/vt/ - Virtual Youtubers

>>6335711
Japan is moving away from speaking Japanese. They use more and more english loan words every year. In 10 years, their language will be more English than Japanese. In 20, Japanese will be a completely dead language.

>>6335711
Even the Japanese need to their reps

Kanji were a mistake

>>6335711
https://youtu.be/pW4AiEqKGto

>>6335760
add a 0 to those numbers and I'll believe it

>>6335760
it wont be completely dead but they'll all sound like weebs

>>6335711
Kanji was never a great element of their language. It's probably one of the most ineffective and inefficient idea ever for writing system. Just think of this, even with Kanji you still need to add extra letters to make it clear. For example 出し,出て, etc. At that point you may as well learn Chinese. Luckily, nowadays people are starting to gradually abolish the usage of Kanji by using Hiragana more frequently instead.

>>6335807
You'd be surprised how much globalization and technology will accelerate that process.

Japanese are slowly moving away from it due to young people and loan words.

About time, South Korea has been doing the same for their hanja for decades now.

>>6335760
Isn't that like most languages nowadays? Probably excluding Spanish.

>>6335711
They don't know how to write their own language anymore because their computers automatically put in the kanji for them now. Japanese people are still learning how to write words right into high school, it's absurd.

>>6335837
Most of the girls skip right past hiragana and simply type in romanji in minecraft.

>>6335760
So, they're finally integrating in the SEA culture.
Indonesia is 40% english, 30%made up pseudo english and the rest whatever regional indonesian you have.

>>6335842
globalization and technology are not new concepts in your lifetime, and have been well in effect since the late 1800s

>>6335923
It's a bad time for people to be adopting English though. The vocabulary of the average English speaker these days is awful.

>>6335711

>>6335760
eopdogs actually belive this

>>6335837
A relatively small and young population of the Chinese is also starting to forget hieroglyphics. Phones and keyboard typing make is easy to just remember how the word is pronounced and let the automatic suggestion system do the rest.

>>6335837
This only happens with very common and distinct sounding words, 可愛い for example.
However, I highly doubt this will be fully implemented in this lifetime.
Also reading Kana only is very tiresome and inefficient, similar to reading Latin character texts without spaces and upper case only.

https://youtu.be/pW4AiEqKGto

Fitting for the thread.

>>6335952
Acceleration means to increase in speed. That means the rate goes up. In the late 1800s, it was a slow process, but as technology got better, the process got faster, and as technology continues to get better, the process will continue to get faster.

>>6335870
French isn't, but only because the government is actively working to avoid anglicization.
Guess they still hold a few grudges from history.

>>6335964
English vocabulary has always been awful.
It's 12 languages masquerading as 1; 4 of those being fucking FRENCH.
Unlike most main languages of the world it never had that period in the 1800s when scollars came togheter to standardize it and it kept diverging into different forms.
Hell TV has been the only standardizing tool for English, since the vocabulary and pronunciation was way worse in the 1800s and early 1900s throughout America, but people started talking like they heard in movies and on TV.
Thank you for coming to my rant.

>>6335867
>South Korea has been doing the same for their hanja for decades now
This is funny because hangul was invented in the 1500's and officially replaced hanja around the 1800's

>>6335711
>Kanji writing was too time-consuming. The hiragana and katakana syllabaries were developed as solutions to these problems.

https://www.futurelearn.com/info/courses/japanese-rare-books-culture/0/steps/17238

I dunno, if your writing system needs 2 or more simpler writing systems be developed to make it usable, then it might be time to abandon it.

>>6336137
Read a book written in the 19th Century and you'll see how dumbed down modern english is.

dude just use kana

>>6336260
>compares english speaking to written, published literature
Might want to reform your argument there. Written language, meant for professional publication will always be several levels more sophisticated than oral dialect.

>>6335711
clip?

>>6336151
Late 1800's after which the Japanese came so it's only really been a relatively short time.

Hangul wasn't popular from the start because the scholars essentially wanted to keep their jobs. Hangul was so easy to learn that they wanted to keep the commoners illiterate.

>>6335878
Well it isn't like English. You have to go by stroke order don't you?

>>6336260
19th century is Modern English. Any non-retard non-ESL can read Dorian Gray or Austen or whatever, and it's not particularly different from early Joyce or Pynchon or McCarthy or even authors publishing in the last decade like George Saunders
Also like the other anon said comparing artistic/academic writing to everyday speech is retarded.

>>6335711
because the kanji system fucking sucks

Logograms are absolutely retarded idea.

>>6336047
You will never be Japanese

>>6336410
Marine's stream right now
Korone's Hero is a Massive Scumbag stream

>>6335711
There's something seriously wrong with a writing system when adults have trouble reading their own language

>>6336260
Languages that remain in popular use don't get dumbed down, they only evolve to better meet the needs and conditions of the people using them. English being more simplified these days is just a consequence of being the lingua franca. People use simpler and more clear words to communicate when they can't assume the person they're talking to is a pompous 16th-century aristocrat with a large vocabulary of useless niche words. In all likelihood the person they're talking to is an ESL or from the working class so the vernacular of the common folk has become dominant to facilitate the most efficient communication with 99% of the people who use English in their day-to-day lives. This has also resulted in English adopting more and more loanwords from other languages like Spanish because of the increased cultural influence of Spanish speakers over English-speaking society.

The same can be said of Japanese, kanji is falling out of use because the advent of cellphones and computers has made it increasingly cumbersome to use kanji when kana is faster to type and gets the point across just fine. Especially young people see no need for overly flowery kanji to make themselves sound pretentious when it just confuses the reader. Just use kana and you don't need to whip out a kanji dictionary every couple days due to some random blogger using an obscure kanji from 300 years ago that nobody has ever used since just to jerk themselves off.

>>6335711
Every writing system has pros and cons. A con of logographic writing systems is that they really don't work well with computers. With computers and tech becoming the primary way people live their lives all languages that use logographic systems are probably going to switch to something that works better.

>>6335711
When Matsuri played Danganronpa, she often had to pause to figure out what meaning the kanji she was reading had

>>6336986
The point about ease of understanding is good and all but I cant agree with the notion of overly niche and useless words. Nuance in language and expression largely comes from the subtle but important difference similar words have that ultimately changes the meaning of what is said. Words also have different meaning depending on context and, to be honest, it would be really tiresome to speak in a language where every five words there is a repeat because the language does not have enough word diversity.
Overly cumbersome language should be avoided but a vocabulary needs to be large enough to let people choose their own manner of expression rather than constrain them to simple general terms.

I remember Korone having to google kanji before, issue that comes to mind when replacing kanji is whenever people have to re-learn and drop old habits which may prove difficult.

>>6335760
This is the biggest cope by people who are too lazy to learn Japanese. Don't worry anon, just wait 10 years and you won't have to learn it. Also, everyone under 20 speaks fluent English in Japan.

>>6337555
Eh, the current English language isn't really losing words, just trading outdated pretentious ones for more culturally relevant ones that piss off boomers. That's how all languages evolve over time anyway. Hell the word "boomer" itself has become a catch-all word for out of touch old people in the last like 15 years, which is cool since it triggers the fuck out of them. Oh, the word "trigger" is also something that took on an entirely new meaning in the last 10 years or so and has exploded in popularity. Stuff like that isn't exactly dumbing down the language, it's just giving it more cultural relevancy.

>>6337778
>Eh, the current English language isn't really losing words, just trading outdated pretentious ones for more culturally relevant ones that piss off boomers
Uh huh. You're cancer.

>>6337670
>Also, everyone under 20 speaks fluent English in Japan.
I took your post seriously until this part.

>>6337849
Stay mad grandpa, your grandparents thought the way you speak was dumb as shit too.

>>6336083
Funny because in Flipland this is already the current situation.

Oh you know english? Name every word.

>>6335964
Anyone familiar with standardisation efforts will tell you that the most widely adopted one is the shittest one with the most idiosyncracies, precisely because it picked up everyone's conflicting ideas. That's the history of English

>>6337982
I was being sarcastic, so I'm not sure what you mean.

>>6338178
And to think that not so long ago they had a buoyant avantgarde Spanish literature. And now they babble something similar to English.

>>6335711
cuz it's hard. even china where kanjis were borrowed from dumbed it down with a simplified system.

>>6335711
Because kanji are shit to start with and the many possible readings make them even worse.

Is it possible to completely rework the Japanese writing system anyway? From what I read, kanji is hard and inefficient but still necessary.

Kanji is dumb and chinked.

>>6336357
IHAVENOIDEAWHATYOURETALKINGABOUTBROTHERESABSOLUTELYNOTHINGWRONGWITHJUSTUSINGKANAITSCOMPLETELYLEGIBLEANDUNDERSTANDABLEANDISABSOLUTELYPERFECTLYEASYTOREADANDUNDERSTAND

>>6338761
Teach them Esparanto

>be pic related
>high school drop out
>only leave home when buying snacks
>simp pays you to play vidya 24/7
i fucking hate women so god damn much bros..

>>6339108
go back to the homostar thread fag

>>6339108
Stay mad baby bitch

>>6338761
Yes it's still necessary, since it's really lengthy to write in Katakana, but the problem is they have 4000 Kanji and most of them are bullshit.
They took roots from some words, added strokes from others and said it has a completely different pronunciation from any of them.
People made too much shit up and all that needs to go.
Rework Kanji to an actual consistent writing system with just syllables that mean what they say.

>>6339108
but that's the ideal woman.

>>6339108
Doesn't even need to maintain her appearance like 3DPG streamers either

>>6338761
Definitely. They could literally use the Latin alphabet and it would be fine. People argue that kanji is useful because 1. It helps seperate things in a language where spaces don't exist and 2. Because there are so many similar sounding words in Japanese that it would get too confusing without them.
Both are bullshit, because again, the latin alphabet will let them seperate their words just fine. Just look at any JP minecraft stream and they can flawlessly communicate using an alphabet. As for the similar sounding words, it's a non-issue. People fluent in Japanese know what each of the sounds mean and can understand it without without an issue, especially in context. Japanese is not spoken in kanji, so you aren't going to get japs confused as fuck when speaking to another person just because there's no magical floating kanji telling them what each of these same sounding words mean. They just fucking know. The same can be applied with written language.

>>6338978
>>6336079
>Also reading Kana only is very tiresome and inefficient
Well its a good thing they have both kana and hirgana, they could also add spaces like some SEA languages have done.

>>6335837
While I agree that kanji is a garbage system, the example you provide is completely off. Those extra characters(okurigana) are used to provide grammatical context to the words/kanjis, and Chinese gets around this by not having a complex grammar. They are an artifact of Japanese as a language and make complete sense, for otherwise you would need a unique kanji for every unique variation on the word.

>>6338761
there's really no need to go to that kind of trouble in the age of global communications. much of kanji already exist in a prestige or specialist role anyways. its current emphasis in education is largely one of tradition and pride.

>>6339320

>>6339479
This does not solve every problem. The language has limited number of sounds compared to, say, English. Notice how you can reproduce every Japanese word accurately in English, but Japanese isn't able to reproduce English words. This makes it easier to learn, but it also means that you have a more limited total number of words per sound. As a result, it can be very hard to understand big globs of kana. There are actually examples of what you suggested in video games like Pokemon, or more recently Undertale. Usually old games or games targeted at children. They use almost exclusively kana and add generous spacing to make it easier to read. They are still far more cumbersome to people already fluent in the language. While this is a common meme, I think the best solution would be adopting Hangul as their writing system, but I doubt that would ever happen.

>>6339108
I mean, there's no shortage of male streamers who live off streaming money either. If you want to make money from streaming, put in the fucking effort. Also, Nijisanji is doing male EN auditions right now.

Embarrassing EOPs ITT

>>6335711
Are there people that know the meaning and pronunciation of every word in English?

>>6340293
I've seen vtubers stream Pokemon before and the kana-only text makes my head hurt. It's just so much slower and more inefficient to read than kanji.

>>6340672
In English you can at least make an effort to say it, chances are people will understand what word you're trying to say. With kanji you either know it or you don't.

>>6340293
>I think the best solution would be adopting Hangul as their writing system

>>6335760
Absolutely retarded
>>6335711
Yes, because Kanji sucks shit even if you use it every day. There are so many exceptions to the rules, it's fair to say that there are no rules.

>>6335952
Remember that Japan was isolationist up until WW2, and even to a degree still are. They haven't fully intergrated globalization mostly due to their lack of common sensibilities hampered by their 'sense of honor'.
There was a video on Japan's English that pointed out that English Teacher's in Japan basically have 3 years to try and teach kids English before they have to fuck off to another school to avoid gaining senority and having power over other newer teachers Which resets their pay btw leaving their students at a loss what to do next because the next English teacher won't know where the students were.

>>6336137
Legislation != Good. Prescriptive language reforms and "better English conlangs" suck. Across the board, universally. Always have always will. Every single one of your "standardized language" has shit they can't do, and to fix it they always borrow from another language that does because their legislative bodies are run by old fucks 200 years behind. The only difference between that and English is that we put it in our dictionaries while they have to pretend it doesn't exist when asked.

>>6336357
>>6340293
Can't we just add furigana to everything and call it a day?

>>6335711
Take your meds.

Kanji isn't going away any time soon. EOPs completely misunderstand how important kanji is to the Japanese language. For many words the kanji is the root of the word and not the other way around, without kanji you lose the entire meaning of the word itself.

That said I could see plenty of simplification going on in the upcoming decades, theres lots of overlapping and similar kanji used to describe the same word with literary nuance, which while is a useful and interesting concept, is something often ignored or forgotten about and kids are usually taught a simplified form until later. I could see the more advanced use of kanji being forgotten in the nearish future. But kanji itself isn't going anywhere.

>>6342368
We get it, you hate France.

>>6335760
that and mass migration speeding things up
>BUT JAPAN ISN'T LETTING IN-
SOON™

>>6339479
>both kana and hirgana

>>6335760
YWNBJ

>>6342897
Japan is 30 years behind Europe on the immigration train. They're still on the same
>Well if they want to come here and work for a few years before going home it's good for economy
lies that died out here in the 90s to be replaced by "they have just as much right to be here, we've always been multicultural" as it became increasingly obvious the "going back home after working" part wasn't happening.

>>6335867
South Korea also kinda got fucked when they transfered to hanja and there were tons of occasions where because of the lack of kanji they lost nuance to words and in many legal or procurement documents things got fucked up.

>>6342835
but won't that oversimplification process also come at the cost of their word play?
I think it would hurt them in the long run because the kanji actually gives you the opportunity to be creative in a literary sense.

>>6338761
Literally just implement spaces. That's it. Kanji are only necessary because Japanese doesn't have spaces, so Kanji is used to signal the start of a new word and the end of a previous where needed. If you implemented spaces, Japanese wouldn't need Kanji.

>EOPs forever seething about kanji
Once you learn it its pretty cool bros, and its faster to understand meaning.
For example, you don't need to understand how to read 初見 to understand what it says, if you see it you know what it means instantly. but saying しょけん could mean a ton of things. And the roots of the word are completely lost, so coming across the word in the wild you would have no idea what it means.

Think of kanji as latin root words, except they're something everyone already knows.

>>6339368
>Japanese is not spoken in kanji, so you aren't going to get japs confused as fuck when speaking to another person just because there's no magical floating kanji telling them what each of these same sounding words mean. They just fucking know. The same can be applied with written language.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_pitch_accent

>>6339368
>People fluent in Japanese know what each of the sounds mean and can understand it without without an issue, especially in context.
people literally say out loud what kanji they're using when there's confusion. its how people describe their own names.
in real life too you can just ask if you're confused, in a book context might save you but it means you have to read the full context. on a sign or vending machine with limited 'context' you'd be fucked.

>>6343143
The dirty secret is that Europe NEEDS immigration. Our birth rates are so far below replacement level that we are looking at a major collapse in the next few decades.

>>6343621
>out of order
I literally cannot tell what usage of the word "order" they are using, the vending machine provides such limited context, it could be any of the 12 meanings.

>>6343621
how do people say out loud kanji?

>>6343843
There's shit on the side of a vending machine beside the cave man speak you're literally required to understand to push a button.
And signs or ads are more important.
>>6343852
>written with the kanji for X

>>6343143
It won't end in the same way. Japan doesn't even need immigration. Their population is on average smart enough, they have plenty of skilled workers. An abundance of doctors and physicians, their food culture is extremely stable, some of the top restaurants in the world, a reliable manufacturing industry. A lack of government benefits for non-natives and a language that isn't a lingua-franca (part of the reason why places like the US, UK, Canada are so desirable and easy to settle in) is what causes immigrants to fuck off after about 2-3 years of living there.

>>6343311
I would compare them to traffic and safety signs. People generally understand most of them but obscure ones can be difficult to understand.
The great thing about kanji is how little space they take.

>>6342835
Japs understand each other when they speak, they don't have to draw kanji in the air to communicate.

>>6343958
It won't end in the same way. Germany doesn't even need immigration. Their population is on average smart enough, they have plenty of skilled workers. An abundance of doctors and physicians, their food culture is extremely stable, a reliable manufacturing industry. A lack of government benefits for non-natives and a language that isn't a lingua-franca (part of the reason why places like the US, UK, Canada are so desirable and easy to settle in) is what causes immigrants to fuck off after about 2-3 years of living there.

>>6343958
To be fair, Japan isn't just inconvenient for foreigners, its straight out hostile to them in many ways.
Citizenship is a pain in the ass to get, as is any visas to stay for work. There's places that can straight out refuse to serve you. Even if they do serve you they'll assume you're retarded.
You're not even allowed to rent most apartments or houses because they only sell to natives.

>>6343527
Dogen sama I do not kneel

>>6343527
I genuinely cannot understand the concept of pitch

>>6343188
To an extent, but that's just how languages go, they get dumbed down. It would be unfortunate to lose, and it loses some nuance, but I think that's an inevitability. Kanji won't disappear, but they really don't need 5 different forms of wakaru when everyone just uses the main one.
>>6344017
They also go out of their way to specify words in those cases. And just because you can speak it doesn't mean that's the end all be all of the language, there's plenty of things that can only be conveyed properly in written form even in english.

>>6343838
The hypercapitalist model isn't sustainable.
Infinite somalis is a bandaid at best, and that's being VERY generous. Incentivizing our own would go much farther than relying on a borderless favela of scab labor.

>>6344218
Read (I read a book)
Read (I will read this book)

>>6344047
>A lack of government benefits for non-natives
Your argument lost there. Turks swarm to Germany because they are given anything they want by the government. They are also very likely to learn German or already know before they move over there.

>>6343930
>written with the kanji for X

I don't see how that help?

>say X
>get asked which X
>written with the kanji for X

And even if saying "written with the kanji for Y" then why not say Y to start with?
Granted, I might be retarded here, but could you provide some examples?

>>6343838
no it doesn't
the issue is that governments give incentives to breed to non-natives at the expense of natives

>>6344321
Because kanji compound you fucking brainlet. At least try to learn japanese for more than 10 seconds.

>>6344294
I don't get it
they're read the same

Fuck off /pol/niggers.>>6344347

>>6343188
Japanese wordplay sucks cock. Some of it is funny, like 韓国/姦国(Korea/Rape Country), but most of it is entirely unreadable and requires some cringe faggot to explain their joke to you. Classic example is Ina's name: 一伊那尓栖 -> にのまえ・いなにす -> 二の前・いなにす -> 一・いなにす. If you don't speak Japanese, her name is spelled with the Kanji for one, but her name is pronounced "the thing before two". This is the kinda wordplay you get from an actual schizo, and it's fucked up that it's normalized there.

>>6344218
Thing of it as word stress in English:

>I am conTENT with streams this chuuba puts out.
>I hate the CONtent this chuuba puts out

>Do not proJECT your insicurities onto me
>Do not give up on your PROject

>>6344218
That's probably because you only know English. It's more common for languages to have the concept of pitch than not.

>>6343181
None of this ever happened anon. There are no examples the loss of Hanji screwing over any old documents. I can't even imagine how that would happen, considering that 1. there are still Korean people today who can read Hanja and 2. There are literal millions of people who can read hanja across the border in China. Some words did lose secondary meaning due to the dropping of their association of the Chinese characters they were linked to, but the meanings were so incredibly similar that you weren't losing much. like "Oh no, the word for Octopus lost its association with book chapters, what are we gonna fucking do? our culture is dying!!"

>>6343311
I'm not disagreeing with you that Kanji is cool, and as some one who speaks Chinese it makes reading faster. HOWEVER there's no ignoring the fact that they only exist because the Japanese couldn't work out how to space out their words, that not only doesn't add anything to the language, but often makes the language more difficult to makes sense of even to natives. In what other language do you have to clarify "oh no I meant this character, not this character, when I said that word" when speaking to each other in person.

>>6344522
Its pretty funny.
Someone sounds upset he can't understand basic word play.

>>6344522
>Ina's name: 一伊那尓栖 -> にのまえ・いなにす -> 二の前・いなにす -> 一・いなにす. If you don't speak Japanese, her name is spelled with the Kanji for one, but her name is pronounced "the thing before two".
That's pretty funny.

>>6344294
This is just irregular bullshit english pronunciation

>>6344570
Korea did get fucked when they switched because nuance was lost, a lot of construction and engineering projects got fucked because the understanding between the wordings got lost due to the change.

of course you 'can' make it work, but they could also just all lose english and drop their language as a whole. but why do that? the language works fine as is.

>>6335760

This reeks of weebs who never once stepped foot in Japan. For a country that has standard English speaking courses throughout a students lifetime, the entire country speaks dog shit english — young people included.

You really need to be a special kind of retard to think that English is spoken well there or getting better.

>>6344570
but isn't kanji necessary because there are too many homophones in japanese and context is not always enough?

>>6344396
The first one is past tense not present tense.

>>6344775
this guy gets it
>doing anki reps
>reviewing cards
>forget reading for a kanji
>"I bet it's shuu/juu or ko/kou"
>get it right half the time

>>6344692
examples

>>6344572
No one could understand it without an explanation you dumb fuck. If you saw her name written out you would never be able to guess the pronunciation without someone telling you. That's beyond retarded, and far too common in Japanese.

>>6344790
bamboozled hard

>>6344852
I mean is it really that different from something like Hugh Jazz or Mike Hawk

>>6344852
I got the joke, it was funny.
You're just a dumb baka.

>>6344852
Ok Mori.

>>6344692
Examples. I've been searching for what you were referring to and found no such examples and find it difficult to believe such a thing even exists, especially considering that in Korea many people could still read a decent amount of Hanja up into the 1800's

>>6344906
Yes? Neither of those names contain any unusual pronunciations or spells, and the joke is a simple pun. Better example would be if I spelled my name with the bear emoji and insisted that my name was beast boy.

>>6345028
I'm too lazy to search it up, but recall seeing an article about it a few years ago when I was bitching about kanji online. There was a few things where the type of material people were ordering got fucked because of it, and so on.

Though my quick google there were plenty of people talking about how modern Koreans literally can't read historical documents so they just started bullshitting their own history.

>>6335711
japanese is a shit language and every moment i spend trying to learn it i grow to hate it more and more

>>6344721
Wasn't at all what was said, their *language* is absorbing english katakana words more and more. That doesn't imply they can string an English sentence together, just that younger generations use English loanwords more and more and will continue to do so until Japanese sounds more like a creole

>"japanese will get replaced completely by english loanwoards in a decade"
>"why yes I do watch dogen, the guy that makes a living teaching perfect japanese to people"

>>6343958
They gotta start fucking a whole lot more then, considering their economy will collapse under demographics without immigration or kids

>>6345442
dogen is a hack fraud desu, i hate that he gets shilled so much.
he's has some funny humor, but he's just a typical angry weeb.

i actually enjoyed cure dolly's video where she just spent like 10 minutes just shitting on him for his retarded takes. but its something you can pick up from his own videos
>uh yeah so my japanese fell behind all my peers
>I didn't know like any of the vocab they knew at all and couldn't read the same content
>b-but at least people thought I sounded japanese!
you're fucking white faggot, nobody is ever going to think you're japanese.

>>6345454
you ARE learning JP to move to Japan and meet and fuck your oshi right anon? do your part

>>6345350
The post literally said Japanese will cease to exist, idiot.

>>6336103
French institutions fight anglicization but the common french person doesn't give a shit and uses English loan words all the time.

>Finally, when you take your car to pick up your takeaway because the restaurants are closed, do not say “drive”, which isle verbe anglaisbut “point de retrait automobile” or more concisely “point de retrait”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/13/le-la-covid-coronavirus-acronym-feminine-academie-francaise-france

LMAO just substitute kanas for the latin alphabet

>>6345454
Or, increased automation can continue to increase productivity, as it has done for 300 years now.

>>6336947
As an ESL I think English is fucked up too. You can only guess how to read a word you never seen before. Almost like kanji. At least reading kana is consistent (well, there are some exceptions, but it's very easy overall).

>>6344218
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb7DRvot9Uc

>>6335711
wasei eigo taking over
pls andastand

>>6346007
If I made up a word, like "dax" you could come up with a handful of ways to pronounce it. You may not be perfect the first try but at least you can make an attempt. If I made up my own kanji you would not be able to do the same.

>>6346007
english and japanese have the same issue of not being 100% sure on how to read a word you've never seen before but at least english doesn't have the bullshit of hundreds of characters on top of it

>>6344522
i think it's beautiful and actually gives you a sense of brilliance because of the cleverness being employed into this level of word play.
and maybe this very aspect actually factors into why japs can have some of the most dangerous schizos irl.
and maybe this is actually why they want to dumb things down, to lessen the severity of the schizoness

>>6344906
Mike Hawk?
who's that?

>>6346380
Cousin of Mike Hunt.

>>6346007
>>6346303
Hey at least english doesn't tend to have half/most of the letters in a word being pronounced in a completely counter-intuitive way or not at all like in our baguettespeak

>>6335870
No we do have english loanwords but they're for very specific things, like corporate talk. In the common usage there's very few loan words, namely "delivery", "liquid paper" (yes, that thingy for correcting pen writing that you haven't used in the past 10 years), a few technology related terms, but that's it. Also the common person doesn't really know english.
Speaking about Argentina btw, no fucking idea about other hispanic countries.

>>6343838
>we are looking at a major collapse in the next few decades.
Good

>>6343838
>we NEED unprecedented and unlimited population growth to keep going on forever, we CANNOT have a stable population size like we did for 99% of history
Why?
>...it just DOES, OK?!?

>>6343838
Or we could just stop pretending that infinite growth is attainable and desirable

>>6340979
Well we can tell you definitely don't know kanji.

>>6346464
>baguettespeak
ikr
>Un ver vert verse un verre vers un verrier vers vingt heure

>>6344906
You can tell those pronunciations on sight because they follow common pronunciation rules. If you get it wrong it's easy for someone to correct. You can also easily look it up with a keyboard.

Let's say you see kanji on a poster or in a book. Can't copy and paste it into Google. Don't know how it's pronounced. Don't have a kanji keyboard. Yoy're fucked. Is it in English? Just tap the letters on the keyboard and voila you now know the word. This is also the strength of hangul over moon runes.

>>6346614
Yeah because I too would like to go back to living in caves and ploughing the fields by hand

So how does this thread relate to vtubers again?

rarely happens. "you don't need to learn kanji" is just a cope for lazy learners.

>>6346765
this but unironically

>>6346614
>we CANNOT have a stable population size like we did for 99% of history
Yes, I, too, wish for a 60% infant mortality rate and an average lifespan of 30 years to make a triumphant comeback.

>>6346814
If we shitpost enough about the uselessness of kanji Japan will for sure go through a linguistic revolution and start speaking English so all the vtubers will have to make content in a language I can finally understand

>>6346899
It would be less effort to just learn Japanese

>>6346899
Just watch English vtubers bro

>>6346918
But Japanese will be a dead language in X years so we shouldn't waste our time learning it.

>>6346960
I'm just summarizing what the people that hate the Japanese language are actually saying.

>>6335711
Over reliance on digital devices

>>6335711
Because kanji is retarded, and most japs are only starting to realize how much it fucks with reading comprehension acquisition in their children (or at least the ones they do actually have).

>>6347043
Then stop and go outside. You're not contributing to the thread in any way.

>>6346696
>we
Also, don't throw the "radicals give a hint" bullshit at me. They will give a hint towards what the meaning of a kanji could be. But it still won't outright tell you what the entire Kanji actually means. You have to learn that, so if you don't know what it means you can't attempt to say it.

Kanji whip ass and I wish listening came so easily to me.

>>6340336
NTA, but are they requiring streaming experience?

>>6346142
is koronese some regional dialect or why does she speak like she that?

>>6347408
Remembering a picture is all memorisation. Which is far easier than putting your brain and concentration to work while listening. Just the way it is unfortunately.

>>6347147
What is there to contribute? This thread has literally nothing to do with vtubers besides your delusional wish for Japanese vtubers to wake up tomorrow speaking fluent English.

>>6335760
fpbp

Why dont jannies delete bait threads like this?

>>6346380

>>6346899
Maybe not the whole country, but we can make the vtubers learn English.
Marine, Subaru, Haachama, and probably others are all doing more English content because of us.

>>6348050
>Haachama
>more content
>any content

>>6338978
the idea that writing only in kana is comparable to writing without spaces is EOP mutt nonsense. children's books are written without kanji because, surprise, children haven't learned kanji yet. when you grow up with the language, you can immediately parse strings into relevant semantic units with ease because japanese is highly inflected.

>>6346737
You should at least try to know something about kanji before offering your gay opinions

>>6347563
Yeah she speaks with quite a strong rural Kansai dialect.

>>6348050
Marine is not doing shit and Haato doesn't exist.

>>6335760
Based

>>6343843
>strawman
>I literally cannot tell what usage of the word "straw" they are using, the post provides such limited context, it could be any of the 12 meanings.

>>6348337
Marine is making officially translated clips for us, plus taking English classes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCsdilKt3Mg

>>6347375
The most common thing to trip up on is a compound word where you might know a few of the characters and their readings, but not how the whole word is read. You can usually guess the meaning from the different parts that make up the compound word and the context of the sentence. Or you just count the strokes and look it up. Just start your reps and see for yourself, you’ll encounter it after a few months of study. Place names are often quite tricky because they’ll use unusual readings, but place names in English are highly irregular too (e.g. Leicester, Bicester, Cirencester etc.)

>>6348680
Marine is not learning any english and this clip was commissioned from her regular japanese clipper on twitter.
This is one piece of content after 4 months and it's not even related to her taking classes.

>>6347563
She speaks Kansai-ben, she's from the Osaka region.

>>6348329
>>6349330
>>6346142
Man.. I thought I had pitch accent down until I heard this. I still can't quite catch what she's doing wrong without the help of those annotations.

>>6338978

>>6349330
Osakans are based. No wonder she's got such a vibrant peraonality. I didn't pick it up as an EOP with her fake voice, but country accents are rich and wholesome. Korone really is best dog.

Fuck it, just switch to romaji and make it stick this time. It's easier and less confusing.

>>6339108

>>6346007
I learned both Spanish and English at the same time when I was a child. I still remember how confuse I was when I was told that Arkansas was pronounce way different than what I thought it would be. The lady in the vid pretty much had the same reaction as I did.

https://youtu.be/FPZi51GL3cs

>>6345528
I need to see that video. I don't really like cure dolly (just read more instead of watching her lol) but if she shits on dogen then she's good for something.

>>6344831
this happens to me way too often

>>6340293
Spanish also has very few sounds and it reads just fine, the whole "kanji is actually necessary" is just not true, languages change slowly, but I think the tendency is that kanji will slowly loose the importance it has today.

>>6348329
>>6349330
Interesting, she doesn't sound like any other Kansai-ben speaker I've heard before, and I don't hear her Kansai leak with stuff like あかんs or ほんまs like sometimes happens with Botan or Choco

>>6351855
The reason for this is because of their etymological origins, actually. Arkansas originated from the Algonquins, who called them and their land the Arkansas, which just means "south wind". The issue comes now to what exactly they were called via how they were spelt. The earliest French explorers in the area spelt it as Akansea, which would in French pronunciation, would be pretty close to Ar-kan-saw. Then it was, simplified to Acansa and then the tribe was referred to as Les Akansas by the French again, a half-century later, which we know 100% is pronounced A-kan-saw in French. Then another half century later, an American mapper for the area used his dialect to spell it as Arkansaw. The issue is not that Arkansas' pronunciation was ever wrong to begin with, but due to a disagreement. When Arkansas was being drafted up for formal statehood, there was no agreement between the two senators on to how the state should be called or pronounced. One of them wanted it to be pronounced Ar-KANSAS and spelled Arkansas, while the other wanted it to be Arkansaw and pronounced Ar-kan-saw. The first senator wanted to stay true to the written word despite its pronunciation, but the other senator wanted the spelling to reflect the pronunciation. They reached an agreement to honor both, by having it spelled closely to its roots in Akansas while taking on the pronunciation it always had, irrespective of English language conventions.
>tl;dr: Arkansas uses its historical French-derived pronunciation rather than conventional English pronunciation

Kansas, in comparison, is much more straight-forward and better preserved from its naming to conventional day pronunciation.