/vr/ - Retro Games

[Anonymous No.5365617]

The perfect game. And the perfect game to showcase what retro can do what modern can not.

[Anonymous No.5365634]

SOTN is better

[Anonymous No.5365650]

>>5365617
What does it do that's impossible to dp now?

[Anonymous No.5365748]

Willyvania games are still being created today, though?

[Anonymous No.5365760]

>>5365617
Having the skill based wall jump from the beginning causes the game to transcend being a game.

Perfect is a strong word but I have to agree OP

[Anonymous No.5365767]

>>5365617
this but System Shock 1

[Anonymous No.5365769]

>>5365760
>Having the skill based wall jump from the beginning causes the game to transcend being a game.

How does that make any sense at all?

[Anonymous No.5365805]

>>5365634
2N + 1, where N is a non-negative integer.

That's actually all I can do.

[Anonymous No.5365808]

>>5365769
It's a lifestyle

[Anonymous No.5365932]

*removes throne from super metroid*
heh.......

[Anonymous No.5365942]

>>5365932
Hollow Knight is boring as fuck, dude.

[Anonymous No.5365958]

>>5365942
not him but i found super metroid boring too. atleast during my second playthrough. i stopped playing after the first boss. i dont know why but its only interesting and fun when you're a kid playing it.

[Anonymous No.5366024]

>>5365932
Hollow Knight?
it's merely decent-good, absolutely not even close to the top.

[Anonymous No.5366031]

>making tier lists
Yikes

[Anonymous No.5366038]

>>5365808
That makes even less sense but whatever.

[Anonymous No.5366047]

>>5366024
Terraria is not a metroidvania and also seriously sucks by mid-game where enemies start completely ignoring walls and you have to deal with cobstant badly designed combat while trying to do anything. I didn't even glance at the others but safe to say the whole chart is bullshit on that alone.

La Mulana is solid though.

[Anonymous No.5366054]

what genre is kid icarus? if i had to guess i would say zeldroid, since its more like zelda than castlevania but has strong metroid elements, too bad it never really took off as an ip, i know they did a remake a couple years ago, but it never seemed to get much traction

[Anonymous No.5366058]

>>5366054
It's an adventure game which is properly what Metroid is as well. When you look at actual game design Metroid and Zelda are nearly identical aside from the theme and that one is top down and the other side-scrolling.

[Anonymous No.5366149]

>>5365617
Call me a pleb but, i played Zero Mission because i wanted to keep playing "metroidvanias" games after playing all the GBA Castlevania games, the game was kind of boring and after i killed Mother Brain i had to force myself to beat it, of course it was a remake of the original one so because i didn't want to hate the 2D Metroid games i gave Super a try and again i got bored very quickly, i could see why people love it but it wasn't for me. Love the Prime trilogy though.

[Anonymous No.5366191]

>>5365617
100% agree. I can generally find things about games that i think fell short or could be done better, but aside from small nitpicks, there's never anything that stands out to me in this game that i dislike. It executes everything it intended to do with near perfection and i haven't played another games thats done the same.

But thats just my opinion.

[Anonymous No.5366232]

its the best game in the genera, although the final boss could be harder, its not even the hardest boss in the game

[Anonymous No.5366235]

>>5365932
Hollow Knight is mediocre and you should be ashamed of your terrible taste

[Anonymous No.5366238]

>>5365932
The modern games to hold on the pedestal beside Super Metroid would be Axiom Verge.

[Anonymous No.5366250]

>>5366238
you're kidding me, right? That game looked so promising but it failed to deliver even half the experience i was hoping for.

[Anonymous No.5366254]

>>5366250
I don't know what you're expecting then, because it's a Metroid game to a T, with a little bit of Bionic Commando rolled in there as a bonus.

[Anonymous No.5366285]

>>5366254
It was a contra-esque metroidvania. I got the run and gun action i expected, but then it tried to shove an overly convoluted and confusing 'lolbigbrain' story down my throat while still failing to ever make me care about it or what i was doing. The movement was also static and aside from the weapon upgrades most of the powerups were underwhelming and uninteresting. I also didn't feel as free, it didnt feel linear, but i felt like there was much variety in ways to get around aside from the weird transport head thing.

i dunno, it just didnt do it for me. It lacked the same touch as Super Metroid.

[Anonymous No.5366298]

is the nes version of strider considered metroidvania

[Anonymous No.5366306]

>>5366298

[Anonymous No.5366309]

>>5366306
wait, what DOES it mean

[Anonymous No.5366313]

>>5366309
When Metroid and Castlevania love each other VERY much, they have a threesome with JetSet Willy and they never figured out who the child really belonged to.

[Anonymous No.5366314]

one thing that's good about /vr/ there seems to be no mention of "rogue-likes", every time i scroll the "new and trending" thing on steam its like at least half is low effort "rogue-likes" whatever the fuck that even means

[Anonymous No.5366328]

>>5366314
Rogue-likes mean games like Binding of Isaac where the maps are procedurally generated, the items you get are random, and progress is not saved so once you die you start over from scratch. So you'll have that one good run out of every 50 attempts where you actually make it to the 2nd or maybe even the 3rd level.

They're terrible and so has been the trend for the past decade where literally every other indie game has been one.

[Anonymous No.5366331]

>>5366328
do u suppose indie shops crank them out because being procedurally generated means taking no responsibility for good level design?

[Anonymous No.5366332]

>>5365617

What were they thinking!

[Anonymous No.5366362]

>>5365808

[Anonymous No.5366365]

>>5366285
I'm not really understanding complaining about story when the only story in Super Metroid was "go get thing." And while I agree the travel options in the game pretty much non-existent, once again that's no different at all from Super Metroid.

[Anonymous No.5366407]

>>5365958
I'm kind of in the same boat. Loved it as a kid, had an okay time replaying it in my teens, but now I only get a sense of tedious inevitability when playing the game.

[Anonymous No.5366414]

>>5366314
procedurally generated games unironically have less depth and replay value than non procedurally generated games

[Anonymous No.5366416]

>>5366414
wasn't diablo like that?

[Anonymous No.5366425]

>>5366416
yes

[Anonymous No.5366429]

>>5366365
I should elaborate on that, it felt like there were so many ways areas connected in Super Metroid, and it never felt like that to me in Axiom.

As for the story point, yeah, Super Metorid was straight forward. "Save the hatchling" and thats it. Thats all you need to hear and the rest of the adventure to do just that is experienced through gameplay.

AV tried to be deep as fuck but in the end it felt like it was trying way too hard to do so. I've been an amateur writer by hobby for about a decade and a half now and one of the most important things i've learned overtime is that a simple story can be a good story and that more often than not you should keep your complexity to a level that a 4th grader could understand. The story in AV feels like the kind of thing some fairly new nerdy fedora tipping 'im a writer that went to college, deal with it' try hard would write while trying to use the biggest words and overusing misdirection to the point where it just felt silly. And in the end i didn't care about whatever the fuck the objective of the game was supposed to be.

I'm getting a little long winded here, but it was distracting more than anything. Nothing distracts you in Super Metroid, you are never ripped from the gameplay to watch cutscenes that try to explain itself.

[Anonymous No.5366430]

>>5366238
Axiom Verge had awkward chokepoints and too many similar abilities (was the grappling hook ever needed like more than once?).

Also that fucking hacking weapon you only need to use once, but you don't actually know how it will interact with stuff so how are you expected to make the connection? Sheesh.

Story was good though. Would buy a sequel and decipher another alphabet.

[Anonymous No.5366445]

>>5366429
>it felt like there were so many ways areas connected in Super Metroid
They are all literally connected through long ass elevator rides... Well, except Brinstar/Miridia. One of the least inspiring map structures in my book (and all those identical looking vertical shafts, my god...).

[Anonymous No.5366478]

>>5366328
The point of roguelikes isn't to just brute force tries until you get lucky and win. It's to play and learn the game well enough that you can still pull out a win even when the randomness is fucking with you.

Usually your skill in a game isn't marked by how many times you've beat it overall, it's how many times you can beat it in a row. The top Nethack player in the world had a 36 game win streak for example.

They're deffinitely not a genre for everyone, but I'm glad they've been finally catching on over the last number of years and people experimenting with the genre as with BoI. Personally roguelikes are neck and neck with fighters as by far my favorite kinds of video games both old and new. Rogue was like crack to me when I was 12 and 13.

[Anonymous No.5366486]

>>5366416
Diablo was designed as a roguelike in real-time since traditionally being turn-based is a major factor and it essentially spawned a new genre out of it.

>>5366414
I couldn't pissibly disagree with this more.

[Anonymous No.5366491]

>>5366478
dude, that reminds me what were those games that you could play on bbs that were text based where you would like play a couple rounds every day, it was sort of like nobanagas ambition or whatever, but text only

[Anonymous No.5366507]

>>5366491
oh shit, tradewars! blast from the past man!

[Anonymous No.5366523]

>>5366414
Some of them maybe. Im not the biggest fan of roguelikes, but i'd be lying if i said i haven't enjoyed a few.

[Anonymous No.5366569]

>>5366486
Wasn't Diablo originally being designed as a turn-based game and only turned into a real-time one quite late into development, hence the same movement speed for most characters, essentially grid-based movement, etc?

[Anonymous No.5366574]

>>5365634
Holy shit how can you be this delusional lol

[Anonymous No.5366603]

>>5365634
SOTN isn't even the best Castlevania game in the metroidvania style.

[Anonymous No.5366637]

>>5365932
hollow knight is decent but come on dude

[Anonymous No.5366720]

I don't like the wall jumping.

[Anonymous No.5366727]

>>5365617
not only a perfect game, but a perfect game that motherfucking stomps the sega genesis.
that shit console doesnt have anything that's even close to super metroid. no wonder thesega died in the gutter in 2001.

[Anonymous No.5366740]

>>5366727
the only redeeming thing about genesis was the port of mortal kombat was exactly like the arcade just with worse graphics, unlike the snes which had all of the combos taken out which obviously rendered the game quite lame, the pc version of mortal kombat was close to the arcade but it was possible to juggle three times with kicks on some rare occasions mostly with raiden, so while it was quite playable and fun it was not quite accurate. everything else about the genesis sucked, at least comparatively

[Anonymous No.5366752]

>>5366569
I can't speak to that part but it certainly sounds plausible. I've personally barely played Diablo I only know about some aspects because it's roguelike adjacent.

[Anonymous No.5366804]

>>5366740
If the only Genesis game you played was fucking MK1 then you sorely missed out. MK2 is the only decent game in the series and it's better on SNES. I love the Genesis, but come on.

[Anonymous No.5366820]

>>5366804
t b h that was the only time i felt good to own a genesis, all my friends had snes and they were usually smug about it, but when mk1 came out for once i was like yes! of course i also had a decent 486 pc that mk1 worked fine on, and playing on a keyboard was closer to the arcade anyways with the numpad allowing the same layout as the arcade buttons

trying to think of other good genesis games, there were a few, but i have to say ecco the dolphin fucking sucked, i remember renting that and ghouls and ghosts one weekend, and we played ecco for like 10 minutes and then ended up playing ghouls and ghosts all fucking night and only got like half way since its hard asa bitch (inb4 hurr get skill i beat it on one life etc.)

[Anonymous No.5366821]

>>5365617
Games I consider perfect, or close to perfect:
Banjo-Kazooie, Yoshi's Island, Star Fox 64, DKC2, Turtles In Time, Sonic 3, Streets of Rage 2, Smash Melee, this is all subjective but I'm sure everyone else has other games they consider perfect.

[Anonymous No.5366832]

>>5366820
>>5366727
>>5366740
OBSESSED Console warrior.

[Anonymous No.5366846]

>>5366740
i strongly agree, all the genesis had going on was the best version of MK1. everything else was garbage, specially when compared to other consoles.

[Anonymous No.5366851]

>>5366846
samefag

[Anonymous No.5366859]

>>5366851
it's just the facts of life, kid. i had a genesis, i am well aware of how few good games it has. phantasy star is no substitute for final fantasy.

[Anonymous No.5366951]

>>5366859
yeah whatever zoomer

[Anonymous No.5366953]

>>Final fantasy
>>good
LMAO

[Anonymous No.5366996]

>>5366859
Lol jrpgs
No wonder you can't handle Genesis games.

[Anonymous No.5367005]

>>5366996
tell me the good games? probably be like five titles man, wow streets of rages, sonics, mortal kombat, there are just no titles that make feel like "gee im sure glad i have a genesis!" and not "that looks ok, i guess ill play it"

[Anonymous No.5367042]

>>5366024
Missing Ghost 1.0, which at least belongs in great tier.

[Anonymous No.5367043]

>>5367005
Shinobi III
Thunder Force V
Castlevania Bloodlines
Gunstar Heroes
Shining Force II

[Anonymous No.5367050]

>>5367043
Whoops I meant Thunder Force IV, phoneposting

[Anonymous No.5367089]

>>5365617
There's nothing this game did that a modern game couldn't do.

Which is why it's so damn frustrating that no game developers have studied the game, seen exactly why it works, and one-upped it. Some might have came close, but no game has ever managed to be quite as well designed as this game.

[Anonymous No.5367096]

>>5367043

ok fair enough, not sure why i never played at least castlevania, maybe it came out late in the cycle when i had already moved on

[Anonymous No.5367102]

>>5366430
I'll shit on Axiom Verge for many things, but I'll defend the Address Disrupter any day of the week. It gave the game some cool experimentation aspects, and you can use it to make some of the trickier enemy's AIs more predictable.

Unless you're talking about that password thing, in which case yeah it kinda sucks

[Anonymous No.5367261]

>>5367005
Not him and you don't give much indication of what games you do like but I think Genesis has an excellent library

Beyond Oasis
Ranger X
Comix Zone
Ecco 1 and 2
Gaiares
Ristar
Puyo Puyo

All excellent

[Anonymous No.5367269]

>>5365617
too easy

[Anonymous No.5367310]

>>5366054
>since its more like zelda
>It's an adventure game

Wait, what? I was always under the impression it was an action game or whatever.

[Anonymous No.5367332]

>>5366149
Zero Mission is such a shit remake. The original was known for its difficulty and obscurity, and then the "remake" just tells you exactly where you need to go and is far easier than Super even.

[Anonymous No.5367482]

>>5367332
Zero mission is an outstanding remake that completely defeats the original in every way. Just because the game points you in the right direction of where to go next doesn't take away all of the fun of exploring and discovery since the actual path you need to take is left to you to figure out. It's also more fun to actually explore because the movement isn't floaty as shit like in the NES original.
>it's too easy
...So play hard mode.

[Anonymous No.5367529]

You people are deluded. This game blows.

[Anonymous No.5367554]

>>5366232
Hot take: Ridley is the final boss, Tourian and mother brain are all part of an extended playable ending cutscene. It's more of a victory lap than a final challenge.

[Anonymous No.5367557]

>>5367332
It tells you where you need to go, doesn't mean you have to go there. You can beat Ridley before Kraid instead of following the following the narrative given to you, and possibly without ever getting the varia suit, wave beam, long beam, high jump, and maybe powergrip. I'll agree with a couple things on difficulty, ridley and kraid are probably too easy, but you know there are probably mods for that if hard mode isn't enough.

[Anonymous No.5367563]

>>5367529
Great post

[Anonymous No.5367736]

i enjoyed playing hollow knight up until the point where the last 10-15 hours of the game was 90% dedicated to backtracking and collecting things that were previously unreachable. the fast travel system in that game was lackluster. i probably won't play it again. super metroid is worth a spin every 3-5 years.

[Anonymous No.5367737]

i fucking hate 'collect all the things to progress the story further' mechanics. i'm an adult and have fucking shit to do, dont punish me for that >>5367736

[Anonymous No.5367773]

>>5365650
i like how this question was never answered

[Anonymous No.5367831]

>>5367332
It's one of the best remakes ever. Not even debatable. What's with all the trolls lately?

[Anonymous No.5367852]

>>5367773
Because based Gunpei can't direct a game from afterlife.

>>5367737

I fuckin hate that you appear to play Super Metroid for the story. Progressing through the map and the feeling of getting more and more powerful IS the game

[Anonymous No.5368140]

>>5366054
scotformer

[Anonymous No.5368142]

>>5367831
>What's with all the trolls lately?
They're not trolls. They're just autistic idiots who somehow genuinely believe Metroid 1 is a good game.

[Anonymous No.5368143]

>>5367852
>I fuckin hate that you appear to play Super Metroid for the story.
Uh... that guy was responding to a post about Hollow Knight, genius...

[Anonymous No.5368253]

>Thread got temporarily invaded by SNES vs. Sega war fags
This is why we can't have nice things on this board.

[Anonymous No.5368259]

>>5368253
>temporarily

[Anonymous No.5368379]

>>5367482
I agree that Zero mission was better than the original, but it WAS way too easy, even on 'hard' mode. (Id didnt help that the only way to make the final boss harder was to 100% the game. Who thought that was a good idea?) And in the end, it did feel like the 'point you where to go' feature was hand holding even if you didnt have to follow it to a t. If you had played the original a lot of the paths to get to the marked points were obvious. They changed some of the maps around, but the general locations were similar. I thought Fusion did a better job of the whole 'figure out how to get there' thing. more often than not they gave you path and then you got cockblocked along the way, though Fusion had its own issues, such as relying on shock value and scripted events that lose their touch after the first playthrough. When i found out that the SA-X appearances weren't random, the feeling of being hunted faded immediately.

In the end Super Metroid still feels the best, yeah i an speed through it now and the 'first time' feelings are long gone (thats what romhacks are for) but every time i play it i can still see and feel the things that make it great, the controls, the progression, the atmosphere, and constantly discovering new ways to approaching things or do things out of order without having to try very hard.

[Anonymous No.5368494]

>>5365634

[Anonymous No.5369007]

>>5365617
>The perfect game.

Yes.

But FUCK Maridia, though

[Anonymous No.5369010]

>>5365650
subpixel rendering. That's completely lost on modern hardware since it just doesn't render images the same way as crts.

[Anonymous No.5369030]

>>5365769
>>5365769
There s not many games that give you something you can do that s based on your skill.
It allows you to break the sequence of the game and makes it feel like an organic adventure.

[Anonymous No.5369173]

>>5365617
>slow screen transitions
>slow item fanfares
It's good by SNES standards, but it's not perfect.

[Anonymous No.5369203]

>>5368379
>the only way to make the final boss harder was to 100% the game.
Can you elaborate? I've played ZM but I've never heard of this.

[Anonymous No.5369207]

>>5366024
Generally agree except Rabi Ribi is way too far down, that's been one of my most enjoyable and rewarding gaming experiences of this past decade. I've played over half of those games.

[Anonymous No.5369221]

>>5366024
>Odallus
>metroidvania
What the fuck? It has linear stages like in a castlevania game

[Anonymous No.5369226]

>>5369203
if you get 100% items before the final boss, Metal Ridley has triple the offensive and defensive power.

https://metroid.fandom.com/wiki/Mecha_Ridley

[Anonymous No.5369265]

>>5369226
Do;esn;t make him all that much harder though, i could kill him before the opening riff of his battle theme finished by chust pumping super missiles into his chest without 100%, so i have to hit him with a few more? okay.

[Anonymous No.5369956]

>>5365634
yikes!

[Anonymous No.5369960]

>>5369030
I agree. So many Metroidvanias fuck it up by being deceptively linear, you get the item you're supposed to get and go to the place you're supposed to go.

[Anonymous No.5371618]

>>5366038
Make a walljump. You will get what he means.

[Anonymous No.5372078]

>>5371618
I've played SM and used the wall jump. I still have no clue what he was trying to say.

[Anonymous No.5372216]

>>5372078
>I've played SM and used the wall jump.
I doubt this.

>I still have no clue what he was trying to say.
The wall jump is an ability that you 'secretly' had all along. That's what makes it brilliant.

[Anonymous No.5372798]

>>5372216
I know what the wall jump is you fucking retard I've played that game multiple times. I'm trying to get to you to explain how that makes it "transcend being a game" so far you've just spewed gibberish.

[Anonymous No.5372806]

super metroid is a masterpiece.

how can sega widows even compete? theres nothing on sega shit thats even close to metroid.

[Anonymous No.5372813]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWBff3f6bUA&t=2544s

27 NMG is kinda cool

[Anonymous No.5372814]

>>5372798
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Wall jumps off the high ledge to enter Kraid's Hideout. I watched Shinesparks glitter in the dark over the Missile Lake. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

[Anonymous No.5372838]

>>5372814
So you really never had anything of value to say... Thanks

[Anonymous No.5373352]

>>5365617
I'm playing this game for the first time. I'm a 30yo bomber but i had a Genesis and never played a lot of snes classics. I can appreciate the design of this game and think it is brilliant but i don't find it very fun to play. in fact it's pretty tedious.

[Anonymous No.5374216]

>>5373352
You might like Zero Mission, then.

Or play the vanilla version of the "Project Base" romhack, which modernizes the physics but leaves everything else intact.

[Anonymous No.5374825]

>>5374216
>modernizes the physics
So it ruins the game? What a great hack.

[Anonymous No.5374841]

>>5365932
it's alright but it's actually nu-exploration, not real exploration like Super Metroid. Giving a false sense of enjoyment isn't the same as enjoyment.

[Anonymous No.5374862]

>>5374841
>nu-exploration, not real exploration
I'm curious what you mean by this.

[Anonymous No.5374904]

>>5374841
>false sense of enjoyment isn't the same as enjoyment.
Brilliant

[Anonymous No.5374906]

>>5367269
>he has not completed reverse boss order

[Anonymous No.5374915]

>talking about modern games on /vr/ like Hollow Knight
It's almost as if the only way zoomers know how to discuss retro gaming is only in relation to shit that came out just a few years ago. There is going to be no line between /vr/ and /v/ soon. We already have the same Link's Awakening shit flinging threads on /vr/ now. Not too much longer until twitter posts.

[Anonymous No.5374916]

>>5366024
I'd switch castle in darkness with rabi ribi, it's a good game but really short. Momodora would be even higher if it also wasn't so ridiculously short.
Is Bunny Must Die that good? I've been planning to try it

[Anonymous No.5374937]

>>5373352
Sega games tended to be a lot more action-arcade oriented, which isn't Metroid's focus. I like the series but I can see where you're coming from.

[Anonymous No.5375261]

>>5374916
yeah