Input lag on Raspberry Pi 4B

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Input lag on Raspberry Pi 4B Anonymous Mon Oct 16 21:34:33 2023 No.10328726 [Reply] [Original]

I'm seeing lots of "dancing around" answers online about the input lag on this thing. Lots of "well it's 3-4 frames less than on the 3", it's "really good". Cut the bullshit with your answers please, How many ms of input lag disparity am I looking at versus respective consoles?

>If you just enable run-ahead
Don't start with this snake oil

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 21:49:03 2023 No.10328758 >>10328726 >>>/g/

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 21:50:53 2023 No.10328764 >>10328758 This post is pertaining to playing retro games such as Megaman X and Megaman 2.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 22:13:39 2023 No.10328820 >>10328726 Why would you get a 4b when you can buy the 5 right now for $10 more?

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 22:33:01 2023 No.10328863 >>10328726 What TV are you playing it on? Real hardware will have input lag on modern TVs, because of the post processing of the image. Your TV probably has a "gaming" mode that turns it off.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 22:34:59 2023 No.10328869 >>10328726 God I hate this board. Emulation will always have input lag and should be avoided at all costs. Alright I am going back to /v/ now.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 22:41:44 2023 No.10328880 >>10328863 Sony A80J OLED, on Game mode

Anonymous Mon Oct 16 22:49:10 2023 No.10328894
File: 85 KB, 200x244, hit-42788186.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10328726
You're getting "dancing around" answers because your question shows a lack of understanding about how emulation works, so your answers are from other nimrods who also don't know how it works and are just pulling numbers out their ass.

How is each emulator configured? What overclock does your Pi have? What game are you running? Which system are you running? What display are you using?

There are WAY too many variables and emulation input lag is going to be very different based on them. GENERALLY the more powerful of a system you're using the more ability you have to mitigate lag however, so if you care about lag emulating on a Pi isn't a good choice, especially since you have basically no hope of using run-ahead.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 22:50:25 2023 No.10328897 >>10328894 >>10328726 Also i dont see how run ahead is "snake oil", that is just retarded to say.

Anonymous Mon Oct 16 22:56:37 2023 No.10328910

>>10328894
On optimal settings;
With RetroPie going to an HD Display vs respective hardware going through an OSSC to the same display. What is the disparity in input lag?

This isn't difficult, just give a number if you know what you're talking about, though I suspect you don't.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 23:02:14 2023 No.10328918 File: 15 KB, 649x503, 1697497316895.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10328910 Here are some numbers retro pi published for the raspberry pi 3

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 23:04:31 2023 No.10328920 >>10328918 And 4b is only 1 frame less, fuuuuuuck man. Original hardware on CRT forever then, fuck emulation.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 23:22:35 2023 No.10328961 >>10328910 You're a dense fucktard and cant read, I hope a car crashes through your window tonight.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 23:26:30 2023 No.10328970 >>10328961 Not my fault you don't understand English, have a nice day.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 23:29:12 2023 No.10328979 >>10328920 That's why you get the raspberry pi 5 for an additional frame less plus enough headroom to use runahead

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 23:31:36 2023 No.10328985 >>10328920 >>10328918 Not accurate. You really think people are playing mario with 8 frames of lag? Absolute retard.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 23:32:17 2023 No.10328989 Just took a video at 60fps, with 2 frames of run-ahead, I'm getting 5 frames of input lag, This type of setup is on par or even better than a Mister too, I feel bad for anyone not playing on original hardware..

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 23:38:53 2023 No.10328996 >>10328918 5 frames of lag is unplayable. Wow.

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 23:47:24 2023 No.10329012 Directly wired, I got 4 frames of input lag on 2 frame run-ahead, that's 6 frames in total. What garbage, wow

>>	Anonymous Mon Oct 16 23:53:25 2023 No.10329016 >>10328758 >>10328764 Anon wasn't being flippant, /g/ is a better place for this if you actually want an informed answer. Now, if you need a 50 post discussion about whether or not a game "is retro", this is the board you want.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 00:04:17 2023 No.10329040 >>10328726 I haven't noticed any input lag myself

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 00:06:34 2023 No.10329043 >>10329040 Have you played it side by side with the real thing?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 00:10:15 2023 No.10329046 File: 1.91 MB, 2755x2339, Bangai-O on Pi4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10329043 No I simply played the games and had fun

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 00:15:48 2023 No.10329057 >>10329046 I use to think this way until I went to an arcade or a friends house who had original hardware and none of my shit worked the way I was use to.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 00:28:14 2023 No.10329081 >>10329057 Nevertheless, I don't think there's any game that demands you react within 7ms without notice; you can get through your games with 7ms of preemption whenever you press a button

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 00:49:18 2023 No.10329110 Emulation on ARM is absolute ghetto tier.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 00:49:29 2023 No.10329112 >>10328726 Tested myself and got around 3~4 frames of input lag, but that's considering my TV screen. For reference, a standard PC on the same output has around 2~3 frames of lag.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 01:14:05 2023 No.10329158 >>10328918 How is it even possible for it to be so bad? What kind of nonsense is the software on that device doing? An emulator should add 1 frame + usb latency, if you are seeing multiple extra lag frames then something is profoundly broken.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 02:31:40 2023 No.10329359 >>10329057 Right? When this happened to me it was like turning super saiyan for the first time. It took a little while to get used to my new powers.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 02:34:53 2023 No.10329368 >>10329081 7 frames not several ms, each frame is 16ms. So 7x16ms.

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 02:42:34 2023 No.10329382

>>10329158
Usually, when results are presented, there's also some accompanying methodology, which either was omitted here or never explained in the first place. Anyway, a few points I'd guess are:

>RetroPie
A pioneer and deserves respect. However, it's clunky and ill-optimized. There are better solutions for a Pi4, like Batocera and Lakka. As SBCs get better, you'll be able to install a regular OS and things will be more like the PC experience.
>Wireless controllers
Given the high values and fluctuations, it's a possibility. People seem afraid of wires. They shouldn't be.
>Internal and display lag
Every game's logic takes time to process inputs. Some of them takes several frames. Super Mario World, for instance, takes 3 frame worth of internal logic to process your inputs. That's on the game, so it'll happen even on a CRT. Also, if the measurement took place using a LCD screen, then its latency will add up to the final value.

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 02:43:27 2023 No.10329383

>>10329158
Same reason all those Switch "ports" of shmups that are really emulators in fancy clothes have such terrible input lag numbers. Emulation needs a stupidly fast single core doing all the work and if you don't have enough horsepower to do it, you need to buffer frames and thread everything and that all adds input lag. This is in addition to the extra frame you lose due to modern OS compositing and the video driver buffering your draw calls to please itself.
PCs are only "better" because with such big meaty CPUs they can get the controllable input lag down to sub 1-frame, but all the rest of it is unavoidable on modern hardware. It's sad. DOS ZSNES didn't have input lag. You wrote a pixel to the framebuffer RAM and it would appear on your CRT as soon as the scan beam reached it. There wasn't even a double buffer swap chain.
Someone should develop a direct memory interface video card we can plug in and get that kind of low latency again. You've got people developing FPGA consoles, surely a modern VGA card and direct audio is easy compared to that?

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 03:02:20 2023 No.10329429 >>10328726 Get a Pi 5

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 17:02:03 2023 No.10330774 >>10329383 are they really that bad? anything below 4ms is good, no? I know that electric underground guy does tests for them and most of the m2 shotniggers releases were like 3ms

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 17:56:38 2023 No.10330932

>>10329383
>Someone should develop a direct memory interface video card we can plug in and get that kind of low latency again.
Technically, thats what the VESA video standard does, just no one really uses VESA for anything other then a fall back if you don't have drivers for a video device anymore.

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 18:31:22 2023 No.10331008 >>10330932 NTA, but would it be technically feasible to run an emulator like that? If yes, would the benefit be relevant?

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 18:33:50 2023 No.10331014

>>10331008
Absolutely.
There use to be old versions of MAME that ran on DOS and did this for the ultimate low latency experience.
How much better is it? Honestly I can't say for myself. Never really tried it. For emulation, my X11 desktop with composition turned off and using a VRR monitor is good enough for me.

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 19:04:35 2023 No.10331096

>>10328726
I still use a Raspberry Pi 3B+ for FinalBurn Neo on a tiny Sony CRT. The input delay is impossible to ignore when I come back home from the arcades. It makes me crazy hoping maybe I am not seeing a setting that will help me lower the delay because a lot of people keep spouting off about runahead or "placebos".

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 19:35:35 2023 No.10331171 >>10329429 it's not cpu specs causing the latency

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 19:46:57 2023 No.10331195 >>10330774 Not 3ms, 3 frames which is approx 48ms. If a shmup port has 3 frames on the PS4 then it will have 4 on the Switch, it’s always more.

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 21:16:04 2023 No.10331423

Here's a little pasta I created. If you're using RetroArch, here are some general tips to improve input lag, if you haven't done them yet:
>Make sure your display's refresh rate is properly calibrated inside of "Configuration > Video > Output". Let the "Estimated Screen Refresh Rate" stabilize and confirm the value.
>Mess with the "Polling Behavior" option inside of "Configuration > Latency". I've had better results with "Early", discover what works better for you.
>Go to "Configuration > Latency". If your video driver is gl or glcore, enable "Hard GPU Sync" and leave it at 0 frame. If your video driver is vulkan, set "Max Swapchain Images" to value 2. The latter is better than the former, though it might introduce some problems in Dreamcast and Nintendo 64 emulation.
Also, notice that:
>Your RetroArch core might introduce lag. Stick to the better options for each system, to minimize that. Some systems have more than one good core.
>Your OS, display screen and controller may also add latency. Handle them separately, since it's beyond RetroArch's control.

Hope this helps!

>>	Anonymous Tue Oct 17 21:39:28 2023 No.10331476 >>10331423 >Mess with the "Polling Behavior" option inside of "Configuration > Latency" What does this even do though?

Anonymous Tue Oct 17 22:19:20 2023 No.10331585

>>10331476
Determines when your input is polled during the generation of a frame. Technically, it would be better if the polling was up to the very last moment of frame generation, giving you more time to input your command. In practice, there are too many variables and fluctuations, so you need to play with the settings to find the best value for a given setup.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 04:56:26 2023 No.10332235 >>10329016 I just wanted him to get real answers not the same “yeah but with runahead!” copes

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 09:24:36 2023 No.10332509 File: 53 KB, 1080x810, my coomlection.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Not my problem.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 10:18:57 2023 No.10332567 >>10332509 Thanks, we prefer emulators that actually run games that have been emulatable for the last 20 years on computers.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 10:31:51 2023 No.10332581 >>10332567 Enjoy your lag.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 11:24:53 2023 No.10332624 >>10332567 Mister is mostly a meme but lag is genuinely one thing it does better than software emulators.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 11:35:50 2023 No.10332647 File: 741 KB, 420x310, 6545bb127ecc15debd2ca4734420bcb7.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10328726 Is it worth putting linux on this thing? Will I be able to emulate less if I do?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 11:38:43 2023 No.10332651 >>10328989 Lmao I get 1 frame of lag with the MiSTer. Same as real hardware.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 11:40:38 2023 No.10332658 >>10332647 What else would you put on it? RISC OS?

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 11:44:12 2023 No.10332664 >>10332658 I assumed most people just left the PI OS on there and ran retropie.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 11:45:52 2023 No.10332665 >>10332664 Pi OS is Linux.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 12:20:24 2023 No.10332702 >>10328726 what rts is that? noise graphics

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 12:41:16 2023 No.10332730 >>10331585 Thanks

Anonymous Wed Oct 18 12:46:39 2023 No.10332732
File: 2.09 MB, 4032x3024, Suffering_from_pi_shortage.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10328726
I have been looking for an older Pi with the 40-pin header and USB ports so I could use this. The creator says the latency is 0.5ms to 1ms depending on the generation of the Pi. How much was the pre-pandemic prices of these things? I've got about $10USD, and I figure there has to be some students who must have figured engineering was not for them and has it gathering dust. I'd like to give it a try and 0.5-1.0ms doesn't seem like a lot of latency to me.

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 13:48:33 2023 No.10332829 >>10332732 >impromptu pic Wtf does that mean? All the other pics were taken before and waiting a proper time to be posted? Is that what we mean to you, pre-made responses? You will take each picture in real-time, according to the thread!

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 13:57:12 2023 No.10332846 File: 1.33 MB, 245x175, 1396359113430.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10332829

>>	Anonymous Wed Oct 18 17:28:28 2023 No.10333239 >>10332846 Pics, now.

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