/vr/ - Retro Games

>>8888703
I personally love the handling in Daytona USA, you can drift but it's not the magic drift of modern arcade racing games, instead the turning angle is based on the speed reduction which you typically achieve by downshifting. This essentially makes it have the same basic principles as a realistic racing line, namely that you need to know what's the optimal speed to take each corner at and keep a good racing line, but somewhat simplified so that it's more obvious and approachable to laymen. Ridge Racer's drifting and general driving model was much more basic/casual, and GT is a simcade so not really comparable.

SEGA Rally had advanced physics for the time. It's also to just fun to control.

>>8888703
>can anyone tell me what is so special about Daytona and Sega Rally that they are still talked about today? I get it that they were some of the first realistic 3D racers, but beside the novelty factor, what did they really do that Ridge Racer or Gran Turismo games didn't? I'm not a racing fan though, so I'll admit that most racers look the same to me. still, they don't look anything special to me compared to the racers on PS, let alone on 6th gen.

The arcade game came out in 1994, upon release Daytona USA was one of the most impressive looking games on any platform. The game used Sega's Model 2 arcade board, which was capable of 60fps with textured mapped graphics that didn't have any warping or jitteryness. the game stood as a bench mark for 3D graphics in the arcades. But on top of that, the arcade game had a lot of popularity in North America (America) , and was a constant staple in arcades. It was not uncommon to walk into an arcade and find an 8-player arcade set-up. The two player sit-down cab was popular too. It was one of Sega's best selling arcade games, and games in general. Maybe one of the best selling arcade games overall, too? The Saturn port is all around rough in the graphics department. The game runs at 20fps, has massive pop-in. It just doesn't look good, IMO. It did get good scores from magazines for the time. But overall, didn't really help the Saturn hardware as much as it should have. Oddly Namco had more success with Ridge Racer on the PS1. Arguably, Daytona was bigger than Ridge racer in the arcades. Living in Canada, I rarely ever saw Ridge Racer machines, but Daytona 2-player sitdown cabs were common. In many respects gen 5 consoles could never top the Model 2 board. Sega rally, never had the same type of success in the arcades, but did sell really well on the Saturn, and the Saturn port was looked at better than the Daytona USA port.

The arcade versions are what's praised, not the crude Saturn ports.

>>8888703
Anyone with any knowledge of racing games will tell you that Ridge Racer is superior in every way imaginable. Only Sega cultists cling to Daytons and the myth that it was some all time great game. Even Mario Kart is a better racer

>>8888703
daytona usa was in every arcade and the vocals made it memorable

>>8888703
Basically every racer before it was either a horizon chasing pole position like game, a top down rc car feeling affair like super sprint, or a heinously slow but realistic pc racer. The am2 team had documented what it feels like to actually ride in some of these vehicles, developed new theories for racing game design and distilled handling down to a realistic feeling but clearly gamified type of car handling. It started with virtua racing but daytona and rally took a superb refinement to it all and basically redefined all racing games from that point on. The games felt amazing but also had a ton of nuance to the tracks and handling. You always felt you could improve but even a crash combined with the cheery disposition of the games would be fun and exciting.

To see a counter thesia try cruising usa. Any version, the arcade machine is a mess with horrible pop in everywhere, disappearing geometry on the edges and chase the horizon gameplay and feel all while running at a sluggish and erratic framerate. It's just not fun and is amazingly archaic while being premature.

I WANNA FLY SKY HIGH
LET'S GOOOO TOGETHA

>>8888703
ROOOOOOOORING STAAAAAAAAAAAAART and FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINISH.
that's why, the only reason they are still talked about

>>8888797
The popularity of Daytona USA and Sega Rally is relative to each country's own motorsport culture. In Finland Sega Rally 1-2 was and still is the most common arcade cabinet you can come across while I remember seeing Daytona USA only once, even Sega Touring Car Championship was a much more common sight. I bet that in general Sega Rally was more popular than Daytona in the rest of Europe too

Daytona was a novelty but Sega Rally is notable for being the first racing game to allow players to drive on different surfaces, including including asphalt, gravel and mud. Each surface has different friction properties which adjust the car's handling accordingly. Prior to Sega Rally's release, racing games often took a more simplified approach to differing surface types - grass for example might simply reduce the top speed of the car, not affect handling, leading to unrealistic results. These features allow Sega Rally to stand out as a true "rally" game, a sport very much dictated by road surfaces, rather than a generic racing game with rally-esque settings.

>>8888703
For me, they just hit the right spot.
I never got into Ridge Racer drifting and simcades get boring fast.
Sega Rally felt good, even the home/pc versions, and Daytona with a decent wheel is one of the most fun experiences I had with racing games, 2 especially.
Too bad setting a wheel on the model 3 emulator the first time can be intimidating.

>>8888703
DU DU DU DU DU DU DU DU DU DUUUUUU

DAYTONAAAAAA

>>8888703
Because
GAME OVER YEAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>8888986
DAYTONAAA
LET'S GO AWAY
DAYTONAAA
LET'S GO AWAY
HE WINKED AT ME
WAY-YEAH
HE WINKED AT ME
WAY-EEE

>>8888703
> Perfect arcade physics
> Console versions came at a time when we were at the beginning of an era where home console ports were getting to be close to arcade perfect
> Simple, solid gameplay not bogged down by a bunch of unnecessary gameplay elements
> Excellent 90s Sega buttrock soundtracks
> Bright colors, no brown n' bloom or hyperdesaturated 'realism' filters

Asking whats so special about Daytona USA and Sega Rally with regards to arcade racers is like asking what's so special about Street Fighter II to fighting games or Quake for fast paced FPS games.

Gran Autismo is boring if you're not into collecting virtual cars

>>8888770
>SEGA Rally had advanced physics for the time. It's also to just fun to control.

Sega Rally was the first driving game to alter vehicle performance characteristics based on the road surface (the cars would have different grip levels based on what surface they were driving on). This feature was what got Codemasters interested in making a "realistic" Rally racing game, which later became the first Colin McRae Rally (which is now the DiRT series).

>>8888703
I don't get it either. I'm really trying to find good racers on the Saturn and there doesn't appear to be anything. I like N64 for racers, there were tons of them for the system and many of them are great!

>>8888703
Cars go vroom vroom unlike this post which goes zoom zoom

>>8888703
>what did they really do that Ridge Racer
RR had only one track and didn't have the same american appeal as Daytona for obvious reasons, nor yuro appeal for Sega Rally
Gran Turismo was pretty popular but came out like 4 years later, it pretty much popularized the sim/campaign racing subgenre

>>8888770
Daytona USA's drifting physics were also extremely complex compared to anything else out there at the time. There are like four or five different types of drifts you can do based on how you shift the gears.

>>8888820
And somehow i have the opposite opinion. I can't into RR, or RR2, or RR, or RR. The controls are total jank, the graphics are fine for a gen1 PS release, but nothing special even on release. The soundtrack is forgettable. It's not for me.

But i enjoy all three Sega Rally installments, and Daytona and Virtua Racing are great as well. Everything about them pops.

>>8888932
Also true in Aus. DESU i was too noob to understand the powersliding in Daytona games, which is what makes them cool.

I found Cruisin USA much more appealing as a kid, and it was usually cheaper.

>>8888948
Sure it was the first? Would you bet your life on that?

>>8888948
>>8888881
good answers. thanks anons

>>8888703
I hear you OP, this is unfortunately how I felt about a lot of Saturn games. Thankfully they at least gave us SEGA Ages which has better ports of their earlier arcade titles like OutRun.

This thread reminds me I also still need to try the Ridge Racer series

Would you guys like some choonz?
https://youtu.be/n5qwphBhgO4
>>8890368
Play Rage Racer and R4. You will not be disappointed.

>>8888703
Daytona is the best selling arcade title of all time, and it had a full 3d arena with 40 cars on screen running at full 60fps; you could also link up to 8 machines for massive multiplayer gameplay, the cars could be damaged and deformed (which affected their handling), you could turn around and go in reverse or completely off track if you wanted, and so on. This was in 1993, when the most advanced home racing game of the time (not counting Virtua Racing) was Outrun, Mario Kart, Micro Machines, or their clones. The only comparable thing was Ataris Hard Drivin' which was slow as fuck, barely had a track, and every single turn was a challenge to take. Things like Need for Speed wouldn't be made for another two years, Gran Turismo not for another 4.
Ridge Racer was just about the only competition, but as i recall it had far simpler car handling and you couldn't do things like turning the car around.

Sega Rally was a year later and as far as I remember it was the first rally racing game that actually controlled like an off-road rally race, with jumps, long-ass skids kicking up the dirt on the road, etc.

also they both had some baller music tracks.

>>8890340
Previous games had tracks that were entirely mud or entirely pavement or entirely gravel, and the car handle a specific way in each track. Sega Rally had all of these elements present in different sections along one track, for every track. This isn't just me talking, the post you replied to is word for word from just about any article you read about it.

>>8890381
>best selling arcade title of all time
Pac-man.

>>8889662
I was just b8n, didn't think anyone would honestly reply to me. Good day to you sir

>>8890381
>best selling arcade title of all time
Is this nigger serious? It is not even top 10

>>8890408
Invaders has roughly double the amount of units sold compared to Pac.

1. Invaders
2. Pac-Man
3. Street fighter 2

Those 3 are so far ahead of the competition in terms of revenue and units that it's not even fair. Nothing else can come close to touching that trifecta

>>8890432
>>best selling arcade title of all time
>Is this nigger serious? It is not even top 10

It's certainly one of the best selling arcade racers. At least in North America. Those machines were pretty common. Sega even brought back the original Daytona in 2009 as Sega Racing Classics, where they strip the game of the Daytona branding.

>>8889669
The amount of force feedback was also tough on a little kid. Perfect for teens/adults.

>>8890740
There's a huge difference between being a best selling racer in north america, and being THE BEST SELLING ARCADE GAME. Daytona is not even remotely in contention for that title.

>>8890381
>This was in 1993, when the most advanced home racing game of the time (not counting Virtua Racing) was Outrun, Mario Kart, Micro Machines, or their clones
Stunts for the PC came in 1990
https://youtu.be/-hKK4_gvOS0

>>8891002
>this trash looking/playing "racer" came out in 1990
This wouldn't look good for 1980.

>>8888703
The quality of the 3D for the arcade machine was NASA computer tier for 1994 and it ran at 60fps.
Even the 360 port doesn’t render the game exactly like the cabinet.
It was also stock car racing, and boomers, especially boomers not big into video games, loved nascar, so they all played it too.
Music is absurd and interesting, nobody forgot that either.
It’s also just really stylish and bright, it’s segacore aesthetics and those are timeless. Neon paradise.
It’s just magical. Hard to explain.
None of the home ports were very good, they lacked all the ingredients that made the arcade machine so unforgettable.

>>8891060
>The quality of the 3D for the arcade machine was NASA computer tier for 1994 and it ran at 60fps.
to be fair, have to agree here. a year or two later it wouldn't look quite as stunning, but for 94 it probably was jaw-dropping. Doom II and Sonic 3 both released in 1994.

>>8890932
>There's a huge difference between being a best selling racer in north america, and being THE BEST SELLING ARCADE GAME. Daytona is not even remotely in contention for that title.

I'm sure Daytona was still a big seller in Europe too. But not denying that Sega Rally was bigger. Daytona was a landmark title for its 3D graphics.Sega Rally used an updated version of the Model 2 board, so it does look better in many ways. Midway/ Atari's highly touted SanFransisco Rush, which used dual 3DFX chips, was running at about 30fps with slowdown. That game hit arcades in 1996. I loved SanFransisco Rush.

https://youtu.be/ew14gRkA8sQ?t=46

https://youtu.be/OwPQ8KY1OLo?t=43

>>8891090
>a year or two later
It still looks good to this day. Heres a non shovelware pc racer released in 2001 for comparison.

>>8891090
>>The quality of the 3D for the arcade machine was NASA computer tier for 1994 and it ran at 60fps.

As much as I love Nascar 94, everyone I knew with a copy of the game, ran it in software mode, in probably 300x200, at a framerate of about 10-8. Don't get me wrong, it was an impressive Nascar sim. But very few people back then had the hardware to play it at a good framerate. Daytona USA was an arcade game first, it was uhhh.. a loose version of Nascar. The attract screen was eye catching, the game was made to be played in short bursts. I had a Saturn and played Daytona USA on it. I did like that port. It was good overall. Nobody ever expected Model 2 at home with that gen of consoles. But, the game still has issues with heavy pop-in and that 20fps could be a little jarring. It was still a popular Saturn game, and a pack-in game, in North America. It didn't really help sell the Saturn as a 3D powerhouse.

>>8891119
>That game hit arcades in 1996. I loved SanFransisco Rush.

In 1996, Sega releases SCUD Race (Sega Super GT) on their Model 3 board.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQMdLyXWPrI

>>8891009
Zoomer take

>>8891141
for the arcade version, I agree it looks good, the vivid colors aged very well. but still, to me it doesn't exactly look like a big game that would come out in 2001. even for Dreamcast it'd be a tad underwhelming. GT3 came out in 2001. RR Type 4 came out in 1998. Daytona runs very smoothly, but the lighting and textures are very basic compared to those.

>>8891180
>linking Sega Model King
Supremely based. Best game channel on YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J9ffRgADRU
what a happy chappy

>>8891419

>>8891308
Of course techniques were brought to newer platforms and executed in ways that worked on hardware that wasn't $10,000. Daytona was the first game to execute most of it in real time. Besides, there's always the 1998 sequel.

>>8891419
>happy chappy
Is that a James Web reference per chance?

>>8888703
They're fun. Sometimes that's all it takes.

>>8890381
>Ataris Hard Drivin' which was slow as fuck, barely had a track, and every single turn was a challenge to take.

And it's sequel/ upgrade Race Drivin' which has a ridiculously hard stunt track. I actually loved Hard Drivin' though, and became quite good at it. It's one of the few arcade games that had a working clutch. Hard Drivin' was meant to be a car simulator, and was based on driving instructor tutorials, with the 'realistic' crash cam mode. Or about as realistic as they could make it on that hardware. Sega did release Virtua Racing on Model 1 in 1992, which was also a big deal. Though Virtua Racing only ran at 30fps. Namco also had a polygon F1 game too.

>>8888703
>Ridge Racer or Gran Turismo
Physics. Especially in the corners both sega rally and daytona have much more satisfying physics. Also track design. Desert 95 has got to be the most satisfying racing track ever.