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/vr/ - Retro Games

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File: 430 KB, 1920x1080, smb3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5692727 No.5692727 [Reply] [Original]

Do the levels get longer eventually? They're pathetically short.
Most aren't longer than a minute, many a lot less. There are levels in SMW that are longer than whole worlds here. Heck, even SMB1's levels are longer by far.
The design itself is great though, I really like how distinct the words are so far. I was also surprised to see many things they recycled in SMW later. Back when this was new I didn't own a NES, so I barely saw anything past world 1, unless I got lucky and got a flute. Still, I think SMW is much more fleshed out, this seems more like a prototype in comparison. I'm still enjoying it a lot.

>> No.5692812

>why can't they fit longer levels when the console has 40k of ROM space total
I wonder.

>> No.5692830

>>5692812
>when the console has 40k of ROM space
>the console
>ROM space

>> No.5692837

>>5692830
That's exactly it, silly. The NES can access 40k of ROM at a time. So SMB3 is 384k total and the console is able to "see" 40k of that at any given moment.

Fucking magnets, how do they work?

>> No.5692846
File: 205 KB, 1057x1600, MarioNoBg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5692846

>>5692727
Depends. Are in World 4 right now? World 5 has some longer levels, autoscrollers and the tower can be quite long, and later on the are stages that make you loop certain points. World 7 has some long ones as well as far as I can remember, but if you know what you are doing they are all fairly quick.

Play the game without power ups for a challenge

>> No.5692935
File: 421 KB, 1920x1080, smb3w5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5692935

>>5692846
Just got to W6. Yeah, the cave level in W5 was great, not just the length, also the way it was introduced and the way it looks.

>>5692812
What would stop them from bank-switching within a level? They probably do that already anyway.

>> No.5692946

>>5692935
Granted that's true but the bigger the game engine is, the shorter the levels you fit. Also the game has 90 levels and they had to fit it into 384k of ROM (SMW has 70 levels for comparison and 512k of ROM).

>> No.5692956

>>5692727
>Do the levels get longer eventually? They're pathetically short.
>Most aren't longer than a minute, many a lot less. There are levels in SMW that are longer than whole worlds here. Heck, even SMB1's levels are longer by far.
Ignoring the 16-bit game being compared to an 8-bit game, the levels might be shorter than SMB1, but there's far more of them to compensate. A good example of this is SMB1 can be speedrun warpless in 19 minutes, SMB3 warpless takes 50 minutes. The devs also took advantage of the shorter levels to make them harder towards the end of the game than what you would find in SMB1. SMB1 at it's worst has 2-3 bullet bills on the screen with a flying koopa, or a hammer brother and a flying koopa. And the dick kick that was the maze in the last level. SMB3 throws autoscrolling precision platforming at you, all while being under attack from multiple enemies. The game keeps throwing new mechanics and enemies at you all the way to the last world.

Also, the game had no save function. If you manage to blitz through every level in SMB3 in a minute without skipping any or having to redo any, it would take you about an hour and a half to beat the game. If each level took two minutes, it would take you three hours to play every level. Three minutes a level, and you are looking at a four and a half hour platformer with no save function. You'll find most games without a save feature are designed to be beaten by an experienced player in 2-3 hours or less. Even Metroid would reward players who beat the game in the "single sitting" timeframe.

>> No.5692962

A lot of people bitched about the lack of a save feature, but come on. The game was already almost $70 new and if they had a battery save you'd be pushing $100.

>> No.5692967

>>5692727
>They're pathetically short.

SM clearly is a franchise for casual plebeian normalfags. What did you expect?

>> No.5692970

>>5692846
This image nailed why I dislike post SNES Mario games. Mario looks retarded, whereas he looks much more badass in that artwork and in the NES/SNES games.

>> No.5693006

>>5692962
Nobody ever bitched about that back then. Most games didn't save, it was a novelty at the time.

>> No.5693096

>>5692935
>What would stop them from bank-switching within a level? They probably do that already anyway

FWIW SMB3 is an MMC3 game which means they can bank the ROM in little pieces.

>> No.5693209

>>5692837
You can bank arbitrarily small parts of that with custom mappers, so it's completely irrelevant to game size.

>> No.5693584

>>5692727
>There are levels in SMW that are longer than whole worlds here.
Your memory is false. SMW levels are every bit as short. Short levels are a Super Mario Bros. staple.

>> No.5695076
File: 177 KB, 1920x1080, smb3w8.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5695076

Got to World 8 now.
I must say I'm impressed with the creativity in this game. There were some really interesting levels throughout, involving puzzle solving and exploration, or just the way the level is set up.

It's also interesting to see how many things first appeared here and later got used in SMW and even SMW2. I think the ice block for example looks exactly like the one in SMW2, except it's not transparent. Or the slimy ghost platform thing.

Still, I think it would be better if the levels were longer. The way it is if often feels like you get a set of obstacles and that's it. Sure, it's creative and well designed, but I often think "Huh, that's it, here's the goal?". I guess it fits with the stage play theme, maybe they were going for that. Anyway, I would have preferred half the levels, but longer ones instead. Especially in the first half they're just way too short.

>>5693209
>>5693096
How fast is bank switching? Can you do it mid-frame to load new sprites/tiles/code? I know that the animated tiles are done in the mapper by switching tiles internally, but that's probably custom logic.

>>5692956
I'm not saying the game is short. There's a lot of stuff in there, no doubt. It's just that the individual levels are really short, especially in the first half.
I don't think comparing SMB3 and SMW is invalid because one is 8-bit and the other is 16-bit. There is nothing about it being 8-bit that would prevent larger levels. Look at Kirby's Adventure. It's levels are huge in comparison. Admitedy, it came years later, even after SMW and had a whopping 1MB ROM I think.

>>5693584
That's not true. Sure, there are short levels in SMW too, but on average they're way longer. A few of them are pretty huge in comparison.

>> No.5695087

>>5695076
I found that 3's levels often expected you to 'explore' and find secrets and tidbits. Their general admitted shortness is somewhat offset by the addition of flying and the prominence of pipes.

I can agree that worlds one and two feel absurdly shorter than most Mario content I can think of. Still, 3 is great fun and I love playing it.

>> No.5695145

>>5695076
>Can you do it mid-frame to load new sprites/tiles/code?
You certainly can. For example, Pirates! does it to display dialog boxes.

>> No.5696041

>>5692956
high iq post

>> No.5696093

>>5695076
>Look at Kirby's Adventure. It's levels are huge in comparison. Admitedy, it came years later, even after SMW and had a whopping 1MB ROM I think.
Kirby is 768k. Metal Slader Glory is the only larger NES/Famicom game.

>> No.5696194

>>5692956
>SMB1 can be speedrun warpless in 19 minutes, SMB3 warpless takes 50 minutes
But SMB3 is padded with boring autoscrollers.

>> No.5696209

>>5693096
MMC3 makes NES programming a relative breeze because of the small granularity of the banking (8k PRG, 1k CHR) and built-in IRQ counter for split scrolling.

>> No.5696279

>>5695076
>but on average they're way longer. A few of them are pretty huge in comparison.
I'm positive this isn't true. I remember feeling that every level was quite short at the end of my recent SMW playthrough, repeating level puzzles excluded. I could accept perhaps that SMB's levels might be on average shorter but definately not by much.

>> No.5696547

>>5692727
>here are levels in SMW that are longer than whole worlds here.
yeah but levels in SMW are pretty bland and flat, you can beat pretty much most of them by holding right and occasionally jumping over enemies with zero thinking, wheres in SMB3 you have to be more careful, there are tons of secrets hidden and the levels are overall a lot harder too. In SMW there are only couple ghost houses and castles where you cant just hold right the whole time, and only one level thats considered to be very hard. Also cape makes it piss easy to cheese through levels, and Yoshi makes the game even easier as you are literally invincible when using him, and its hard to not lose him.

Another thing is that SMB3 has no midway points, unlike smb1, 2 or world.