2021 i am forgotten

[Anonymous No.]

what went wrong

[Anonymous No.]

>>325985
Should cash in on being the first v-tuber more, doesn't seem to stream much either.

[Anonymous No.]

>>325985
Upd8 being retarded.

[Anonymous No.]

>>325985
>what went wrong
The Chinese got to her

[Anonymous No.]

>>325985
Who?

[Anonymous No.]

>>325985
i didn't even know she was replaced

[Anonymous No.]

>>326142
No she was not. They tried to, but they fucked up and lost tons of money.

[Anonymous No.]

>>326192
so she basically shares the channel with other fakes?

[Anonymous No.]

>>326226
Her sisters got new models and moved to a new channel, but one of them retired.

[Anonymous No.]

>>326192
>No she was not.
She was. She did almost nothing for several weeks after the announcement dropped. She only came back well after the backlash hit so the company probably had to negotiate something to get her back.

[Anonymous No.]

>>326192
>>326142
this shit lost her so much momentum, it's actually stupid
2 mil subs with 60k view vids

[Anonymous No.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQd9KfsnvdA

[Anonymous No.]

>>332126
sad

[Anonymous No.]

>>325985
The lessons we learned from Kizuna AI, while tragic, were extremely valuable and we wouldn't be where we are today without them.

Lesson 1: The actress is everything. Fans consider the actress of a vtuber to be the soul of the vtuber. It cannot be replaced.

Lesson 2: Management getting too controlling in what a vtuber can do makes the vtuber feel too coperate and turns off fans.

Lesson 3: Don't sell out to China or try to cater to China at all. The west despises China and Japanese fans aren't too hot for the chinks either.

[Anonymous No.]

>>337923
well, Lesson 1 was also hammered home by that high school games club group

and we all can point to HoloChiNk as the hammer for Lesson 3

[Anonymous No.]

>>337923
Lesson 4: The whole is greater than the sum of parts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>325985
>make popular thing
>change thing
>it's not popular anymore
>what went wrong
this happens far too often

[Anonymous No.]

>>342259
Kizuma AI did just fine solo. She wasn't even a gamer. She would do things like play hangman and talk about random shit. Her decline was 100% due to the actress replacement and selling out.

[Anonymous No.]

>>337923

I'm glad you pointed this out with China. It was borderline retarded how Management decided to sell out and make multiple versions of her in China. Even worst was when this Chinese version did a Ahegao face which makes no sense at all. Management really dropped the ball on everything when they decided to expand and it ended up hurting Kizuna Ai in the long run.

[Anonymous No.]

>>342259

Is there a video of above and a video for below? I'm really curious to see what the reaction was like back then.

[Anonymous No.]

>>326060
this

[Anonymous No.]

>>326226
If I remember correctly, the VA got back in full power as a comitee member not long ago because the shared VAs thing got so out of hand that the company started to take every single deal they could to gain money, it got so bad that sometimes they wouldn´t be able to recall or register what did they signed up to for profits (reason why there was so much Kizuna Ai merch yet it seems there was not enough people to buy it) because there was multiple people signing deals and near to zero management for them, also the interest on her started to decline by the "not the original VA" stuff.

Then the old company pretty much imploded and lended the rights to a new one which is the one in which the VA works as an advisor (not comitee member, sorry) and they are basically trying (not sure if succeding) to regain her fame, because the fallout was so bad some people who recently got into it think companies like Hololive or Nijisanji were the ones to pioneer VTubers, not Kizuna Ai and the similar ones.

I don´t really think this is gonna go anywhere, I mean, I would like Ai to get her crown back but pretty sure they have NO PLAN to actually tackle the issue of the overcrowded JP market nor they have good enough advisors to tackle the foreign market, specially the ENG one.

No idea if they still catter to the Chinese, but if they do, they definitely cannot go full "western audience", because we know what happened last time someone fucked up by pure accident, the chinese never consider anything an accident.

[Anonymous No.]

>>326060
This. Honestly I stopped watching when I'm gone for a week and suddenly the autists that were subbing for us kaigainikkis had a spat and ragequit doing that, so I couldln't undertsand her vids (she didn't livestream then) and so I stopped watching.

Then apparently they tried making "different personalities" and things went to crap or something.

[Anonymous No.]

>326226
The stain of Upd8's management will always haunt Kizuna Ai because the average viewer still thinks Kizuna Ai VA got changed.

[Anonymous No.]

>>344504
>can't reply
Back to r/hololive you go faggot

[Anonymous No.]

>>342469
Nah, the lack of collabs really hit her.

Fans were begging for her to collab with Luna for fucking MONTHS, but upd8 (and Luna's company too) were too fucking retarded and Ai slowly drifted into irrelevance, the clones arc and the fallout from it was just the last nail in the coffin.

[Anonymous No.]

>>337923
I love that Japanese suits are trying their usual bullshit on foreigners who don't respond to it at all. They have absolutely no idea on how to react to a non-japanese customer. They come out with the same phoney face-saving shit they always do, not realizing that westerners immediately write off a businessman's apology.

[Anonymous No.]

I will never forget oyabun. I wish she did more with other tubers though. At first I wanted it because it would show she wanted to get names out but now it would show people the og is back.

[Anonymous No.]

>>345051
Literally nobody cared about her collabs. She being replaced was the main thing about why she declined. Even Pewdiepie said this at some point.

[Anonymous No.]

>>326021
Except she's not even close to being first VTuber, it was shitty marketing trick cashing in on lack of knowledge among her viewers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>346153
>literally coined the term "virtual youtuber"
>b-b-b-but
Nobody's retarded enough to think she's the first YouTuber with a cartoon avatar, but all the current VTubers take their cues from Ai or her immediate generation of copycats.

[Anonymous No.]

>>346153
She coined the term and founded the industry. There's no working around these facts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>326086
Why people even bother getting in bed with them when it often backfires

[Anonymous No.]

>>346728
It's a huge market and if you even get a tiny percentage of it's big money.

[Anonymous No.]

>>325985
they shouldve just made other vtubers instead of kizuna5.0

[Anonymous No.]

>>325985
>no collabs with the other OGs when they were all at the top of their game
>stale, repetitive content that got tiring after a while
>chinese Ai and chinese pandering with china-exclusive original Ai events
>normie pandering instead of focusing on their core base
>the response to declining views and increased workload for the VA was to hire additional soundalike VAs to crank up the views
>pretend viwers are retarded and won't notice and don't even acknowledge it
>since they don't acknowledge it they don't communicate properly that the clones are a supplement and the original VA isn't being replaced
I could go on bit that's basically it

[Anonymous No.]

Last time I watched her it felt like she was being forced to make videos and they were really repetitive. I think that was around the time when the clones were introduced. Just watched a recent video where she said fakyuu wasn't really part of her character in the early days, which pretty much sums up everything. She lost her spontaneity. There's too much planning, controlled change and habit now.

I remember her VA discussing the shenanigans on her own channel out of character. The video is gone now but I found it really genuine and wished Ai could be more like her. It sounded like she really wanted Ai to succeed but couldn't do anything more about it and couldn't say much about the topic either without violating contract. She also said something about being afraid of people finding out who she was because she didn't look cute like Ai at all and the whole thing was really honest and relatable.

It's important to the whole parasocial thing too. People get attached to characters like a friend and want to see them succeed and grow following their own passion. If the growth is just a corporate act though, people don't want to be friends with that and lose interest. Same stuff happens with artists and musicians. Nothing wrong with playing a character and putting on a show. It's just when it's not genuine. Like the whole clone thing irreparably damaged Ai's reputation because it wasn't honest or transparent. They also avoided addressing the issue honestly, and still do to this day, so the core fans that talk about Ai everywhere lost trust and went away. The company keeps Ai so in character and refusing to acknowledge reality it just comes off fake.

[Anonymous No.]

>>346728
Companies only see the money to be made from that massive market, they like all the others believe themselves more capable than the ones that have been burned by that market.

[Anonymous No.]

Which of the vtubers that became notable debuted second after Ai? Also, which of the vtubers from 2016/2017 are still a big deal today?

[Anonymous No.]

>>350969
I remember Kaguya Luna was pretty popular right after AI, not sure what happened to her though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>350969
Depends on what you call a big deal. There's Mirai Akari who kind of revived recently, but she's getting indie tier audience.
There are also the ones managed by Eilene.

[Anonymous No.]

>>351229
She's been pretty much missing since late 2019, going on and off for several months. The most common narrative is that she just got burned out from all the live events Sony Music put her through, but it has never confirmed.

She's still lretty active on her old channel, tho but it's her usual surreal cartoons instead of vtubing stuff

[Anonymous No.]

>>349972
All the best Vtubers are corporate acts tho. Indie vtubers suck and break character

[Anonymous No.]

>>346728
China deliberately dangles the "1.4 billion potential consumers" out for the corporations of the world as bait and many execs see that and think that dealing with the CCP bullshit is worth it if they can get even a fraction of it, not realizing just how far the CCP are willing to go when it comes to fucking them over.

[Anonymous No.]

>>351564
True but there a thing known as suspension of disbelief. As long as you don't actively break that trust your fans will go out of thier way to ignore it, similar to how even though everyone knows wrestling is fake thei fans will still pretend it's all real when things are happening, because accepting that is a prerequisite of enjoying the hobby in the first place.

[Anonymous No.]

>>325985
basically isolated in a flooded market, also you gotta remember that pioneers dont stay at the top.
like what happened with myspace and facebook

[Anonymous No.]

>>351564
That's arguable

[Anonymous No.]

>>350969
Of the VTuber Elite Four that rose up after Ai, Mirai Akari and Siro are still kind of trucking along. YouTube views wise they're not doing amazing, pretty much peaking at 700k subs and 20-30k views per video, but from my understanding they have side projects on Japanese TV and radio that mean they're still overall fairly successful.
Kaguya Luna was arguably the biggest act, 2nd in subs but 1st in views until she disappeared in 2019.
Nekomasu found other shit he wanted to do. Apparently he used to work as a cashier and his success on Nekomasu gave him an in to the tech industry and he did pretty well there for a while, recently revived his character but it's become a side project and he only releases content once every few weeks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>351583
Feels like a waste not to focus on Taiwan instead, which is safer and they have more interest in Japan including Otaku stuff like Vtubers. Statically they donate the third most on Vtubers and are willing to buy merch. If Vtuber companies played their cards right they would be able to have concerts and fan meetings in Taiwan like how some j-idols like how Nogizaka46 has a concert once or twice a year over there.

[Anonymous No.]

>>328842
During that time, the original AI was busy appearing in TV shows,singing and dancing practices, recording music, etc. The multiple AI clone was made so that the original AI won't get burnt out. There are plans to treat AI as a character with interchangeable VA similar to Game-bu until they realize such thing won't be well received to the audience. The only time I see such attempt is working was in Domyoji Cocoa and that was probably because she don't engage much with her audience.

[Anonymous No.]

>>352040
That's just the company's narrative. All signs indicate that the original Ai was NOT happy with the change, which is why she wrested control of the character back. If anything, Ai has started streaming a bunch more now and is busier than ever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>352101
Well I didn't say the original AI was happy with the change. She develops the character and mold it over her own personality. Of course she won't be happy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>350969
Sora

[Anonymous No.]

>>351583
>>351859
There's also the prospect of China bullying corps not to work with you for working with Taiwan. Cheap labor and cheap merch>sticking it to the big chink. That said, Holo merch is still being made in China and the whole Coco arc was a big nothing burger to the loud minority claiming they were calling the shots.

[Anonymous No.]

Never pander to chinks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>326086
>>326086
>>326086
>>326086
>>326086
this

[Anonymous No.]

>>325985

Her videos all became kinda samey. The thumbnails weren't enticing.

A good stream should have a clear objective I think.

[Anonymous No.]

>>325985
The whole thing with Love-chan and Aipii made people unsub but then after the original seiyuu went back to fully voicing AI-chan every idiot around the globe keep spreading the old info that her seiyuu was changed and it went like that until people just don't watch her anymore.
She currently have "decent" number of viewers but definitely not top tier anymore.

[Anonymous No.]

>>337923
Lesson 3 is bullshit and you know it.
Maybe only 5% of her audience even know that the company had anything to do with China. Her downfall came from the whole VA debacle and the spread of misinformation afterwards where even after the original VA was back, everyone still say that her VA is different.

[Anonymous No.]

boring unfunny bitch

[Anonymous No.]

>>353734
She can't undo the damage.
A bad memory is 100 times stronger than a good one.
Not only did this last for 1 year but the associated feeling was extremely negative.
Nothing can erase the damage that enduring the clone saga did to her fans.
Every time her older fans watch her they will be reminded of this cursed past.

[Anonymous No.]

>>349972
I have to agree.
Originally what made me sub was that she was making a genuinely funny parody of a youtuber, all the early videos were copying things popular people did in her own way. It actually made me laugh back then. And she was terrible at the games she played, like the Resident Evil 7 playthrough, yet they were still fun to watch because of her enthusiasm. I stopped watching when the flood of phone games videos started, before the incident and before 1million.

If she were making interesting streams as people say she is now I'd sub and watch again, but Nijisanji, Hololive and hundreds of others do it so much more entertaining.

[Anonymous No.]

This could even be seen as a traumatic experience.
There may be one way to cure this, but I never heard of a mass therapy being tested before through streaming before.
She would have to create some kind of mini movie re acting the past traumatic events when the clone saga started, but change the story in the second part to what should have happened.
This would be an alternate reality that her fans could use to replace the traumatic experience with a happier one as this is what the subconscious seeks when remembering bad events. It wants a better solution to prevent the traumatic experience from happening and use it as a reference for future behavior.
In this mini movie she would fight the suits head on immediately and ask for all her fans support to help her instead of caving in and letting them destroy her. It could use some kind of mini game like Nier automata where the fans support is shown to have an effect and generate a strong wave that would save her.

If she can manage to do this she could overcome the damage and recover some of her previous popularity and fans.
But this would need a really big amount of investment, efforts and logistics.

[Anonymous No.]

>>344240
You don't remember correctly. Basically she won a legal battle with upd8 and is now her own CEO (though she hired a manager for that shit), look up Kizuna Ai Kabushiki Gaisha

[Anonymous No.]

>>325985
The idolshit gets boring very quickly

[Anonymous No.]

But for this to work Nozomi herself needs a therapy to improve and become the person who would have done this to make it believable and accepted as the new reality.
All this would only just enable her to start back at her previous level.
She would still have to find ways to make her streaming videos entertaining and create a group of streamers around her to interact with.

[Anonymous No.]

>>345631
She's over at tamaki's a lot tho. Dunno why Tamaki can't play with hololive like they used to last year (owning her own company now probably is one thing), that would easily bring Ai back into the game.
Doesn't help she's not used to streaming compared to her excellent video making, but streaming is where the hyperactive money is.

[Anonymous No.]

>>344240
Japanese corporatism strikes again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>351583
Isn't that stupid though? I heard it was almost impossible to actually get Chinese earnings out of China.

[Anonymous No.]

>>351564
>Indie vtubers suck
Explain Shigure Ui, Pochi and SUNTORY NOMU then, faggot!

[Anonymous No.]

>>355273
>Suntory Nomu
>indie
>Suntory
Big kek.

[Anonymous No.]

i thought it was the company partnering with china that made jpn abandon her, not the voice actor change which never happened.

[Anonymous No.]

Why are these threads always so endlessly retarded.
Just a timeloop of newfags asking the same dumbass outdated questions they could have answered for themselves by taking a glimpse at the channel.
God I hate you all so much.

[Anonymous No.]

https://youtu.be/lQd9KfsnvdA

[Anonymous No.]

>>355141
They don't know that until after they set up shop. Awareness of just how scummy it is to do business in china is starting to spread but there'll always be guys in suits out there who think that they'll be the one to profit from the chinese market this time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>346153
Well the actual first vtubers were either just mascots for other companies like Super Sonico or uncanny vloggers like Ami Yamato, so no one really cares.

[Anonymous No.]

>>355141
Not an expert but I think China makes it very hard and limits how much money you can take out of the country.

>>357212
JP vtubers go to China in hopes that they can find an audience there after failing to get one in JP sometimes.
The downside being that the Chinese audience will demand loyalty to only them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>344240
>No idea if they still catter to the Chinese

yes she does, she was talking a lot in chinese in last 2 concerts but haven't really say anything in english (except shitty jap song with broken english)

[Anonymous No.]

>>344240
>I mean, I would like Ai to get her crown back
She's still Ai. There's a reason why she rocketed to the moon.

Give it time, maybe more live-streams. There's no replacing the queen.

[Anonymous No.]

>>354229
Nice narrative, retard

She's still under activ8 (upd8's parent company), she was just moved to a new division because upd8 was going under; and she isn't even the CEO of the sub-company she's just listed as and advisor (whis is actually an improvement over the old situation where she had no say in the direction)