/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8105736
ps2 is the best ps1
it also plays ps2 games

>>8105736
>Who the fuck is even buying these
I have one loaded with roms its decent aside from the no analog support

>>8105765
>no analog support
Wasn’t Ape Escape one of the games that it launched with?

I do agree with OP, though. PS1 games are the best and they can be played in virtually every modern gaming environment. It’s a divine console meant to be experienced by all.

>>8105764
Ps2 isn't the same as a real ps1. It's not emulation but it's a blurry line

>>8105764
Ps2 is way way more expensive than a ps1 right now. And more of a pain in the ass to mod

>>8105781
I highly doubt it shipped with ape escape the controllers it comes with have no analogs and even when modded to use any controller the analog sticks dont work. You might be able to work around that by using retroarch isntead of the software it ships with but at that point you might aswell just use anything else kek

>>8105782
elaborate

>>8105794
mcboot and tonyhax both require nothing to pirate

>>8105765
I could've swore there was analog support - I was using a janky switch usb controller with yoshi on it

>>8105856
You can with retroarch but not in the standard emulator

>>8105861
ok im not losing it then
im very sleep deprived on graveyard shift


make sure to run the mods for it
theres a new bleemsync (i forget the name) but its a killer fork of retroarch


i use it to hold the complete library for neogeo, pokemon mini handheld, + my favorite ps1 and gameboy/color games

>>8105736
I dont buy any of these minis because I have a rasberry pi

Is psx emulation any 'better' on a psp because the cpus are so similar?

>>8106018
yep, no need to change discs, screen aspect settings, disc speed options. that's how I play PS1 games on a PSP-3000 with TV-OUT cable

>>8106024
Nice that's the exact set up I was considering

>>8105782
If i remember correctly the PS2 emulates the PS1's GPU, which is why some games won't run on it. It does have the PS1's CPU and sound processor though (at least the fat models do).

if PS1 isn't your desert island game library you just have no sense, SNES is the only thing that remotely rivals it

>>8105736
>Can we all agree the Sony Playstation is the best console?
How? The Playstation had no real Sprite capabilities. And not enough memory for 2D games. And even the 3D games looked like dog shit. No Z-Buffer. Muddy textures. Polygon wobbling. Bad 3D model joints. After all those years you dumb fucks still buy into the make believe marketing.

>>8106134
>The Playstation had no real Sprite capabilities
This is either not true or misleading, depending on what your definition of a sprite is.

>>8106136
My point is, the "2D" games on the Playstation are being realized via 3D engines. Thats one thing. Another thing is there were no cutting edge 2D games on the Playstation. The hardware couldn't even do CPS1 ports justice. That the Playstation excels at, and is a capable 2D machine is just made up bullshit. So you could argue, but but but no one liked 2D by the mid nineties anymore. Well guess what the Playstation was shit at 3D too. And Model 1,2 and 3 run circles around it. But but but... those were so expensive. Doesn't fucking matter because in the medium of video games everything competes with everything. And Virtua Fighter 3 made Tekken 3 look like dog shit. Playstation was mediocre 3D hardware that sold at a low price point to the casual masses.

>>8106162
>My point is, the "2D" games on the Playstation are being realized via 3D engines. Thats one thing.
They're not. The GPU fully supports 2D primitives (that is screen-oriented rectangles). It could draw them twice as fast as it could draw textured polygons so it was no slouch.

The reason 2D PS1 games weren't as good was that it didn't have enough RAM. That means you have to cut animation frames or add extra loading screens. But that's true for any game, and not a 2D-specific weakness. In games where the limiting factor is rate of drawing sprites rather than number of unique sprites like Dodonpachi, the Playstation outperforms competitors like the Saturn.

>>8106073
No, this makes no sense at all. The PS2 can play 99.5% of PSX games as well as having its own library.

>>8106192
None of the Capcom 2D ports use raster sprites. All the characters are slapped onto flat shaded polygons. And it gives the games a different dynamic. The hardware is capable of rendering 8 x 8 and 16 x 16 tiles for the backgrounds. For large foreground objects you have to resort to polygons. Present evidence anon, or go home.

>>8106246
The hardware is capable of rendering arbitrarily sized rectangle primitives. It's pointless pessimization to use polygons for that.

>>8106225
you're the retard that makes every conversation like this a fucking drag because you don't understand the spirit of the question. just pick one library, don't bring fucking backwards compatibility into the equation, it's a debate about the games that were made for that console. you're who they're making fun in the fire episode of the office where they're doing desert island books and dwight says "I WOULDNT BRING BOOKS, I WOULD BRING AN AXE TO CHOP FIREWOOD"

>>8105781
You are putting more thought into this than the people that made it.

>>8106251
So when t says "polygon = 1", does that mean your primitive is a 3D object? And lets say for a moment the hardware could draw 512 x 1024 2D prims, why the hell is almost every game using polygons for sprites?

And even if they did use 2D prims, thats not traditional raster sprites. And most of the 2D games feel odd as hell on the hardware.

>>8106283
>So when t says "polygon = 1", does that mean your primitive is a 3D object?
It says that the primitives supported by the GPU are polygons, lines and rectangles. You provide that number as part of a GPU command to say which you are drawing.
> And lets say for a moment the hardware could draw 512 x 1024 2D prims, why the hell is almost every game using polygons for sprites?
They aren't. The only reason you would want to is to do rotation/scaling. There's just no advantage otherwise.

Just to inb4: showing a wireframe capture from an emulator doesn't demonstrate anything. Emulators commonly render using triangle primitives primitives regardless of whether the hardware did. OpenGL even internally may render flat quads with 2 tris.

>>8106296
I'm not a coder. But what really caught my eye here is "cheats being used". That's where stuff gets interesting and creative. I don't like the hardware any better to be honest, but thanks for the info. Genuinely appreciated, anon.

>>8106324
Cheats in this context means the hardware is taking shortcuts to make it faster. If the GPU knows it doesn't have to do all the work it would for a textured polygon, it doesn't have to.
Crash Bandicoot and FF7 are good examples of stylistic use of untextured polygons for speed.
The GPU supports commands for quadrilateral polygons. Internally it decomposes these to triangles. If you want to rotate or scale a sprite, you have to rely on this mode.
In theory they might have been able to add a mode just for sprites, without using polygons. But it's unlikely it would have been any faster, so there wouldn't be a good reason reason to have that redundancy. The Saturn does have a mode specifically for scaled sprites, though.

>>8106383
that is, add a mode just for rotated/scaled sprites

>>8106383
So you ever created a demo on the hardware or something?

>>8106395
Nothing playable or especially impressive but I did mess around a bit. Playstation has plenty of docs you can reference though.

If I want to get into Playstation shit should I get an XStation? PSIO? MODE?

>>8105736
it doesn't have mario or donkey knog 0/10

>>8105736
What does it have that compares to DKC or SMB/W

>>8106430
>>8106664
Adventures of Lil' Ralph shit on any game in the Super Mario or Donkey Kong franchise.

>>8105736
>Also is there any chance these dumb classics can be made useful for some kind of purpose

I keep hoping that the Duckstation author will port his emulator to it, then it would be very neat to use.

>>8105736
yeah its da fucking best

>>8105736
Saturn is better.

>>8106830
looks empty and boring

>>8106830
You know it's good because nobody gives a shit about it
Playstation is for movie games, tekken, and jrpg

>>8105736
Me that for 20 bucks has got a couple of PSX USB controllers with a hackable USB system as a bonus

>>8107285
I got mine for around $40 and love it after installing autobleem. I finished SotN finally and would like to start Parasite Eve, but I don't know how it would work for multi disc games.

>>8107076
It's anything but boring. Ralph-kun's minecart section brought me much suffering, quite possibly the hardest minecart autoscroller in videogaming.

>>8107614
So it's just a minekart game? Boring

>>8105736
>Can we all agree
No. Not everyone has to think alike, hiveminder.

>>8107618
No, it's an arcade-y action platformer inspired by the likes of Wonder Boy and Rastan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io9pntL1nL8

>>8107051
Yup.

>>8107635
So this is what you bing bing wahoo people like huh?.I bet you like celeste

>>8106162
>>8106134
>It's not REAL 2D
Literally does not matter in practice how the results are achieved. You're still seeing 2D sprites.
A car is still a car, be it running on fossil fuels or electric power.
Stupid fucking no true scotsman bullshit.

I had a hand-me-down PSOne as a kid but don't have nostalgia for it. I never had a memory card, and the only game I owned was Crash 3 since my father thought the motorcycle looked cool.

If we're not counting PS2/PS3 then PS1 really is the best console ever made. I've been playing a lot of pic-related for the first time and most (not all) still hold up. There's also so much shovelware but the variety completely outweighs it that there's probably SOMETHING for everyone.

Been playing Parasite Eve for the first time and holy shit it's like a 10/10 so far. I heard the sequel had a mixed opinion but I'll probably play it right after.

>>8108182
Reality check, 2D games on the playstation were shit. And thats not just in the small ram. They all feel like the hardware is operating on its very limits, with no headroom left. It was budget hardware for easy to impress brainlets.

>>8108760
nah they're a lot of fun give them a try some time, little ralph is memed hard because it's a good game

>>8105736
Quick question for anyone that has experience here
I have a PAL playstation and if I put an ODE in it, will it play NTSC games at 60hz?

>>8108760
That's a very vague decription. What makes them """""feel""""" like that? How does it """""feel""""" any different?

>>8108763
Dude. I had several playstations. And literally thousands of games. Because i imported those and resold them. And even these days i am playing harmful park and a elemental gearbolt. Because no ports on other hardware. I know my shitty hype platform from day 1.

>>8108792
Ever played Street Fighter alpha 2 on an original playstation? No? You should. The port crawls at certain points. Which might be fillrate issues. I find it amusing how anons pretend like non of this is real.

>>8106830
This game looks awesome

>>8106830
looks cool but your "nintendo killer" mindset turned me off it

>>8108823
Fill is rarely if ever a problem for Playstation - it has plenty of it, especially compared to something like the Saturn. I doubt that's the problem.

>>8108823
Everyone wants to pretend that the PlayStation was perfect or something. It really was not meant for 2d. The only console that could do 2d was saturn but look how that turned out. And the PlayStation ended up getting a bunch of 2d stuff because the only other option was n64. All those 2d games would have been better off on saturn were it not for the totally anemic market share and the psx was so huge

>>8108848
I cant put my finger on it either. And even outside of the usual capcom disaster ports, 2D just doesnt feel right on the playstation. The thing that i still cant wrap my head around is how lame budget hardware like that completely rolled up the 90s market. My brain says, marketing, my hedgehog says fuck them faggots.

>>8108852
Every console from that generation could do 2D. What the hell are you talking about?

>>8108867
Not really
>Inb4 having 2d games means they can do 2d
That's not how that works
N64 was not meant for 2d and kind of bad at it. It's meant for flat polygonal stuff. Not only that but the size limit of cartridges means you can't don't have enough storage for frames in 2d animation which isn't an issue in the 3d games it had.
The psx is well known. Its 2d games are actually 3d.
3d isn't a direct upgrade from 2d. Just because you have the power to do 3d doesn't mean you also effortlessly get good 2d as a bonus. The architecture was focused on polygonal 3d models from the ground up

>>8108865
It is more likely that you're a diehard fanboy and you're reaching for a reason why the Playstation wasn't legitimate but can't find one that actually exists.

>>8108875
right in some ways, way off on others

>>8108875
>The psx is well known. Its 2d games are actually 3d.
This has been deboonked in this thread already.

>>8108879
Right in all ways. I was a journalist and talked to the engineers from all the companies

>>8108886
>Not only that but the size limit of cartridges means you can't don't have enough storage for frames in 2d animation
the size limit was for audio, if 2D animation was a big issue for storage size then previous consoles would've been stuffed

>>8108892
Storage size wasn't the only issue with audio, it was also the fact that had no dedicated audio processor. So it would have to take time either from the CPU or RCP (polygon T&L processor)

I remember Mischief Makers had good music. It was probably helpful that it was a 2D game leaving the RCP open for other uses. But the sample variety & quality was a little issue, which I guess could be a storage problem.

>>8108876
Ya. I m an evil sega fanboy. And i want you to burn all your sony crap. ur2smart4me :(

lmao he deleted his posts

>>8108902
I do think a sound processor would have alleviated the 64's CPU quite a bit, in saying that the 64 has quite good sound for not having a dedicated chip

>>8108929
>64 has no dedicated sound chip
What the duck
Honestly why did nintendo even bother with all this sgi shit if they were gonna gimp the console everywhere else.
Maybe thought it would be cool to just have a pure 3D GAME machine in am artistic minimalist way? Maybe they thought it was elegant
It's bizarre how gimped it was
Adding a cd drive to the thing would have improved quality of life so much. Making it easier for devs to work with... Encouraging indie devs, putting a dedicated sound chip in it for fucks skae. Increasing the ram so the games aren't already choking

>>8108875
>N64 was not meant for 2d and kind of bad at it. It's meant for flat polygonal stuff.
like, Nintendo discouraged 2D games on it, but it's not somehow suddenly incapable of it

>Not only that but the size limit of cartridges means you can't don't have enough storage for frames in 2d animation which isn't an issue in the 3d games it had.
N64 cartridges are big. 8 to 64MB.
You can fit the entire CPS2 version of Street Fighter Alpha 2 on an N64 cart.
People on /vr/ are absurdly bad at understanding the space limitations of cartridges vs CD (remember, all data on CD has to be loaded beforehand or streamed live, and on the PS1, you get 1MB of video RAM and 2MB of main memory; on a cartridge, you can generally stream data from any arbitrary point very quickly).

>The psx is well known. Its 2d games are actually 3d.
Wrong.
Seriously, the PS1 GPU has dedicated hardware paths and commands for drawing sprites that are different from the ones used to draw polygons. It doesn't just draw two triangles for sprites (the PS1 also supports drawing quad shaped polygons, but it DOES internally split those up into two triangles).
Hell, you can make a (somewhat dumb) argument that its 3D games are 2D, since its polygon drawing hardware has absolutely zero awareness of 3D space and does purely affine transforms on textures, you feed 3D data into the GTE and then send the 2D display coordinates you get back into the GPU.

>3d isn't a direct upgrade from 2d. Just because you have the power to do 3d doesn't mean you also
effortlessly get good 2d as a bonus.
Even if you only had polygon hardware, managing 2D on it is basically down to:
>how many textures can I fit into memory?
>what is my fillrate?
If your fillrate is high (so you can get a bunch of sprites on screen) and you can use a lot of different textures (animations, backgrounds, etc), you have a 3D system that can easily manage good 2D performance.

>>8108935
I mean they were doing those things, but a bit too late
doesn't matter though there is definitely some exceptional sounding games on there for not having a dedicated chip

>>8108942
I'm not sure I'd put mischief makers as one of them I always thought it sounded kind of 'washed out' audio wise. Kinda felt like SNES music that had low end and high end dialed back and midrange turned up.

>>8108946
it's not about clarity mate

>>8108950
I'm not critiquing clarity

>>8108951
fair enough, I think a lot of the RARE games had more quality audio by comparison

>>8108940
>Even if you only had polygon hardware, managing 2D on it is basically down to:
>>how many textures can I fit into memory?
>>what is my fillrate?
I wouldn't say it's that simple. A simple 2D rasterization pipeline like the Playstation has in its GPU can't replicate all the effects of a more complex one like the Saturn has in its VDP2. Alongside the RAM, that's the other major advantage the Saturn has over the Playstation.

But lets talk about the playstation-superiority complex marketing-strategy for a moment. You guys still remember when sony tried to convince people that the PS4 is superior to current gaming PCs? They have been laughed at. This resonates with OPs, "Can we all agree the Sony Playstation is the best console?". Trolling or actual stupidity?

>>8108967
Oh yeah? Then what do I do with my 32x tough guy? Why can't you port panzer dragoon or some 2d saturn game to it?

>>8108973
cause 32x doesn't have any 2d or 3d acceleration lmao

>>8108993
Bro then accelerate it

>>8108808
harmful park is insanely easy play tiny bullets or something

>>8105736
>Everything you want from the previous generation is here and better.

I don't know about that, at least not specifically to the PlayStation.

I think the N64 got a better spate of racing games (although the whole generation was a step up since this was the first generation where real 3D was used to design racing games in earnest).

>>8105736

PS One 3D graphics aged like ass

>>8109652
>he thinks its called the PS One

>>8109781
it's what mine says on it :)

>>8109812
That's like saying "PS3 Slim games have aged like shit!" it just makes you look retarded.

>>8109825
it's not really
Playstation, PS One, PS1, PS, PSX
it's all the same shit

>>8109834
PS One clearly refers to the slim version, dude pretty much said "slim version console" has terrible games.

>>8109845
does it being a revision somehow magically change how the games look?

>>8109863
Not for the slim, but sometimes.

>>8109889
Well that just looks like an error on colours that got fixed

>>8106409
I got an mm3 mod chip, seemed like a reasonable compromise between cost and capability, only like six solder points on the board, and the ps1 mono has big fat solder pads.

>>8105736
Can these be easily modded so that I can play Japanese games with translation patches and shit like the Front Mission games?

On another note, I just want something that can play both PS1 and Saturn games someday. Is there anything beyond the Polymega?

>>8109909
It's the depth of the shading that got upgraded.

>>8106830
>Adventures of Lil' Ralph shit on any game in the Super Mario or Donkey Kong franchise.
Thanks for the recommendation of this obscure japanese-only title. But I'd only try it because it was made in japan. Your comment makes you sound like a eurotard hyping some Speccyjank.

>>8106134
> no real Sprite capabilities
The ps1 is perfectly capable of drawing sprites (polygons and sprites are the same thing). What it lacks is background layers.
> 3D games looked like dog shit
Compared to what? Also I disagree, whilst many ps1 games looked bad, that system could produce some absolutely stunning graphics. Crash bandicoot 3 still holds up today, and even looks better than many modern games.

>>8110646
>(polygons and sprites are the same thing)
That's not necessarily true. A sprite generally is aligned to the screen while a polygon can be at any angle and indeed have arbitrary vertex positions. Also in the Playstation's case it can only draw quadrilateral polygons by decomposing them to two triangles, which might not seem important, but it can result in quantization errors.
>What it lacks is background layers.
In some circumstances this is an advantage. Take a game like SotN which achieves a very high level of parallax in its "backgrounds". It can do that because there's no hardware limit on the number of backgrounds, they're just sprites stacked on top of each other. Saturn has to do it with sprites too, but since fillrate is lower, it doesn't perform as well. SotN Saturn is held back in other ways too, bad programming among them, but this was always a difficult port due to Playstation-specific optimisations.

Why are retro rpgs always expensive? I know retro games are at bullshit prices right now, but the rpgs seem to be the only games (besides low print runs or strictly collector stuff like Stadium Events) that sell for twice as much as the damn console.

>>8111142
Because they are highly coveted works of mentally stimulating art

>>8111142
Earthbound is an awesome experience
You could also emulate / flashcard it

I got a PS1 for 25 dollars today. I probably can't throw an XStation on it since it's a 7501 model, but I otherwise am loving it, it's chipped and everything.

How do I play burned games in my playstation
Is it easier to pirate for than playstation 2

>>8106134
U mad

>>8111916
install a modchip
install tonyhax on a memory card
install freepsxboot on a memory card
install unirom on a cheat cartridge
just fuck up your drive with a swap trick