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/vr/ - Retro Games

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3288496 No.3288496 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

So after avoiding this game every time I ever saw it (because I believed the meme that it was "bad"), I finally got around to playing it.

All I can say is:

>>>Holy shit.

Maybe it's because I expected the game to be extremely bad that I enjoyed it, but I really don't see what all the fuss is about. The only flaws I can really comment on are the insane amount of boss hp, and issues with distinguishing between background and foreground occasionally. In the end, aside from a few minor gripes, the game has excellent music, great responsiveness, and is challenging, but not entirely unfair.

What other games do you guys believe get a bad wrap but don't quite live up to their reputation of shit when put to the test?

>> No.3288502

Its probably one of my favorite NES games. It is just fucking incredibly difficult, but lots of NES games can be. Doesnt make it bad

>> No.3288507

why did The Cuck ruin this game's reputation

>> No.3288534

Agreed, Silver Surfer is great. My only complaint is that your rate of fire is too low, and tapping becomes uncomfortable. This is of course remedied with an autofire controller, though.

>> No.3288742

What if you emulate?

>> No.3288745

i'm willing to bet it didn't even have one before he talked about it

>> No.3288772

i have a controller with autofire setup and i can say that tapfiring is WAAAAAAAAAAY better, i can get your point though, after trying to beat this game my thumb muscles were rockhard

>> No.3289264

Has it been portrayed as bad? It was just hard as fuck.

>> No.3289273

The 7th Saga has lots of cool ideas, it's not nearly as hard or unfair or grindy as people make it out to be and save for the one instance where you risk screwing yourself over it's completely fine to play.

It stands better as a JRPG than a beloved title like Phantasy Star IV which has barely more to its name than good-looking anime cutscenes.

>> No.3289325

The entire video amounted to 'WAH IT'S TOO HARD' over and over again.

Once you get to full power it becomes piss easy, the difficulty only comes in if you die and lose all your power. That's pretty much the only reason he found it so hard, because he was playing the whole game at 0 power.

If you die in the last few stages though you better know exactly what the fuck you're doing or it's game over.

>> No.3289435

What's the one bit where you can fuck yourself over?

>> No.3289442
File: 2.92 MB, 1534x2100, diehard.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Outside of very bad graphics for a late NES release and odd soundtrack this is a pretty good game, spraying with smg is fun and it actually follows the movie, while also allowing you to play it your way.

>> No.3289459
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> 10/10 atmosphere
> fun
> as diverse as can be without being battletoads
> mostly fair challenge (well, a lot of it)
> one of the most memorable tunes
> infinite continues: how often do you see that?
I grant you, it may not be among classics like megaman and mario, but it's certainly up there.

And I guess if we're gonna mention games criticized for being hard, it's gonna be battletoads >3rd level, ninja gaiden >have to start over from 6-1 (boo fucking hoo, you got infinite continues, shithole), etc.

>> No.3289496

I've been watching a lot of avgn lately. James sucks at vidya. Mike is a lot better and bootsy is a legend.
Even mike has commented on a few games not being bad but hard that have been in avgn episodes.

>> No.3289501

yeezy yeezy what's good

>> No.3289510

> bootsy is a legend
> Even mike has commented on a few games not being bad but hard that have been in avgn episodes.
It kinda goes without saying that AVGN is more of a tongue-in-cheek, than objective criticism. Although it does hurt his whole showcase of gamer-back-then, since few people sucked that much.

What triggers me most tho
> People say X is easy once you've practiced, but I've been playing it for 20-30 years
No you fucking haven't. If you just dedicated a good couple of hours PER FUCKING YEAR, you would've beaten Ninja Gaiden. You just played it for months back then, maybe a couple of times throughout the years and now for the episode.

>> No.3289557

Though the Bootsy character in Board James is a jinx, the real Bootsy is notorious for being a very skilled gamer and has beaten many difficult video games. As of 8/02/2016, Bootsy holds several unofficial high score records for Atari 2600 games, as well as many top ten entries, over at JVGS 2600 high score list.


Search for bootsy spankins.

>> No.3289567

What about 8 bit tho?

>> No.3289595
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>> No.3289631

I think the reputation came from a lot of people playing it that were not aware how difficutlt shmups are.

The infinite continues kind of destroyed the difficulty. You reached checkpoints too early.

>> No.3289650
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Git Gud: The Game

I think the only reason it's ever criticized is because it doesn't meet everyone's expectations of what a (Final Fantasy) RPG should be. The mechanics are much closer to something you'd see in a SaGa game. That said, there's nothing *wrong* with the mechanics, people are just so tragically mistaken about how the game works that they're quick to point out "bugs" and "imbalances" that don't actually exist.

>> No.3289665

Well I'll be damned

>> No.3289669

you know it's a character, right?

>> No.3289670

does that really make a difference? The perception and impact is the same

>> No.3289675
File: 40 KB, 250x250, Mortal_Kombat_Special_Forces.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

It's a mediocre game bordering on decent and it doesn't deserve the notoriety it has. If someone legitimately hates this game, please tell why.

>> No.3289680

uh... wut.

>> No.3289747

Most emulators have autofire options.

>> No.3289757

>The mechanics are much closer to something you'd see in a SaGa game

Now you caught my interest. I usually never play Final Fantasy because it's way too fucking generic, slow and boring. How close it is in mechanics?

>> No.3289771

if your level is over 60 your rival gains a healing spell rendering the fight near impossible

>> No.3289773

can you tilt the scales in your favor again by levelling even higher? Like, does there come a point when you hit harder than your opponent can realistically recover?

>> No.3289775

Only connection is the stat growth not being tied to level and instead to combat performance.

>> No.3289784


It's a SaGa game minus the ability to combo skills. It probably would have made sense if there were a magic combo system similar to Crystal Chronicles though. There's no -ra / -aga magic in the game since your spells have associated skill levels with them.

All of your characters are blank slates, and you choose how to outfit them and level up their skills. Rather than having experience levels, your stats and skills go up as you put them to use.

>> No.3289842

7th saga has a system where the pool of potential party members also end up filling other story roles if you do not play as them. One character becomes your rival and takes one of the runes you need to continue the game. If that character happens to be the healer valsu and you have reached a high enough level then valsu will have access to a full cure spell. Full cure being "full hp and mp".

>levelling even higher?
The rival character levels up as you do.

>> No.3289873 [DELETED] 


>> No.3291054

Not his fault people are fucking autistic.

>> No.3292884

Doom 64 was recently criticized by J&M for being dark, but it's actually perfectly fine when you turn the brightness on max (it's on min by default). Great fucking game, much better then 2 and possibly even 1.

>> No.3292908


All N64 and PS1 games had a problem with brightness setting.

>> No.3292972
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People who shit on Silver Surfer have obviously never played Starship Hector.


Just fucking look at it.

>> No.3293072

Doesn't look too hard

>> No.3293085

Phantasy Star IV has amazing pacing, music, and combo attacks. It's not complex, but what it does it does very well.

>> No.3293142

I didn't finish FF2, but I disliked the games quest set up.
>okay so next we gotta take down the empires airship
>but to do that we need this rock
>but to get to that rock we need this sled
>and to get to that sled we need this other thing!

Part of what makes a jrpg for me is a series of accomplishment at the end of the dungeon as you push a story forwards. A series of fetch quests isn't as satisfying.

Like I said though, didn't finish. Maybe it got better.

>> No.3293978
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My vote goes to Deadly Towers.

Sure, it's not a great game, but it's very ambitious for its time and not at all unplayable. I get the feeling most people play games like these in an emulator for about five to ten minutes without attempting to understand the game or giving it a real chance.

>> No.3294139

Japanese GnG has zero continues (unless you use a code). The arcade original is much better, though.

>> No.3294157
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The thing is, you NEED a wheel to play it, it's unplayable with a controller. Pretty much like most of early Dualshock compatible games on PS1, they're actually pretty good with a negCon.

>> No.3294390

Psh, it's not August this year yet.

>> No.3294434

Good on you senpai. I think this game is cool as shit.

>the music when you burn a bell

>> No.3294469

People only criticize them because of AVGN. They're good games actually.

>> No.3294487

Huh? Lester the unlikely is terrible.

>> No.3294506

>Issues with distinguishing between background and foreground
I never had any problem with that. Keep shooting, if your fire goes through, you can go through, not that hard.

>> No.3294507

Yeah, the only minimally redeeming feature is how the character "mans up" after certain events, but that's all the amusement it provides. Controls are sluggish even when you are given full control by the second half of the game, some of the jumping challenges are just bullshit, and the final part with the swordfights is tedious as hell. The game is just not very good. At all.

>> No.3294508


>> No.3294897

Yes. The whole point is the find a game that isn't good and rip it apart. It's not as hard as he says in the video, but it isn't good at all.

>> No.3295013

James is based as fuck. Not his fault autistic people can't think for themselves and only follow memes

>> No.3295017

In before some uber-hipster contrarian posts Big Rigs.

>> No.3295030

Actually, James liked that game for how terrible it was. Expect everyone to hate it because James liked it.

>> No.3295045
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I've beaten this game 6 or 7 times, on PSP, GBA and original release, and I want to say this. While it's nowhere as bad as the rap it gets, it is not very good either. A lot of options are actually bad, broken or unintuitive. There is no getting gud because aside from managing your MP in the midgame, there is no strategy involved at all and your builds only make so much difference unless it's something broken like Toad or evasion tank. It's not as deep as you think. Dungeon design is horrid at times, and the way they handled temporary party members was meh at best. The story was just a bunch of fetch quests. It's 6/10 at best, and that's if you're a fan of the genre and can deal with its idiosyncrasies. Exalting it as the best in the series because it's "different" is honestly just being contrarian, and I'm saying that as someone who legit liked it.

>> No.3295124

>Git Gud: The Game
There is no skill involved in this game though to get good at. It IS challenging as hell (the Famicom version is anyway, I'm personally glad the PSP version toned it down) but how many enemies you're willing to fight is not 'git gud'.

>"bugs" and "imbalances" that don't actually exist.

The Famicom version IS bugged to hell. We know that NASIR was rushed on this one so a lot of shit does not work as intended. Later remakes fixed a lot of the poor programming, which actually ends up highlighting the horrible dungeon design. Jade Passage was awesome, the rest are silly monster closet amatuer stuff.

I think the game has great music, a good story even (for the time), and I do enjoy fighting lots and lots of monsters. Gameplay is the weakest part. It's a challenge in the laziest way. Still a challenge if you like one, but I don't think it's good.

Is that Leela/Leeyla? Hot.

>> No.3295159

He was trying to be funny. AVGN is comedy not serious game reviews you fucking autistic mongs.

>> No.3296635
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I still think this is better than kung fu. It's short but the challenge is decent and the gameplay is really varied.

>> No.3296720

>A lot of options are actually bad, broken or unintuitive.

Toad and Mini abuse are pretty common tactics, but individually, all of the KO spells are "broken." The only difference between them is that each corresponds to a different element, and that element determines whether or not a given enemy will resist the effect. Enemy elemental resistance and absorption are fairly consistently balanced. Toad and Mini only seem to be more effective than other choices, but all the KO spells are ultimately just as useful.

This is common design element throughout the SaGa series. Spells or skills that petrify or KO foes tend to be effective all the way into the final dungeon, and sometimes against bosses as well. I don't find it broken. It seems logical that status spells would actually do something and continue to do something without becoming obsolete. This is in contrast to your typical FF game where nearly every enemy mid-game and onward will probably have resistance to every given status effect.

>There is no getting gud because aside from managing your MP in the midgame, there is no strategy involved at all

Sure there is. A lot of character builds are effective, given you take the time to level up their skills appropriately. It doesn't entirely matter how you choose to play through the game, as long as you're consistent with the skills you want to apply. As for things you believe to be "broken," you're just referencing high-level skills that are doing what they're supposed to do. Toad is a KO spell, thus at high levels it's much more likely to hit enemies... and KO them. You could likewise coast through the game with any other KO spell that you've sufficiently leveled up. You could also coast through the game if you had invested the same amount of time leveling bare-handed attacks, or grinding character HP into the thousands and transforming your party into damage sponges.


>> No.3296725


The important thing is that the game allows you this kind of flexibility and developmental potential. Your characters can be whatever you want them to be, and they don't necessarily become obsolete as long as you specialize in a few areas and don't try to alternate tactics too much. It's not like, say, FF5 where skills are static and never level up with you. Players usually rely on strategies like dual-wield + RapidFire, or just blatantly abusing GilToss. Meanwhile, every class but Mime has become obsolete, and you aren't going to touch half the skills you mastered earlier on because they remain under-powered.

>It's not as deep as you think.

It's every bit (mechanically) as deep as Elder Scrolls. There are plenty of "broken" strategies in those games as well. Are you really going to fault the game itself when someone overspecializes their character and ends up breaking things?

>Dungeon design is horrid at times

Can you come up with some specific examples? I'm thinking you may be referring to stuff like trap rooms.

>The story was just a bunch of fetch quests.

I thought the spartan plot and character development was a delightful throwback to the Aristotelian unities. It's not as easy to forget the characters or the setting when they're not so needlessly contrived.

>> No.3296754

Funny, most of his fans seem to think games he insults are genuinely bad.

>> No.3296774

Most AVGN fanboys are just underage who never actually grew up in the era.

>> No.3296782

it's actually a good game. all you need is occasional savestates to balance the difficulty, and autofire.

>> No.3296880

Both these things are true. James knows it, too. Most of the games he's reviewed he doesn't have anything personal against, and entertainment has always been his goal rather than actual analytical critique. It kind of speaks to how successful he's been at it that he feels the need to seperate himself from the character, a lot of kids seem to think he's serious and they take on that opinion that these games are crimes against mankind.

>> No.3297065
File: 65 KB, 368x524, NES-E2-USA-REV-A.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Snake's Revenge has a worse reputation than it deserves due to its status as a non-canon western-only sequel to the NES Metal Gear.

Yes, it has some legitimate flaws: the side-scrolling segments are needless padding, your radio contacts give advice that are too vaguely worded to be effective (even when an enemy spy tries to trick you into falling into a trap) and there's some bullshit gotcha moments, but it all seems to be blown out of proportions because it's not a Kojima game and we got this instead of the proper Metal Gear 2. It was fine for an NES game and doesn't deviated that much from the first game's format in fact, it's just as good as first MSX game, if not better.

>> No.3297179
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>> No.3297205

I don't know anybody who's called Silver Surfer bad, just ballbustingly difficult

>> No.3297253

> tfw people actually think NJ and battletoads are hard after watching AVGN

>> No.3297295

>calling anime characters "hot"

official virgin seal of quality

>> No.3297665

>Where do you think we are?

>> No.3298089

>Full cure being "full hp and mp"

That sounds OP af

>> No.3298162

>Bootsy is notorious for being a very skilled gamer and has beaten many difficult video games.

Hi Bootsy, didn't know you frequented /vr/.

Anyway, he's not a legend, he just practices a lot. Anyone could do it with enough patience and time.

>> No.3298206

The dude has held world records, he's gone beyond good.

>> No.3298218

AVGN always, ALWAYS exaggerates. It's been the truth since episode one. Many of the criticisms he showcased for this game in his video were mostly true, but he exaggerated. It severely needed an autofire option in the game without buying a specific controller for it, because you really do need to shoot constantly.

>> No.3298223


Are you seriously trying to diss someone's skill because they attained it through practice and hard work? You must not have any respect for anyone's skill, then.

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