/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.3321978]

Why Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 are still acclaimed has masterpiece when they're objectively really bad games?

Colours and Generation are really superior and awesome games but nobody calls it "masterpiece" or "the last good Sonic games"

C'mon, even Secret rings, Black knight and Unleashed are better games!!!

So why!!!

[Anonymous No.3321984]

Fans really wanted new flagship Sonic games so they transferred their reverence for the Genesis games to these ones, even though they're not great. Reminds me of Metroid Prime or Mario 64.

[Anonymous No.3321985]

>>3321984
B-but the three Metroid Prime ARE masterpiece
not Mario 64, fuck that piece of shit with non existant level design and platforming

[Anonymous No.3321992]

>>3321985
> non existant level design and platforming

I don't get this meme

[Anonymous No.3322009]

>>3321978
>Colours
Sucks. Lame 2D Sonic, lame 3D Sonic. The game is plain unfun and utterly unSonic like. Level design is wrong, physics are wrong, it does had a good artistic direction and isn't broken by bugs but that certainly doesn't make it any good.
>Secret rings, Black knight and Unleashed are better games!!!
Ah, so it was a bait thread all along.

[Anonymous No.3322013]

Arin pls go

[Anonymous No.3322025]

>>3321978
> Game never had anything even nearing a consistently positive reception
> Randomly call it "acclaimed masterpiece" since debunking such a status automatically makes the game bad (OoT Theorem)
> ?????????? (though the word 'objectively' plays a self-sustaining role somewhere in there)
> Profit, I guess?

[Anonymous No.3322031]

>>3321978
Who said they're masterpieces? Who. Who?

This thread is so dumb. We can't enjoy a nostalgic game on /vr/ of all places without being told we think it's the second coming?

The music is a masterpiece is an opinion I'd agree with but the games were far from perfect then and they're far from perfect now.

But, no, you exposed us, guy. It's not a masterpiece. Take your detective gold star and leave, satisfied.

[Anonymous No.3322057]

>>3321985
This is shitty bait, saying m64 has no level design is like saying an object has no shape. And first minute of stage 1 has moving platforms and a bridge.

[Anonymous No.3322112]

>>3322057
>moving platform and a bridge
HOLY SHIT NOT ONLY PLATFORM
MOVING PLATFORM
AND A FUCKING BRIDGE
BEST LEVEL DESIGN EVER
PLATFORM AS IT'S FINEST

And this is why i hate Mario64fags

[Anonymous No.3322117]

>>3322009
>Ah, so it was a bait thread all along.
Let's see..
Better graphic
Better music
Better level design
Better controls
Better story
>Colours is bad
This is bait kind sir

[Anonymous No.3322137]

>>3321978
>C'mon, even Secret rings, Black knight and Unleashed are better games!!!
>So why!!!
because you're gay

stop caring about these trivial dilemmas, people are always going to like what they like have terrible reasons for doing so

and to the rest of /vr/, you're gay also

[Anonymous No.3322141]

>>3322112
Tell us how you really feel. Did Mario64 touch you somewhere it shouldnt have?

[Anonymous No.3322347]

>>3322031
>Who said they're masterpieces?
Dude, three of the results you came up with say it's a masterpiece. This is a bait thread, but shit man, work on proving your points better.

[Anonymous No.3322348]

>>3321978
>Colours and Generation are really superior
Please do me a favor and get the fuck out of the internet. As far as I'm concerned, Colours and Generations are shit, horrible games that represent everything wrong with modern gaming.

For all the "objectively bad games" bullshit everyone who dislikes SA1 and 2 spouts, these two games are actual videogames in the sense that you can actually play, as opposed to letting a single button do 90% of the work in "going fast."

Anyone who claims the controls in SA1 and 2 are bad are fucking retarded. They're the objectively best 3D Sonic game controls ever and not a single game in the franchise before or since has done them even remotely close to being just as good. The only objective reason to call SA1 and 2 of being in any way bad are as follows:

1 - Glitches & bugs (including accidental clipping through walls, floors etc.) of which there aren't many, unless you are actively trying to.

There is no other objective reason. None whatsoever. The controls are good, the camera never fails unless you're using it wrong, the graphics aren't bad for its time (especially considering SA1 came right after the 32 bit era and it's meant to look cartoonish, not realistic), and saying anything in them is annoying or boring is being subjective.

You wouldn't know the meaning of "Objectively bad game design" even if you were playing Resident Evil 6.
Now fuck off with your useless autism you cunt nugget.

[Anonymous No.3322357]

>>3322348
RE6 is a good game
You like SA1 and 2
You dislike RE6
...
OH! I see
You have shit taste

[Anonymous No.3322362]

>>3322357
>RE6 is a good game
>You have shit taste
Bait harder, please. I don't think you're putting enough retardation into it.

[Anonymous No.3322365]

>>3322357
avin a giggle m8

[Anonymous No.3323128]

The fucking games only averaged 'good' scores ON RELEASE. That was fifteen years ago and all people ever say about them now is about how badly they've aged. Yeah, 'acclaimed masterpiece' alright, what a gyp.

[Anonymous No.3323260]

>>3322348
Or you could say SA1 sucks because
>it's a broken, buggy, mess
>it has awful, unskippable cutscenes
>the story is terrible
>unresponsive camera that you have to fight more often than you should
>it forces you to play through recycled bits of Sonic's levels as a bunch of other characters in order to pad out the game's length
>mostly awful boss fights that you have to play over and over again because the game recycles so much content between the characters
>boring levels with one path that don't reward multiple playthroughs because the game lacks intuitive ways to build momentum

Fuck, man. I could keep going. SA1 is an awful, awful game. Just played through it again with a buddy a couple of weeks ago and any nostalgia I had for it was just shattered.

SA2 is pretty alright, though. We played through it right after the first one.

[Anonymous No.3323265]

>>3321978
>acclaimed has masterpiece

BR?

[Anonymous No.3323270]

>>3323260
>broken, buggy mess
Sonic 06 says hi, at least Adventure's doesn't completely break a game.
>it has awful, unskippable cutscenes
Skippable in the ports.
>story is terrible
Okay I'll give you that one.
>unresponsive camera
Play the ports.
>Most awful boss fights
I will also give you this one.
>Boring levels with one path
Did you even play as the other characters?

[Anonymous No.3323271]

holy smokes WHY are sonic fans ALWAYS autistic?

[Anonymous No.3323316]

>>3321978
Sonic Adventure 2 is the last good Sonic game.

[Anonymous No.3324020]

>>3323260
>>it's a broken, buggy, mess
Subjective opinion. It's only buggy sometimes and far from being a mess.
>>it has awful, unskippable cutscenes
Subjective opinion. I think the cutscenes had their charm at the time
>>the story is terrible
Again, subjective. I think the story is fine. It is for kids afterall and I was a kid when I played it the first time, 13 years old or so.
>>unresponsive camera that you have to fight more often than you should
Occasionally, yes. Most of the time, no.
>>it forces you to play through recycled bits of Sonic's levels as a bunch of other characters in order to pad out the game's length
Fine, I'll give you this one, but it's no different from Sonic 2, 3, etc. where you have multiple playable characters and they all go through the exact same levels. At least in Sonic Adventure, each reused level was redesigned specifically for each character.
>>mostly awful boss fights that you have to play over and over again because the game recycles so much content between the characters
You're being subjective again with the "awful boss fights." Objectively, they're no worse than any other boss in older games.
>>boring levels with one path that don't reward multiple playthroughs because the game lacks intuitive ways to build momentum
This is completely wrong. In the original SA1 replaying the levels activated optional challenges that would award you with emblems and eventually unlock playable Metal Sonic. In DX, they also added many of the SA2 Chao Garden features, making it even more worth replaying levels to get not just animals but also rings to spend in the CHao Black Market. Now whether you like raising Chao or not is irrelevant. The game did reward you for replaying levels. Your little bit of "lacking intuitive ways to build momentum" implies that you do prefer the Colours formula of simply holding a button to "go fast." If you want to build momentum you need to learn how to play well, learn the levels. You know, just like in older games.

[Anonymous No.3324024]

Everything that was wrong in Sonic 06 was also wrong in Sonic Adventure 1 and 2.

>Bugs
>Loose controls
>Bad scamera
>Bad story
>Content recycling
>Terrible side-characters which actually take up a majority of the game

[Anonymous No.3324135]

>>3321978

It's an age thing, /vr/ is full of early 20s guys who were around 5 years old when Sonic Adventure came out.
and Sonic with his EDGY look really appealed to them, so they go on /vr/ and talk about how great Adventure was.
Because actually admitting that Adventure was the first terrible Sonic game would mean they'd have to admit their first exposure to a Sonic game was a bad one.

[Anonymous No.3324148]

>>3324135
>/vr/ is full of early 20s guys who were around 5 years old when Sonic Adventure came out.
I highly doubt that.

[Anonymous No.3324158]

Sonic Adventure is pretty good desu. I think people shit on it far too much, but Sonic Adventure 2 really is AIDS.

[Anonymous No.3324162]

>>3324135
>EDGY
4chan has really beaten all meaning out of this word.

[Anonymous No.3324203]

I always felt the good reviews for Sonic Adventure were pretty much just wishful thinking under the "Sega's back, baby" vibe, and that the game was pretty mediocre.

I mean, look how much lower the DX version scored, and that was only a few years later, after Sega was kill.

[Anonymous No.3324206]

Sonic didn't work in 3D because Sega tried to bolt a 3rd dimension onto the existing formula.

Who knows, maybe that's what Nintendo initially tried with Mario 64 - but had the intuition and the pragmatism to see that it clearly wasn't working at all - and that a complete rethink was needed.

Hence Mario 64 is far less of a platforming game and more of a n adventure/exploration game with the emphasis on fulfilling mission criteria, rather than simply running a gauntlet from A to B.

[Anonymous No.3324656]

>>3321978
>this game is objectively bad
>it is a fact that this game is bad
>my opinions are facts
>my tastes are superior to yours
Go back to /v/, dumbass. Nobody wants you here. Also, me liking the Sonic Adventure games doesn't mean that they were my introduction to the series. I played the shit out of all five Classic games, especially CD, years before I even knew what most 3D Sonic games were even like.

[Anonymous No.3324672]

>>3324203
That's because the DX version is fucking horrendous. I like the Dreamcast version, but the DX release just makes me want to kill myself.

[Anonymous No.3325057]

>>3323260
>shits on SA1
>SA2 is pretty alright, though
>camera is even more broken and harder to fix
>bugs make getting emblems even more a pain in the ass
>Tails/Knuckles levels are chores and plain suck ass
You're not making any sense.

[Anonymous No.3325060]

i was never impressed by these even back when they were relevant. sonic should've never left 2d.

[Anonymous No.3325061]

>>3324206
>Hence Mario 64 is far less of a platforming game and more of a n adventure/exploration game with the emphasis on fulfilling mission criteria, rather than simply running a gauntlet from A to B.
The irony being that the Bowser levels, the only ones that are simply running a gauntlet from A to B, are much better than the star collecting nonsense.

[Anonymous No.3325068]

>>3323270
>Sonic 06 says hi
Hi sonic 06, we're talking about adventure right now, so your irrelevant
>Muh ports
Not retro
>Did you even play as the other characters?

God damn I sure do love mine detecting with knuckles across these here floating blobs of polygon, oh and who wants to go fishing with Big for the eighth time today. This time we'll be fishing in an average body water, just like the last seven times.

[Anonymous No.3325072]

>>3324148
Stay blissful, it's honestly better that way.

[Anonymous No.3326061]

>>3322347
G A M E F A Q S

A quality forum of quality opinions.

[Anonymous No.3326118]

>>3321978
No one has ever called the Adventure games masterpieces, and they aren't acclaimed. They're games that people have a fondness for that were impressive for their time.

[Anonymous No.3326134]

>>3324158
I agree.

[Anonymous No.3326282]

>>3321978
Sonic games tend to be badly designed, not necesarily "unfun". They have fun moments but every game ALLWAYS have something that makes it a pain in the ass

I think it is more fitting to say they are bad games with fun moments. The list of awful design choices would be like this

SA1
>Amy, Gamma, Big and Knuckles (To some extent) bringing up either the same Sonic gameplay style but slower, or just something different that nobody wanted

SA2
>Tails, Knuckles and Rouge wich somehow are worse than SA1. Again, not Sonic gameplay, just alternate gameplay gimmicks that nobody plays a Sonic game for

Even back in the day i was blinded by nostalgia. If i'm only enjoying what could be 30-40% of the game then it's a bad game and its design is awful

[Anonymous No.3326328]

>>3321978
>obejectively bad
>someones enjoyment of a game is subjective
Okay, with that out of the way.

I've played through SA1 probably 4 or 5 times on GC and once on DC earlier this year. The graphics suck ass in the DX ports and I mean that honestly, the new textures and general color palette of the game in DX is ridiculous.

Sonic's controls are AMAZING in SA1 and I will always say that. He has a really wonderful sense of weight, I love that you can get a bit of a boost by starting your run with a homing attack towards the ground. The acceleration, breaking, jumping, it all feels good. Hell even turning is on point as fuck in the DC version.

I legitamtely enjoy the other characters gameplay styles, even Big fishing is ezmode fun once you have lure powerups. Bouncing around with Amy's hammer is fun, Tails flying is fun in the really broken not-sure-what-they-intended way.

Probably the biggest flaw of the game is the overworld stuff, which sucks because I really like it but it always seems random and arbritrary when it's time for you to go somewhere else or pick up some thing. See countless SA1 playthroughs where right after a cutscene people ignore what they're shown and go poke around the interesting scenery.

Second biggest flaw might be level design. For a game with really good movement it seems like there's a lot of stages where that's not the focus.

It's also just a fucking weird decision to have Sonic in the 'real' world. I mean, it's surreal as shit and kinda fun. But I feel like Sonic Team (or someone else?) had some realistic city exploring thing going on for Dreamcast to try and impress people and plunked Sonic in there.

Also, you got to wonder how much money and time was spent developing the Chao stuff. I would just yank that stuff out if it meant a little more focus on gameplay and a few more unique levels for everyone.

The soundtrack is second to Sonic CD's original soundtrack imo. Which still makes it fucking good.

tl;dr nostalgia

[Anonymous No.3326497]

>>3324672
Why is the DX version worse? Wasn't there more to do?

[Anonymous No.3326507]

>>3322112
Growing up with a PS1 must have been tough

[Anonymous No.3326512]

>>3326497
It was way more glitchy, and didn't account for the looser sticks on the gamecube. Also, the new graphics look crap.

[Anonymous No.3326515]

>>3326512
Ah. I played the Gamecube version and thought it was shit. I'm sure the Dreamcast version isn't that different though.

[Anonymous No.3326516]

>>3326515
Actually, I played the PC version.

[Anonymous No.3326517]

>>3323270
The ports are based on the original jap release which had more bugs than the international release that came out in NA and Europe.

Listen, I like SA1 a lot but telling people to play the ports is stupid and hurting your argument. At least research wtf you want to talk about.

[Anonymous No.3326528]

>>3326497
Like I said here >>3326517
For some reason when Sega decided to make DX they used the original code from the 1998 Japanese release which was riddled with bugs, and had a much worse camera than the international release that came out in NA in 1999. DX deserved all the shit it got from critics at the time because Sega really fucking dropped the ball, despite all the extras.


Sonic Adventure 2 Battle though was way better than the DC release, not sure why it got so much hate.

[Anonymous No.3326908]

>>3326497
In the other SA1 thread on /vr/, I wrote a post that explains why:
>It's an insanely-shitty port of the Dreamcast release. Butchered controls, gimped physics, shitty graphics, and far more unpolished. It feels like absolute dogshit to even move around. Anyone who's only played the DX version shouldn't be allowed to say anything about the game as a whole.

[Anonymous No.3327290]

I was just playing the Dreamcast version of SA1, and when I finished Red Mountain, it took me to Sky Chase, even though I got through that section of the game ages ago. What the actual fuck.

[Anonymous No.3328456]

>>3327290
There are 2 Sky Chase stages.

[Anonymous No.3328457]

>>3326512
>the new graphics look crap
>DX Super Sonic

[Anonymous No.3328669]

>>3324135
Latest census put most of us at late 20s/early 30s IIRC.
I was 15 when Sonic Adventure came out. Liked it then, though I was old enough to see that it was doing a lot to appeal to a younger audience than me, still like it today.

[Anonymous No.3329068]

>>3321978
Quit acting like Generations was a godsend.

[Anonymous No.3329085]

>>3321985
>not Mario 64, fuck that piece of shit with non existant level design and platforming

Showing your age junior. How about I go get you some play doh to keep you entertained?

[Anonymous No.3329210]

>>3328456
I know. I finished Sonic's story a gorillion years ago, but a glitch occurred that made the stage appear again.

[Anonymous No.3329217]

>>3329085
He's probably an oldfag that prefers 2D Mario to 3D Mario's insipidly barren, large, poorly thought out maps.

[Anonymous No.3330531]

>>3323128
Good scores back then actually meant something though. A lot of people would have looked at a 7/10 and said you know what? This doesn't bother me. It's a good score and this game looks fun. I'm buying it.

I did this with tons of games back in the day. These days it's rare to see popular games get ratings like that. Games that get anything below an 8.5 basically become obscure on the internet. I mean shit it's actually more like if it isn't over a 9 it's the worst game in the world not worth playing.

A sonic game getting say a 7 back then would probably be around an 8.5 out of 10 these days.

[Anonymous No.3330664]

>>3322117
Better story and music? Shit son, troll harder.

[Anonymous No.3331404]

>>3321978

[Anonymous No.3331436]

>>3324024
You say the same thing about Zelda, except replace Sonic 06 with Skyward Sword and Sa1&2 with OoT and people try thier hardest to send you death theeats.

[Anonymous No.3331479]

>>3324135
>/vr/ is full of early 20s guys who were around 5 years old when Sonic Adventure came out.

dat projection

[Anonymous No.3331538]

>>3331479
>someone says something i don't like
>better yell projection

[Anonymous No.3331895]

>>3322347
Not him but I can find people on the internet saying a group of Nazis are still hiding out in the center of the Earth. Doesn't make it a widly held oppinion.

Sonic Adventure has never been seen as a masterpiece, a few autistic fanboys don't change that.

[Anonymous No.3334323]

I just have more fun with Sonic Adventure 1 and 2.

I don't think about the why, I just do.

Colors and Generations to a lesser degree bored me. Fucking autoplay because of the boost button.

[Anonymous No.3334327]

>>3321978
>Generations
>superior over Adventure and Adveture 2

Generations is a fine game for the first 3 levels. After that the game is just as uninspired as the games it was drawing from.