they jumped back so hard as AMD unveiled GCN which was a proper generational leap over the refined terascale architecture.

>>6505249
Sega of Japan did a lot of stupid shit that hurt their image as well, but them not working together is really what doomed both of them

>>6505253
That's the lowest end Pentium III available, basically identical to the highest end Pentium II. That's a clear CPU bottleneck and not any of those cards fault. Voodoo 3 could reach 60FPS in UT99 with something like a Pentium III 800MHz.

>>6505274
>Identical to the highest end Pentium 2
>The best CPU available in 1998 when the Dreamcast was out
Really makes you think.

>>6505269
Is it even useful today? I thought the idea was to defer the texturing until after the polygons had been sorted and drawn.
Well, that's basically what we do now with shaders, isn't it?

>>6505289
god yes, it's insanely efficient while still being performant.

>>6505279
How did they do that other benchmark? Here is the intro running on a Pentium II 450MHz with Voodoo 2 SLI in 1024x768, followed by a single Voodoo 2 running at 800x600 and a single Voodoo 2 again running at 640x480. As you can see it's pretty clearly a CPU bottleneck but it runs the game better than that other benchmark would lead you to believe.

>>6504171
>3dFX died for a reason
it was absorbed by nvidia and I don't think it was because they were shit exactly

>>6505354
They mostly just wanted to capitalize on some of their patents and tech, turns out most of it was worthless shit and ended up making Nvidias WORST generation of graphics of all time lmao what a joke 3dfx was.

>>6505361
>makes the best GPUs of the 90s
>curses Nvidia in the early 2000s
They seem based.

>>6505345
The article says it's running UTbench.dem
Not sure what that is, but I assume it involves a lot of bots.

>>6505380
3dfx sealed their own fate. They simply couldn't compete.

>>6505440
They basically became a joke company at that point.

>>6504889
Again false. I already explained how there's no such thing as Xenophobia. Your TDS is showing by the way.

>>6504926
False. Webster's dictionary hasn't been legitimate ever since they added "they/them" as a gender pronoun, retard.

>>6505428
That was pretty action packed, but somehow I still got better performance at 1024x768 on my SLI setup.
>>6505440
By 2000 they were done yeah but they definitely owned the 90s. A lot like Sega really.

>>6505083
People who are "Xenophobic" don't marry foreigners, dumbass.

>>6505465
>Person has a wife from a Western country, thus they can't be xenophobic

>>6505465
They do marry Asian women though

I’m the guy who normally posts interesting technical facts about PowerVR2 on /vr/ but holy shit, there is so much technical misinfo on both sides in this thread that I lack the motivation to correct it.

>>6505623
Please do. I love console hardware facts.

>>6505625
Well I’ll give one, it’s a zinger both ways so it should do for now.

Almost all Dreamcast games draw out a 15-bit color framebuffer. The console uses a different dithering algorithm to 3dfx in this circumstance, and I prefer the PowerVR2 approach

Both PowerVR2 and all of the Voodoo cards have an internal pixel pipeline at 24-bit color depth and 8-bit alpha, irrespective of what is actually drawn out to the framebuffer. In that sense, both chips are color-wise fairly similar, at least in the way that Dreamcast games were practically used.

However, the earlier Voodoo cards (up to 3) can only output a maximum of 5-bit alpha to memory, while the Dreamcast always does destination alpha internally to cache at 8-bit precision. This means that alpha blending is higher quality with PowerVR2. Interestingly, the Voodoo destination alpha weakness is shared with GameCube’s chip Flipper, which can only output 6-bit alpha to memory, losing 2-bits of precision at that stage.

>>6505638
Interesting note on the alpha.
Does the Voodoo even have an alpha channel destination? I'm under the impression that it only exists in 32-bit framebuffers, so I assume you're talking about intermediate values acquired from textures and vertices.

>>6505563
>>6505601
Nope. That only reinforces the fact that Xenophobia doesn't exist. It's like calling a man who dates a transwoman "transphobic", just because he disagrees with the idea of Gender Identity or disagree with the idea that women can have "penises".

>>6505678
If his wife were from a non-Christian, non-Western, non-white family, you may have had a point, but even then, you can like people from a certain culture and still be xenophobic.
And that is just one person. Even if Trump isn't xenophobic, saying it doesn't exist is fucking retarded.

>>6503919
The 3dfx chips of the time were inferior to what PowerVR had.

https://vintage3d.org/pcx2.php

>>6505678
Not really. 4chan is full of self proclaimed racists who would boink a third world prostitute. I don't know how you can't wrap your mind around it(I can actually, you don't want to). Wait til you hear about the slave owners that raped their own slaves despite still being racist.

>>6505723
The absolute state.

>>6505663
>Does the Voodoo even have an alpha channel destination? I'm under the impression that it only exists in 32-bit framebuffers
Voodoo supports auxiliary buffers. That’s where the destination alpha would go.

If I had to make a general comment comparing PowerVR2 to Voodoo 3, it’s that the PowerVR2 is better all round but not in every situation. Voodoo 3 is way faster at trilinear filtering, which is why so many Dreamcast games have visible mip lines. PowerVR2 is bottlenecked by triangle setup, while the Voodoo 3 scales better with higher T&L.

Of course on a console which is inevitable limited by memory bandwidth and T&L performance (with no upgrade possible) the PowerVR2 is a better choice overall. Voodoo 3 suits a PC with a powerful CPU to back it up.

>>6505723
Great, a 3D decelerator & debeautifier

Sega was always so terrible with 3D going back to SVP. While virtua racing on the genesis was stupidly expensive the SFX chip was designed by some 18 year old kid paid in hentai. In retrospect Sega going 3dfx would've been a huge success.

>>6506243
The SVP was a lot more powerful than the SuperFX though. Also Sega didn’t make the SVP. It’s a rebranded Samsung DSP with pinouts suitable for Sega’s console.

>>6505240
I miss when close up fish eye lens shots were absolutely fucking everywhere.

>>6503919
>The case was settled out of court
So it was Sega.
They hurt themselves in the end, as NEC could not deliver the chips in time, which greatly hurt the Dreamcast.

And seeing how stuff like HL runs on a Dreamcast vs a 3dfx Banshee, they missed out even if NEC could supply them properly.

>>6506243
PFFFFFFFFFFFFFF AAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA OH NO NO NO NO NO

you shithead

>>6506243
>be SEGA
>team up with CG experts and engineers of General Electric Aerospace & Lockheed Martin to create the most potent arcade boards throughout the 90s, continue that tradition well into the 00s
ld;dr kids know dick

>>6506243
>be SEGA
>team up with CG experts and engineers of General Electric Aerospace & Lockheed Martin to create the most potent arcade boards throughout the 90s, continue that tradition well into the 00s
tl;dr kids know dick

>>6505460
>no no words don't have meaning because muh narrative, I already said!
You got skullfucked pretty hard, boy.

>>6506243
Off-the-shelf DSP with custom microcode / pin out that still somehow manages to squash the Super FX in terms of performance.

>>6505702
False. Saying Xenophobia exist is retarded.

>>6505726
Racism and Xenophobia are not the same thing. Racism exist, Xenophobia does not. It's clear to me there are a couple of dumbass 4channers who've been brainwashed by Leftists and their insane ideology.

>>6506568
False. You're the one who is too stupid and easily brainwashed by the Leftist media. I'd say you're the one who got skullfucked.

>>6504794
>Mentions trump
>Spews out nonsensical idiotic contrarian-to-fact sentences to get replies

>>6506876
t.Triggered idiotic Social Justice Incel

the absolute state of /vr/

Fuck this thread. Mods close please.

>>6506337
HL is an unreleased game with no optimization

>>6505747
That's the older chip, the newer ones do sport bilinear filtering

>>6506156
Voodoo3 only came in 1999. If anything the dreamcast would have had a Voodoo2

>>6507293
Had the PowerVR2 been only released for PC, it would likely have been a 1999 release too (not to mention the PC equivalent Neon250, did actually get released in 1999).

Partnering with a console tends to get hardware released a little earlier. Like how the Xbox 360's GPU had prototype ATi unified shader hardware well ATi released a modified version of that hardware for PC.

>>6507306
*well before

>>6506337
>3dfx Banshee
That too came out later than the dreamcast
>>6507306
The PowerVR PC card equivalent to the dreamcast only came out in 1999 and had worse specs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerVR#Series2_(NEC)

>>6507306
But thanks to muh 3dfx autist we now know that they didn't have anything ready at the time.

>>6505174
I recommend you fuck off and die little fucker baby bitch.

>>6507318
PowerVR2 wasn't really ready for release in 1998. It's quite obvious that the yields were way too low for anything other than a paper launch. Makes sense considering how ambitious they were with the amounts of embedded cache.

>The PowerVR PC card equivalent to the dreamcast only came out in 1999 and had worse specs.
Yes, some of the core had to be chopped out to fit the 2D VGA and PC interface parts. Though in some situations the higher clockspeed would have made up for it.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerVR#Series2_(NEC)
Ah, funny to see how Sega Retro has now unfiltered Wikipedia with their completely wrong 3200 MTexel/s spec based on a complete misunderstanding of how TBDR hardware works.

>>6507327
>But thanks to muh 3dfx autist we now know that they didn't have anything ready at the time.
The thing is that it wasn't even that hard to go from Banshee to Voodoo 3. I mean the Voodoo 3 is literally an overclocked Banshee with both TMUs enabled and a few minor tweaks.

>>6507365
*infiltrated

fuck it happen again

Speaking of 3dfx, does anyone have the schematics for the voodoo1 reference cards? Mine is missing an smd cap

>>6504057
>You can tell by the irrational response you get from 3dFX fanboys still fighting 20 year old GPU wars despite their company being long dead
So 3dfxfags are basically the GPU/computer equivalent of WCW/PRIDE defenders (like Wolfcuck)?

>>6506861
>leftist media invented the word "xenophobia"
>It doesn't exist becuz muh daddy drumpy something something
Fucked right in the skull.

>>6505070
Total rageout. 4 more years.

>>6507657
>Unable to debunk the fact Xenophobia doesn't exist.
>Continues with sounding like crybaby beta-male Social Justice Incel.
Jeez, no wonder you guys don't get laid or get real women to date you. So much stupidity and crying is enough to turn off any woman.

>>6504794
any excuse to bring american politics into the conversation
many such cases
sad.

>>6504021
when the deal fell through in 1997, 3dfx had only two cards out, the voodoo, and the rush (a lower performing voodoo), they probably thought 3dfx wouldn't be able to handle the potential volume of a major console

>>6504082
>PowerVR was a dead end.
they still make PowerVR cores to this day, while 3dfx died 18 years ago

>>6504140
this was several years after the dreamcast, not relevant

>>6504396
stop. responding.

>>6505205
>32bit
we get it, they suck at 32bit colour
16bit was not that bad

>>6508082
Just goes to show how superior the technology used in the dreamcast was. Voodoo was dead before the dreamcast was.

>>6508230
>Just goes to show how superior the technology used in the dreamcast was
No it's actually completely irrelevant information.

>>6508240
>No it's actually completely irrelevant information.
Wrong, it's absolutely pertinent. Voodied. Sega smelled it coming, Voodoo was the wrong choice.

>>6508289
This is the GPU Sega opted to put in the Dreamcast. There's a good reason they stopped their console business.

>>6508293
Yes, 10 years of bad marketing decisions and infighting will cause anyone to duck out of business. The GPU didn't have anything to do with it, architecturally the dreamcast was superb. It almost wasn't, they almost went with a voodeadend.

>>6508296
The GPU choice was part of a larger problem, just bad decision making. That obviously isn't the sole reason for them dropping out the console market.

>>6508302
The GPU wasn't a problem in the slightest, in fact it was one of the most forward thinking elements of the console. Sega definitely knew how to do 3D, with more experience than either of the competition in the field they picked the best GPU for the job. No wonder PowerVR GPUs are still a thing, solid foundational technology and a well run company. Unlike 3DFX who put out one good product, then stagnated, then died.

>>6508309
>Sega definitely knew how to do 3D
Is this a joke?
>put out one good product, then stagnated, then died
Sounds like Sega.

>>6508313
>Is this a joke?
No, that's 3DFX.
>Sounds like Sega.
Nope, still 3DFX.

>>6508314
Is there anything more pathetic than blindly hating a long dead company because your own personal favorite long dead company rejected their business deal 20+ years ago? That is some true autism at work.

>>6508317
Is there anything more pathetic than blindly hating a thriving, successful company because your own personal favorite long dead company got rejected in their business deal 20+ years ago? That is some true autism at work.

>>6508319
I'm not blindly hating any successful thriving companies though.

>>6508326
Neither am I, I'm laughing at a dead one, 3DFX.

>>6508313
>Is this a joke?
not him, but ... no
they'd been doing 3D for quite some time by that point

>>6508330
Yes, you would need to be one of the blindest fanboys imaginable to think Sega hadn't been pioneering and exploring 3D graphics and 3D game play for a very, very long time.

>>6508329
Which as we've already established is pathetic.
>>6508330
Only in arcades, where Sega was generally at their best.

>>6508337
>Which as we've already established is pathetic.
On the contrary, laughing at failures is great. That's why I'm laughing at you too.

>>6506481
>>6506662
Yeah and none of the SVP games look any better than Star Fox. SFX was built internally and for cheap. SVP like their arcade boards, like the 32x and the Saturn were overdesigned and dumb. Even their arcade boards present-day suck ass.

>>6508339
>laughing at failures is great
Sega's hardware after the Genesis must be riot for you.

>>6508347
I can learn to appreciate them for where they succeeded, 3DFX though...just failure after failure. SGI's alumni really were dead ends. That's why you're so funny.

>>6508354
>I can learn to appreciate them for where they succeeded
What a sad cope.

>>6508359
I wonder what this says about 3DFX who were desperate for their partnership.

>>6508364
It says Sega were consistently bad at making hardware decisions.

>>6508369
No, only bad hardware decisions sink platforms and the dreamcast was extremely soundly designed. Almost wasn't, 3DFX sneaking their way in would have blown the whole thing. Would have been an n64-2.

>>6508375
>only bad hardware decisions sink platforms
>the dreamcast was extremely soundly designed
Evidently not.

>>6508379
Where's the evidence it was a poorly designed console? Its issues weren't related to hardware - it was all administrative which is as far removed as you can get from hardware issues.

>>6508381
>Where's the evidence it was a poorly designed console?
The fact it was a flop. You just said "only bad hardware decisions sink platforms" and the Dreamcast sunk pretty hard.

>>6508387
Dreamcast wasn't a flop, it had its run and was on track to do very well but Sega ran out of money because of 10 years of bad decisions. How young are you that you don't know this? Are you some PC poser praising dead graphics companies to seem hard core?

It's pretty pathetic anon.

>>6508389
>Dreamcast wasn't a flop, it had its run and was on track to do very well but Sega ran out of money because of 10 years of bad decisions
That's a justification, the fact of the matter is it was a flop. The circumstances of it being a flop is irrelevant.

>>6508395
>The circumstances of it being a flop is irrelevant.
I thought it was because they didn't partner with failing graphics company 3DFX? You're being very inconsistent here, sounds like you didn't think it through very well. Some sort of new-age on-the-fly cope.

>>6508397
>I thought it was because they didn't partner with failing graphics company 3DFX?
I never said that, I said it would have been a better decision to side with the best 3D accelerator creators at the time instead of PowerVR. It was you who said that only bad hardware decisions cause a console to flop, so clearly you agree with me. Only I realize that realistically nothing was going to save the Dreamcast after the back to back flops from Sega in the mid 90s.

>>6504598
>>6504613
>two character models fighting on a flat surface with a JPEG behind them.
>The models better be higher polycount, they're basically the only things being rendered.

This is the Dreamcast not the Saturn. A lot of the background elements are being rendered as well which you can see when you look at the wireframes in an emulator.

The game is averaging around 25k polygons per frame at 60fps which comes out to about 1.5 Million Polygons Per Second.

>>6508401
>side with the best 3D accelerator creators
They did. 3DFX was ripe with red flags and was likely leveraging their flawed glide technology. You've been spending two days getting BTFO, up for a third?
>>6508404
looks like you are.

>>6508416
>They did.
Nope.

>>6508416
>looks like you are.
I'm not the guy you've been arguing with. I just started looking through this thread and saw people saying Soul Calibur only rendered the character models which isn't the case. So I figured I'd post some evidence to the contrary.

>>6508425
I know, I wasn't replying to you, just pointing to you.

>>6508417
PC really was a generation behind.

>>6508432
>PC really was a generation behind.
There was nothing like this on consoles in 98, there really wasn't in 1999 or 2000 either.

>>6508435
>on consoles in 98
Meh, Dreamcast looked better. Gonna be straight with you kid, Unreal literally never looked good. Tech was neat but the game was ugly as fuck.

>>6508432
>PC really was a generation behind.
Now i wouldn't go that far. A high end PC of the era would beat the Dreamcast simply because it could have significantly more RAM and a beefier CPU. But that would be significantly more costly than a Dreamcast.

I think Sega did make the right call to go with the PowerVR instead of 3dfx's GPU. From what I remember 3dfx's GPUs were really designed around working with more memory and beefier CPUs, which wasn't going to really work well in a Console. Plus the writing was already starting to show on the wall for 3dfx at that point.

>>6508436
>Meh, Dreamcast looked better
No Dreamcast game ever looked as good as Unreal.

>>6508450
lol you can count the polygons on one hand in this screenshot. Nice jpeg for the background too. Soooo advanced.

Are you deliberately trying to make PC games and PC gamers look bad?

>>6507293
Well then the development of the dreamcast and voodoo 3 would've overlapped. The chip inside would be between the 2 and 3, probably closer to 3.

>>6508454
You gonna post a more impressive game for Dreamcast?

>>6508450
I'm glad that the DX10 renderer makes Unreal engine skies look right. They're ugly when using the old render pipeline on a modern GPU.

>>6508459
Meh, it's already been done. Gotta love this n64-tier geometry. If this is what 3DFX was touting, no wonder Sega went with PowerVR.

>>6508460
That's actually captured on a Voodoo 2 SLI, updates after 1.0 make the skybox uglier unfortunately. Still looks nice though. You need the update for multitexturing.
>>6508463
>still not posting anything better
Coward.

>>6508468
>>still not posting anything better
hold on I think I have some PS1 screenshots that will blow your mind.

>>6508470
I doubt it.

>>6508468
Yeah, the actual capture is just making me appreciate that it can look anywhere approaching that on a modern machine. It's cool that unmodified Unreal 1 games work at all under modern operating systems and APIs, but that one determined autist's renderer and tweaks are fucking magic. Sure as shit easier than tracking down high performance but also period accurate equipment for a build that can take most advantage of it without modification.

this is the most autistic thread i've seen in ages. great job guys

>>6508490
You're welcome.

>>6508454
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqdeyseQAP4

>>6508468
Do Dreamcast Unreal Tournament and Quake 3 Arena not count?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOinFh2NWMY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PEJKL-5GBU

Sonic Adventure 2?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqYfRVgAipk

Phantasy Star Online?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1EUl9TCZpI

Shenmue 2?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49hANIKDOI4

Test Drive LeMans?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpUdPzuF9Ko

Also if you're going to bring up Voodoo 2 SLI set ups, can we bring up Naomi 2 then?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyZOTOaRGYw

>>6508051
OP brought up Xenophobia.

>>6508523
>Do Dreamcast Unreal Tournament and Quake 3 Arena not count?
Considering they're just uglier, worse running versions of PC games no they don't count. Why would they?
>Sonic Adventure 2
Not a very good looking game, tons of pop in and JPEG trees.
>Phantasy Star Online
Low res textures, low poly models with really basic level geometry.
>Shenmue 2
Aliased to absolute fuck. Flat lighting in outdoor areas with some really low res textures.
>Test Drive LeMans
Same thing, aliased as hell with flat lighting and low res textures.

>>6508552
but nobody brought up american xenophobia or trump
what the fuck does trump have to do with something that happened in 1997?

>>6508567
Trump was alive in 1997 so more relevant than you, who weren't

>>6508563
>Considering they're just uglier, worse running versions of PC games no they don't count. Why would they?
They look about the same as the PC version running on midrange hardware for the time. So I'd say they count. Unless you actually think a 3dfx based Sega console would have the same memory and CPU power as a high-end PC of the time. If so then you're being quite delusional.
>Not a very good looking game, tons of pop in and JPEG trees.
It's running at 60fps with better textures and more polygons than the Unreal shots you posted.
>Low res textures, low poly models with really basic level geometry.
No worse than the Unreal shots you posted, plus on Dreamcast it has some nice colored lighting effects going on. The character models are probably on par if not a little better than Unreal.
>Aliased to absolute fuck. Flat lighting in outdoor areas with some really low res textures.
Still looks better than the Unreal Shots you posted polygon and texture wise.
>Same thing, aliased as hell with flat lighting and low res textures
Again, it still looks better than the Unreal shots you posted.
>Ignores Naomi 2 example
So is it fair to bring it up then if you're going to bring up SLI Voodoo 2 set ups?

>>6508610
>So is it fair to bring it up then if you're going to bring up SLI Voodoo 2 set ups?
No, SLI was possible in 1998. Naomi 2 is hardware from 2000.
>Still looks better than the Unreal Shots you posted polygon and texture wise.
No it doesn't. Why do you do this to yourself man?

>>6508626
>Naomi 2 is hardware from 2000.
All it is a Naomi/Dreamcast with 2x the PowerVR chips and more memory. I think it's fair to bring up if you're going to bring up SLI Voodoo 2 set ups since it's a similar principle. The hardware was all there in 1998, Sega just didn't see a need for putting 2 of those chips in there until later.
>No it doesn't. Why do you do this to yourself man?
The Geometry is definitely more complex. Sure textures might be lower, but that's more of an issue with VRAM not the PowerVR chipset. As for lighting, we have plenty of examples of Dreamcast games with lighting on par with that unreal shot including Dreamcast Unreal Tournament.

The issues you're bringing up here have nothing to do with the PowerVR chipset and are more related to the bottlenecks of the CPU and Memory. Which those issues would still be there on a 3dfx based Dreamcast. It's just then you'd have a CPU and Memory starved 3dfx chipset that probably wouldn't fair as well as the PowerVR in that same scenario. Sega wasn't going to put a Pentium 2 with 128MB of RAM and 12MB of VRAM in the Dreamcast in 1998. You were going to have 16MB of RAM and 8MB of VRAM at best with a 200MHz SH-4. See how well your Voodoo 2 fairs in that kind of set up.

>>6508672
>The Geometry is definitely more complex.
It clearly isn't.
>we have plenty of examples of Dreamcast games with lighting on par with that unreal shot including Dreamcast Unreal Tournament
Nothing on Dreamcast is close to this.
>See how well your Voodoo 2 fairs in that kind of set up.
A 200MHz Pentium Pro with a Voodoo 2 runs Quake 3 at the same speeds as the Dreamcast.

>>6508710
>It clearly isn't.
Yes it really is. There's a lot more polygons being rendered as you walk around the city than in what you've posted from unreal tournament you deluded fanboy.

Show me Unreal doing Character models on par with this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzo0dtk1JEc

>Nothing on Dreamcast is close to this.
That's just colored dynamic lighting. Quake 3, Unreal Tournament, Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, PSO, MDK2, etc. all do effects like that.
>A 200MHz Pentium Pro with a Voodoo 2 runs Quake 3 at the same speeds as the Dreamcast.
With how much Memory? How fast is the system bus? How much bandwidth does it have? Does the Pentium Pro have additional features that can give a game like Quake III a performance boost that the SH-4 lacks? The only evidence I can find of this all have the CPU overclocked beyond 200MHz. And it's still not showing any evidence that it's better than the Dreamcast version using the PowerVR chipset. Again, these issues you're bringing up aren't GPU related, they're CPU and Memory related. You're comparing performance of a Voodoo 2 in a system with far more memory and CPU power than what a 3dfx based Dreamcast would realistically have.

>>6508745
>There's a lot more polygons being rendered as you walk around the city than in what you've posted from unreal tournament you deluded fanboy.
I've been posting shots from Unreal, not UT. And even if there are a few more polygons it still looks worse thanks to the constant shimmering and flat lighting.
>Quake 3, Unreal Tournament, Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, PSO, MDK2, etc. all do effects like that.
Those aren't even close to this.

>>6508772
Doom 3 is not retro.

>>6509295
false
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUVXAl0dgYY

>>6509379
By this logic Halo is retro, also that looks worse than dreamcast

>>6509380
>By this logic Halo is retro
yes, i've posted videos of people running halo on a geforce 256 (1999)
it should be retro based on /vr/'s rule of hardware made in 1999 or earlier
also not the same person or claiming it looks better than dreamcast, just refusing the statement that doom 3 isn't retro

You are like old angry men yelling at each other, eventually getting a stroke and forgetting what the topic was.

>>6509380
>>6509386
as a side note about comparing it to the dreamcast, it's a little unfair
in that video is looks pretty bad, but that's mostly down to;
a. textures being made smaller than intended
b. the game having a lighting engine that is intended for gpus with programmable shaders, which is disabled for used on the voodoo 2's, resulting in no lighting at all

>>6509386
>doom 3 isn't retro
That's correct, it's really not.

>>6509394
well then i guess Dancing Stage Fusion, a psx game released in 2004 also isn't retro

>>6509409
It is, now cope

>>6509410
well what's the difference? is it because doom 3 wasn't intended for pre-2000 hardware? that doesn't seem to be against the rules, it only cares that the "platform" is 1999 or earlier, which in the case of computers, would fairly mean that no component is newer than 1999

>>6509423
PC trannies really are this desperate

>>6509424
i don't even care to talk about doom3, i just don't like when people make arbitrary exceptions to the rules because they feel a game is just too modern for their liking

>>6509427
Exactly why Doom 3 doesn't belong retard

>>6509429
well then talk to someone about changing the rules to exclude it

>>6509430
don't need to, already is

>>6509431
how so?

>>6509436
read the rules

>>6509439
who gets to write the rules?

>>6509439
i did, it says that computer games for platforms 1999 or older only
doom 3 is a computer game which can run on a 1999 platform
the only leg you have is that doom 3 was not intended for 1999 hardware, but the rules do not state that the software need be intended for 1999 hardware, it just says quote "games on platforms launched in 1999 or earlier."

>>6509446
>platforms
So as long as you're wearing your moms old heels you can shitpost whatever you want?

>>6508567
All anon said was that "Xenophobia doesn't exist", which was his reply to OP >>>>>> >>6503928 and then it got political... >>>>>> >>6504584 which led to Trump being brought up because he's married to a foreigner... >>>>>>>> >>6504794

All because anon said Xenophobia doesn't exist and he was trying to point out an example of why Xenophobia doesn't exist.

>>6508450
Unreal Tournament runs on Dreamcast.

itt: zoomers
PCs got ridiculous upgrades between 1996 and 2000, there's no point comparing the two. Most PCs didn't have any 3D acceleration until people upgraded to AGP in '99 (97 if they were very rich). 3DFX was the high end gamer shit until the Geforce was released.

>3dfx autists eternally btfo

all those unreal screenshots look like blurry ass and voodoo is garbage.

>>6509441
>who gets to write the rules?
Not you.

>>6509929
Yes, but the question was "who gets to write the rules?", not "who doesn't get to write the rules?", you see

>>6509916
contrarian homo prince

>>6503967
>Considering how much of a dead end 3dfx was at the time
At the time of Blackbelt's development (1997), 3dfx wasn't a dead end. Their Voodoo cards offered better 3D performance than any of their competitors while offering support for many OpenGL games via MiniGL and being the only cards to support the popular Glide API. The only arguable major issue of the OG Voodoo at the time was its inability to accelerate 2D graphics: a non-factor for many gaming PCs, most which already shipped with 2D cards.

What killed off 3dfx was it's decision to start making and selling the cards themselves (cutting off revenue's gained from selling Voodoo chips to third-party manufacturers), bad priorities (pulling resources away from the seemingly promising Rampage project in favor of the Voodoo3), and being behind the times in terms of supporting features and APIs. Many of these issues didn't become major until 1998 and 1999.

https://youtu.be/DYNsuHnnk1A

>>6504213
DC Half-Life was held back by various other factors, not the GPU.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7dxTmI1SyI&t=1212s
PowerVR beats the Voodoo in both framerate and resolution, and this is a chipset weaker than the one that was included in the DC.

>>6504054
No, EA refused to support Sega consoles after Bernie Stolar killed the Saturn in 1997.

>>6505257
Sega of America wanted the Saturn to have a 68000 CPU like the dead on arrival Atari Jaguar. They didn't know jack shit about console design, all they knew was advertising. Can you imagine an Atari Jaguar running Panzer Dragoon Zwei or Burning Rangers? What a fucking joke.

And furthermore, the Saturn had 1200+ games in Japan. It was a great design, advanced for its time with a dual core architecture and a VDP capable of rendering infinite planes. The reason it didn't have that many games in America is because Bernie Stolar killed the system in 1997 and Sega of Japan were foolish enough to trust Sega of America to make the next Sonic game for the console, which they failed at so miserably that the Saturn never got a 3D Sonic platformer at all.

The Saturn was a beast in Japan, outselling the PlayStation from launch in 1994 until Final Fantasy VII came out in 1997. Its failure in America is on SOA, not SOJ. If SOA didn't fuck it up so bad, the Saturn would have kept up with the PlayStation and N64 in the west and would have had Shenmue and Sonic Adventure as Saturn games, not to mention other popular western franchises like Vigilante 8, WWF/WCW, etc.

>>6511621
> It was a great design
not really
>advanced for its time with a dual core architecture
not really, the term you're looking for is dual chip

>>6511621
>Sega of America wanted the Saturn to have a 68000 CPU like the dead on arrival Atari Jaguar
And the Genesis, Neo Geo and thousands of arcade games. It would have allowed for backwards compatibility with the Genesis and better arcade ports.
>The reason it didn't have that many games in America is because Bernie Stolar killed the system in 1997
The Saturn was dead by 1996 in western countries.

>>6508450
That piece of shit needs SLI to look like a PS1 game? That's terrible.

>>6511625
>>>6511621 (You)
>>Sega of America wanted the Saturn to have a 68000 CPU like the dead on arrival Atari Jaguar
>And the Genesis, Neo Geo and thousands of arcade games. It would have allowed for backwards compatibility with the Genesis and better arcade ports.
Literally outdated, last gen garbage that couldn't into 3D. The 68000 was dead, that's why Motorola abandoned it for the PowerPC. Sega of America just wanted another Genesis with more colors. Sega of Japan were thinking ahead.

>>6511623
>>>6511621 (You)
>> It was a great design
>not really
It was if you're not a retard.

>>advanced for its time with a dual core architecture
>not really, the term you're looking for is dual chip
Not really, it had two CPU cores. Nobody says "dual chip" because it doesn't matter if they're on separate chips. The "quad core" PowerPC Macs were on separate chips as well.

>>6511642
technically illiterate saturn fan becames agitated for no reason again, this just keeps happening

>>6504140
Not comparable because FSAA is turned on.

>>6511642
How could somebody be so retarded?
>Macs
Ah. Thanks for clearing that up.

>>6511621
>68000 CPU like the dead on arrival Atari Jaguar
Which one though? A 68060 could BTFO both PS1 and N64

>>6505074
An election redditourist projecting. Like clockwork.

>>6512024
>pick a number between 0 and 0
>60

>>6511638
>The 68000 was dead, that's why Motorola abandoned it for the PowerPC
The real reason Apple abandoned Motorola was because Motorola only allowed their chips to be manufactured by themselves. PowerPC was more widely licensed.

>Sega of America just wanted another Genesis with more colors. Sega of Japan were thinking ahead.
SoA wanted an N64 with a CD drive. They were literally after the SGI chipset. It was SoJ who wanted to go with an turbocharged 2D sprite distorting machine.

>>6511642
>Nobody says "dual chip" because it doesn't matter if they're on separate chips. The "quad core" PowerPC Macs were on separate chips as well.
It does in this case. Unlike the PowerPC Macs, Saturn CPUs did not have proper SMP support so they were entirely unaware of each other's existence. That drastically cut down their ability to cooperate with each other, even with a good programmer.

>>6512024
>A 68060 could BTFO both PS1 and N64
The 68060 would have been a great choice for the Saturn. Realistically though, it would have been around 50 MHz which wouldn't be any faster than the N64's (non-superscalar) R4300i at 94 MHz. If Sega wiggled enough around with VDP1 and VDP2, then Mega Drive backwards compatibility would certainly have been possible, also with the Yamaha audio chip providing some FM support.

But the T&L performance would have been good, certainly much better *practically* than the twin SH-2s.

Sega should have also dumped the SCU DSP and just put a hardware triangle setup unit in its place.

>>6514115
and by triangle setup obviously I mean quad setup

>>6514115
>i have a PHD in bullshit
>Piled Higher and Deeper

lol this shitty dick waving contest is still going

>>6512679
>There is only a single generation and model of Motorola 68K

>>6514453
>The superscalar M68060 represents a new line of Motorola microprocessor products. The first generation of theM68060 product line consists of the MC68060, MC68LC060, and MC68EC060.
Zoom: not even once

>>6514681
It's part of the 68K line, zoomie.

Considering I have an opl PS2, GCN, cfw Wii, cfw OG Xbox, and cfw PS3;
is there any reason for me to get a dreamcast?
It's the only 6th gen console that I never owned or even knew anybody that owned it.
A lot of the library is arcade ports that I can just play on MAME, and most of the notable games like SA and JSR have been ported to a console I own.
Any thoughts?

>>6509931
Who gets to write the rules is not you. Who doesn’t get to write the rules is you.

>>6515807
Dreamcast is the Sega console with the least stuff I want to play. The Sonic Adventure games and Resident Evil ports are okay, but I don't really care for most of its library.

>>6506853
>No argument
>Xenophobia capitalized
>Plural form of exist when not appropriate

>>6506337
>And seeing how stuff like HL runs on a Dreamcast vs a 3dfx Banshee
With a 200 MHz CPU, both are piles of shit.

>>6507365
What the fuck is wrong with that place? They really are desperate to shit all over even on the Geforce.
If you're actually feeding the chip something that effectively gets anywhere close to 3200 MPixel/s, you have a shitty engine with really terrible culling.

>>6516287
>With a 200 MHz CPU, both are piles of shit.
To be fair though, and I think some people in this thread have suggested the opposite (?), the Hitachi SH-4 is *much* better for gaming than a Pentium 2. I mean, the Hitachi SH-4 has a 128-bit vector unit installed as a co-processor. What does the Pentium 2 have? MMX is a joke. SSE isn’t there yet.

It’s hard to think why HL runs so poorly on Dreamcast, I think it must be botched porting.

>>6516287
>If you're actually feeding the chip something that effectively gets anywhere close to 3200 MPixel/s
Yes, that’s true to an extent, but one of the advantages is that you can make an engine with sloppy overdraw culling to save on CPU and it will still work fine on PowerVR2.

The real issue with those shitters is the claim that the PowerVR2 can do 3200 MTexel/s. That’s absolutely false. The chip only has one TMU running at 100 MHz. The whole point of TBDR is “eliminate overdraw, texture once”, so it makes no sense for such a chip to have texturing as fast as raw tile pixel fill.

>>6516313
>It’s hard to think why HL runs so poorly on Dreamcast, I think it must be botched porting.
That, but also because SIMD requires intervention on anything but the smartest compilers. I mean, I just experimented with SSE autovectorization in Visual Studio, and it threw errors at me at every point until I completely butchered the code.
>MMX is a joke
Half-Life actually made use of that, so it's not hard to imagine that the Dreamcast suffered even more here.

>>6514720
Nice cope. It goes will with the projecting. Now copepost and project some more. The power of autism compels you.

Is there a single downside to tile-based rendering? It seems too good to be true on paper.

>>6516754
>Is there a single downside to tile-based rendering?
There are a few.
1) Has much steeper triangle setup requirements than immediate mode rendering

2) Doesn't like too many triangles which are too big that they fall outside of the tile size.

3) Because their texture units are designed for "texture once" (and cause there aren't many transistors left after the tile engine / cache), they usually don't have great performance with texturing effects that require more than one pass (like trilinear filtering).

4) Ditto for polygons that *have* to overdraw, like transparent polygons cause the chips are designed for "no overdraw".

5) More difficult to manufacture than other GPUs due to having a lot of internal cache.

6) More difficult to engineer to work properly with extra graphical features because of tile-based rendering's complexity. This wasn't a problem with PowerVR2 which was fully up to date with features and maybe even had more features than the competition (certainly more than Voodoo), but they fell behind with PowerVR3 (Kyro) which had a smaller feature-set than its competitors. I vaguely recall Tim Sweeney I think once saying that tile based renderers would never work properly with pixel shaders. He was proven wrong but it was once a serious problem going forward for the tech.

>>6516395
Dude it's just a dead console hardware discussion. Calm down.

>>6516393
Shit games run shit on dc easy as that

>>6516393
Half-Life just needs a really beefy FPU for its skeletal models, MMX isnt really needed.

>>6516754
It's kind of like S3TC or as it became DXTC. Just a really good way of doing things that to the point that there really isn't a more optimal path. Once you start building around it, it just makes infinitely more sense to use it. Mind you it took time for hardware to be built around it, like >>6516786 pointed out with the polygon density. In practice the restrictions didn't matter much at that point because the hardware was able to keep up and surpass the requirements.

Obviously they matter even less today where 3 million polygons/second are like a joke.

>>6517491
S3TC is nice, but it's awful for certain applications. Shaders can improve it profoundly with luma-chroma compression, but it would be neat if it were integrated natively.

>>6517527
Yeah, S3TC has been improved substantially over time, it's part of the DirectX spec now. Every D3D game has used it since DX7 I think.

>>6517532
Interesting, for OpenGL didn't get it until 2000 on D3D7 hardware.
Maybe NVIDIA was hesitant due to improper support for 4-bit compression. Everything had to be upped to 8-bit, or it would look terrible.

>>6517547
>different resolution
>different bitdepth
>different AA settings
>different game graphics preset
were they trying to make it as incomparable as possible?
also
>22 bit colour

>>6505014
This thread is a mess. I don't understand why anyone would be so fervently dedicated to a a graphics company. It just seems completely asinine, and yet here we are.

>>6517454
>Dude, the power of autism compelled me
pottery

>>6518345
>22 bit colour
Dither filtering son. Even the N64 does it.

reported and saged and looks like jan is up heck u jan >:(

>>6503919

3Dfx GPUs didn't have Order Independent Transparency, the PVR2 GPU in the Dreamcast did.

This wouldn't be a feature for PC graphics APIs until Direct3D 11 BTW, just to signal how far ahead of its time they were.

>>6520224
The Nintendo DS supports Order Independent Transparency too. It uses a scanline renderer which is conceptually similar to tile rendering.

>>6518345
Yes. Pure cope from a then dying company.

>>6518743
Actually achieving true 22-bit color with dithering requires a low-pass filter, so you effectively take a further hit in resolution.
>>6518374
It's interesting how certain people cling on to things and ideas that are largely abandoned and dismissed or seen as such.
Flat Earth? Not even medieval people believed that, but the notion that they did is alone to have people doubt the common consensus.
Same with hardware. With 3dfx and Sega hardware dead, people go through the most insane mental gymnastics.

>>6520224
I think the Geforce 3 technically did, but it required intervention and wasn't very efficient.

http://developer.download.nvidia.com/assets/gamedev/docs/GF3ArchitectureOverview.pdf

>>6503919
>Xenophobia
Looks like someone took the blue pill and got brainwashed, HARD!

>>6520423
Upvoted, my friend!

reported and saged 3

reported and saged let me delete my comment >>6519279

1

>>6522203
Seek help, schizo.

Hi, stalker!

>>6523290
>stalker
>>>/v/

>>6505269
huh? tile-based rendering isn't common knowledge by now?