Numbers, numbers

[Anonymous No.]

Like a lot of people I found Cover's decisions sort of baffling when it comes to content and how they seem to pointlessly restrict their talent, but small Japanese company, etc. etc. But out of curiosity I looked at their aggregate numbers and it turns out, in terms of Youtube at least, they aren't small at all. All numbers are presented from socialblade and holostats:

Hololive, all time: 43M subs, 3.4B views
Hololive, last 30 days: 2.3M new subs, 330M views
HoloEN, all time: 7.7M subs, 436M views
HoloEN, last 30 days: 480K subs, 50M views

It's hard to compare with channels that have been around for years, but some recent monthly numbers for some fairly well-known channels, all for May 2021:

MrBeast: 1.4M new subs, 360M views
Dude Perfect: 200K new subs, 133M views
Marshmellow: 300K new subs, 157M views

This is not to say they are on the same level money or advertising wise as those channels. Obviously Hololive has a ton of talents split across multiple countries/languages with different focuses. This can be an advantage: an advertiser like Wacom is targeting a very specific audience of serious illustrators and hobbyists, so while gaming focused Holos are pretty useless Ina is literally the top streamer in her niche. But even HoloEN as a unit is nothing to sneeze at and they've been around less than a year and Gen 2 is around the corner. There's the possibility of even more growth so in some ways now is the time to start bargaining.

So each individual Holo, even Gura, is pretty small potatoes. HoloEN as a gen, and Hololive as whole is actually in the same ballpark as top100 Youtube channels. There's at least the potential for serious money at stake now and while revenue is great risk management becomes more and more of a concern as a company grows and matures. It will only get worse, not better as Cover grows and starts getting entangled with other interests. It's not necessarily bad, I'm happy my oshi is basically set for life, but it makes sense why Coco was unhappy and Cover wasn't willing to just let her do as she pleased despite the money she brought in. It also makes the China theories stupid: China is the embodiment of large possible revenue with high risk strings attached. Feel free to grudge post me.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5441933
Nah you pretty much right. Even pewds matuted and go famlly friendly. Too bad most of the holofags are edgy teenagers who love their peepeepoo smelly cunny jokes and ignored the majority of the girls who wants non of that shit.

[Anonymous No.]

Ogey

[Anonymous No.]

>>5441933
Fame bring troubles that comes as one of the price that need to be paid in advance.

this place for example. anyone that willing to see past their own biased views can already tells that the old pre rage RA BS when this place is the only unfiltered place where we find the lorez JPG of anime girls to fap.
then came the fame that bring some of the tard that eventually usher the birth of /pol/

Imagine the alt universe IF Poole that time decides want to go sterile. this place will turns into something like imgur....or pinterest.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5441933
>Dude Perfect
Eh most of what you said makes sense, except trying to compare views and subs from 5 minute videos channels against full blown streamers. They are different content, as the quick skits are much more digestible to watch every single day.
You should be comparing them with other top streamers with longer durations. Like xqc, skyuno, valkyrae, pokimane.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5441933
Dream gets 300k+ people daily for Minecraft, you are on crack if you think vtubers are on the same planet as PDP/Dream/actual big streamers.

XQC gets 100k daily for cringe GTA RP.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5441933
Pretty much yeah, getting big and profitable in YT means becoming family friendly, specially for sponsors

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442454
lit. who

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442454
me again, I meant to quote those three you listed, not just one

[Anonymous No.]

>>5441933
Because those subs and views overlap within the company. You're also comparing an entire company with a single person. Also comparing channels that upload like 2 or 3 times a month vs streamers uploading nearly every other day.

People talk about them like they're a small company because their revenue isn't that large comparative to other huge companies.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442138
You bring a good point, I think these people has to realise that while things really wont change that much, only difference is they wont be going wild in the open scene like coco used to do, they won't go full cum shit jokes.
But you will still have the same fanservice, the jokes, the interactions... Nothing changed that much, I'm starting to think is secondaries complaining

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442589
Nijisanji allows risque shit, Holopro doesn't.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442454
Pokimane in May 2021 got 181K new followers and had 6.5M views. That's actually way lower than I thought it would be. Gura alone has 180K new subs and 12.4M views in the last month.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442589
>But you will still have the same fanservice, the jokes, the interactions... Nothing changed that much
Too bad the faggots wouldnt notice that since they never watch stream and only go for those clickbaiting clips.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442640
well there's still but slapping back in nov-dec 3D streams on holo official ch

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442640
Different demographic and audience size

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442492
Sure, but if you compare them to female streamers they are still pretty top tier.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442640

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442754
>Different demographic and audience size
tired horny perverted Japanese businessman that haven't groped any loli's on their train home?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442454
Man I had no idea who skyuno was when those rrats were spawned I assumed he was a big time name.

Sykkuno: 3.5M followers, 66M views, last 30 days 140K followers, 7.7M views
Gura: 2.9M subs, 125M views, last 30 days 180K subs, 12.4M views

Twitch and Youtube are hard to compare but people acted like he was way bigger than her. They are really very much in the same ballpark.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442138
Go back to r*ddit

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442771
When are they going to get cancel?!?!

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442800
Kekek that's actually makes me laugh and probably yes. Groomers love drunk loli

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442800
Japan vs the whole world

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442771
Black company!

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442640
This is by no means risque. YouTube only cares about booba. It's just the Cover management is consisted of retard old men and they cater to Otaku audience that wants everything to be generic bland moe

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442771
Kek. Fucking Chaika.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442906
no (you)

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442771
imagine this happening and Reddit/the west reacting to it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442640
If people would watch some streams they would know that they still do lewd stuff. Hell just check watames birthday stream for some of it

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442908
Chaika is literally a tranny in lore so he's immune. (The Japanese word used to describe him is used for literal trannies as well)

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442999
I've seen this clip a bunch of times already and it still makes me cringe.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5443062
He's a crossdressing pervert, not a tranny.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442299
rrat

[Anonymous No.]

>>5443222
I know nothing about him but am instantly repulsed. He seems like his design alone would be cancer for Western corporate advertisers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5443283
Westerners would suck his dick in a heartbeat if he was actually a tranny.

[Anonymous No.]

Pekora: 200M views
>Pekora is a monster!

[Anonymous No.]

>>5443418
He used to actually LARP as a tranny with an effeminate voice early in his debut until he got tired

[Anonymous No.]

>>5441933
>risk management becomes more and more of a concern as a company grows
Cant we just have numbers without trying to make excuses for Cover getting rid of Coco? This whole Coco is a liability to a company going family friendly, is a problem for people who don’t think anime is for kids to begin with.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5443491
Okama =/= tranny.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5441933
>large possible revenue
Large revenue that you can't actually take out of that country. Unless you grease a lot of palms until you're left with peanuts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442640
I think the reason for this is, besides Cover being too paranoic, that since Nijinsaji dont pay a salary to their chuubas if their channel gets demonetized the only one who get fucked are the chuubas, specially if they are not top or mid tier nijis.

On the other hand getting a holo demonetized affect the chuuba and the company

[Anonymous No.]

>MrBeast
>pewds
>Dream
>Pokimane

You guys have to be 18 or over to be on this board, go back. I realize you want hololive after school daycare edition, but find something else.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5443704
If you're gonna do noombers postting having awareness of what people who aren't 30 year old millennials reminiscing about old 4chan choose to watch is relevant

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442999
you are asking too much to these retards anon

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442640
>he thinks most anons here actually watch streams

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442845
>They are really very much in the same ballpark.
No, they are exactly in the same weight class. Gura just happened to size up to her streaming peers in a way shorter time span. Why do you think everyone and their pet dog wants to collab with Hololive?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5443606
She is not a liability, she doesnt want to change her content withing the boundary of the new rule thus she quit. That's all there is to it. Mel, choco, and hachama got nerf hard since youtube ASMR purge but they still managed somehow. Coco just have too much she wants to do that not align with these boundaries so she btfo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442640
>Nijisanji JP allows risque shit, Holopro and doesn't.
Nijis foreign departments are as puritan as Holos

[Anonymous No.]

>>5443444
Mori will be passing Pekora in views in the not too distant future.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5443879
more holos in the 200M views club are always welcome

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442999
>he still thinks most anons here actually watch any streams

[Anonymous No.]

>>5443704
I legitimately question if you're the child if this is the kind of discourse that you choose to bring to a numbers thread that actually tried to legitimately discuss numbers for once.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5443879
>Mori will be passing Pekora in views in the not too distant future.
If she keeps pumping out music I can believe that. It's a different category tho, getting a 5 min song to get 4 million views is not as remarkable as getting a daily 2hr+ video get enough views to pile up that high.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442999
Most anons here are just here for the drama and (you)s.
Most of them didn’t even know that hachaama has been back in Japan for half a year.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444020
>Most of them didn’t even know that hachaama has been back in Japan for half a year.
H-how? Just who wouldn't know this?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5443850
When niji stand on the same position as holo today , Niji would be turned into a purelist shit the same as Holo did.

That's called "downside of being the STARS"

[Anonymous No.]

BLUE WOMEN LOVE

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444191
PAON? what the fuck is that?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444191
Blue is a powerful color

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442138
>smelly cunny
nice

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444098
Nah, anons here are right, they would manage the talent much better than Cover
>they would let the talent do whatever they want on stream and outside
>they would PAY them for the privilege
>they would defend them on court against the lawsuits and in the meatspace against physical threats
>they would also PAY them for the privilege
>they would go against everything japanese business culture preaches and would NEVER apologize for either perceived or real slights of their talent, no matter at what cost that would result for the entire company (not only the parties affected)
>they would also also PAY them for the privilege
>they would cover 100% of the upfront cost of any of the girls endeavours be it merchandise, song production, MV comissions and anything and everything without any concern for profitability or business viability
>they would also also also PAY them for the privilege

Yeah, that's a short summary of how anonchamatachi in this board would run a talent agency the size of Hololive Productions: with the mentality of an unironic SIMP which,instead of running their business as a business, they would just give the girls money without any condition or requirement as it they were superchatting them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444281
so true

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444281
bullshit
I'm not paying a dime.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444444
wasted

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444444
WASTED

[Anonymous No.]

>>5443879
So? Pekora is still a monster

[Anonymous No.]

>Digits on number whoring thread

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444077
During the Haachama hiatus shitshow most anons were talking about Australia, their school system and online school options available.
No one brought up she was in Japan (in the split threads).

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444191
I though Gura was supposed to get good numbers for her birthday.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444444
sinigami mosimosi

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444281
b-based

[Anonymous No.]

So is this the numbers thread for today?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444649
50% of chumbuds are clipfags, they never watch stream or contribute anything for their oshi aside from being toxic and gave her a headache.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444281
Hit right on the nail

[Anonymous No.]

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444649
You made the mistake in thinking that more than 2% of Gura's subs wanted to celebrate her birthday.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444444
Huh, I guess Cover really is superior to anontachi

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444444
>444444
this is the 7th trumpet

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444926
There are still some streams from yesterday

[Anonymous No.]

>>5445006
Ok

[Anonymous No.]

>>5443673
Yet, Nijisanji solve ban/demonetization faster than Holo.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444444
Etto, Cover-sama?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444240
The latest FOTM horror kusoge, sequel of "Pien"

[Anonymous No.]

>>5445136
Good for them, but doesnt change the fact that what I said is true

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444281
Based and undeniable.

[Anonymous No.]

>AMONGUS FINAL NUMBERS ARE OUT

- Miko is always entertaining when playing this sort of games and her numbers show.
- Marine has a captive audience that will follow her wherever whatever she streams, she's streaming a drawing stream right now with 18k right after that one
- Coco graduation buff is wearing off and the ability to carry Kanacoco to huge numbers is over. It doesn't help it was a 9fold collab too, with folks mostly sticking to their oshi POV
- Lamy (like Flare) as usual going for quality over quantity. Instead of accepting any Joe Blow she captures the most loyal and willing to commit and trade attention and comfort for financial support.
- Korone, Botan, Fubuki and Noel with nothing remarkable or different from their usual viewership

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444649
still coping over her having the most live viewers in a stream industry-wide, usagi? (until Coco grad. mogs the shit out of it, of course)

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444281
>>they would go against everything japanese business culture preaches
I'm aware that this is posted semi-ironically, but it does seems that much of /vt/ are in some sort of cognitive dissonance where they despise western-raised chuubas/streamers and prefer JP based ones while also failing to understand that JP culture, for better or for worse, are what contrasts their chuubas against western ones.
I certainly cant say for everyone, but i believe i speak for a good amount of people that one of the reason western e-celebs, chuubas including, put people off is how they never fails to eventually let fame on their heads and starts sniffing on their own farts.
Imagine if Pekora, probably one of the most watched female streamers right now, drops/tweets her 2cents on random drama/ongoing events like everyone of her viewers needs to hear her takes on every little things.
That is what is prevalent on western e-celebs, they truly believe that their personality, thoughts, and individuality is what have attracted their viewers, not the content or entertainment value they might have produced.
These sort of behaviour is only allowed by how their audiences treats them. whereas western e-celebs are pampered by their fans and can do no wrong at all, JP based chuubas, and idolfaggotry to a larger extent, are largely shackled by their fans and or manager. although it may seem heartless, that sort of things is what keeps the talents' ego in check and what distincts them for their western counterparts.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5446309
>until Coco grad. mogs the shit out of it
I wouldn't doubt HoloEN 3D debut or a solo live 3D show with Calli wouldn't be the next big number thing to surpass Coco graduation numbers

[Anonymous No.]

>>5446309
Why does the rabbit have to do with what he said?
Why did the JP Nousagis did that they live rent free in the head of so many people?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442845
How'd you get the stat for Sykkuno's twitch? pretty interesting comparison.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5446440
Because the only people like to shit on Gura's numbers are baiters/flaggers and actual numbersagis. Not even Nijis are as obnoxious as Pekora's numberfags.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5446308
>Fubuki ... with nothing remarkable or different from their usual viewership
I can't speak for the others but fubuki's numbers are usually around the 7-8k range, this is absolutely a boost for her.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5446440
its a numbers thread, the only people here are chumbuds, nousagi, and kfp
>>5446413
yeah, i'd peg mori to take that crown later in the year. till then though, I wouldnt be surprised with a 250k Coco grad

[Anonymous No.]

>>5446340
Subaru have the first hand experience last year when her gramps ask her about the whole rage about Vtuber among Japanese Middle Schooler.
Marine and Pekora is the top 2
Roboco took most of the High Schooler.
Middle Schools Boys and Girls in japan approx 13-15 yrs old.
High Schooler approx 15/16-17/18 yrs old.
there's lot Japan viewers tell in SC that Marine streams put them to high potential risks for the famous Japanese Parents angry lecture for hours while kneeling.
Westerner "Time out" punishment is child play
let that sink in.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444281
The reason I watched more niji now...

[Anonymous No.]

>745k in 7 hours
Man, it would have made it to 1M in under 6 if it weren't for that retarded "authentication freeze"

[Anonymous No.]

>>5446697
Kek, its probably worth remembering that anime and streamer culture is still looked down by JP at large.

[Anonymous No.]

While I think Coco made Cover reevaluate some things, from their perspective a) they have had insane growth over the last year even with the yabs b) people would literally kill for a job with them. Even in the US and Japan there are plenty of charismatic clever girls who are scratching out a living, never mind countries like Indonesia or most of South America where Mori can make more in a stream than the average adult makes in a year. Some could forge out on their own but Yagoo’s home for broken girls has a lot of talent who would struggle with independence. Leaving your friends and a six figure income for playing video games and literally just drinking and chatting with friends for the unknown is not easy.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5446916
like clockwork

[Anonymous No.]

>>5446646
Social blade breaks down followers and views by month and has lifetime numbers as well. For basic info on YouTube and twitch it’s a good resource.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447036
kek thank you for pointing that out, i've been waiting for it

[Anonymous No.]

>>5446940
I think it’s more accurate to say there’s a generational divide. Most adults either think xqc is an idiot or have no idea who he is. Same with Fortnite or Among Us. But he’s a top steamer in large part because younger people watch.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447003
There is nothing to evaluate, they will only accept girls who is broken enough that they wont leave (coco is definitely not broken) but not too broken that they will leave after debut ( Aloe baggage is way too much even for them) from now on.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5441933
Bleed some numbers for me too
https://youtu.be/dQQNL1Iv_EM

[Anonymous No.]

>>5446340
>while also failing to understand that JP culture, for better or for worse, are what contrasts their chuubas against western ones.
THIS fucking 100%. Take the "apologizing" culture, for instance.
It is INATE in their culture and not something that can be changed or even challenged at the individual level.
Failing to apologize EVEN IF YOU LITERALLY DID NOTHING WRONG is an even worse crime than whatever you got accused in the first place.
There is a scene on My Hero Academia (yeah, I know) that illustrates this very well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMp7ZNoOx0o

The teachers (both of which are the highest ranked heroes in that universe) are doing an "apology tour" to atone with the parents of their students for the fact they failed to prevent the possibility of a super powered villain attack in their school
>which they absolutely didn't have any fault and absolutely did everything in their power to protect the students

Anyway, the parents of this student not only also apologize for the fact their son, a student that also did LITERALLY NOTHING WRONG and that was the victim of said attack, was weak enough to be a problem for the school
>AND FORCE HIM TO APOLOGIZE ALONG THEM

By western culture neither party should apologize in the first place for what villains did
>well, by burger culture the parents would sue the school, the school would hire big shot lawyers to bury the families in paperwork and NEITHER PARTY WOULD EVER ADMIT FAULT OR APOLOGIZE

But by nip culture the right thing for both parties is to admit fault to something, give the other party a chance to save face and move along letting the bygones be bygones.
More than that: the higher in the hierarchy you are the more important is both your sincere apology in the presence of your subordinate, also required to apologize (whether they want it or not).
A subordinate leaving their "senpai" hanging and refusing to apologize might as well be pulling a sword and moving it for the kill. The second your company, your parents, your superiors decide an apology is necessary you are apologizing even if they will be forcing that bow out of you
>pic related

Cover (a 7 hundred million yen company) managed to escape a lawsuit they were SURE to lose against Capcom (an 100 thousand million yen company) simply by abiding by this simple cultural norm of:
>apologizing publicly with a tint of corporate and personal humiliation for the CEO
>token punishing the parties involved

It work for the nips and yet, retards here think they could manage the company better than the people with eyes with slants matching their target audience and main sponsors, competitors and benefactors.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447038
Oh, checked. Really good site. Thanks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447003
wait until some ID girls snapped and cross the line and some overzealous patriots sees it as disgrace and start ranting on twitter to make it a huge fuss.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447263
>wait until some ID girls snapped and cross the line and some overzealous patriots sees it as disgrace and start ranting on twitter to make it a huge fuss.
Again?

- they made a fuss because Moona said something like "Mohammed, Buddha and Jesus" greetings in the same sentence
- they made a fuss because the girls wouldn't speak whatever shithole language they speak
They made a fuss a couple of other times I don't remember because why the fuck would I care, but anyway, the girls just apologize (see >>5447215), take a paid week off and move along.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447344
did the fuss big enough to break into day time TV?
if it's stay on the web then it's pretty much a lukewarm outrage.
add politics into it then all hell break loose.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447420
Nah, the fans are quick enough to scare away the dramafags who keep fanning the flame by threatening to wheelbarrow the other agency streamers so it never really gets off to critical state.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5441933
>>5444191
guess this is going to be the designated numbers thread? Here's today's full numbers

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447564
I see, hat tip for them to actually aware of the risks of the Internet.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447575
Hololive is powerful

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447575
>Pekora mogging a 9way AmongUs collab
How do we stop her anons?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447420
Politics in ID doesnt generally get involved unless you're dealing with large movements of money.
If the ID branch gets as big as the JP branch, then those bikini/ASMR/schizo streams that some the jp members did might be a potential point of issue in ID.
Look up how religion/politics in ID play mafia-tier shenanigans with netflix and tik tok. Wouldnt surprise me if the ID branch ends up being forced to disband due to these sort of things if holoID ever starts to move significant amount of money.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447215
apology culture doesnt work on the internet, as it is a tacit acknowledgement of your own wrongdoing. a good example is cover's apology over the Taiwan incident and subsequent suspension of Coco/Haato. All that was done there was embolden anti as their outcry was legitimized. you see it on twitter when westerners are cancelled too, people who try and fight it get drug down into the mud while people who simply ignore it perform much better

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447575
Go comet

[Anonymous No.]

>>5441933
>So each individual Holo, even Gura, is pretty small potatoes.

gura
== 10% of growth for all of hololive in the last month
== 40% of holoEN growth for the past month
== 8% of hololive subs (out of 53 talents, average holo is a little less then 2%)
== 40% of holoEN subs (out of 5 talents)

gura is basically 4-5 idols by herself; and seriously represents almost 10% of the companies growth singlehandedly.

gura's no small fish here.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447665
Expecting any AmongUs to somehow be above Pekora when viewers are split between 8~15 people with the biggest chuubas playing rarely outrank her in live views is asinine, anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447575
- suisei karaokes are too fucking powerful
- pien peko
- migo, marine, korone, coco, fbk all went as expected attracting the most audience, but it is clear that coco doesnt have the same boosts as the start of the graduation month
- kanata came up late on the collab for those wondering
- kanae beating kuzuha, again
- patra seems to have stopped inclining in her asmrs
- flare did impressive, i think she had no collab on that mc stream

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447770
Looks like dead subs to me.

[Anonymous No.]

Speaking of which, Scarlet Nexus got free boost when Gura went trending on twitter. That stream was featured

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447718
>apology culture doesnt work on the internet
do you have a sizeable knowledge about Japanese Internet culture?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447718
You understand that we're still talking about JP internet sphere of influence? Hololive market is still dominantly Japanese, and being beligerent or passively ignoring it is probably the worst outcome when it come to this situation. Apologizing is just a quick way to end the issue with a bit loss of face, if they act beligerent to any small parties who felt slighted then they are just waiting to get kyoanie'd.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447923
>t. deadsagi

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447718
>apology culture doesnt work on the internet
The internet is not real life. Nips know that. They also know that the cimplicated foreign market is not worth losing the easy to understand local market, that's why they very rarely enter a foreign market directly.

The usual structure is
- set up a foreign subsidiary
- appoint a director WITH FULL AUTHORITY to run it as he likes, answering only to the board and the CEO of the HQ
- praise him for any success and blame him for any failure, distancing the HQ from it
- CLOSE SHOP AND BAIL at the first sign the juice is not worth the squeeze

It is like that with Nintendo of America,
Sony Corporation of America, Toyota Motor North America and absolutely any Japanese company doing business outside of Japan.

The apology is to address the local market and ensure your local partners you will do the right thing.
The foreign market / foreign subsidiaries? They quickly sees themselves jobless and out in the street overnight
>as Hololive China quickly found out

Foreign internet retards screeching? A minor nuisance not even at the level of what Aloe suffered with local internet retards, or what even Aqua is dealing right now (also with local internet retards).

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447923
>10% of growth for all of hololive in the last month
brand new subs arent dead subs, sped.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447923
Dead enough to nearly break 200k live viewers threshold on a mere outfit reveal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447988
C'mon anon, you can't use that argument with Pekora when she has been keeping the same numbers for months straight.
A VOD views per stream or record stream would make more sense.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447988
>>5448046
Sure. Just let me know when those people start watching her streams.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447937
>free
It's a sponsored stream, they paid her for it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447215
From what you said, I can understand why Cover are suddenly so risk averse. If some drama blows up, they now know if they don't apologize the Japanese will murder them, and if they do the Western fanbase will. Simplest solution from their perspective is to try to micromanage everything to steer away from drama. Maybe you can partially blame Cover being controlling on their large Western audience.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447923
>>5448115
Dumb take, but whatever.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5443444
but muh subscribers

imagine if Pekora spoke english other than with Moona.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5446647
meds

[Anonymous No.]

>>5448480
>if they do the Western fanbase will
good luck trying to bring gasoline to their office with all those paranoid Japan Police asking you to stop every time they spotted non nihonjin walking on the streets.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5448002
to that end, it begs the question why Cover doesnt just pull the trigger on a CoverUS branch. allowing EN to not be subjected to the same permission restrictions under the umbrella of US fair use practices as well as not having to deal with potential yab fallouts from the EN girls. if Ame for example did something jpbros were super against but EN viewers were fine with, idk how keen she would be to kowtow.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5448480
>From what you said, I can understand why Cover are suddenly so risk averse
This is a numbers thread, there is a perfectly numerical reason for Cover to be risk averse

>they got copystrike and sued by Capcom, a company 100 times bigger then them, and threatened with a lawsuit by Nintendo, a company that on 2021 E3 pulled 3.5 million live viewers on their stream.

Said apology contained the following text:

>We apologize for the use of copyrighted works without the permission of the copyright holders.
>Thank you for supporting our talent.
> In the Youtube archives of several talents belonging to HoloLive Production, the VTuber agency operated by our company, there are some parts of videos that use assets that are not licensed by the right holder, therefore copyright violation.
>This matter is due to the lack of management on our part.

>We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause, and in order to promote sound distribution activities in the future, we will carry out privating and deletion support on all of our talent's YouTube Content.
>We will only publish the content for which we have the permission.

>We deeply regret the fact that this situation has been reached, and we sincerely apologize to everyone involved.
>We would like to reinforce the management system again and try to prevent the recurrence of such a situation.

>There are many points that we cannot address, and we are very sorry, but we would appreciate your continued support.
> June 30th (Thurs.) Cover Co., Ltd.
> President and CEO Motoaki Tanigo

Capcom could easily have 3 striked Mio (they did strike her twice and held off the third) and pretty much every other girl specially the ones in Hololive Gamers. Nintendo could have striken pretty much all of them. 3 strikes and it's over, your person can never create another account on any Google owned platform anymore and any company creating and giving you control of one risk getting themselves banned as well.

Cover is risk averse because they bear all the risk and have ZERO upside on breaking rules to get ahead.
Internet retards can screech all they want but only Nintendo, Sony, Capcom and similar giant japanese conglomerates can actually kill them for good (and they would withouht even leaving the karaoke booth)

[Anonymous No.]

>>5448289
>reading comprehension
Anonchama...

[Anonymous No.]

>>5448828
>under the umbrella of US fair use practices
I surely hope you are not on Cover's Hololive EN legal team because
>there is such no fucking thing as "fair use" as a defense for for profit non educational copyright infringment

Actually "fair use" is an "affirmative defense" for copyright infringment. Here is how it works:
>you get sued
>you show up in court
>you ADMIT TO COPYRIGHT INFRINGMENT
>you try to convince the judge that your actions fall into these guidelines
https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/more-info.html

>Purpose and character of the use, including whether the use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes:
>Courts look at how the party claiming fair use is using the copyrighted work, and are more likely to find that nonprofit educational and noncommercial uses are fair.
>Amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole:
> Under this factor, courts look at both the quantity and quality of the copyrighted material that was used.
>If the use includes a large portion of the copyrighted work, fair use is less likely to be found

For instance:
>showing a 30 seconds montage of Quake 2 rocket jumping to show your computer graphics students the basics of the movement so they can replicate in the engine they have to write for their assignment? FAIR USE
>showing a hour and half playthruogh of the same game to entertain your audience? NOT FAIR USE

The difference between US and JP is NOT THE LAW, it is the fact US companies turn a blind eye to get exposure while JP companies demand a formal authorization

[Anonymous No.]

Cover are such pussies, they even apologized to the nkodice creator for no reason.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447215

>Cover (a 7 hundred million yen company) managed to escape a lawsuit they were SURE to lose against Capcom (an 100 thousand million yen company)

Sure to lose if brought to court. In reality, most lawsuits are settled. If Capcom pursued it, they most likely would've been 50 million yen out of pocket for lawyers and get maybe half of that back in the settlement.

Their situation is pretty similar to the YouTube vs. Viacom suit, where Viacom argued YouTube made money off their copyrighted content, even though YouTube didn't infringe themselves but rather allowed creators to do it. That one took 4 years and settled without any payment.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447770

> gura's no small fish here.

He says of the 4-foot tall shark.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447718
>apology culture doesnt work on the internet, as it is a tacit acknowledgement of your own wrongdoing. a good example is cover's apology over the Taiwan incident and subsequent suspension of Coco/Haato. All that was done there was embolden anti as their outcry was legitimized.
They seem encouraged by their success, yes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5449415
>In reality, most lawsuits are settled. If Capcom pursued it, they most likely would've been 50 million yen out of pocket for lawyers and get maybe half of that back in the settlement.
In Japan?
Without a formal apology they would just browse through every Cover affiliated channel, strike three videos of each containing their intellectual property (and they played plenty of Capcom games in the first few years), meet their buddies (Nintendo CEO, Sony CEO) on the hostess club and get them to do the same while giggling with some big boobed hostess and only after that, in the next day when Hololive Production is wrecked beyond recognition, send a memo to the multi million dollar legal department they keep ON RETAINER (no matter if they're being used or not) to check if anything of Cover survived worth suing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447575
I wasn’t too far off. I thought Gura would get 44k

[Anonymous No.]

>>5449554
The sight of Tanigo doing naked dogeza on a hostess bar to some old bald smelly fat old guy over some stupid video game.
I can pictured it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5448835
It wouldn't have gotten to Nintendo. If Mio had gone down with three strikes, Cover:
>would have had their rights to stream on YouTube suspended
>would have had all related accounts nuked (yes, all Hololive/Holostars)
>would have lost Google services accounts (which they use for daily business)
Effectively going broke within the next quarter due to having to replace all those services and start from scratch on a new video hosting service but with a permanent blacklist in the gaming industry.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447215
>Failing to apologize EVEN IF YOU LITERALLY DID NOTHING WRONG is an even worse crime than whatever you got accused in the first place.
Actually, that is incorrect. It’s an admission of guilt, and often makes even your defenders turn on you afterward (because you’re confirming the enemies words), while it encourages contributed efforts to further destroy. You cannot negotiate with terrorists for a reason.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5449081
>The difference between US and JP is NOT THE LAW, it is the fact US companies turn a blind eye to get exposure while JP companies demand a formal authorization
Nintendo is the poster child for this particular contrast between JP companies and western ones.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5449696
No that's his point. In Japanese culture that's just not how it works. Every culture has their illogical foibles like this the West included. Even if you think it's bullshit what the public and especially other Japanese companies think is what matters in this instance.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5449696
>It’s an admission of guilt
Not in Japan, it is not. You are thinking with burger mentality or with "internet is real life" mentality.

In Japan an apology means
>this fight is not going to advance either of our interests.
I'll shallowly bow and write a formal apology and give you a chance to move away with the higher ground so both our parties can settle this in good terms
It works too. Capcom is sponsoring Mio now, Nintendo granted them blanked license to stream their IP.

>terrorists
Internet retards are not terrorists (well, ISIS used to be both but I digress).
It is not even worth acknowledging them, both Coco and Cover are crying all the way to the bank to deposit the hundreds of thousands of dollars they made in the interim without as much as breaking their stride.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5449678
And then some crazy gachikois will lose their mind and burn some of capcom and nintendo office in retaliation. thank god everyone apologize kek.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447215
>It work for the nips
It actually doesn’t. You are suggesting people here can demand that Cover stop moving toward family friendly content, and if they give Cover a hard enough time, they can force Cover to conform to the mob rule. Yes, I put a spin on it. Why? Because I’m showing you that it can become a tug if war. It’s a broken system.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5449920
>thank god everyone apologize kek.
This is the punchline for >>5449903

>then some crazy gachikois will lose their mind and burn some of capcom and nintendo office in retaliation
Wut? Again, Nintendo got 3.5M live viewers on E3, it would be much more likely for a gang of Animal fucking Crossing japanese housewives to "KyoAni" Cover Corp instead.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5449971
>You are suggesting people here can demand
No, this place is irrelevant for japanese companies targettng the japanese audience

Now if even the minor controversy hits the japanese audience and they demand an apology? They will be apologizing and promising not to do it again and tell the talent to stop doing whatever caused the ruckus
> see: Marine and Miko insulting fucking yaoi retards

[Anonymous No.]

>>5449920
>burn some of capcom and nintendo office
This!
for killing some of the most epic games.
unfortunately they are one of the most well guarded private sectors in the overall Japanese Corporations....
that 80's dead rats package really scared them off apparently.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5449920
It is more likely that the Gachikois would burn down Cover for failing to protect their precious girls.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5449081
that why I said practices and not law. the symbiotic nature between streamer and companies is recognized and does not have the obtuse methodology jp Cover has to acquiesce to as opposed to a potential Cover based in the states.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5449554
Capcom could've wrecked Cover, but they wouldn't get any money going through YouTube's system. They'll also get a bunch of backlash. That's a loss for them too.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5449903
>Not in Japan, it is not
You’re simply confused. Just as you think people in the US can complain or cause trouble for Cover if they don’t become family friendly, people in the US can complain and cause trouble for Cover if they DO become family friendly. Just as removing Coco might be viewed as a lesser evil, if people get upset over it, then it would be a lesser evil to keep her. It becomes a tug of war on a broken system.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450096
>this place is irrelevant
It was an example you idiot. Now address the point. You completely ignored it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450186
>the symbiotic nature between streamer and companies is recognized
Anon, you can't possibly believe this. Get any western streamer to as much show a frame of anything Disney and see how many seconds until strike and, if it is a company, how long until a C&D or a lawsuit hit their doors.

>>5450200
>They'll also get a bunch of backlash. That's a loss for them too.
Only if the audience would perceived Cover as an innocent party. In the event Cover would fail to follow the proper social etiquette of apologizing for being in the wrong?
Capcom would be cheered as the hero punishing some lowly local bandit.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450096
you keep emphasizing that Hololive is directed toward a Japanese audience while neglecting to recognize that with Cover's expansion to the international stage, their practices have to change as well. Using the same heavy hand with talents that dont have jap audiences wont go over well, and they wouldnt just nuke the EN branch to deal with a critical yab like they did CN; a lot more money and rep at stake.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450333
Yeah Disney is fucking crazy with copyright enforcement but the law is entirely on their side, because they fucking helped write a lot of it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450266
>people in the US can complain and cause trouble for Cover if they DO become family friendly
What they're going to do? Boycott Family Mart? Send angry letters to Bushiroad?

Internet is not real life and not every culture is the same. Ironically the internet should have taught people that but it clearly didn't.

>>5450321
I did not ignore it, I refuted the central thesis that seemed to be
>any complaint by any party would carry the same weight and warrant the same apology / change in course

Their market is Japan.
If Japanese started complaining that they wanted a less family friendly direction for Cover and it somehow impacted their relationship with their japanese partners (Bushiroad, GoodSmile, Family Mart, Square Enix, etc) they would do exactly as you say.
But people from elsewhere cannot exert the same pressure so they can be safely ignored

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450016
I'm saying that if the copyright saga had killed cover and make them disband hololive, then fandead and yukimin would probably lash out and try and probably fail at burning capcom office.

>>5450105
>>5450178
In this hypothetical scenario, there is nothing left at cover for them to burn lol.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450333
> Capcom would be cheered as the hero punishing some lowly local bandit.

Your oshi just got banned trying to entertain you. You:
1. Blame her
2. Blame the company that banned her

[Anonymous No.]

Every time someone makes the argument that Cover needs to conform to the mob (apologize and obey), like by getting rid of Coco or whatever people are complaining about at the time, they often fail to see that a different mob can punish them for doing so. Hence a tug of war. People who want Cover to move family friendly don’t realize that it too may come at a cost, even to Cover’s reputation, especially from losing a star like Coco. Besides, who is next? Haachama? Then who? Keep dropping the knee and you will fall over completely.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450266
>people in the US can complain and cause trouble for Cover
doubt it.
Anime and VTuber is still a niche genres that really looked down in the USA.
couple hundreds of below $100 won't be a dent in their SC revenues if it's gone...I'm assuming that the loud pro coco actually spent shit loads of cash to actually viable to sustains Cover in monthly basis.
the other pro coco bunch that really isn't interested to over reach and prolonging the drama won't buy to the narratives as is that make them just stopping simping.
the rest of pro coco non USA viewers such as the Vietnamese, Taiwan, HK'ers, Phillipines, Indian, Indonesian can only be loud as long as their pockets deep enough.
the one and only voices that actually matters and will become a de facto factors on anything Cover will be taken is the Japanese.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450459
>while neglecting to recognize that with Cover's expansion to the international stage, their practices have to change as well.
I did not neglected that, I addressed that at >>5448002 by highlighting how the foreign subsidiaries serve that exact role to insulate HQ from the operation in foreign markets.

Interestingly enough that's exactly why HoloEN management can be much more strict with the talent they manage than their JP counterparts are and JP side won't meddle.

>>5450490
>then fandead and yukimin would probably lash out and try and probably fail at burning capcom office.
Nips are crazy, didn't KyoAni get burned because some train enthusiast thought they stole his "anime train" idea?

I don't think "fear of nutcase backslash" factor in Japanese business decisions, that's pretty much a given

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450333
choosing the most litigious company on the planet is hyperbole so bad I cant even take it seriously. Lets go with a company like EA to bring it back down to earth. EA will 100% not take down streams that utilize their games, including properties like Battlefront, which does fall under the Mouse's jurisdiction. despite this, Cover would still need to get perms while based in japan

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450490
>This! for killing some of the most epic games.
>In this hypothetical scenario, there is nothing left at cover for them to burn lol.
well back at the late 90's someone DID tried to kidnap one of the top head in Nintendo game dev development just because they screwed up and tanked some game that I forgot the name of.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450580
Ogey

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450470
>people from outside Japan cannot exert the same pressure
China had no effect? So Cover didn’t punish Coco, even if just for some weeks, and her relationship with Cover wasn’t hurt at all over angry Chinese men?
>I refuted the central thesis
You refuted nothing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450800
Not an argument. Try again.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450580
I don't think that there's any individual that realistically WANTS Cover to make Hololive family friendly. People that complain about Cover's content assumed they they were family friendly from the start and thus complain to over/Holos over it.

The one that actually want Cover to be family friendly are corporations which, by their very nature, tend to be controversy/risk averse.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450746
>choosing the most litigious company on the planet is hyperbole so bad I cant even take it seriously. Lets go with a company like EA
OK
https://www.destructoid.com/ea-lucasfilm-shut-down-star-wars-fan-game/
>EA, Lucasfilm shut down Star Wars fan game
>An alleged phone meeting with Lucasfilm followed where unnamed executives told Romanelli “they would of [sic] been open to the idea of negotiating a license for Frontwire to work on the Star Wars IP, that they are not able to due to their contract with Electronic Arts (EA).”
>“I was told that Lucasfilm had already spoken with EA about Galaxy in Turmoil and that EA expressed no desire in letting our project continue,” Romanelli added.
>“Their main concern was due to the possibility of Galaxy in Turmoil taking away attention from their Battlefront franchise.

You are right that they would be merciful and allow Hololive to publicize their game for free. Until they feel even slightly threatened by a company potentially either making money out of their property or taking attention away from some other more valuable of their property and down comes the ban hammer

It is TERRIBLY STUPID to make your whole business depend on the mercy and mood of other companies.
What indies can get away for profit companies can't, that should be obvious

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450619
You say that, but HoloEN isnt insulated for the JP branch at all. Just because a McDonalds down the road has a different GM from the one uptown, doesnt mean that they dont both reflect the company. My point is that Cover SHOULD be using the system as you've laid it out, and isnt because.... I'm not sure. My best guess is that freedoms that could come about by having extra perms might cause an imbalance in the JP-EN branches that causes resentment. Idk, that my be my rrat decayed brain speaking

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450833
>China had no effect?
you'll be surprised of the huge amount of Internet shut in made from spoiled brats in the mainland China with lots of free time and cash to burn.
it's basically any numbers of Japan hikikomori multiplies by hundreds and richer.
doubt the Americans can match those numbers and their abilities to cash out without have to slaving themselves flipping burgers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450833
>So Cover didn’t punish Coco, even if just for some weeks
See >>5447215 for why japanese companies apologize and punish everybody involved. Even Tanigo got a (very humiliating, for nip standards) paycut out of the event, that's expected when
>YOUR FUCKING TALENT IS ON THE 9 O'CLOCK NEWS AT HOME AND WORLDWIDE ON A NEGATIVE NOTE FOR WHATEVER BULLSHIT REASON

The event caused the national government of Japan to have to send a fucking delegation to China to deal with the repercussions, it was way beyond "internet retards screeching".

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442454
all of those streamers are on Twitc. It's not really comparable because Twitch archive views are nowhere near YT video views, except for the top 5 streamers like XQC.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450920
Theres a huge difference between utilizing an IP to do fan creations and streaming. EA explicitly says streaming for profit is fine (including for business), as do many if not most indie game devs, but cover still wont let them. and I agree that having your business model reliant on the whims of other companies is a bad one, but thats already the case (except more restrictive) under the JP branch

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450954
>My point is that Cover SHOULD be using the system as you've laid it out, and isnt because.
Yes they are. EN management has complete autonomy and editorial control.
It is quite obvious by the massive difference in managerial style (they keep all of the 5 girls on a tight leash)

[Anonymous No.]

>>5449903
>in Japan it is not
this is how they lost a war, being weak.

[Anonymous No.]

So, uh... the Hydrodynamics™ kicked in...

[Anonymous No.]

>>5451055
Chill dude
doubt anyone here actually ever tries to make a tech start up on Japan and basically challenging any their Showa era obsolete norm.
let them mad.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450610
I’m saying Covers reputation over their position on the China situation hurt them a bit, then over the Coco thing, and it continues to build up. If you think continuing to do whatever the wishes of one mob is (like from China for example) without further repercussions over it, you’re crazy. It’s obviously a balancing act, a tug of war that isn’t in their best interest. It’s obviously not stable. People don’t often immediately turn on a company they like either. It builds up until collapse.
>>5451025
I asked if China made an impact, because of the suggestion that people outside of Japan cannot exert strong pressure. But they clearly did.
>>5451055
>see why japanese companies apologize
That’s not what was asked. You ignored it. I was responding to how dumb this comment is:
>people from outside Japan cannot exert the same pressure

[Anonymous No.]

>>5443879
Alright, and if we exclude music videos from both, is that still true?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5451119
If this were true then there would be more freedom when it comes to indie devs and perms that are blanket approved by their devs beforehand. Games like Valhiem would've been a rubber stamp for the talents, unless JP has actually directed the EN branch to not allow a disparity in the games EN can / will play compared to the home branch.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447038
Socialblade doesn't track average live viewers for streams though?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5451322
Thats a tad silly anon, you may as well say if we count the vods deleted after copyright saga is that still true? and you know the answer.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444281
Actually true!

[Anonymous No.]

>>5443879
Thanks for proving views/subs mean literally nothing in terms of talent, ~peko!

[Anonymous No.]

>>5451104
>EA explicitly says streaming for profit is fine (including for business), as do many if not most indie game devs, but cover still wont let them
Again, I surely hope you are not on HoloEN legal team
https://help.ea.com/en/help/faq/how-to-request-permission-for-ea-games-content/

>EA does not object to fair uses of video footage or screenshots on video sharing sites, including YouTube channels that are commercialized, as long as the footage is a version of the game that we have released to the public.
>We do reserve the right to address any inappropriate use of EA content.
Short summary. "You can use it if it is "fair use" until we say it was inappropriate use". As for what "fair use" is, see >>5449081
> Additionally, because many EA games include content that is licensed from a third-party company or may otherwise have usage restrictions, paired with the large number of video-related questions we get from the community, we aren’t able to grant specific approvals or respond to all follow-up inquiries
Summary: "we don't even own every asset in our games so it is not even just our permission you need to ask"

Then they describe how to ask for permission (which is clearly necessary), including

>Your program/project description.
>Describe in detail how you will use the EA Materials in your event, publication, film or television program, video, website, or other.
>Give as much information as possible to help expedite your request. You can attach files to your email, including film or television scripts, images of how you intend to use the EA Materials with accompanying captions or text, and a description and duration of any audio elements.
>If you are requesting use of a specific asset or game footage clip, please identify or provide the footage via attachment or link.

Again, it would be terribly stupid to put your whole business existence on the mercy of the whims of a company deciding if your use was "fair enough" for them or if they better off striking you

What works for an indie doesn't for a company, process this information and deal with it

[Anonymous No.]

>>5451364
No, but for a long time live viewers wasn't factored into revenue. The obvious issue is there are no ads in a live stream! For some reason vtuber fans are hyperfocused on it but traditionally that's not what got you paid, and views is a decent proxy for it anyway while also avoiding time zone effects.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5451510
>Again, it would be terribly stupid to put your whole business existence on the mercy of the whims of a company deciding if your use was "fair enough" for them or if they better off striking you
Cover already is doing this. eternally cucked by the likes of Square Enix to the degree that Ame cant talk about how the hairstyle of the protag in Guardians game looks wack. she was live censored in front of her audience. if theyre already subject to that kind of control from a 3rd party, then the talent may as well have the ability to play more games

[Anonymous No.]

>>5451303
>I was responding to how dumb this comment is:
>people from outside Japan cannot exert the same pressure
You can prove me wrong anytime. Japan is embroiled in an absurd number of controversies involving China and Korea (for instance). Your point is proven if you show even a single instance of foreign internet screeching pressuring Japan into doing anything their local market doesn't want.
>I'll wait

>>5451358
>If this were true then there would be more freedom when it comes to indie devs and perms that are blanket approved by their devs beforehand
Yeah, right, like what happened to Pewds and that indie dev

>“I am sick of this child getting more and more chances to make money off of what we make,” Vanaman wrote on Twitter.
> Vanaman also urged other developers to do the same, stating that he would “be reaching out to folks much larger than us to cut him off from the content that has made him a millionaire.”

Good idea!
>Gura makes a joke about the size of the nose and the funny hat of some villager in Minecraft
>In response some indie dev band together and 3 strike her for the glory of Israel because of the clear antisemitism

What works for indies do not work for companies, anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5451697
>Cover already is doing this. eternally cucked by the fact they can only use other people property with their consent and, likewise, only Cover can authorize or deny authorization for others to use their property
Without that type of legislation some anime could not only use the likeness of Pekora but simply take the bunny, the name, the verbal ticks and make a whole episode around her and Cover could get bent.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5451303
>people from outside Japan cannot exert the same pressure
if they the cash cow and the main market they can.
But
Hypothetically.
assuming Gura "Hypothetically" in the mid top earner on SC and merch.
Gura spitting "Winnie The Pooh" Booooo. free Hong Kong!!
the Chinese goes full rabies.
Cover reprimands Gura about a year or so.
the EN and huge amounts of non JP fans go full rage....well a quite huge Japan lolicon also goes into the fry.
Cover can simply apologize>tanked EN completly>focus on Japan only.
Huge blows? absolutely
bad reps on the "International" side? definitely.
and yet they will avoid being marked by really ferocious unwanted problems in the near future while building back their images.
This kind of case also happens often in the Entertainment world relations between China-South Korea-Japan-The World.
there's plenty case some Japanese celebs pull some "Dai Nippon's" stunts stupidity and get shacked by their agency and still those agency can continue to survived even without the Chinese market.
the point is Japan market alone is adequate to make a company get big if done right.
the real problems is how to make sure that the home boy citizens doesn't see you as the trouble maker brats that want to pick a fight in any chance they get.
unless Cover want to go full Sony PlayStation then they have to like it or not appease the centuries old traditions of keep your head low even when facing an overseas assholes.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5451705
perms dont change that outcome anon. they can do that anyway, if gura was accused of antisemitism and enix said boot her or we'll strike your videos, the outcome is the same.
>>5451810
South Park has entire episodes around Micky Mouse, name and ticks and all. slanderous episodes at that. parody extends far

[Anonymous No.]

>>5451943
in your hypothetical that has Cover retreating into its own market, youve not taken into account that the international money will not just withdraw, but migrate to Cover's competition. those consequences extend much further

[Anonymous No.]

>>5452203
>parody extends far
Yes but does it extends far enough to japan to protect a japanese company in court from being sued by another japanese company?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5452203
>perms dont change that outcome anon
Yes they do. Permissions as Cover request them are in the form of a signed contract. The most Square Enix could do would be revoke the contract going forward but they wouldn’t be able to retroactively retract their consent and strike the videos and get her channel destroyed.

[Anonymous No.]

at this point i think Gura is using bots, their live views don't match the subs.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5452388
this is why the entire discussion up to that point was why Cover hasnt installed a CoverUS to take advantage of a preferable situation for their international streamers

[Anonymous No.]

>>5452527
>why Cover hasnt installed a CoverUS
Cover is not South Park, they don’t do anything at all covered by fair use. It’s not educational, it is for profit, it is not parody

[Anonymous No.]

>>5452510
those would come with clauses that lay out conditions that would allow them to retroactively pull perms due to conduct of the talents, else companies like Enix could be saddling themselves with an association of a potential controversy forever

[Anonymous No.]

>>5452831
It never happened to my knowledge and these permission are being signed for a long time

[Anonymous No.]

>>5446935
The freeze around 426,000k views right. How long did it last?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5451103
Valkyrae is on youtube

[Anonymous No.]

>>5452722
I was specifically addressing anons assertion about someone using pekora's image under the lens of content creation in the states. If, for example, AsacocoUS wanted to use Snickers in its skits for parody, it would fly

[Anonymous No.]

>>5452327
yes but my hypothesis still stand.
there's plenty case of this if compared with some of the Japanese Branding.

I can go full details on it since I've wrote a report papers in 2010 about what Japanese products that goes well in the International Market but make very low profits domestic and vice versa.
but I don't think you willing to read a 100+page of juxtapositions essay in non English language.
and I don't want to doxx myself in the most hostile place in the interwebz.

basically.
Japanese Businessman hold the tight Principe to keep their closest customer as close as possible to maintain their long lasting trust on the brands aka their home boys.
International Market is the secondary priorities after domestic and treated as the Plan B if the Int. goes bust...i.e SEGA...well their plan B also goes bust ..lul.

plus the believe to solidify their own foot in the home ground so nothing can shake them is prevalent in any of their typical business mind sets even to the one that seemingly "modern" and "advanced" such as start up tech.

realistically Vtuber business isn't really set their foot firmly in Japan it's still on post hatch phase. Including and especially Holo. until they at least can convinced the vast majorities of Japan business and entrepreneur caste of the society that they aren't some mid summer wet dream of the young peoples of Japan and will definitely here to stay like their parent the Otaku's Industry then no one will risks all just to appease their foreign customer..unless in Holo case it will costs them a severe scolding by their own Gov. because someone in their rooster or policy can cause a diplomatic rift to the region that already in the brink of literal mass slaughter.
until Vtuber really on par at least with Doujinshi level of Industry, their foundations isn't actually firm enough.

tl;dr
Japan doesn't have full dedicated NAVY SEAL and silo's of Nukes to shield some jabroski that taunting bunch of angry peoples that have the capabilities to leveled their major cities in days.
I doubt any US.Senate willing to go full Iraq invasions for some Anime girls.......although that will be funny.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5453079
>someone using pekora's image under the lens of content creation in the states
It’s a weird tangent because it explicitly needs to be both parody and in the US. It has nothing to do with the subject or Hololive except the choice of subject.

The subject of Pekora started in the context of, without copyright laws, Cover wouldn’t be able to prevent companies from using her image for profit and not as parody

[Anonymous No.]

>>5450459
They didn't suspend Mori with an official apology over the Atlus begging stream, which is what would've happened to any holoJP that pulled such a stunt and attracted negative Japanese attention. They're clearly aware that they can't use the same practices with EN. If anyone is trying to push their attitude onto hololive as a whole, it's the EN fans, not management.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5453196
>>5453196
and really, your hypothesis is solid as Hololive currently stands. retention of core customer base is the much more valuable than that of an emerging market like vtubers are globally. and while vtubing could still end up being a passing fad in japan, it is at least more tested than elsewhere. That being said, the longer the other branches entrench themselves and see success, the more Cover will have to change to suit their needs; really we need another JP and EN gen to actually see what the state of things is at

[Anonymous No.]

>>5453522
thats actually a good point, the atlus begging stream is good examples of different management styles. and youre right, EN fans are the ones pushing that kind of thing, they dont take well to a ton of idol culture practices and dont like some of the limitations imposed on the talents that they see as unnecessary (for better or worse)

[Anonymous No.]

>>5452965
Somewhere around 3.5 and 4 hours.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5452527
They essentially had a office in china but all the chinks there betrayed them. So they probably thought it's best to keep their workers in japan where they can monitor them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442454
If they did that none would even be close. Especially Valkyrae

[Anonymous No.]

>>5453196
I don't get why anons don't understand this.

All they need to do is take a look at how Cover doesn't give a flying fuck about helping overseas fans get merch easily. They all still use Geekjack or whatever website that charges insane amounts for shipping costs. If they cared, it wouldn't be that hard to set up proper international logistics.

Or look at how other Japanese companies care significantly less about the international market. All the anime/manga publishers barely care to make their products available overseas.

Their mindsets is to forgo the largest amount of profits possible in exchange for lowered risk. They aren't the Silicon Valley where shitloads of money is pumped in to fancy projects that fizzle out into nothing. They're trying to build a whole new industry.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5454019
This is one area where I really respect Calli. She's pulling the Japs out of their ingrained ways since she doesn't give a shit about how being managed like the JP Holomems are.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5454575
No, anon. The Japanese hold a double standard for foreigners when it comes to blunders. Most would simply show their distaste and then look over it by saying "they don't understand oir ways" and "there is no salt".

[Anonymous No.]

>>5452527
I don't think the same narratives on how Cover strangles their talents creativity to appease some peoples will never happens if Cover have US based branch though.

The same case will definitely happens in matter of months..I'm being generous.
all full EN Holo talent must follow and respect all the current "Code of Conducts" of the American society if they don't want to have a backlash so nasty that can rivaled or more to what happens now.
Do I have to utter it?
fine
SJW
there.
in the same manner all pro Coco fans that ranting now will be repeated.
and instead of Zhang's and Chinks insults thrown it will be "Libtards" and "DemsCommie"
same song and tunes.

and we will be here again.
instead arguing how and why Cover behaves because some ancient traditions.
we will be witnessing /vt/ is actually /pol/ displayed blatantly if not already are.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5454490
>it wouldn't be that hard to set up proper international logistics.
I agree with most of what you said but this. Believe me, it’s not easy if you want to turn a profit.
I deal in an adjacent area. Sometimes you need 6, 8 far away customers to offset one local

[Anonymous No.]

>>5454490
>They all still use Geekjack or whatever website that charges insane amounts for shipping costs.
umm actually..
I mean there's this thing called "Connections" in any East Asia countries that can be said as the Legalized Monopolized Syndicates.
..........
yes FFS YAKUZA kind of nasty attitude by the Japanese old fat greedy pervert businessman.
there's some "speculations" that most if not all non "Major" export designated products from Japan is handled by one and single Investor group.
and they basically the worst kind peoples that you have to dealt with.
you can't go find another alternative to handles your products shipments overseas Legally without using one of their affiliates.
there's actually some alternative companies but having the risks some big honcho in the Trade ministry glares at you because you don't do business with their Karaoke partner isn't worth it to save some pennies.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5454575
Any JP holo that tried to do a blatant begging stream even implying that her fans might pressure Atlus would cause a backlash so bad Cover would be performing a dogeza and putting out more apologies for not "educating their talents better". Mori gets the gaijin pass, they won't. You're delusional if you think she's singlehandedly changing Japanese culture in any way.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5454871
if you dont think the EN girls arent already subject to the social morays of SJWs youre being naïve. theyre not parroting that line of thinking however, theyre just avoiding it completely (as any professional would do if they want to appeal to as large an audience as possible)
>>5454490
if metric trends continue as they are now, they will care one day, when the negligence of doing so will cost them. International leverage isnt large enough now, but it could easily be by next year if EN2 does a repeat performance or if ES1 does well (even more so if they outperform JP6)

[Anonymous No.]

>>5455428
I really need Yagoo naked Dogeza meme

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442640
I'm pretty sure everone on this board has seen this, link some other shit we are supposed to be impressed by

[Anonymous No.]

>>5455300
yeah people forget Japan is a incestuous kleptocracy and only has a surface coating of capitalist freedom on the front door.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5454575
lol

[Anonymous No.]

>>5455483
>if you dont think the EN girls arent already subject to the social morays of SJWs youre being naïve.
Well like I've said before, the time when CoverUS exists. the clouting of "Orange Chicken Sucks" or "Bland and talent less mori" will just become "Libcuck chicken" kind of baits.
see? no differences, it's become openly bold.
not that it matters though.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5454575
>She's pulling the Japs out of their ingrained ways since she doesn't give a shit about how being managed like the JP Holomems are.
This, but Coco during her “gaijin pass” honeymoon.
>everybody think they can beat the house
SPOILER: they can’t
>pic unrelated but I smell some leafs in this thread

[Anonymous No.]

>>5455213
Yeah people are way underestimating this factor. The language barrier alone, dealing with foreign production and distribution, foreign legal structures, taxes, import duties, customs, customer support, it all eats into margins. A few percent here and there can add up to the point where it just doesn't make sense in the end.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5456132
I was looking at Cover's hiring page for their Alternative project and they are trying to hire a full international branch including in office translators.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5456132
some chad really should play those fat rat Japanese tricks for ourselves.
band together huge numbers of gaijin's that on the same line with us then set them on the missions to purchase any stuffs that we listed and bid then hand carried it to a "neutral" place where the all the shipments related issues isn't a clusterfuck of legal shady schemes.
profits.
the problems is to find the pne that have the luxury to go in and out Japan frequently and also a really the can be trusted bro's there.
some gaijin's can be a total ass hat jerk taking advance.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5456680
>some chad really should play those fat rat Japanese tricks for ourselves.
>band together huge numbers of gaijin's that on the same line with us then set them on the missions to purchase any stuffs that we listed and bid then hand carried it to a "neutral" place where the all the shipments related issues isn't a clusterfuck of legal shady schemes.
WOW! You got a good train of thought going there anon!
Next you’ll suggest to, instead of doing it as individuals that said gaijins should incorporate so they can recover the VAT and charge the trip expenses to Japan as as business expenses.
Maybe instead of lots of gaijin in a line they should send only one, let’s even give him a fancy titles
> company representative
and fit him with some business cards.
To speed things up this “company representative” could even contact Cover directly and make a commitment for some set quantity and even get a volume discount!

[Anonymous No.]

>>5452521

[Anonymous No.]

>>5454019
its an example of gaijin pass anon.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5454306
Valkyrae - avg viewers = 22k
Pekora - avg viewers = 23k
from playboard

[Anonymous No.]

How many subscribers do you think hololive has without overlap? It seems like most people are subbed to at least 2 or more of them.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442845
tbf if you look at avg viewers sykkuno gets usually around 35/50k while gura is usually at 10/20k

[Anonymous No.]

>>5451055
>The event caused the national government of Japan to have to send a fucking delegation to China

Source for this? Closest I've heard to government involvement in Japan is that they used it for one of their slides in a meeting on china risks.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442138
>yeah the girls dont want any of that!
>after being forced to stop by cover
retard

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442845
>people acted like he was way bigger than her.

Sykkuno mentioned Gura before she hit 1 mil though. So he was indeed way bigger than her at the time.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5456357
Translation pays well because it’s really hard to do well and quickly. Hololive content also has a lot of humor pop culture and meme references which can be tough to translate. I think of all the Holos only Kiara for example has the language skills to do it. People with that level of fluency do not come cheap.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5465658
I was baffled when I saw they only have 4 million in reported capital. Given their huge 2020 growth I totally understand them leashing their talents in preparation of a big investor show soon and their hiring page is massive too so they are probably collecting resumes so they can go right when they get the funds.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5454871
I see you posting a lot. Always the same broken English and topic. A less retarded ES would have learned to write properly by now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5446308
Never liked Fubuki but for some reason her voice make me so horny.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5442845
They aren't even remotely close. Look at their live viewers. No on watches twitch vods. I wouldn't be surprised if Sykkuno is making 10x what Gura is given how absurd his female simps are.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5449678
Isn't it retarded that you can get all three strikes at once?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444649
I was shocked at how "low" the viewcount was after it was hyped so much here and elsewhere. I guess it really is true that most of her subs are just johnny come latelies that see her viral clips, but never watch streams.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447770
You completely misunderstood his point. Sure, Gura is huge compared to other vtubers or holomems, but she is an any compared to actual big youtubers.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5463605
She gets more views on VODs and the interactions/comments are more. It’s not comparable

[Anonymous No.]

>>5466337
Gura has basically the same live viewer/video view profile as Tyler1

[Anonymous No.]

>>5466480
>tyler1
>big youtuber
Are you even responding to the right comment?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5465751
>I saw they only have 4 million in reported capital

The average Holo probably made $1 million total. There's about 30 of them, so $30 million. Assuming Cover takes 30%, they'll have revenues in the $10 million range. Now subtract expenses and $4 million in capital seems perfectly normal.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5466239
So Gura has more views and subs in the last month but he’s making 10 times as much? Got any evidence to back that up? I could easily believe he makes more but Gura has a minimum of 17000 members and 40K superchats in the last month which implies at least 125k in revenue before RPM sponsorships and merch (probably much much more) Or 40K/month after estimated cuts. For around 500k a year bare minimum. You think Sykuno is making 5-10 million a year? Really? Miko steams on twitch on occasion and has roughly similar numbers. Is there some reason she’s leaving 90% of her income on the table?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5464728
If Gura is any indication? Hololive's global cap is probably close to 500k.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5466685
Crap, I was phone posting and shut the KB by accident and posted my message incomplete.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5466810
>again
FUCK

I meant to post about the 7~13% sub ratio which would put Hololive at around 5 million unique viewers accross all channels.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5447575
Want to see suisei doing an unarchive karaoke

[Anonymous No.]

>>5466680
Sykkuno has around 26k subs, which is the twitch equivalent of memberships. Plus he has a youtube channel with decent subscribers and mediocre views. The biggest thing though is the sheer amount of time twitch streamers actually spend streaming. This week Sykkuno streamed ~40 hours to an average 34k viewers. In comparison Gura streamed 19 hours to 22k viewers average AND THIS IS INCLUDING BIRTHDAY STREAMS. With constant ads on twitch live streams + personal sponerships Sykkuno is very easily pulling 7 figures. 5 to 10 million is obviously high, but 2 - 3 million would be very normal. Folks like xQc and Adin Ross are likely in the 20m+ range.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5467049

Also, the mood at Cover right now very much seems "everybody has to stream less since having talents having to suddenly take long breaks thanks to trying to kill themselves playing Apex the month before is an issue".

So, trying to push for more is not what Cover is doing now.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5467049
Sykkuno is a fucking pleb compared to the likes of XQC or Dream who make a shitload more, you're comparing bottom feeders to holos.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5467578
I don't know bout the current situations in the streaming game circle.
is there's someone in the Vtuber scene that stream Gran Tourismo or PES?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5468880
>Gran Tourismo

Judging based on how she reacted in E3, Gura if she can get perms for it.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5458568
>instead of doing it as individuals that said gaijins should incorporate so they can recover the VAT and charge the trip expenses to Japan as as business expenses.
well actually "we" already done that back in the 2004-2005 "smuggling" plenty rare Eroge, IV and AV from Japan relayed either to Taiwan or Singapore first.
> company representative
this was actually the reasons the "bond" fell through. some greedy fat ass Aussies exchange student convinced us to go "legal" and long story short. he take all the majorities of the share and kick one at the time peoples in the group just to keep all the profits for himself and his GF while in the same time hiking the prices. and we back to the square one.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5469092
online racing stream should gain attentions especially GT franchise.
If just one of the talents willing to make something like suggestions box for game try out of the week it should be nice start for them to found the ones that they perhaps will love doing.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5452906
Didn't this happen with Muse Dash?

[Anonymous No.]

>>5444618
How long ago? I find it hard to believe you wouldn’t have seen antichama doing his usual bullshit if that were 100% true. Most Australia discussion is clearly in the past tense, except one or two morons who think she’s attending university overseas.

[Anonymous No.]

>>5470193
They privated the Muse Dash videos to avoid attracting more trouble but privated videos can still get striked. That's why they need those signed permissions, so that they can dispute it with YouTube or turn it into a legal case if those copystrikes ever come. The issue here isn't with videos being hidden but with getting hololive accounts perma-banned because of retroactive bullshit. That's what Cover needs to defend themselves from, it's quite literally a threat to their existence.